Well, it's finally predator stocking day in SE Texas for me. My pond renovation and expansion was completed 10 months ago today. I have (to my knowledge) only a forage base in my mud hole. CNBG, RES, FHM, Grass Shrimp, Gambusia minnows (thanks Pat W.), and Golden Shiners. I picked up my Camelot Bell LMB YOY at Overton's this morning along with some feed. As always, Todd packaged them up nicely to ride in the backseat of my pickup. I get my jon boat in the water and commence to acclimating the young predators to the water temperature (in the open bag) alongside the boat. A school of curious Gambusia Minnows comes swimming up to the bag of LMB. As I'm adding pond water to the bag of fishery water, a CB Bass swims out and completely knocks a young Gambusia minnow right out of the water, then swims off. I thought, guess what guys, "there's a new sheriff in town"...in the meantime as the acclimating continues, the rest of the CB Bass all swim out into the pond to the shallow end near the feeder. I paddle across the pond and secure the boat and notice the frenzy going on underneath the feeder, in the cedar branch structure pile. There are slaps on the surface of the water and little gambusia's and FHM young flying all over the place. Understand, the forage in my pond have never seen any predators. Their world changed today. Hard to believe these little guys (see below) can have that much attitude. Can't wait until they get several pounds....it ought to be interesting.

Very cool Charlie! I see a lot of fun in yer future!!

Charlie, congratulations on the Camelot Bell LMB!
You guys with brand new ponds with initial stocking of CB LMB have a great opportumity to maintain pure genetics and great trophy potential.

I like to think the "mottled pattern" that I see on the back is a distictive CB ID marker?
George

Mr. George,
Thank you, and yes sir....I'd have to agree!

Congrats stickem, guess they were hungry from the trip. How many did you stock?

Thanks SB, I stocked 33) as my pond is a little over a 1/2 acre. I may lose one or two in the process, as they may become victim of nature...or whatever. I will also be stocking other preds a little later this summer, but the blue cats are just fry right now, the available Channel Cats are too large for my present system, and I hope to get a few HSB this fall...as you know, we can't have the predators eating the other predators.

Yes, I guess the CB Bass were hungry or just p*ssed from the ride I took them on. It looked like a street fight under the feeder once they schooled up.

Nice job Charlie, can't wait to see how this plays out

It's been a little over 2 weeks since I introduced the CB LMB to my pond. I introduced 20) more this past weekend. I used to see li'l black clouds of FHM and Gambusia fry (1/4 - 3/4") schooling around the shallows. Don't see anything but medium and adult size now...I can only assume that the CB LMB have taken their toll on the smaller size forage. I'm sure as the bass get bigger, the larger sizes will disappear as well.

Thanks for the update Charlie. You will be catching 5 pounders before ya know it! I wish somebody would come out with a Northern strain of Bells.

Charles, as u know I also added the CBLMB fingerlings and added more than I thought we would, but the recommendation to add additional fingerlings was due to the possibility of the RES and CNBG eating some of them, so is that why u added more CBLMB to the mix? Now I worry that my forage are eating my babies

Tracy

Heck TRACY
A 2" Camelot bass can whoop a perch! They be fine,.

Tracy,

I added extra CB LMB in the event that I would lose some to predation since I found I have had a GSF spawn last fall, but if I am overpopulated, there's a bigger predator they need to worry about....me! I built my pond to fish...everything else is secondary...do I want a balanced population, yes....if it gets out of whack, I think I have enough pond pros at my disposal to manage it correctly...

Charlie

From 2 1/4" long to 10 3/4" long just shy of 4 months...they are destroying the FHM, Gambusia, and Golden Shiner forage base...as well as the GSF and BG YOY....but, I guess that is their job.

Brutal!!!

Good looking fish... That's the way it's supposed to be!

Holy moly!

Congrats that fish is getting mighty plump

As aggressive as Bruce!!!

Charlie, thanks for sharing the picture of your Overton's CBLMB. I have yet to catch one @ my place, so I'm hoping mine are growing at or near the same pace as yours.

Tracy

Very nice growth stickem'.

If you get a chance, could you get a picture of the top of a CBLMB head? I haven't been able to find a good pic of the coloring.

Thanks, Al

The biggest trick to keeping these great bass growing will be to keep enough of the proper sized forage available. They could easily run out of food and 'hit the wall' for growth. Be watchful.

Al,
Thanks, will do on the next one that I catch...I didn't think to specifically take a pic of the turquoise spot on the head until after I released the fish.
Charlie

Bill,
Thanks, I have a strong forage base at the moment. Remaining FHM, Gambusia, and Golden Shiners......The BG continue to spawn as well as the GSF & Dollar Sunfish (uninvited guests). I'm glad the LMB are continuing to grow. I was originally concerned about their original stocking size (2 1/4" lg). I hope the forage base will be adequate as they continue to make gains.
Charlie

Congrats Charlie! That is a plump fish for sure.

