Well after working 12 hours in 120 degree heat yesterday. Not exaggerating. I came home to relax beside pond and feed fish. I went to wash the fish food powder from hands and that's when I saw them. I now have thousands of snails. They appear to be the local variety in the creeks and rivers in area. I'm trying to figure out how they might of got in pond and multiplied so fast. All of them I noticed are in the juvenile stage. How long ago would the pond have to of been contaminated to get to this point? Do GBH carry snails on feet? i stocked CC and HBG in october last year after first fill. Another stocking in spring of YP and HSB in spring. Then some SMB from creek mid july. In some places it's black spots as deep as you can see. I'll try to make video later. What are the pros if any to having snails. I'm pretty sure their are a bunch of cons. One more note. The pond hasn't even had water in for a year yet. Thanks guys.
No. I was just reading about them. Will my SMB and HSB be able to control there populations? I would like to figure out how these snails got in pond. Can fish be infected with snails when stocked and contaminate pond?
Hmmmmmmmm............ You moved fish from another body of water to yours - a "wild" body of water. Did you give the fish a salt dip before you put them in your pond, or did you just dump them in with the water from that BOW? If the latter, you could have had some snail hitchhikers in the water, although they usually stay attached to whatever they were crawling on.
Snails are part of the life cycle in swimmers itch.
I'd start looking now where I could source a few hunderd RES.
I put the SMB in 1 by 1 carefully inspecting them for leeches. I did not dump any water from creek into the pond. Do you think in a month and half since putting the SMB in they could have reached these numbers. Will 300 RES fish be to many for a quarter acre pond?right now I have 100 CC that I stocked last October. Pretty sure they all died over the winter as I have not seen or caught one. 100 HBG, 25 HSB, 20 SMB, and 25 YP. Thanks esshup.
Snails are not that big a deal. Take a breather... Stock 50-100 3"+ RES and if they are your normal pond snails, between them, YP and CC their numbers will drop fast. Snails could have come into your pond in one of many ways. They are far more likely to hitchhike on a bird than say eggs of a fish and live. If you bucket stocked or even from a hatchery, they could have come in that way as well. Snails sometimes just find their way. I wouldn't stress out over them. I like having snails in my pond. I introduced a few different species to increase the food chain.
I wouldn't sweat it. I'll bet most ponds in the midwest have snails. I know mine do....and we swim in them, and eat the fish from them. You have to realize that despite all of our hands-on management, we're still dealing with ponds after all....I believe there will always be surprises, exceptions, disappointments, triumphs, tribulations, and setbacks.....that's just how it is. Unless you place it under a giant plexiglass dome, you're going to have to contend with stuff like this. Seldom, if ever, are such events apocalyptic in nature.
I would consider said events, (and snails in general), the norm, rather than the exception.
I agree with CJ. I thought the pond was closer to 1 ac in size.
Like what sprkplug said, some things we'll never know. I was walking around in one small area of my pond today barefoot and felt something funny. Pulled it up and it was Chara in about 3-4' of water. Where did it come from? I have no idea.
I agree with CJ. I thought the pond was closer to 1 ac in size.
Like what sprkplug said, some things we'll never know. I was walking around in one small area of my pond today barefoot and felt something funny. Pulled it up and it was Chara in about 3-4' of water. Where did it come from? I have no idea.
Chara was the first living plant life-form in my pond, it was growing the first spring after my pond filled. That stuff must have spoors/pieces long buried on the soil that just wait until conditions are right. Now it is all over the place, but provides some interesting structure in the pond the fish seem to enjoy. Always see the larger fish hanging around the larger clumps of it while hunting. Cattails were the second addition, they were coming up like grass all over the inside basin of the pond, including down deep. Seeds must have been in the soil waiting for proper conditions.
I agree with CJ. I thought the pond was closer to 1 ac in size.
Like what sprkplug said, some things we'll never know. I was walking around in one small area of my pond today barefoot and felt something funny. Pulled it up and it was Chara in about 3-4' of water. Where did it come from? I have no idea.
Chara was the first living plant life-form in my pond, it was growing the first spring after my pond filled. That stuff must have spoors/pieces long buried on the soil that just wait until conditions are right. Now it is all over the place, but provides some interesting structure in the pond the fish seem to enjoy. Always see the larger fish hanging around the larger clumps of it while hunting. Cattails were the second addition, they were coming up like grass all over the inside basin of the pond, including down deep. Seeds must have been in the soil waiting for proper conditions.
