Ok so I am helping a friend develop a very nice hunting lodge in Deep South Texas. He wants a 2-3 acre lake in front of the lodge. The lake will be supplied by an 8" well which was just finished last week. The top two to three feet of the soil is sand but below that is clay. I no absolutely nothing about clay but I was told that it was red clay on top and blue clay below that for a depth of at least 15 feet per the test dig. Had no idea there were different types of clay. Looked all the same to me!! Per google earth there is less than four feet in elevation change in the proposed site. Just FYI the lodge sits up higher on a small knoll/sand dune. I have many questions but first and foremost can I have an input on any problems/advantages/ experiences we might encounter? I assume there is no need for a dam? Have to make your own structure such as artificial depth changes, rocks, hardwood? I am sure i have probably caused more questions than provoked answers but thanks in advance for any comments.
pics usually bring much quicker responses
pics usually bring much quicker responses
Pics? Of the land? Not much to see. It is flat with a few mesquites and a lot of sand!
??????????? Did I miss something here?
Here is a picture from approximately where the edge of the lake bed will be. You can see that the lodge sits on a small rise. The lake itself will behind from where the pic is taken.
Here's bklem's picture:
Seems like its going to be an awesome place. Do you know how deep you intend to dig the pond. I guess if you go beyond the clay layer and hit sand again it might not hold water as tightly. Will the wells be free flowing artesean wells or will they be pumping the water up and into the pond?
Bobby,
The test dig was 18' and still had good clay so I believe we will go at least 18'. I would think in the heat down there that the deeper, the better? The well is conventional, not artesian. I assume there will be a float system to keep the lake constant level?
What is the GPM on the well?
What is the GPM on the well?
Not sure. I will find out. I do know that this is a very large ranch and there are several other lakes on the other pastures which are kept constant level. They are probably not quite as large though.
what are your stocking plans or goals for the fish?
what are your stocking plans or goals for the fish?
That is where we will definitely turn to the experts! The lakes primary purpose will be for lmb. One side note is that we have access from one of the lodges owners other ranches to a five acre lake that has an overpopulation of pellet trained lmb. Not sure if it would make sense to try and relocate those or not? The other ranch is in north texas. Just one of many questions!
Call Mike Otto, he will be able to assist you in constructing your pond. The information you are seeking is very difficult to accurately provide without an on-site visit.
What is the GPM on the well?
65 GPM
With that much amount of clay content down to 15ft or greater depth, there's not much worry about leaching issues once the clay soil get saturated with water. Now, how hot is on the average at your location, and when do the heat reach above 80°F (spring/summer), remain constant or get hotter, and when it drops below 80°F (fall/winter) and remain constant? It will depict the pond/lake ideal depth as well as volume of available for your fish for various scenarios.
Thanks Leo. Below 80 is not an issue. Above 80 is a constant for probably 6-8 months of the year in south Texas.
For everyone else, is 65 GPM sufficient volume to fill three acres and keep it full?
Thanks Leo. Below 80 is not an issue. Above 80 is a constant for probably 6-8 months of the year in south Texas.
For everyone else, is 65 GPM sufficient volume to fill three acres and keep it full?
No way to tell if the 65 gpm is enough until you can tell us how much gpm will be lost due to any leakage and evaporation.
Personally? I'd dig the pond at least 20' figuring that as soon as you finish digging, it will start filling back up (slowly). That's just mother nature at work. Providing you still have clay at that depth tho. If you hit a sand vein, stop digging in that area, note the depth and pack at least 18" of clay over the sand.
More water volume is better in the Texas climate, well or no well.
Billy, your friend is building a nice looking lodge. Not many people stick build them anymore. I never did care for trusses. Good luck.
Thanks Leo. Below 80 is not an issue. Above 80 is a constant for probably 6-8 months of the year in south Texas.
For everyone else, is 65 GPM sufficient volume to fill three acres and keep it full?
No way to tell if the 65 gpm is enough until you can tell us how much gpm will be lost due to any leakage and evaporation.
Personally? I'd dig the pond at least 20' figuring that as soon as you finish digging, it will start filling back up (slowly). That's just mother nature at work. Providing you still have clay at that depth tho. If you hit a sand vein, stop digging in that area, note the depth and pack at least 18" of clay over the sand.
More water volume is better in the Texas climate, well or no well.
