I feel like this is a newbie question, but today I discovered my small pond is home to a rather large turtle and a large snake.
Seeing as how I just stocked the pond, I don't want all of my little fish to become a buffet. Should I deal with these two fellas or just let them be and not worry about it.
I've never considered turtles a problem. To me, they are mostly the clean up crew when a fish is sick or dies. They are mostly vegetarians. A snapping turtle will take an occasional healthy fish but it is unusual.
I know nothing about snakes as predators of fish. I'm sure they are but doubt that they can effect the population balance. I did catch a huge brown water snake a couple of years ago in a large fish trap and I figure he was in there due to the fish that I had caught. I released it. I dang sure don't like getting them in a seine but it happens.
Both snakes and turtles will come and go in the pond. I don't worry about them.
FWIW I had a scuffle with a 3 to 4 foot long snake in central Indiana eating fish on our stringer. I pulled out the stringer and the snake got pretty aggressive. I don't know what kind of snake it was but I am not a fan of large water snakes. I would get rid of the water snake unless yer show what kind it is and know it's harmless.
Last week I had a run in with a 3' cotton mouth. He was summon on the board walkway to the pier. He didn't want to leave so he opened his mouth an showed his dental goods, I just poked him with my fishing pole to make him leave. And yes I would have blasted him if I wold have been packing
Alright, thanks guys. The turtle is more than welcome to stay, but I can't say the same for the snake.
It was about 3' in length and colored like a rattlesnake, but no rattle. I'm guessing it was a water moccasin, but can't be sure. Either way, I'm not taking any chances.
Was it in the water? Prob a water snake. Water moccasin will float when swimming, where a water snake just the head will be out. Moccasins are short and fat and almost black- nasty smelling also
Na, it was sunning up on the bank. Looked identical to this one.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7097/7049135693_2211718a7f.jpg
Cottonmouth are fat and short... Goggle them
That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?
That feller looks to be a subspecies of a water moccasin, note the pit under the eye
Not 109% sure
That pic I posted is a water moccasin, also known as a cottonmouth.
(Which I surprisingly just learned are one in the same...I always thought a cottonmouth was a version of rattlesnake.)
Here's one getting handled...although I don't know what in the world this guy was thinking picking it up like that after he shot it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwPh08S9RQ
Most cottonmouth Mocs are almost black except for the species you showed... Nasty fellows
Or, at least they are usually black in Texas.
I have found that very few water snakes are actually venomous. Cottonmouths are the only water snake I've found with an attitude. Most snakes just want to go somewhere else in a hurry.
Did not know cottonmouths and water moccasin where the same--and living outdoors most of the time I should have known, good info
I think this is what I had the scuffle with. Diamond back water snake.
Or, at least they are usually black in Texas.
I have found that very few water snakes are actually venomous. Cottonmouths are the only water snake I've found with an attitude. Most snakes just want to go somewhere else in a hurry.
Had one this weekend open mouth and all that- dangit no pistol with me at time
That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?
That is a copperhead, Bill.
Venomous but most healthy adults will recover without much effort. The very young, the very old, and the immune system compromised suffer most from copperhead bites.
I think this is what I had the scuffle with. Diamond back water snake.
Yup just a common water snake. These species will bite if provoked or strike out when attempting to flee if threatened. No venom, but a puncture would could cause an infection depending on the bacteria in the water snake's mouth. They will dine on fish, frogs, tadpoles, mice, etc.
That looks a lot like the snake I had the scuffle with. What kind is it?
That is a copperhead, Bill.
Venomous but most healthy adults will recover without much effort. The very young, the very old, and the immune system compromised suffer most from copperhead bites.
Look again bass lover that is a lesser seen cottonmouth that is brown and not blackish .
We have the diamond back water snakes in our ponds but they are more the brownish color like the water moccasin pictured. But can definitely tell by the head that ours is not poisonous. The poisonous snakes have that broad more diamond shaped head where the poison glands are. Non-poisonous heads more slender. At least that is the way it appears to me.
Saw one in our old pond last summer with a 4" or so bullhead in its mouth swimming out to deeper water. When I came along it was at the bank and I scared it, so it swam away, but was not going to give up its meal so was swimming on the surface with its catch. Have a half dozen 13" LMB in that pond now, so it better watch out or it will become the meal.
We have the diamond back water snakes in our ponds but they are more the brownish color like the water moccasin pictured. But can definitely tell by the head that ours is not poisonous. The poisonous snakes have that broad more diamond shaped head where the poison glands are. Non-poisonous heads more slender. At least that is the way it appears to me.
IIRC I read somewhere you can also tell by the pupils in their eyes. Nonpoisonous have round pupils and poisonous are verticel elliptical shape.