Ok, here is best I could get my phone. I'm not sure I would be going out on limb if I said there were hundreds of thousands of them. These are the biggest and they get small down to we're you have to close eye a rock to see them.
Those are the common pond snail technically named genus Physella. Yellow perch will also eat quite a few of them since they have thin shells. They have the thinnest shells of most all snail species. RES will grow fast getting those snails under control.
Water snail mainly feed on the algae along with the microscopic creatures that naturally live on the algae. They will also consume some aquatic vegetation and detritus.
Water snail mainly feed on the algae along with the microscopic creatures that naturally live on the algae. They will also consume some aquatic vegetation and detritus.
Ok it's fish truck day. So what I should be getting to control snails is around $50 RES? One more thing. I do not have a problem with aquatic plants yet, but should I go a head a throw a grass carp in while I'm at it? Thanks everybody.
Get the largest RES you can....if it was me, I wouldn't put in too many, they'll be able to eat a ton of snails as they grow, and if you limit numbers, you'll have the chance to have some really large RES going forward. However, if all the fish truck has are 1-2" fish, you may want a larger number, even 100 or so, as your smallies can't distinguish between Devils Spawn [F2 HBG] and Golden Children [yoy RES].
In many instances the RES available may be pretty small...especially when buying them off the truck. Do you know what sizes they have? It's hard for a 2" RES to avoid predation in an already established pond. Size of the RES will of course determine the price you have to pay.
I've heard two schools of thought on the GC, one says to stock in advance of the vegetation, as a preventative measure, while the other advocates waiting to see if a problem arises before stocking a fish that may denude your pond of ALL vegetation. Personally, I don't think one would hurt, and I'm so paranoid about vegetation that I probably would try it. If it's starving, muddying the bottom, or eating pellets intended for other fish, you should be able to remove ONE.
I'm not sure what size they will have but I will get the biggest I can get. So if i can only get 1 to 2 inch i should get a hundred? I do not have any source of tilapia unless Rex is passing through and my pond is only a quarter acre so it's hard to order some in small numbers. I may just go ahead and throw one GC in. Like spark said I could always bowfish it out.
Ok, I got a hundred RES in the 1 to 3 inch range. Mainly inch and half range. These things look exactly like the fish I'm trapping and dumping over dam. They might be an expensive snack for SMB and HSB. Gonna have to build me a condello cage fore spring I guess. Is it possible some redear got mixed in with HBG during stocking? I bought me 20 albino CC and end up with 30 after counting during release. I noticed some had white spots on them. I hope this isn't something serious. They were very lively.
You can kind of see white spots on fins below I'm talking about. I should be able to see these feeding I paid a buck a piece for 20 but got 30. I'm pretty sure my hundred CC I stocked last fall died over the winter. They have not been feeding on pellets anyway.
Don't fret if you don't see your albino CC are feeding time. It took weeks before I saw any of mine and even then they come and go. It amazes me with how many albino fish I have in my pound, how rarely I see them.
Crap! My put and take pond has went up in smoke. I might as well stock LMB now. Crap! Crap! The truck was farmcats.com. I'm PO'ed. I thought when I was putting them in they looked just like the ones I was taking out. Now what? This is the biggest monkey wrench yet. Let the suggestions start. CNB were being sold on same truck. How can I fix this? Will my HBG just breed back to regular? I'm lost. I'm never buying fish from a farm store truck again. Prob where the snails came from too.
Just got back from the river and I'm still at loss of words that I can say on here. I'm calling farmcats.com at opening and giving them an earful. What can I say on here, but dad gummit!
Keep trapping them and removing them and maybe you SMB and HSB will help you out. You might get lucky and none will make it to spawn. you can fish through the winter with small hooks for them too. I guess if you have two or more make it to spawn you could be in for it.
Jwwann- All's not lost, even if those are BG. In a predator heavy pond such as yours, with YP,CC, SMB and HBG, you'll have a lot of allies in controlling BG numbers. Being BG, they'll still reproduce and recruit-but nothing like they would without adult smb after them. So, although you can drain and start all over again, I'd really focus on having an extremely active predator base for the near term, continuing all your efforts to remove smaller lepomis species [anything that's not a definite hbg or RES], and see how it goes. You can still stock put and take HBG, HSB, and YP at a size where the smallies won't be able to eat them. If it were me, I'd continue to add bucket stocked, nonpellet eating SMB, perhaps some really large perch if you have access to them, then focus on removing any BG you catch.
