I tried to find a thread on Pond Boss regarding the article that recently appeared in BassMaster Magazine regarding Gary Schwarz's of La Perla Ranch in south Texas attempt to grow a Texas State or World Record bass and could not find one. Here is the link to the article. I would be curious to get some opinions; especially thoughts about Prawns and the comment found on page 3.



http://www.bassmaster.com/tips/building-world-record-bass

Steve, I read that article the other night. The prawns deal interests me, and as you know, they're readily available close to DFW. The only issue for me is the preferred water temp. IIRC, it's in the same range as tilapia, so they'd need to be seasonal in North East TX also.

I'll pass on any comments about F1 vs pure Florida debate. Schwarz himself said the pure Floridas with the overabundance of forage he had were almost uncatchable. That might just be the owner wanting higher catch rates. Who knows?

Very interesting read though.

I'd be interested to see if adding Rainbow Trout to the mix during the cooler months would help. Look at some of the lakes in So. Cal. - Dixon, etc.

I find that very interesting. However, if I were to bet money, I would put it on the next record LMB in the US being from one of those California lakes, and getting fat eating rainbow trout.

California has had several over 20 lbs, more than any other state.

If one had deep pockets, the things they could do...

Northern Bluegill are cooler hehe

Travis, I thought the same thing.

I have to wonder if lmb pellets would do the same thing on bass?

BTW, I drank the LabLab Koolaid quite a few years ago. The deer on my place never ate it.

MSC, I agree with that.

There was a 25 pounder foul hooked at Dixon several years ago. IIRC, that fish was caught or seen repeatedly over the years.

There was an attempt to tank grow a world record size largemouth, I believe back in the 70's. Apparently it was given up as just heavily feed a fish will grow a large fish, but not necessarily a record fish.

There are other things in play than just feed in producing a record fish, let alone a one in a million world record fish. One of the issues one runs into is a fast growing fsh has a shorter lifespan. One analogy used is a burning candle to show that fast growing fish will just burn out quicker.

I believe along with a good food supply a record fish is a genetic anamoly. I believe not only is it a fast growing fish but it posseses a gene to give it a longer than normal lifespan not penalized by the faster growth.

Case in point: I caught a yellow perch out of my pond that eclipsed our state record by 5 oz. and was over 16 inches in length. According to a friend that keeps track of yellow perch records in various states, a yellow perch over 16 inches is extremely rare. Very few but this one since 2005 exceeded much over 15 inches in my pond. 15 inches seems to be a barrier they rarely exceed even with ample feed.

I am doing something different now that may produce larger perch than I have been doing previously, but time will tell. That is the YOY hatched in a pond are brought inside in the fall to continue to grow over the winter and then faster growing females are planted into the all female pond in the spring. I am also going to establish a fathead minnow population (no bass present to decimate them) to provide additional nutrition other than pellets especially in the winter under the ice.

I presently have 11 inch perch in a basement tank that are just coming up on 1 years old. In the wild a 1 year old perch averages 3 to 4 inches.

That said, this may only produce large fish faster, but no record size fish due to the faster growth and possible shorter life spans.

I think genetics has a lot to do with getting the right bass to world record size. That being said, the fish with the correct genetics in a bad pond/lake wont achieve his maximum weight anyway.

I would personally rather have the pond with the right resources to start and work on the genetics.

Absolutely. I think that's a given.

Another thing I've noticed is some of my fish seem to have an eating disorder, as in can't get enough to eat. Most of my yellow perch will take a pellet here and there, but I'd had a few that are like swimming vacuum cleaners and will eat and eat and eat. It's as if the mechanism in their brain that tells them they are full isn't working. I had a small bass once eat 22 pellets in a row. At number 22 he acted like he was having trouble swimming. LOL A fish like that is going to put on some considerable weight even if it is fatty tissue.

The record bass coming out of California looking incredibly obsese with bulging eyeballs.

IMO it is the right combination of both nature and nurture that grows big fish. Genetics, diet, time, and water temps all play a role.

Artificial feed can grow big fish, but it might might not let them live long enough to grow to record a size.