No doubt about getting as much depth as we can. Evaporation will be severe with the summers we experience down south. Thanks for the advice.
Billy, your friend is building a nice looking lodge. Not many people stick build them anymore. I never did care for trusses. Good luck.
Thanks Ken. It really Is an amazing place. 17K acres of virgin country in the middle of nowhere. We have a lot of work to do!
Golden Triangle, or more West?
Looks like a great project.
Should have enough land to have a couple of decent deer drives. Does he have a really old old maid daughter?
Should have enough land to have a couple of decent deer drives. Does he have a really old old maid daughter?
Or a younger daughter?
All joking aside, from the pictures the pond will likely most closely resemble a pit pond. My definition of a pit pond is a pond that is built basically by "digging" a hole in the ground with scraper or dozer and using that dirt for the dam. I put digging in quotes because there are too many instances of just digging hole and having leaking ponds. All of our pit ponds have gone dry or near dry in this drought.
I also second getting Mike Otto involved. The link below offers proof of how much one will appreciate Mike Otto.
Helpful Thread Mike Otto WebsiteMike Otto Contact Information
I have 2 pit ponds and they do go up and down but I love them. They never get muddy or stained and make for rich water that is a crackerjack place to fish. I wish I had a well to feed them. His well should keep his pond in great shape.
Billy, if the top 2 ft are sand and the rest clay, it will always be 2 ft below full pool. No problem. One acre ft of water is 326,000 gallons and the pump will push 2,100 gallons per hour or 50,400 gallons per day.
So, it all depends on how many acres and how deep it is.
Golden Triangle, or more West?
Looks like a great project.
South of Falfurias about 35 miles. Between 281 & 77.
If they take the clay from the pond bottom, plate over the top 2 feet of sand and compact it properly, I think the pond will stay full if the well can keep up.
If they take the clay from the pond bottom, plate over the top 2 feet of sand and compact it properly...
Absolutely. Since there doesn't seem to be any ground water issues, I'd make that pond as solid as a bathtub. Even with the evaporation, if it's solid, the pump should keep up with the water loss.
I've heard rumors that there's deer down there. Any truth to that?
Scott and Al, I've never understood how to make clay stay on a vertical surface. But, I've never tried it. One thing I do believe is that, if the side is "plastered" with solid clay, it will have to be kept continually under water or at least wet. If not, it will crack.
Dave:
I agree on all counts. But, the top 24" layer is sand, and that should be tapered 3:1 so it should be easy to plate over the sand. Anything steeper than that with sand will cause the sand to slough off and migrate to the bottom of the pond.
There is a formula out there somewhere that takes averages of air temperature, humidity, water temperature, surface area, wind speed, and light to calculate hourly evaporation rates. I read about it one time but can't recall where. That is information you will need to know.
If they take the clay from the pond bottom, plate over the top 2 feet of sand and compact it properly, I think the pond will stay full if the well can keep up.
I believe the plan is to dig down. Another words to essentially make a hole and not deal with the sand at all. I guess the other way to do it would be to build a burm to fold the water but that certainly would not make much sense, would it?
Dave:
I agree on all counts. But, the top 24" layer is sand, and that should be tapered 3:1 so it should be easy to plate over the sand. Anything steeper than that with sand will cause the sand to slough off and migrate to the bottom of the pond.
I believe the plan is to sod grass along the edges to prevent this from happening. Wouldn't that work?
Scott and Al, I've never understood how to make clay stay on a vertical surface. But, I've never tried it. One thing I do believe is that, if the side is "plastered" with solid clay, it will have to be kept continually under water or at least wet. If not, it will crack.
If the entire area is clay then we really shouldn't have to "plaster" it, on the sides of anything, should we?
Scott and Al, I've never understood how to make clay stay on a vertical surface. But, I've never tried it. One thing I do believe is that, if the side is "plastered" with solid clay, it will have to be kept continually under water or at least wet. If not, it will crack.
If the entire area is clay then we really shouldn't have to "plaster" it, on the sides of anything, should we?
I believe they are talking about the top 2-3 feet that you said is sand. The water will rise up to that level and then soak/bleed out into the sand, never reaching the surface level of your topography. That might be ok if you also removed horrendous amount of dirt around the edges of the pond so it would have a nice walkable slope down to the waters edge. BUT why? Just take some of the clay that comes out of the bowl and pack down in the rim where there is sand and you will get the water to rise all the way up.
