As some of you may know, I lost, found, and then broke my old flyrod as I was retrieving it from the pond. I got a new one.

As I was preparing my old reel for the new rod by thoroughly cleaning/lubricating it, and by replacing the backing, I realized I'd forgotten how to tie effective line-to-line knots.

I searched the Web and found a lot of fly fishing sites. I got to reading some of them. Wow. What an eye opening experience. I'm sure glad we have Pond Boss.

I got to reading some of the fly fishing websites and found that what I have been doing for over 50 years is considered sacrilegious. Worms or live bait on a fly rod! Egads! A spinning real on a flyrod -- even worse!

On one site, member after member just beat the heck out of a 15 year old kid who proudly displayed a photo of a 16 inch brook trout he caught in a stream behind his house using a fly rod with a worm -- and, even worse, the kid had the audacity to admitting to eating the fish! These guys were ruthless, and nothing the kid posted did anything by further inflame this crowd.

When I was a pre-teen I couldn't afford a flyrod, but I was given an old fly reel with some floating line. I got a cheap (maybe $0.10, $0.25, $0.50 -- I don't remember) bamboo pole and a cheap set of tin "eyes" for mounting on bamboo poles.

I had a fly rod!

I used it to put crickets, grasshoppers, and even worms in difficult places where I knew bluegill and perch loved to hide. Sometimes I replaced the fly reel with an old open face reel when jigging for crappie.

I guess I better not tell anybody that I was using a fly rod this evening with a worm on a floating jighead. I caught at least a dozen feisty bluegill, two bass, and one 14 inch catfish. It was fun. Most of them jumped out of the water to grab the worm/jig rig. I doubt I would have caught these fish with an artificial fly. Because of the way I've dumped stumps in my pond as cover, there is no way I could drop bait where I needed to, with a spinning rig, without losing dozens of hooks.

Last night I did something similar with grasshoppers and crickets on a #6 bait hook. It was a blast! The fish were just smashing it.

So, how do others feel about using live bait on a fly rod? Is this something that no one should ever admit? I gather it is actually illegal in some places! Sheesh!

To some purists, unless you are tying your own flies, you are are sinner! Those "true sportsmen would most likely treat the use of a worm as a gross miscarriage of the King's law, if not an act of treason! One shudders at the mere thought of such madness.......

Please don't let the true believers know that I plan to try Berkeley's Powerball on trout this weekend with my flyrod and reel. PROMISE?

Okay, I think you get the picture-why not use worms, provided it isn't illegal where you fish? Good luck, and be sure to let us know how it worked for you.

GGB

Boy, I hear you. My first rod was a bamboo cane pole my grandpa gave me. My second rod was a fly rod blank with a spinning reel on it, also my grandpa's. A beating like that on a 15 yo boy is totally uncalled for, and might be enough to put him off fishing for life... PB is a much more reasonable website. And no one here would admonish anyone for eating a fish he caught in his own BOW!!

For the record, I'm a lousy at fly fishing. I've got a lot of respect for anyone, especially for someone just 15 years old, who can catch a fish on a flyrod, and regardless of what was at the end of the rigging.

So it really upsets me when people who most likely consider themselves to be well mannered jump all over this 15 year old who is still learning the sport of fly fishing. Rather sad-I hope someone defended him so he doesn't get discouraged.

GGB

Ken, when we were deer hunting in Wy. we camped on the Greys River. It's a world class fly fishing river. You MUST use artificial flies AND they must be barbless (at least that's what my cousin told me).

Personally, I don't care what/how the fish is caught. If someone asks, just tell them you won't divulge your secret, but you can tell them that you were "matching the hatch".

In a box somewhere around here I have flies that are tied on size 28 and size 30 hooks.

When my grandfather passed away he left me a splint bamboo fly rod. Then a couple of years later at age 12 I fished an old gravel pit with it and had the time of my young life catching bluegills one right after the other. Many decades later the fly rod was setting in my closet missing an eye and unraveling so I threw it away. Years later I was meeting my son in Utah for hiking and fishing and wanted a fly rod. Now that I had a computer I did a search for a fly rod and could not believe how expensive split bamboo rods were. I should have had the rod refurbished but I didn't have a clue of what I really had.

Elitism in it's truest form. All any rod does is present a lure, artificial or natural, to a fish in hope of a bite. I can't understand why anyone would try to lessen the joy of a kid because he didn't adhere to some arbitrary set of rules.

I'm thinking the whole purpose of any rig is to give a person the best opportunity to catch a fish and have the most fun doing it. Sure, I can catch CNBG on my 60 pound braided Dobyns' Mike Long Model jig rod, but it would be no fun. I wouldn't be able to catch a trout doing this, so I wouldn't even try.