I dun plan to get close enough to get that good a look!
Bill D. The pic you posted is a dead ringer for the one I walked up on. I won't be getting close enough to check its pupils either. Ha. Hopefully we'll cross paths again this weekend when I'm armed.
I read somewhere those guys can get 10 to 12 feet long down South!
If you have a pond around here you will have snakes. Water Moccasins are our only poisonous snake and pretty common. The small pond is only 30 feet from our front door and I spent a lot of time out there mowing, feeding fish, or just loafing. I would occasionally see a snake and killed them because we have small grandkids that play out front and didn't want them bit by any snakes in the grass. When the pond got low last year as I was draining it, I killed 3 water moccasins, 2 brown water snakes, and a red snake of some sort. I had no idea the moccasins were there. I only shoot moccasins in the pond across the road.
I hate the big black western Moc. And Pat I need a shotgun when shooting @ one. Last time I cam across a big one, it took me sixteen shots with my pistol before I hit him @ 15' away. I am a little shaky when it comes to the Mocs. There is really big one that hangs down by the bayou and every time I see him, I am unarmed but he will slither off into the brush as I get off the tractor or Polaris, he knows I am after him
Tracy
Tracy, I also can't do much with a pistol. I have a sawed off, single shot, shotgun that rides pretty well in the basket of my 4 wheeler.
Mike that is a good idea. I will have to start looking for a cheep one @ the next gun show, so I can cut the barrel down for the Polaris. I don't like putting my better guns in the guns cases that came with my side by side.
Tracy
Bill D, after watching those, I had shiver's go down my back. Like Mr Dave, I will have a stagecoach type shot gun real soon. And since u r looking @ guns, maybe one is in your future also.
Tracy
I still got my old single shot 410. Thinking it will be a perfect snake gun!
Dave ,sorry I called u Mike a moment ago, I am just getting old
and yep that 410 will make a good snake charmer Bill. I need an old one I can beat around but will still pop a cap when I need it to
Tracy
I still got my old single shot 410. Thinking it will be a perfect snake gun!
Good choice. I've been a 410 fan since I got my first one as a kid. I bought a Taurus Judge a couple years ago just to carry around the place because it's less cumbersome to carry than a shotgun.
The 410 is also a good gun to let the kids how to shoot
The 410 is also a good gun to let the kids how to shoot
+1 to that. It was my first gun. My dad brought it home all beat up and rusty. I tore it down, refinished the stock and my neighbor hot blued the barrel for me. Turned out real nice. IMO opinion, a kid's first gun should be a single shot. Teaches you right away the importance of taking time to get a good aim when you only get one shot at something.
[quote=Mike Otto]Teaches you right away the importance of taking time to get a good aim when you only get one shot at something.
Right on. That's what I love about blackpowder hunting.
Where are you located? I keep turtles as pets and would love to come catch the turtle out of your pond.
I also love BlK Powder hunting. It's the only way I hunt using a riffle anymore. I gave up deer hunting for 20 yr's until was introduced to Bow hunting and Blk Powder hunting.
Tracy
I hate cleaning muzzle-loaders. I only use mine to extend the season. They are accurate and I would be good with only single-shot weapons being legal for deer hunting, or only bows (not cross-bows). Kids are not the only ones that would benefit. I love my M77 44-mag all-weather Rugar bolt action though. With LeveRevolution ammo, it is good to go out to 125 yards. It just feels good in my hands, and I shoot it pretty well.
Rah
For years I shot a Contender in .44 mag w/14" barrel, very accurate indead good for pigs up close and personal
Pat
95% of the time around our area if you see a snake in the water it's some subspecies of the common water snake...completely non-venomous.
As mentioned before there are several ways to differentiate a Water Moccasin from a common water snake - most easily identified attribute is the head shape. Common water snakes have no to a very slight head profile, where a water moccasin has a clearly spade and/or diamond profiled head shape. There are other identifying marks - see here:
http://ufwildlife.ifas.ufl.edu/water_moccasin_watersnake_comparison.shtmlVery beneficial read there if you're concerned. In the 30 years I've been around ponds in central and southern IL I've had a snake other than a common water snake or a garter snake show up twice.
And that'd be 2 times out of several hundred individual snakes.
Watter moccasins also float when swimming across the pond. The entire body is on top.
They are the only water snake that I find to be really aggressive. Maybe the only snake of any kind that I find aggressive. Well, an occasional copperhead can get narrow minded.
I have a reasonable amount of rattle snakes. For the most part, they seem to just want to be left alone.