Scott and Al, I've never understood how to make clay stay on a vertical surface. But, I've never tried it. One thing I do believe is that, if the side is "plastered" with solid clay, it will have to be kept continually under water or at least wet. If not, it will crack.
If the entire area is clay then we really shouldn't have to "plaster" it, on the sides of anything, should we?
I believe they are talking about the top 2-3 feet that you said is sand. The water will rise up to that level and then soak/bleed out into the sand, never reaching the surface level of your topography. That might be ok if you also removed horrendous amount of dirt around the edges of the pond so it would have a nice walkable slope down to the waters edge. BUT why? Just take some of the clay that comes out of the bowl and pack down in the rim where there is sand and you will get the water to rise all the way up.
Gotcha. That is what I had in mind but you explained it much better! Speaking of packing the clay, do you still have to pack the existing clay if it is already present or will it just be naturally water tight? I think I know the answer, which is yes, but thought I'd ask.
Bklem, what about the old old maid daughter?
Gotcha. That is what I had in mind but you explained it much better! Speaking of packing the clay, do you still have to pack the existing clay if it is already present or will it just be naturally water tight? I think I know the answer, which is yes, but thought I'd ask.
As long as the equipment was there, I would. Yes, it'd be more $$ up front, but a lot less than if you had to drain and re-pack it. I'm more of a belt and suspenders type of guy.
But, I'm not the guy on the machine when the pond is being dug. You never know what you'll run into when digging. It might be good enough without packing.
Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Bikini, Krakatoa, Vesuvius...
No way to tell if the 65 gpm is enough until you can tell us how much gpm will be lost due to any leakage and evaporation.
Personally? I'd dig the pond at least 20' figuring that as soon as you finish digging, it will start filling back up (slowly). That's just mother nature at work. Providing you still have clay at that depth tho. If you hit a sand vein, stop digging in that area, note the depth and pack at least 18" of clay over the sand.
More water volume is better in the Texas climate, well or no well.
Dang Scott!! You read my mind so freaking well!! Are you sure you're not my lost twin brother? LOL
Indeed, for central Texas, I looked up the historical data, and man, the temperature is going to be a killer. The transevaporative process is reaching the 65gpm, but should be sufficient to handle the size of exposed surface area, as long as there's no leakage.
There is a formula out there somewhere that takes averages of air temperature, humidity, water temperature, surface area, wind speed, and light to calculate hourly evaporation rates. I read about it one time but can't recall where. That is information you will need to know.
Dwight, dead on! Man, you guys are brilliant when it comes to sciences. This forum covers pretty much the entire array of PhD to field-based experienced gurus. This is where historical data from NOAA comes in handy, as well as some Almanac info, since Texas is a bit behind on their information updates. Once the info get tabulated, you then utilize 4 equations to calculate for the speed of transevaporation. Unfortunately, it has to be done by hand. This is where calculus comes in handy.
Billy, 2 acres, with the constant 65gpm without leeching loss, you're golden, with a 25% of water to spare. 3 acres, based on the temperature peek between 95°F to 110°F, you may experience net water loss of -12%, at 65gpm. I'll have my coworkers in the geological department do some side calculations during their lunch time to verify. If they come up with something different, I'll let you know. Sorry, morning hours and not having the coffee hitting my brain yet makes me a bit slow.
No way to tell if the 65 gpm is enough until you can tell us how much gpm will be lost due to any leakage and evaporation.
Personally? I'd dig the pond at least 20' figuring that as soon as you finish digging, it will start filling back up (slowly). That's just mother nature at work. Providing you still have clay at that depth tho. If you hit a sand vein, stop digging in that area, note the depth and pack at least 18" of clay over the sand.
More water volume is better in the Texas climate, well or no well.
Dang Scott!! You read my mind so freaking well!! Are you sure you're not my lost twin brother? LOL
Indeed, for central Texas, I looked up the historical data, and man, the temperature is going to be a killer. The transevaporative process is reaching the 65gpm, but should be sufficient to handle the size of exposed surface area, as long as there's no leakage.
There is a formula out there somewhere that takes averages of air temperature, humidity, water temperature, surface area, wind speed, and light to calculate hourly evaporation rates. I read about it one time but can't recall where. That is information you will need to know.