I can hammer a nail in with a piece of pipe, and it's still hammering. I'll pass to George to make a definitive response to this, but it seems silly to me.

No excuse for rudeness to a kid.

John, I have an old, no name, split bamboo fly rod. It is missing one eye and I doubt that I will ever use it. It, along with some ancient rods and reels, are stretched across some deer antlers in my sun room. They are garnished with old, some really old, lures. I'll never use any of that stuff but they are certainly not for sale. I like that stuff.

I've seen a lot of people using fly rods as cane poles when crappie fishing in the Spring. Minnows are always the bait of choice. There's not many things more effective than a fly rig when bluegill fishing with crickets.

I love bamboo rods and I've built quite a few of them. I still have my bamboo surf rod that I built 30+ years ago for Striper fishing. They are a pain in the butt to get the guides positioned correctly. But, all homemade rods are a pain to get the guides correctly aligned.

About five years ago I dug out an old jointed cane pole and introduced my Grandson to it. He thought I was nuts to not let him use a traditional rod and reel. A 7 or 8 pound CC took the bait and it splintered the pole. However, it didn't snap in half and he got the cat in. No "modern" rod could have done that. Now he likes them and we sometimes cut green cane and season it. I toss them in the pond for about a month or so to season them. Then hang them straight from the tip for another month to straighten them. I seldom put guides on them but do tie the line along about every 16 inches along the top half of the pole so the entire "rod" takes the pressure of the fishes weight. It's a blast.

Cat, I’ll have to jump in on this one – EVERY fish I have caught in 10+ years from our pond has been on a fly rod – I post many times about pond fly fishing tackle and techniques and usually get ignored – I have just about stopped mentioning pond fly fishing ….. .BUT ….. I have caught ALL these fish on my own hand tied flies, grass hoppers, worms, Stubby Steves, and PELLET Flies…..etc….

Cat, you picked the wrong article to quote – times are changing from the traditional elitist image of a fly fisherman to just a versatile fun way to catch fish.
I have been beat up by the “elitists” but my stuff has been published in several national fly-fishing magazines as well as one Australian.

You can keep a big fly in the “strke zone” longer than a lead weighted lure and catch more fish!

Cat, glad you brought up this subject - I have been very disappointed over PB members ignoring the versatility of using “flies” for pond fishing –

By the way, all fishermen should know how to tie good knots – not just fly fisherman

There you go! That's exactly the answer I was expecting and hoping for from George.

Yeah Al, this subject really gets me fired up - I bought my first fly rod in 1951 while doing geologic field work in the Uinta Basin, Utah - a SouthBend bamboo - caught my first trout on a fly rod from the famous Green River - on GROUND UP HAMBURGER meat.....
Can't do that anymore - have to obey the laws in place wherever you fish!

Link to some of my stuff....
http://midcurrent.com/flies/hooks-the-jig-is-up/

I don't fly fish, but I do admire the ability to cast a miniscule bait a decent distance and still achieve that slow, more natural sink rate....I believe that triggers many a strike as it falls through the water.

I fish primarily from the bank, a lot of times in heavy cover, and there is no room for a flyrod and it's ever-present coils of line at my feet. To that end, I had a custom spinning rod built out of a 7', 3-weight, fly rod blank. I've started experimenting with producing my own jigs on 1/80 and 1/100 oz jigheads, that specifically mimic popular wet flies. The addition of a foam body will slow the sink rate, while the weight if the jighead still allows for respectable distance. Also, I have great success using my ice flies/jigs, and ice plastics with this setup...

I quite shopping at the local Orvis shop years ago 'cause I can't deal with the elitist attitudes. Wonder what the boys there would say if they knew I used a beautiful 3 wt I built myself to cast big ugly poppers with peices of worms dangling from the hook?

They'd probably suggest I go to West Va if I want to fish like that!

This post elicited more negative responses toward the general fly fishing community than I realized … I have more friends in this community than PondBoss - it's a much larger community!
I would suggest anyone wanting to learn to tie fishing knots, go to Google and Youtube for step by step instructions.

Stay off the “snob” sites – most of these guys are fishing with $800.00 fly rods!!!! Don’t get me wrong – I love good equipment – I have 4 Sage rods but built them for 1/4th the MSRP – tied many a fly to trade for components.

Temple Fork Outfitters is a good source for excellent, affordable, high quality, lifetime guarantee – no questions asked fly rods – many of y’all met Brandon Powers of TFO at Arlington PB conferences – Todd Overton is a TFO fishing rod dealer.