Bill Cody gives great advise. These need optimum conditions to grow to their potential. Hope you can keep things headed in the right direction going forward.

Thanks for posting.

Thanks, all I've been doing is keeping an eye on the water quality and the forage base fed...the LMB have been taking care of the rest.

Guys, I can't tell you how excited I am for you all and your Overton's LMB. Introducing mine to my big puddle is my main pond priority right now, but it can be difficult on a larger 16 year old pond. My Florida's genetics have not been refreshed, or even stocked in 14 years. You guys are getting a rare opportunity to start fresh with both the forage and fish to really have great long term ponds.

I'll have to fin clip mine when they're added, so I'll always know the original stockers. Forage will control everything from that point on. So as with any other LMB pond, I'll cull my legacy LMB aggressively. Them new babies gotta eat.

Nice work and great condition on the CB LMB. Be sure to keep plenty of forage 1/4 to 1/2 the original stockers' size (length).

I stocked Lonestar Legacy LMB from Overton's on 5/29/15 at 2 1/4" lg. I caught the first one on 9/25/15 at 10 3/4" lg. I recently started fishing for them again. Yesterday, I caught the one below at 15 1/2" just under 2 lbs. They are coming along slowly, but they are coming along. I've been catching them in the 13 1/2" - 15 1/2" range so far. They appear to be healthy. The water has recently cleared up due to the 20" of rain we had in August and I have a nice phytoplankton bloom going. Hopefully, that will initiate a growth spurt as the water was fairly turbid in the past.

Nice Charlie, save me a few offspring next spring!

You got it, my friend...

Do you think they have diminished the forage base or the forage isn't the appropriate size to cause the slowed growth.

SB,
I'm not 100% sure. I have noticed that I don't catch as many 3-5" BG and GSF as I used to. That fact, and maybe the turbidity of the pond in the past year has slowed down their growth. LMB are predominately sight feeders. However, I do have a fair amount of structure (Christmas Trees and other) for the forage fish to hide. I do see a fair amount of gambusia in the shallows (adult size and smaller). The LSL LMB have just started biting recently. It was a rare event to catch one in the past on artificial lures. I stopped (2) erosive washes from my aggressive watershed earlier this summer with larger stone. I'm thinking that and the ag lime I added earlier this year helped clear up some of the turbidity.

I agree low visibility will hinder the bass feeding for sure. From the picture you posted that bass should easily inhale 3-5" bluegills. I would think your bass would lose weight chasing Gams around the edges. Thought of adding a new forage fish to help the BG out? Maybe golden shiners or crayfish?

Charlie, I am glad to hear your are getting in some fishing (catching) and your water has cleared up, sounds like your feeling better after your hospital stay. Good for You

Tracy

SB,
I do have some GSH and crayfish in the pond from when I originally stocked in in 2014. Not sure if adding any more would add any value. I do believe that I'm going to have to start pulling out some fish though...my li'l pond is fish heavy, between what I stocked and what came in with the water originally.

Hey Tracy,
Thanks, yes I'm starting to feel like my old self again...just 45lbs lighter. How are your LSL LMB doing? Are you catching many? I think we stocked around the same time didn't we? What size are your "legs" approaching?

Charlie

Charlie, my lmb count was low last march when Overton's did a shock survey. At that time half of the LSL LMB were in the 150% rw. Not sure why low survival of the lmb fingerlings. Guessing cnbg feasted on them maybe because we did such a heavy stocking of cnbg and res. And I had no lmb spawn last spring or the yoy were eaten. Todd Overton located some additional LSL lmb in the 12 " range and they seamed to me to be in the low rw range but I was happy to get them. The lmb count remains low even after adding those additional fish and I think that is why the lmb are in the high rw range. There is a lot of forage in the pond for them to eat. Since that shock last march, I have fished for them only a couple of times and that was this past week. I do not want to create hook shy lmb. So, my fist time fishing, I hooked two but landed one, I did not weigh and measure but I can say I believe the LSL lmb was in the 150% range. I think it had been eating lead. In my conversations with Todd and with all I have read, I am on the right track for growing extra large lmb but the catch rates are low and would be expected in a pond like this. But the cnbg fishing is great and I have been latter stocking HSB for catching. Some of those are in the 16" or better range. And thanks for asking

I have a similar problem with my LSL LMB but just the opposite. My pond is 2 acres with an 8 feet average depth. I had a lot of turbidity (18 inches) the first part of the year and then the water cleared up to where now I have about 3.5 to 4 feet of visibility. I have a ton of CNBG in all size ranges and I started out stocking only 100 bass. The relative weight on the bass I caught last week (3) was 73% RW. I can see the bass feeding along the shoreline so what do you recommend to increase the RW of the bass? They have enough to eat so I am assuming that the water is not correct.

Do you have structure in the pond that the bass can use to ambush their meals?

Nice Job Stickem'!