Dwight, dead on! Man, you guys are brilliant when it comes to sciences. This forum covers pretty much the entire array of PhD to field-based experienced gurus. This is where historical data from NOAA comes in handy, as well as some Almanac info, since Texas is a bit behind on their information updates. Once the info get tabulated, you then utilize 4 equations to calculate for the speed of transevaporation. Unfortunately, it has to be done by hand. This is where calculus comes in handy.
Billy, 2 acres, with the constant 65gpm without leeching loss, you're golden, with a 25% of water to spare. 3 acres, based on the temperature peek between 95°F to 110°F, you may experience net water loss of -12%, at 65gpm. I'll have my coworkers in the geological department do some side calculations during their lunch time to verify. If they come up with something different, I'll let you know. Sorry, morning hours and not having the coffee hitting my brain yet makes me a bit slow.
Wow, you lost me when you said "calculus"! Two things I don't do- math and running!!! Thanks for the effort. Sounds like we should be fine as long as we don't have a leak!
Bklem, what about the old old maid daughter?
LOL no old maid ! I'd be first in line if that was the case!
Sounds like we should be fine as long as we don't have a leak!
All the more to confirm what Esshup said. Pack all of it if time, money and circumstances allow it. If you are paying to fill it, you don't want any to go to waste needlessly.
Sounds like we should be fine as long as we don't have a leak!
All the more to confirm what Esshup said. Pack all of it if time, money and circumstances allow it. If you are paying to fill it, you don't want any to go to waste needlessly.
Very true.
Now that I am clear as mud on everything we have discussed, here are some other questions I have.
#1 Will there be any need for any type of spillway in the remote chance that we have heavy rain-don't laugh it used to rain down there four or five years ago!
#2 I think I understand how the artificial creeks and humps will be designed and I also hope to have several rock piles/condos along the "creeks" but how do I go about getting any hardwood in place? I envision digging them up, setting them aside, and then after all is done and before filling, re-planting-if you will-them in strategic locations. Does that have any merit or will that just open the door for leakage?
Clear as mud is still pretty good compared to clear as the darkest night
1. If you want to make the lake's bank equal all the way around, then a spill way is a good idea. Since there's a few feet of elevation different, spillway is not needed. The lowest part of the lake will be your spillway. Just make sure to dig a bit deeper on the higher elevation end to create a nice equalized depth between the lowest elevation depth to the higher end. For the lowest end, if you don't want your bank to erode away heavily during a high rain event, best to line the bottom of the earthen spillway with a coconut mat (used in construction all the time), lined with a layer of compact earth, and then lined with a layer of 2" to 3" rocks as energy dissipation system to prevent slope erosion.
If you want to find out unique creek-like energy dissipation design, look at the local Department of Transportation and Natural Resource Department for creek embankment restoration for creek/spring restoration and beautification processes, utilizing energy dissipation methods. Rain garden is also used for slope erosion control for downstream pond owners as well when there's overspills occurring annually.
2. If you can drill down even deeper, and see where the clay will end, this will provide you the info on what kind of plants is good to replant in the lake. Plants that have deep boring roots, if you have have the large clay strata, will allow an escape for water to the lose soil below the existing clay layer later. So, it's all how much you are willing to drill and test how deep your clay layer really is.
Well, hope that mud is becoming a bit clearer..lemonade clear maybe?
Dwight, dead on! Man, you guys are brilliant when it comes to sciences. This forum covers pretty much the entire array of PhD to field-based experienced gurus. This is where historical data from NOAA comes in handy, as well as some Almanac info, since Texas is a bit behind on their information updates. Once the info get tabulated, you then utilize 4 equations to calculate for the speed of transevaporation. Unfortunately, it has to be done by hand. This is where calculus comes in handy.
I am sure Maple could handle it. I know a professor that used Maple to solve five equations, five unknowns for his 8 yr son's pine wood derby car to make sure the weight balance was correct.
Now that I am clear as mud on everything we have discussed, here are some other questions I have.
#1 Will there be any need for any type of spillway in the remote chance that we have heavy rain-don't laugh it used to rain down there four or five years ago!
#2 I think I understand how the artificial creeks and humps will be designed and I also hope to have several rock piles/condos along the "creeks" but how do I go about getting any hardwood in place? I envision digging them up, setting them aside, and then after all is done and before filling, re-planting-if you will-them in strategic locations. Does that have any merit or will that just open the door for leakage?