If you fish from the bank and can’t fly fish – learn how to side arm roll cast and strip your line into a 5 gal bucket – I could teach you how in 10 minutes!!!!
How long did it take to learn how many fish to stock in your pond and control aquatic vegetation? ….. If you don’t like Orvis, why go there? I don’t either….
Buy a video – buy stuff from Bass Pro or Cabelas – I do……
Learning new stuff is fun...

I got kicked off a bass forum for suggesting fly-fishing for bass – talk about snobs!!!!

Pardon my rant – how many PondBossers don’t even know how to cast a level wind bait casting reel?

I don't know how a level wind baitcasting reel differs from a "regular" baitcasting reel...or even if there IS a difference, as I've never even held a baitcaster in my hands! So I definitely don't know how... I only own, as well as fish, with ultralight gear......Got rid of all my heavier gear years ago when I gave up Bass fishing.

Pardon my ignorance on the subject George, but is there something generally regarded as "wrong" with flyfishing for Bass? As I stated, I don't fly fish so I'm in the dark with the generally accepted do's and don'ts........do some ardent fly anglers really turn up their noses at such an idea? If so, what species do they find permissable?

Just making a point Sparky – there are “snob/elitist” fishermen in all quarters – it cuts both ways …. bass fishermen of the tournament variety are the worst of all – they had a fit when I mentioned fly fishing for bass and I have been fishing conventional gear for bass for all my life … BUT … they can’t cast a fly behind a tree like I can with a fly rod or pick up a fly and cast to a rising fish w/o reeling in all their line – all about versatility and using the proper tackle and techniques.

There is no difference in a level wind bait casting reel or not – you just have to learn to “thumb” the spool to avoid a “birdnest” backlash.

Okay, thanks George!

I love casting flies and fishing with my fly rods. Not very good at it but it sure is fun for numerous species. In my area, pan fishing with float tubes and flyrods has really taken off.

A good friend of mine, who is big into fly fishing, had given me good inputs for my pond designs with regards to fly fishing them. When people come up and have never fished, they all love trying out fly fishing.

As far as the "snob" fly fisherman, IMHO, there is that element in every outdoor sport. My family loves to eat venison and I'm proud to say I shot 2 does last year off my food plots with my bow. Not for management purposes but for the thrill of harvesting with a bow and the table fare. With todays obsession in antler size, I am not even considered a "serious" bow hunter. Oh Well!

I wasn't expecting such a lightning-rod response to my fly rod post.



For anyone who knows George, in person, or from the forum, he is the ultimate gentleman and mentor. He typifies Pond Boss in attitude and action.

[George -- from one of your posts above, about being ignored about fly fishing -- I think it has more to do with being in awe of what you do. You leave us speechless (well, maybe typeless).]

The fish in my newest pond uses George's model for fish and fishing, except because I'm where it gets cold, so I'm using HBG instead of CNBG. My HSB are in a friend's holding pond until the weather cools and I can safely transport them.

I've also adopted the Herman Brother's approach to children, elderly, and the handicapped with this new pond. It is designed for safety, accessibility of heavy vehicles and wheel chairs, and for catching fish by any means that includes fun.

George beat me to it in his last post, but I can use a flyrod in situations I could never fish with a spinning or bait casting outfit. Yet, I like all approaches, it is like the analogy above of using a pipe as a hammer.

With over 60 years of fishing experience, I've always been leery of using bobbers. I feel they scare a lot of fish, and especially fish that are feeding near, or on the water surface.

Without a bobber, I can't get live bait to the fish near the surface, unless I use a flyrod setup. I can make a live redworm or a 1-inch rosey red stay on top of the water with an invisible line (tippet) and a very small piece of foam (like a foam strike indicator on a long #6 crappie wire hook). And, I can pretty precisely put it anywhere from about 10 to 50 feet from shore, like in between branches of a fallen tree -- unless one of the tree fish behind me grabs my hook!

Anyway, I think it looks like the Pond Boss friends have agreed that elitism just doesn't have a place in fishing.

I may join the forum where they beat the fishing spirit out of the young boy, just so I can invite him here to be welcomed to ask questions and post his accomplishments.

Ken

Ken my friend - thank you very much!!!

Wow, its brutal that anyone would treat a kid like that, but it doesn't surprise me.

Uffda. Maybe it is a Minnesota/Garrison Keillor thing (I'm originally from "upnort" on the beautiful white shores -- winter and summer, of Lake Superior).