Good to hear your pond has cleared some, and that you are still alive and well enough to be able to witness the progress !! Way to stay engaged and focused !!

Snakebite, I have a lot of different kind of structure. I have 25 Christmas trees, rock piles, tire reefs, pallets and artificial trees that I made. What I have noticed is that all the bass seem to get the BG in the 1-3 inch range. I can watch them from the bank or my dock stalk the BG and attack but they normally leave the bigger BG alone. The bass are in the 13-14 inch range so I would assume that they can eat bigger BG than that.

Smokey, I am no expert and I have asked a lot of questions here over the past two years and I have been raising some of the LSL lmb. I think you directed your question to Charlie but if you don't mind I will add my experience and maybe it might help. About half of my lmb are in the 150% rw and the other half are in the norm wt range. One thing I noticed is the mouth size on my lmb is not large and so I would look for 2 to 3" bg to feed them. My lmb are in the 13 to 15" size. If your lmb are undersized, it is because of lack of food for them. I would increase the bg population by introducing 4" and larger bg to the pond, looking for a bg spawn to help feed your lmb. My pond visibility is now in the 17" range and has been to the 14" range but with green water and not so much suspended clay but when it comes to lmb feeding I would think visibility is visibility, whether it is clay of heavy plankton growth. green water is what u want, and if your visibility is now 3 to 4 ' I would think you might want to consider getting a bloom started. Being in Texas, u still have some time left for a bloom. My bloom will last till Jan or later. Another suggestion would be to get some of the Tilapia now from Todd Overton, he is having a sale on them as we speak. Sorry for hijacking Charlie

TGW1, You are not hacking in at all. Your answer is much appreciated and insightful. There is definitely no shortage of CNBG in the 2-3 inch range. I originally stocked 1800 CNBG and 300 RES and I am showing beds all over my 3 feet of water. I am thinking that the water clarity might have a lot to do with the bass weight. I do feed the BG three times a day and they are still eating good. The BG are now getting to where they come to the feed and I can see hundreds of the 2-3 inch going to the feed from under my dock but they are also getting very skidish and grab a bite and head back to safety. I watched two bass the other day stalk some BG on the bank waiting for them to come out to deeper water but they evidently would see the bass and stay close to the shoreline.

I will try to fertilize and see if I can get a bloom started. I did have one back in June that lasted for a few weeks but then disappeared. I was planning on getting some Tilapia from Todd next spring but if you think they will last long enough before winter sets in I will give that a try. Thanks for your help.

Good article here on fertilizing. Also gives ideas for other ways to fertilize outside of buying it in the bag. I recall prior posts about fertilizing a pond to initiate a bloom had higher numbers recommended on the nitrogen, Phosphorous compared to the 8-8-2 recommended in this article.

Fish feed as a fertilizer is discussed (catfish feed in particular)

info on fertilizer

I have some left over milorganite (best known organic fertilizer, 6-2-0) to use up and may toss that in my pond although my water temps are probably too low for a bloom yet this fall. I assume milorganite is commonly available all over the US, but in case you are not familiar with it,it is made in WI from 'byproducts of wastewater' (poo) It is nice to use on just about anything as you can't very easily 'burn' anything.

Milorganite

My struggle is keeping the phosphates out of the pond.

Check the Milorganite for heavy metals. The problem with human waste products is the heavy metals that build up in the waste from cleaning supplies. Heavy metals are impossible to remove from most bio cycles.

Cheers Don.

Smokey, I would talk to Todd and see if he can get u small 3 to 4" Tp asap for your pond. He has always help me out if he could. If one can afford to add them at this time they will take pressure off the bg and as the water cools they will make for an easy meal for the lmb. A win win situation. Also talk to him about pond fertilizer, he keeps some in stock, it is high in Nitrogen.

I went to the pond yesterday afternoon and put in some fertilizer, in the water. The water has become clearer than ever so I am hoping I get a bloom started fairly quickly. I had a bag of pond fertilizer that I ordered online earlier in the year and put in the amount suggested on the bag. I will check with Todd and see what he has left. The first part of the year I was still getting clay particles from bank erosion so I had Todd bring me out some Gypsum and I put it in along with some crushed lime. Boy is it working now.

Check your water temps. Very hard to get a bloom when water is cool.

The water temperature in my pond is still in the upper 80's to lower 90's. In east Texas we have not really had enough cool weather to drastically affect the water temperature. This weeks forecast is calling for the daytime temp to be in the upper 80's.

Some crushed limestone or what we call latteral line rock about 2-3" in diameter from just above water line to down as far as you think you water level will ever drop will sure help with the shoreline erosion. Eventually grass and pond weeds will grow into it and you never know it is there.

bank erosion and rock lining
This is a thread on the subject.

I have finally solved my erosion problem by planting Bermuda grass everywhere including the banks. The grass has taken hold and looks great. Lately I haven't gotten any (or very little) suspended clay particles in the water after a rain event.