And since we don't have species specific feed, the one size fits all approach may not be the best for their health. I.e., lots of fatty deposits and fatty livers due to too many carbs in the diet.

I was wondering the same thing. What about adding tilapia also to help take pressure off of the shad and BG? Or may it be approaching a carrying capacity limit?

Yep, this is the reason I have been feeding my five aquarium redears FHMs, night crawlers, and bloodworms rather than pellets over the winter.

I don't think a pellet fed bass or one that is even 50% pellet fed will ever get near the world record.

I think the midwest is a sleeper for growing trophy bass... typically we dont have adequate forage or optimum water quality for our bass for 12 months per year. As we get the water quality optimum for 12 months per year and we get the forage figured out for 12 months per year we are going to grow bigger bass than Texas, Florida, and California in private bodies of water.

Bass will grow over the winter months, they just dont typically have much of anything to eat in the typical midwestern body of water during the winter....

Also the fish born in the lake or pond are not the ones that have a chance at growing into trophies.... take the stress out of a bass's life in the first year or two or three and then stock her into the lake or pond that is prepped and ready and you will really start to see unnatural things happening in terms of fish growth.......

Nate,

So you think a bass will grow at maximum temps of 39 F. under the ice where metabolism is almost nil?

I will say that in the article, the person with the pond said he would be feeding the forage base. Not attempting to feed the bass on pellets. I actually like that approach.

It makes sense to me. Not sure if it's optimal, but I'm not in that field

39 degrees is a bit much but those huge California LMB reside in lakes where the water temps are favorable to supporting rainbow trout year round. Not too cold, not too hot, basically a Goldilocks zone.

There is a lot of data on LMB growth and metabolism. I don't see any evidence that mid-west LMB will produce multiple 20 lb LMB. Conditions and genetics.

Ewest, our Nebraska state record LMB is 10 lbs. 12 oz. and I don't think it will be broken any time soon.

Nate, I love you, but I think you are stirring the pot on this statement.

I give Condello less than 2 years to do it.

I find it interesting that the original record 22lb 4oz LMB was caught in Georgia, back in 1932. No one even considers GA for a new record, or even Florida. What happened?

I do think Bruce has the best shot at it, on the other hand LMB over 8 lbs. are a rarity here.

Yes I do, as long as they have something appropriate they can catch and eat. I am documenting on a regular basis fish growing through the winter. Also I catch lots of fat big bass while ice fishing, I'm talking lots of big bass through the ice that are eating big baits, they don't want little baits. Most Midwestern lakes don't have adequate natural forage for bass to grow in the winter.

Trout for example would not be ideal forage for bass under the ice.

39 degrees in my opinion is not the limiting factor that can't be overcome. Also what temp do you think the water is 50' down in a lake that is 80' deep in Illinois? Then what temp do you think the water is in California 50' down in an 80' deep lake?

Doing the same types of things over and over again and expecting different results is basically another way of thinking about lakes and ponds and bass and data and research from the Midwest. Addressing limiting factors Outside the box is key

It's been broken many times and will be broken alot more frequently in the years to come from private bodies of water. There are ways to consistently grow double digit bass in Nebraska it's just not with typical textbook stocking and management.

Stirring more than just a pot, gonna change the way people think and have been taught... You see naturally Texas grows bigger bass and Illinois grows bigger deer.... BUT the deer guys in Texas have figured a few things out to also now grow really big deer... Now the Illinois guys are a few years behind but we are going to grow Texas sized bass!

I bet you that public ground Texas deer hunting isn't quite the same as hunting behind those fences or managed ranches. Same as public water bass fishing in Illinois isn't too desirable for guys from Texas to come up here and do.....

But Illinois guys are now going to Texas to shoot big bucks and I'm gonna have Texas boys coming up to catch big bass...

Yeah like someone else said you better have some deep pockets to start things off. Bass eat and eat and eat lets think about this for a sec. A 15 inch bass can and will eat a 5 inch fish. Like n8ly said if you want big bass you have to feed them bigger fish. I am no expert by any means but I see this on my pond all the time. Your bigger bass swim around like sharks looking for that right moment to hit a fish and there not picking out the smaller ones. As soon as I put a 4 inch BG on a hook and bobber it will be gone in less than 10 minutes. They can't stand it they got to eat it it's in their blood to attact easy prey and if you don't have easy prey you need a LOT of prey to make it easier for them to catch and not expel to much energy doing it.