Where we live now, we have a serious over-abundance of deer. We have Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD)in our county, and lots of special hunting days to take antlerless deer. I helped process 14 deer last season. Eleven were does. I got a "one-pointer" that I thought was a doe. The two bucks were hit by cars and stumbled into the yard of a friend who lives on a busy highway (we lost one front shoulder on each). We have a great group of friends who completely de-bone, remove fat and sinew, cut, grind, and vacuum pack the meat for the local elderly.

I figure that my friends and I are the ones who make "big antlers" available for the trophy hunters. By doing so, we feed a lot of people and keep the herds healthy. It is not unusual to see herds of 25, or more, in my fields and neighboring fields.

My wife works for two good people. They are very successful businessmen with lots of money. They hunt on a game farm very near our farm, in really nice cabins, along with their teenage kids. They shoot trophy deer. That is it. The game farm owner guts the deer and delivers it to a processor. The next time they see the deer, the processor has made it into snacks, sausage, and cuts of meat wrapped in white freezer paper. Each deer costs them at least $2000 - $3000. They give almost all of it away because they don't each much venison. Yet, I feel it is actually good for the local economy, and I get some pretty good snacks and roasts.

Just like fish, or vegetables in the garden, I feel the deer need to be harvested to keep them growing and healthy. I'm glad we have so many seasons from late September into January, where I live. Few take advantage of the archery season, but the black powder season is gaining popularity.

Ken

Life is too short to take anything too seriously. Especially from other people.

As for the young man and related posts, here are a couple of excerpts from that site:

















This particular fishing forum got my blood boiling. This was one of the worst threads, but there were a lot of other really discouraging threads. I searched a number of other sites. There were a lot that weren't a whole lot better.

By the way, I make my own "fly" leaders, terminating in the tippet and hook. My leaders start with 30# or 20# mono, then go to 17# or 12#, and then finalize with 6# or 4# mono before I get to the tippet. I'd forgotten how to tie a "double blood knot." My leaders last for months or years and I only replace the lightest lines or tippets, which are tied with a very simple "surgeon's knot."

Hey -- I resemble that remark. You are welcome to fish my ponds anytime, with this technique, or even with a Sponge Bob fish rod if you bring these guys with you:

"Good breeding consists of concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person."
Mark Twain

"The smaller the mind the greater the conceit."
Aesop

"When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it."
Bernard Bailey

"I see myself capable of arrogance and brutality... That's a fierce thing, to discover within yourself that which you despise the most in others."
George Stevens


Show me an elitist, and I'll show you a loser.

Tom Clancy quotes

This is exactly what I see happening in the whitetail world as well!! I love whitetail management almost as much as fish. I typed almost, this is POND BOSS after all.

I believe this has to be stopped or we will lose all new recruitmnet into the outdoor sports and more importantly, future stewards of the land.

I have talked to lots of kids after hearing they harvested their first whitetail. I remember mine like it was yesterday, 27 years ago. I got 10 yards away from a deer and shot it with a recurve. Heck at 20yds anyone could have caught my arrows they traveled so slow. I truely belive, that experience propelled me into everything outdoors. Farming, fishing,hunting and trapping as a kid is the key first step to becoming a great steward of the land and all the animals that God has provided, IMHO.

And more and more here is what I hear...."It was fun but it was only a 4 pointer, I probably should have waited for a bigger one but I got excited and shot him." Isn't that the whole point...for a kid to be excited!!!!! Excitement and experiencing pride that comes along with self-relience, thats how we get youth back into the outdoor sports and ultimately stewards of the land. Not 140" of antlers.

Holy Cow...Now I'm fired up!

I use a noodle rod in place of a fly rod, there are many similarities but fly rods have small line guides not really conducive to monofilament.

I never really fly fished much as I had no one to teach me nor any real reason for it until I went to college. Then while at college I was surrounded by some of the best trout fishing creeks in the east and a couple friends who were very good fly fisherman to teach me. One would only fish dry flies and was as uppity as it got when it came to fly fishing. The other did what ever worked best to catch fish. Me, I am in the whatever works to catch fish boat. If size 28 dry flies will catch the trout, that's what I will throw. If a live minnow will catch them, that's what I'll throw. Or, sometimes I just like using a certain technique because it is a challenge or something different.

However many of the creeks in PA have fly fishing only sections where you are limited to fly fishing gear and artificial flies that meet certain specifications. When I came back to VA, I continued fly fishing spreading out to mostly panfish like BG. I found BG in public waters were very smart but few had seen fly fishing gear and were much easier to catch on it. Something about a nice sized BG smacking a dry fly. Not quite as exciting as fooling an old trout, but close!