#1- A spillway is always a safe backup and it saves your dam. We have a pipe through all of our ponds to draw them down when the water is less than 3 feet above the top of the pipe. Make sure the pipe is installed correctly by tamping dirt correctly under and along the sides of the pipe and include anti-seep collar. A good pond builder will know how to do this.
#2- What hardwood trees do you have in mind? Do you want standing timber? There are many options. Just trying to figure out what exactly you have in mind.
Dwight, dead on! Man, you guys are brilliant when it comes to sciences. This forum covers pretty much the entire array of PhD to field-based experienced gurus. This is where historical data from NOAA comes in handy, as well as some Almanac info, since Texas is a bit behind on their information updates. Once the info get tabulated, you then utilize 4 equations to calculate for the speed of transevaporation. Unfortunately, it has to be done by hand. This is where calculus comes in handy.
I am sure Maple could handle it. I know a professor that used Maple to solve five equations, five unknowns for his 8 yr son's pine wood derby car to make sure the weight balance was correct.
I am kinda partial to Mathcad myself. They both are really cool programs.
PTC recently released a free version of Mathcad. A number of advanced features are disabled, but I doubt the vast majority of people would use them.
My last upgrade was in 2008, and none of the hundreds of apps I have written over the past 23 years will import into the free version. They need to be converted with the latest full version, which I am not going to get.
If the default windows scientific calculator is over your head, then you defiantly don't even want to be messing around with the free version, unless you like math
Excellent calculator page. However, evap is just one of the three primary. You got leeching/hydrological flow (extremely important if the pond/lake is not properly sealed from below the water's surface), and transevaporative process by plants (which is minimal but still need to be considered)
Ok bringing this thread back to the top. Lake is built. Just under 2 acres and has maximum depth of 18'. I have not personally seen it yet but am going down to the ranch tomorrow. I do have a picture albeit not a great one and cant figure out how to post it as more than an attachment. Plenty of questions.
#1I have read where freshly cut oak trees can prove toxic to the water. There are no oaks but are plenty of large bull mesquites. I would really like to cut several of these and drag them to primary spots. Will that be an issue?
#2 There are no rocks whatsoever on the place so what would be the best/cheapest type of rock to put in the lake. I can't imagine trying to haul enough big rocks 300 miles on a 16' flatbed. Seems like it might take more in gas than a load of cheap rock delivered?
#3. There is plenty of sand available but it is very fine beach like sand. Would I be better off getting a load of pea gravel for a spawning area?
I am sure I have created more questions for myself but it is a start.
1. Oak is toxic, to a certain level, yes. Bull mesquite, no. Go nuts.
2. Got local quarries? Streams? Plenty of those 1/2 to 1 ton boulders will decorate nicely. Otherwise, river rocks.
3. Pea gravel is great. 1/4" and 1/8" river rocks are perfect.
I like using pans to do alot of the dirt moving and shaping. Looks sweEt
1. Oak is toxic, to a certain level, yes. Bull mesquite, no. Go nuts.
2. Got local quarries? Streams? Plenty of those 1/2 to 1 ton boulders will decorate nicely. Otherwise, river rocks.
3. Pea gravel is great. 1/4" and 1/8" river rocks are perfect.
Thanks. Lots of mesquite so that is good. No quarries anywhere near this place nor any streams of any type. Lots of beachfront close by!
I know a lot of areas in Texas have low alkalinity waters. If you can find limestone, use that in the pond. Anything that will bring up the alkalinity will help.
There's a great thread in the archives on structure/cover for fish. Take a look at it if you haven't done so already.
Wow, great looking pond! Is that sand all over the bottom or clay? Hard to tell.
If you have boulders available, I would order a variety of sizes and a few loads. As mentioned, limestone would be beneficial. Then rent/hire a skid-steer to place them around the pond basin making huts, cavities, and caves (aka Love shacks). They should become excellent places to dangle a hook.
I didn't have the ability to move stones larger than 2' without a skid-steer, but of the "love shacks" I made, the fish are always around them or in them. I built one that had about a 5cu ft interior with my son that wound-up being about 12' under. I snorkel down to it and find perch in there all the time staring back at me. They love it! The FHM on the other hand used to think it was theirs, not the best home for them any more.
Wow, great looking pond! Is that sand all over the bottom or clay? Hard to tell.
If you have boulders available, I would order a variety of sizes and a few loads. As mentioned, limestone would be beneficial. Then rent/hire a skid-steer to place them around the pond basin making huts, cavities, and caves (aka Love shacks). They should become excellent places to dangle a hook.