RC

The more people out there that tell me it can't be done the merrier... We are gonna take down the Illinois state record and once we start doing that consistently we will go after Texas, Florida, California, and then George Perry..... I have too work too many more years to be content with minimal improvement within the industry...

^^^^^^^
Right here....I believe that just because something has always been done or thought about in a certain way, doesn't mean that a better way doesn't exist. Accepted practice should only be accepted for the moment, and not automatically regarded as the final word on the subject. Things change, and new ideas and concepts are always awaiting discovery.

n8ly your the man! If I could afford to have someone manage my pond you would be on the top of the list bud!! Keep it up and show us some more of that good work you do more often!!

RC

Start by running heat to the pond in winter.

It has?

Growing a double digit bass in Nebraska is one thing, catching and having it certified is another.

Was it even real? There never was a picture...

Oops now I'm stirring the pond. LOL

Massachusetts has a state record of 15 lbs. and it's farther north than Nebraska and may even have more severe winters. Lots of snow anyway.

I was told the bass came out of a small lake that gets runs of alewives from the sea. Not sure how accurate that is.

Here too. I rarely see bass over 6 lbs. anymore here except from private ponds.

http://www.nooga.com/162026/possible-new-photo-of-world-record-largemouth-bass-surfaces

32 inch bass that is just fricken stupid big! What is amazing to me is that his equipment back then held up!! A fish that size today would be hard on our newer equipment I can't imagine trying to catch him with 1932 or older rods and reels.....

RC

That's awesome. Thanks for posting. I still question how it became a record without a photo submitted.

With money, most anything can be done. Except perhaps change biology. Maybe not, they do even change DNA these days...

Nate, I have no doubt that you can get it done.

I still think Bruce can get one larger than the Ne. state record in under 2 years. Did you see the size of the ones last Fall???

I love the confidence and I hope we can share ideas of how to accomplish this.

This. If Mass can get a 15-8, that far North, look what LMB can do. This record bass was caught ice fishing.

I heard that lake gets full of yellow perch and white perch.

That Massachusetts record has always been very interesting to me. Is there a photo out there? Why so much bigger than other northern states?

As I said earlier a resident told me the lake it was caught it gets an influx of alewives and shad from the ocean so it has a good varied forage base size. He also said the lake listed is not actually the lake it was caught in but a nearby one. Go figure.

Interesting thing about Mass, which is a state I cut my fishing teeth on, is the largemouths average larger than the ones in my area of northern Indiana. Only thing I can figure is all the rainbow trout that are planted in the lakes. Put and take trout fishing is a big deal out there with some holdover fish. Water quality tends to be really good up to 25 feet in clarity in some lakes, and 50 feet in one reservoir I fish on the dam side (25,000 acre Quabbin reservoir). The water tends to be soft although there are some exceptions. I've seen really large largemouth cruise by in the crystal clear water with no interest in baits.

Also bluegill are considered trash fish by most and get very light pressure if any at all, so perhaps that effects the bass forage base positively?

Our Indiana records is 14 lbs. 12 oz. out of a pond. I read the pond is loaded with frogs.

I think rainbow trout being stocked into a lake does create a huge boom for larger LMB as a food source.

One lake I fish in western MD has crystal clear water and has had many bass over 10 pounds caught out of it. Not a common thing in that area of the state or the mid Atlantic area in general. They generally only stock rainbow trout in the 9" plus range into the lake with most being 12" and above. It takes a fairly decent size bass to begin preying on a 9" rainbow and especially a 12" rainbow trout. Those trout are dumper than a newly stocked FHM from a fish farm. Full of lipids, high energy bass feed. The lake is also 88 feet deep at it's deepest spot and because of this depth and water quality, is able to support trout year round. Just like many of the California lakes that produce huge bass are "two story" fisheries. The upper story supports the warm water fish like LMB. The lower story, where the thermocline is supports the trout.