A wild 15" brook trout from a small stream is a RARE fish. I personally wouldn't keep a fish like that. There is a reason I don't open my mouth and share the areas I have found quality wild trout fishing. Wild trout do not have high fecundity and if you start keeping them, you can really hurt their populations quick. Especially in marginal trout habitat. I had no issues keeping and eating piles of stocker and hold over trout while in college and even today. But I have never eaten a wild trout. If it's legal to do, that is your choice... However, I would hope people would educate themselves and be considerate of fish populations that cannot handle harvest very well. I believe the posters on that forum were extremely rude. Have an opinion and educate... Don't be an elitist ass.

Don't even get me started on deer hunting...

What??? They now have rods for noodling? What is wrong with fingers on your hand and sneakers on your feet?

You will never find me diving under the surface of murky water, sticking my hole in dark holes preying a giant catfish bites my hand instead of a snapper, beaver, moccasin or lord knows what else!

+1



I also happen to be a fly fishing heretic.

I like to fly fish with a spinning rod and a casting bubble. It takes me back to my youth when my uncle taught to do this in the Big Horns mountains catching trout when I was a kid. IMO it also much more effcient than using a fly rod, your fly actually spends more time in the water in front of the fish and you can make much longer casts.

Flame suit on!

I'm taking Georges side on this one!

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in being saddened that the young man was being so severely criticised for using a worm on a flyrod. I'd just about bet he wouldn't have been using a worm or harvested that trout if he was fishing in an area where that was illegal. Yes, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I'd guess this young man has someone who has helped him learn right and wrong ways to enjoy the sport of fishing.

For me, it was and is my Dad. I'm very fortunate to be able to fish for bass tomorrow night from my own pond in my backyard and then fish for rainbows from the White River in AR the following afternoon at my Dad's place. I'm humbled by how fortunate I am to be able enjoy the outdoors, and for the fact that my Dad is still here for me to
spend time with him and to continue to learn from him. Niether of us is getting any
younger.

When I can, I try to encourage and help my nephews and nieces learn to fish. I try to just let them enjoy themselves and not get hung up on style. Sometimes I have laugh at how little I actually get to fish when I'm helping them, as it reminds me of how my Dad spent most of the time helping my brothers and me get untangled on our first trip to Minnesota in the 1960's when us kids were just learning to fish using cloth line and open face reels! (The next year Dad bought us all Zebco 202's, and I think he got to
fish a little more that year!).

It's great to know that so many good folks here appreciate fly fishing for bass. I have an old friend I don't get to see very often anyore who started fly fishing for bass on farm ponds about 8 or 10 years ago. I'm hoping to get him up to my place sometime soon to help me learn more. That is my next challenge, and from watching my pond in the evenings, it should be a lot of fun. And that is the point to me-fishing should be fun. Catching just makes it better!

GGB

Travis, what the dickens is a noodling rod?

Never mind. I found it.

How long is the one you have?

Dave and Travis, here is the lastest and greatest pseudo cane pole:
http://www.tenkarausa.com/index.php?cPath=22

Tenkara rods are ideal for mountain stream fly fishing and for catching smaller fish such as bluegill or smallmouth. Tenkara rods are ultra lightweight, very portable, telescoping into a mere 20 inches, and thus excellent for backpacking. At eleven to over fourteen feet long, all tenkara rods shine when fishing in mountain streams and their simplicity is a huge draw for other places too.

Although we want to keep our lineup simple, we thought anglers would benefit from a good selection of rods to fit their needs.
You may watch this 7 minute video for a walk-through of our tenkara rod models. And, here's a chart to help assist in selecting your tenkara rod.

Quick suggestions: If in doubt, get the 12ft Iwana, a great all arounder. The 13ft Ayu for average and relatively open stream and desire for a softer rod. 13ft-14ft7in Ito is our premium rod and an excellent tenkara rod for more open mountain streams. The 11ft Iwana is good for tighter streams with lots of trees overhead. The 12ft Yamame and 13ft6inches Amago are good options if you constantly catch fish over 17inches or bass.

I have three, 1 is 8', 1 is 9' and 1 is 10'. My favorite use for them these days is using ultra light line to fight larger fish. However, with a new born I am not doing much of any fish fighting as of lately. HAHA

Interesting rods George... They remind me of what a lot of the guys who do the micro fishing are using.

I'm having video problems on my PC so can't see the YouTube videos on the tenkara site. Some videos work and others don't.

However, I just don't see me spending around $150.00 for a telescoping fishing pole. The noodling poles are a lot more affordable.