I didn't have the ability to move stones larger than 2' without a skid-steer, but of the "love shacks" I made, the fish are always around them or in them. I built one that had about a 5cu ft interior with my son that wound-up being about 12' under. I snorkel down to it and find perch in there all the time staring back at me. They love it! The FHM on the other hand used to think it was theirs, not the best home for them any more.
That is clay. We have about 3-5' of sand on top and then clay down to at least 23'. I know rocks will be my best bet but the expense of them may be an issue! It is a long way for shipment and the cost of delivery is what will get us. I've got plenty of tires and pallets so that may have to suffice.
What about cedar posts tied together in a teepee like setup? Would that work? Have access to unlimited cedar here in the hill country of Texas.
Do you have any access to broken-up concrete like old foundations and sidewalks? You may find someone just aching for a place to dump that stuff. The tough part is cutting out the rebar and manhandling the chunks around.
I am trying to get some concrete from a road construction site the county is doing. Not sure how that will work. I did get to see the lake this weekend and it has lots of deep water. There are plenty of contour changes but obviously no structure whatsoever. Nor is there any drastic depth changes like sheer drop offs. Will that be a problem?
The plan for structure is to utilize the numerous large dead mesquite trees that are all over the ranch. First question is, will they float and if so how should I anchor them? I'm thinking of trying to get a bunch of concrete culverts from the same road project? Will they be toxic if they are older?
Another thought I had was for the real deep water and Vertical structure like standing timber. For my tree trunk, i am thinking of putting a t post in the bottom of the lake and putting a 4-6", 10' tall PVC pipe over it with a 1/2 bag of sacrete down inside for stability. Then I can drill holes, actually pre-drilled, for 1" PVC pipes going thru at various depths and directions to create the "limbs" of the tree. In addition , I thought of bending small sections of cattle panels over my "limbs" for more structure. Thinking of doing these in 3-4 clusters throughout the bottom of the deepest part of the lake. Am I crazy?
1. Just a mindful thing you need to know about concrete, where other in the construction industry may hammer me on this..don't shoot the scientist. Concrete, depending on what it's used for previous before it may have been recycled and reused as base material, can contain excess heavy metals, as well as unknown trapped pollutants from the activities (and/or soils) that you may not be aware of as you salvaged it for usages. That then get introduced into your pond. The concentration of the pollutants and metals may not be high to be alarmed about, but I don't know how long the concrete materials have been supporting the roadways, leeching and absorbing. Definitely your call. Concrete will bring the pH up. Those who make concrete pipes, as well as inert landfill owners, claim that cured concrete will not bring pH down or raise pH up. Beg to differ. Plenty of enforcement lawsuits I have involved over the years that prove otherwise.
2. Mesquite tree indeed will float like a log, if it's dead and has been bone dried for a long while. Over time, as the water seeps into the body, and the wood undergoes decomposition, it will remain sunken. You won't know how much weight to use to anchor it down unless you do a trial run on the buoyancy level of the dead mesquite. You may need a 1/2 top of weight to hold it down, or you may only need a pebble. Can't tell until there's water. If you require to anchor them is not to compromise your pond's bottom lining. Just weight on both sides, and lots and lots of ropes, or chains (for added weight).
3. As for the concrete culvert, same as #1,but in this case, what type of water have been going through the culverts? Low flow rate is worst than fast, since pollutants have more time to adhere to the porous surface/subsurface of the culverts over time.
4. For the vertical structures, you got something going there. Indeed you're crazy, but in a good way. I'll hand this to the pond's engineers and the experienced pond masters.
Leo, I think that is a very good point in regards to #1. I put concrete along my edge for 50-100'. Never thought that it may have soaked up bad stuff. Nothing noticeably bad on my part, but who knows. I think in a past thread, there was something along these lines in regards to recycled pallets too. There is definitely a higher PH next to that concrete area, but soon goes down just a little bit away.
Thanks Leo. I definitely would prefer natural rock vs. concrete but dang it's just not much of an option down here by the beach! I believe the biggest issue will be trying to get "clean" concrete as opposed to that which has say pavement with it.
I guess with the mesquite trees the only thing I really need to do so keep them from all floating to the same end. I believe a t post and wire will do that. My plan was to put them in the intermediate depths of six to eight foot and then do the deeper portion of the lake with my vertical artificial trees.