If you're considering cutting down a shotgun's barrel length, check with you local authorities. Some jurisdictions have laws prohibiting this. If the gun won't ever goo off your property, you may not be too concerned with it. Just something to be aware of.
My high school biology teacher was also a pretty renowned herpetologist, and he insisted that water moccasins could not survive an Illinois winter. I believe him. There is, however, a small population in extreme southern IL. We do have rattlesnakes, and they aren't afraid of water. I once observed a magnificent timber rattler swimming across a cove in Kincaid Lake. He was 6 ft long, as thick as a beer can, and had at least 17 rattles on his tail. There are also massasaugas around the Carlyle Lake area. They have signs up about them, and an idiot was bitten by one a few years ago while playing w/one. I respect, admire, and encourage all snakes on my property, but I am prejudiced toward water snakes. They are fish-eating machines.
This should take care of those outlaw snakes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgnwO0o2ClQ
Kinkaid also has copperheads and cotton mouths.
I ran face to face with a medium sized cotton mouth at the spillway years ago, was going to net some minnows out of the pools there to go fishing but before I got started I saw a water snake in the pool.
I said to myself 'self that looks like a real cotton mouth'
Little snakey must have heard me because at that moment he opened his mouth and a pair of fangs dropped down.
Needless to say I left the minnows for him and called my dog away, and just fished with lures that day.
Had plenty of copperheads by the house south of murphysboro, but all the water snakes I saw there were non-venomous.
Never did have the pleasure of seeing a rattle snake there.
Never heard of massasaugas, only thought we had 3 types of venomous snakes in IL.
My high school biology teacher was also a pretty renowned herpetologist, and he insisted that water moccasins could not survive an Illinois winter. I believe him. There is, however, a small population in extreme southern IL. We do have rattlesnakes, and they aren't afraid of water. I once observed a magnificent timber rattler swimming across a cove in Kincaid Lake. He was 6 ft long, as thick as a beer can, and had at least 17 rattles on his tail. There are also massasaugas around the Carlyle Lake area. They have signs up about them, and an idiot was bitten by one a few years ago while playing w/one. I respect, admire, and encourage all snakes on my property, but I am prejudiced toward water snakes. They are fish-eating machines.
Cotton mouths do survive here and get quite large. Pretty easy to identify once you learn what they look like. Generally not too long but big around for their length. Head features are unique and the white inside the mouth is a dead giveaway.
Goodnight that .454 casual did some damage to that watermelon!
Well, Ive been back to the farm twice in the past week and no snake. Maybe he slithered on to greener pastures.
I treat all snakes the same .... I do not discriminate. I introduce all of them to my short barrel .410 loaded with #6 shot. I can't honestly say I have any idea what types of snakes they are ... just that they are dead when I finish.
Poisonous snakes are very rare here. I leave snakes alone as they provide a useful pest-control service, and they are cool. I do understand that a phobia of snakes is common.
By the way guys, when I was in China I ate snake a few times. If prepared right it was dang GOOD! I have heard rattle snake is good but have never tried it.
Bill
I have eaten timber rattler and it ain't bad! 6-1/2' one
The only problem is picking the meat out of the small areas between the bones with a toothpick. But, it's not bad eating.
In Sweetwater Texas they hold a rattlesnake roundup. I think it was put together yr's ago to reduce the population. They serve rattlesnake dinners and it's pretty good fried up. A little chewy. but I would eat it again.
Tracy
This is what I have seen with water moccasins here in Texas. They swim with most of their body above the surface of the water. Short, thick body and blunt tail. Triangular head.
I have at least one of those (pictured above) on my place and maybe two of them. I was walking back from bow hunting when I almost stepped on him. If it would have been a little darker that evening I am not sure what would have happened. I let him pass as I did not want to ruin the broadhead I was using because I was not sure I would hit him @ that close range due to the bow sights. And what I am calling the possibility of a second one was located at least 1,000yds away. Both are in a Bayou bottom. I never seam to have the right weapon with me when I walk up on these. And I hate the western moc's.
Tracy
Nasty critters for sure Tracy. I would just as soon not have an encounter with any of them!
I've got at least one of these in my pond. He was about 3ft long and 1-2 inches wide. He had eaten something recently as he had a big bulge 1/2 way through.
Im in mid TN for anyone keeping track.
Yeah the Moc's will flat come after you! Last year my mom and I got stuck on the end of our dock with one on the walkway it came out from under the boat! It started to go away from us but I had a 6 foot paddle in my hand and wanted it dead! So I thought I would just go after it! haha, yeah right! I started walking after that thing with paddle in air and it flat turned around and starting coming after me!!! Them things have no fear! We finally had to let it go or it might have pushed us right into the pond and ate us!!
Dang snakes!
RC