Thanks again guys. Maybe the CNB will grow on me like the SMB did. I still need some redear for the snails though. I may wait till spring before going any further. I will try to load up on more SMB in the mean time.
Don't worry about it too much, I'd take a wait and see attitude until next year, trying to catch some RES next year from the pond. Then and only then if I didnt' see any would I get agressive in removing the BG.
Another reason why to purchase fish from a reliable supplier if you don't have RES.
Wait, you said CNBG were also on the truck? If a true CNBG, they might not survive the winter in your pond, so it might be a moot point.
The only bluegill they were selling on truck was CNB. They were selling lots them too! The only fish they were selling was CNBG, RES, LMB, CC, GC, FHM, and bullfrog tadpoles. I was going to get a GC, but they sold out almost instantly. They said they would be back in 4 weeks and he would bring more.
Ye Olde Fish Truck strikes again. Been there, done that - now have dozens of master angler bullhead in my dream fishery thanks to infected FHM truck order. Impetuous, budding fishery manager I was - in such a hurry - made many mistakes. Sigh.
If one HAS to opt for truck stocking - for the love of everything sacred and holy - please hand sort and be very familiar with the discernable traits of the species you need to stock. RES or BG in 1-2" range are IMO too small to easily ID and mistakes seem inevitable.
Jwann don't you have a few public waters near you with RES? Go RES fishing [1/32 oz jig and crawler on/near bottom] and stock adults. Be sure to check for any signs of disease - think about a salt water bath first, too. They'll pull a spawn next year and your snail management issues will be addressed.
If you stocked NBG, they are now a permanent species in your fishery. I made the same mistake - with cool water species predators [HSB, SMB, YP, WE] and my nets/traps/angling the only BG population management tools available. As advised by others, my fishery is proof that heavy populations of apex predators will still allow you a HSB/SMB/YP/WE fishery with BG present if you really want one. You need to employ ladder stocking and I recommend supplemental pellet program too. Keep dense shallow structure to a minimum or remove as much as you can if you already placed it. If you can remove some vegetation annually that also helps. These management techniques all help manage BG populations, and once your HSB hit the 24"+ range and SMB 17"+ they can start hammering 4"+ BG and this helps a ton, too.
Know what you are buying and that you can trust the source. I tell them all that I will examine the fish pre stock and if they arn't what I ordered then they take them home without pay.
The CNBG I stocked in the pond before draining and putting 18 inch clay lining last year are still living today in a livestock pond on my neighbors property. We seined most the fish out before cutting through my dam. I caught a few in it in spring to see if they lived. They looked great. Had the beautiful vertical markings on them. We did not have a super cold winter though. That live stock pond is around 20 foot diameter 10 foot deep at dam. It was new also.
I work all weekend but Monday I get off at 1. I will ride my 4 wheeler back to it and snap a few photos to show. What parts of fish should I focus in on for positive Id?I know this small pond iced over for a significant amount of time last winter. I dumped half of that stocking I could seine in that pond and half in my uncles 1 and 1/2 pond. The only reason I saved them was I planing on catching them again and restocking after renovation till I become fascinated with Bruce and sparks HBG. I do remember when I threw them in that livestock pond it was pretty clear. When I went back in spring to try and see if they survived winter and try and catch my 2 pound koi the water was very turbid.
TJ says: Ye Olde Fish Truck strikes again. Been there, done that - now have dozens of master angler bullhead in my dream fishery thanks to infected FHM truck order. Impetuous, budding fishery manager I was - in such a hurry - made many mistakes. Sigh.
If one HAS to opt for truck stocking - for the love of everything sacred and holy - please hand sort and be very familiar with the discernable traits of the species you need to stock. RES or BG in 1-2" range are IMO too small to easily ID and mistakes seem inevitable.
Jwann don't you have a few public waters near you with RES? Go RES fishing [1/32 oz jig and crawler on/near bottom] and stock adults. Be sure to check for any signs of disease - think about a salt water bath first, too. They'll pull a spawn next year and your snail management issues will be addressed.