Billy, if you're willing to risk it using the concrete, it's not a problem. Just be aware of where the concrete has been. Make sure to be extremely mindful of the pH level for the first 5 years. Yep, 5 years. If the concrete get soaked for that long, pH will stabilize out. If the concrete don't get submerged, try 20 years for more.
The best type of concrete to use is damaged and broken concrete materials from the local plants. Do not use any colored concreted. Just plain straight up gray, or the base color of the sand and aggregates that the concrete bonded to.
Make sure to get porous concrete, and not the sealed. The porous have a greater chance to leech out the pollutant on first flush (using garden hose), before introducing into your pond. Sealed concreted may have smaller pores, but the pollutants are trapped at much greater level due to large bonding surfaces within the smaller pores.
Ok one other issue I worry about is disturbing the integrity of the clay bottom. Will the T posts be a threat to creating a leak if the clay is, say only a foot deeper than the bottom? Am I worrying about nothing?
If the bottom under the clay is porous, I wouldn't take the chance of disturbing the clay liner. I'd use cover that had a wide base to support it's vertical height.
Something like this:
If you want it taller, they can be stacked 2 high.
Man I like that. What are the "limbs" made out of? I think my Ida of PVC trees will work if instead of using a t post in the ground, I use a five gallon bucket as a base.
Bill, if you use a bucket, poke holes in the bottom. Then stick a couple of pieces of rebar through before filling with concrete. That should keep it from tipping over.
Bill, if you use a bucket, poke holes in the bottom. Then stick a couple of pieces of rebar through before filling with concrete. That should keep it from tipping over.
Yep that will work. Thanks.
OK not sure why I can only upload an attachment and not a picture but here is the first run of my pvc tree. Believe it or not, I am on a budget! Will this work in the deeper water?
The picture has to be hosted on an on-line site, not from your computer, such as Photobucket or anohter on-line website. There's a tutorial in the archives on how to do it.
Here is what I am planning on putting in the very bottome of the lake. Five of these three bucket trees spaced out. They are ten feet tall when standing straight up. Is the tree idea viable?
Those will not stay standing straight up very long without a wider base.
We tied that first batch together at the top and couldn't pull it over! Maybe hard to tell but the triangular base is about ten foot. Pretty wide. Is it enough structure to benefit bass in deep water?
Oh, it's a tripod! Awesome!
But how will you keep the bottom ends from sliding away from each other?
It looks a little sparse, actually. You could add more branches all the way around.
I think the bottoms will stick in the clay. That is 80lbs of sacrete in each one! Could make sure by tying the buckets together. Yea I might add some real brush to the whole deal to get it thicker.
Now I see the tripod. That ought to work. Instead of separate structures, I like to align stuff like this in a row for a fish highway.
Yes, I have sunk natural cover in my pond in straight lines out from the bank so that as the water level changes the fish can move along with it. They are flagged so that I have easy "casting lanes" between them.
Also, read this:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463
My plan is for these five "pods" to be my deep water structure. I am placing them in the deepest portion of the lake-15'-18' of water. I've got 13 seperate large brush piles already located on drop offs and ledges and have three, 2-culvert pods added as well. Need to add rock piles and pea gravel as well. I have been desperately wanting to have a tropical storm come in to give is some rain but now one is a distinct possibility and I didn't get the brush piles anchored into the lake-ugh. My luck we will have a twelve inch rain and they will all float to one end of the lake! By the way since I have been advised to not puncture the clay liner of the lake my plan is to use three or four bags of sacrete wired to the brush piles to hold them in place. Will that work?
If you are planning on using them as deep cover for fish, will there be O2 down that deep during the time of year you think the fish will be using them?
Well I "think" so. The max depth is 18' but vast majority of the deep stuff is 15'. The tops of these "pods" should be about 9.5' which is 5.5' below the surface. The first branches start at 4.5'. It does get VERY hot. I am guessing that an aeration system would be recommended? Had hoped to not have to use one.
If the pond has water in it now, go check temp in 1' to 2' increments in the deepest part. If you see a 5°F temp drop in a couple of feet, that's where the thermocline is at. Water below it will normally not have enough O2 for a fish. Maybe right below it will, but the lower in the thermocline you go, the less O2 there is.
I'll keep that in mind. Right now the lake is just two weeks old and has no water in it. I am just prepping it with structure.