If you stocked NBG, they are now a permanent species in your fishery. I made the same mistake - with cool water species predators [HSB, SMB, YP, WE] and my nets/traps/angling the only BG population management tools available. As advised by others, my fishery is proof that heavy populations of apex predators will still allow you a HSB/SMB/YP/WE fishery with BG present if you really want one. You need to employ ladder stocking and I recommend supplemental pellet program too. Keep dense shallow structure to a minimum or remove as much as you can if you already placed it. If you can remove some vegetation annually that also helps. These management techniques all help manage BG populations, and once your HSB hit the 24"+ range and SMB 17"+ they can start hammering 4"+ BG and this helps a ton, too.
That's encouraging to hear TJ. My biggest problem is closest hatchery is 4 hours away. My pond is only a quater acre so delivery isnt really an option. I got lucky on my HSB and YP because Rex picked me some up and brought them back on a trip to Sunil's. I hope to do buisness with him again. Redear do exist in the rivers around me but are rare compared to LES. Has anybody ever tried these to control snails. The creeks and rivers around me are loaded with them and you can catch over a hundred an hour. They are snail eaters but do not get vey big. http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/longear-sunfish
Beautiful sunfish, I have no experience with them. If they don't get large enough for angling interest or table fare, then think long and hard about stocking them. Before doing so be sure you determine their fecundity - if they are multiple spawners you could have an overpopulation of dink BG and dink LES.
I think you have far more important issues to resolve than snail management - namely, how are you planning on managing your BG population? What species are going to make up your fishery? What's in the pond currently? Snails are ubiquitous - you won't necessarily have grub or swimmers itch issues - I don't think snails are your primary concern now. Figuring out how to establish your fishery and stocking plans seem more important.
Planned fishery was HBG, CC, HSB and YP. Thats gone. I dislike LMB I guess be cause every pond I have ever fished in was overpopulated with dink ones. I have three choices. Lime now and restock in spring, introduce LMB, or try to figure this out as is and make it work. Really hate to start over seeing how all the trouble I've had last two years. Dug pond. Stocked. Pond leaked. Cut dam and drained. Lined 18 iches with clay. Filled. Restocked. Now one year later all seams lost again. What would be another good predator fish that would not reproduce in pond conditions. I'm going to sit back and listen for a while before making anymore choices and no more Farmcat.com fish trucks! We should make a sticky of my post and say here is what not to do. LoL! Seriously I hope I can get off work to meet you all at Bruce's and figure this out. Could WE or NP live in my pond after I get my aeration set?
I had them in my aquarium until last month. They get pretty aggressive toward each other in a 40 gallon with 3. I've caught these around half pound max. They do tast good but by the time you clean them you have a slither fillet. The Missouri state record is 11OZ.
Snail update. While out in Nebraska my snails seemed to have disappeared. Do they go deeper in fall or is something taking them out? The shore line was completely covered with them a few weeks ago. Crazy! I lurked the banks today pulling cattails and noticed no snails. In a HBG bed just out of the water I noticed a bunch of floating empty shells. It appears something is sucking them right out of their shells unless they are just dying of old age.
With a few exceptions, all mammals and birds are warm-blooded, and all reptiles, insects, arachnids, amphibians and fish are cold-blooded.
This is probably the most important fact to keep in mind when thinking about activity and energy use (metabolism). It also effects life span (somewhat)and all bodily functions.
I guess I don't quite see why snails would be an issue? I feel like multiple BG I've cut open have had snails in their belly. And I do believe YP will eat them as well, but I could be remembering wrong.
I think Pumpkin Seeds would be an option for another snail eater. The get a little bigger than the Missouri Longear.
I was just wondering if I had some fish eating on them or they moved out of site because of fall. They stay visible in the creeks and rivers around. I'm thinking something is eating them which is a good thing. Not one to be found.
I guess I don't quite see why snails would be an issue? I feel like multiple BG I've cut open have had snails in their belly. And I do believe YP will eat them as well, but I could be remembering wrong.
I think Pumpkin Seeds would be an option for another snail eater. The get a little bigger than the Missouri Longear.
I looked again last night and all I'm seeing is floating empty shells. Can young fish somehow suck the bodies out of the shell? I'm leaning toward yes unless I just had a major snail kill.
