I have been going back and fourth on weather or not a well to assist keeping my pond at full pool is worth the investment? My pond is about 3 years old 3/4 acre 9'-14' average (depending on time of year) dug in sandy loam with a fair amount of clay. The pond holds water pretty well but by fall I am down about 3'-4' every year. Typically late October rains bring me back up a foot or two and they by spring I am back at full pool to do it all over again. Overall i really cannot complain considering what some others are dealing with. I have been tossing around digging a well for two years but think I may make the plunge in the spring. The kicker is to get the water I need (20-25 GPM) I need to go down 340' so i am looking at a $7500 investment. It seems to me I should be able to keep the pond at full pool with the additon of the well but others have told me I am "pissing in the wind". It seems to me since the pond holds water pretty well with 20 gpm of incoming water I should be able to keep the level up? Any thoughts?

I am glad that we overdid our dam and sealing. Our 1.3 acre pond is down 12 inches in one of the worst droughts we have had. Neighbor's ponds are at least 3' low - most much lower. Friends thought I was a bit nuts to spend so much money on this small pond, but I am happy with the results. It is sealed like a swimming pool.

I don't think you can "guarantee water." Therefore, a dry hole is a possibility. On the other hand, one of the nice things about a well is the ability to irrigate with "unmetered" water. Also, govt. regs. may soon negate the ability to drill one.

Just part of the thought process for you to weigh. Good luck.

good point. I am not to worried about getting water at that depth. My surrounding neighbors all have great water right about 300'. My concern is being able to keep the pond at full pool with the addition of the well. The few drillers i have talked to said at 300' i can pull as much water as i want without any problems.

Sounds good. Then have them put their money where their mouth is on the contract; i.e. no water=no money.

good thought......

I originally bought my fish years ago at Aquatic Control in Seymour, IN but now they just do pond management I believe. But what intrigued me was they had one pond that was dug down to surface water and from that water they pumped water to all of their other ponds.

It is pretty hard not to hit water in Michigan, unless the well driller is an idiot.

The only reg's I know of right now, is if you pump 75gpm for 30 days you have to report your water usage to the state along with a hundred bucks so they can process the data. Not sure how or if that applies to residential use.

They also tried to get a well tax through. Every well owner had to have a meter installed and would be taxed on how much water they used. Glad that one failed!

Our township only allows one well on your property unless you are zoned agricultural. There are ways around that one tho. Neighbor had two wells and they made him decommission the one that was not supplying his house. He should have kept his mouth shut. Heck, up until last year, you could not even have chickens. City jerks running country townships

I would also look into shallower wells, ones that you can drive yourself. 20gpm may be possible.

7500.00 for a 300 foot well is a pretty good price. 12 years ago, my sister paid 8K for a 180 foot well. My dad was just quoted 4500.00 for a 60 foot well. You need to find a reputable well driller.

Around here the price of the well not only includes the actual drilling, but the pump, wiring, bladder tank and the plumbing needed to connect it up to the house. Plus clean-up of the site. Going to a variable speed well pump would have bumped my 3K price tag by another 1K and that's for a well that was drilled in sand, 66' deep.

There are other options:

http://www.deeprock.com/Specials/Special.aspx?SI=13

They'll send out a free DVD I believe.

When I was in the army early 50's I had a buddy that helped his dad drive a well with a point with filter, pipe and sledge hammer for their new built home. That was the first I ever heard of that kind of well. In the 60's I helped a friend drill a well where the point had a twist auger point and two of us push on arms extended from the pipe to put the well in. He had all the water he needed for his family. I had another friend who's dad dug a well about 3 foot in dia and lined it with mortared rocks. That looks very dangerous but these type of wells are possible.

for what its worth im in louisiana, a long way from you. i had a well drilled and it cost me about $7,000.00, but i dont have to worry about my pond. I originally dug it at about 1 acre, then before pond boss i stocked per the hatchery's guidlines. needless to say im very overstocked, so i dug another acre and a half to try and give the fish room to grow. if i wouldn't have done the well i would have lost everything, it has been running steady for 7 months just to maintain the water level. i dont know if ill ever be able to turn it off but it only costs me about $100.00 a month for a well that keeps my pond at full pool, worth it to me many times fold.

guess i got lucky.
I found a pump on Craigslist , Sta-Rite 50 or 60 GPM , all stainless , never used. in box and all.
Found a well guy that came and drilled for me to 180 feet, and installed the pump. $ 2000 , cash of course. But it was a great deal.
Most of the drillers that i found , would not install my pump that i had bought , and would only offer 20 to 30 GPM pumps.

Wells are seldom the answer to pond problems. One acre ft of water is 326,000 gallons of water. Just one inch over an acre is about 27,000 gallons. Think about just how effective a well has to be to make a difference. Calculate the cost of electricity.

BTW, that one acre foot weighs 2.718 million pounds.

NOTE: That statistic and lots more money saving pieces of info are in Lusks book "Perfect Pond...Want One?".

Big brando 105, I'll tell you about my 3/4 acre pond and using a well with a 20 gpm pump. I irrigate my 2 acre lawn so I pull alot of water from the pond to water the lawn.I can see the drop in water after irrigation of the lawn. I have had no problems keeping the pond full with the small pump. Dave Davidson states "wells are seldom the answer to pond problems" and I would think he is correct. However if you are not leaking water from your pond like myself then you don't have a problem.I put around 40,000 gallons of water on my lawn per week (when not raining) which runs my pump for about 36 hrs.I have not calculated the cost of running my pump but, the seldom amount I have to use it and the enjoyment I get from a green lawn doesn't matter to me in regards to the small amount (to me) per year in electricity I use. I sure don't consider it an investment...It's a luxury for me.Just thought you might want my results.

Wow, irrigate a lawn. I never understood this... I get annoyed in the summer when the weeds continue to grow but the grass stops and I still have to mow :-(. However I cultivate my weeds since they are far more interesting than grass. Example: we can harvest native strawberries from the lawn in June for breakfast, and Asters in the fall. I guess I am a lazy naturalist ;-).

I suppose if you live in a hot climate, that is the only way to keep your lawn around and usable. I don't hold it against you at all, it is probably beautiful where my lawn looks "interesting".

On the other note of wells, isn't there concern for effecting the water table of your own drinking well or your neighbor's well by pumping so much water out of the ground? I would hate to think that you may potentially effect someone's well-being trying to keep a pond topped-off. There is only so much gazinda and gazouta to go around.

I used to have friends that lived in Saratoga, IN when Campbell Soup had a vegetable processing factory there. Campbell used so much water in the processing of their veggies that the water table would drop and wells would go dry in town.

In our droughty area, having a well was the difference between having a pond and not having a pond. We saved the pond, the fish, THE VIEW, the ducks and a plethora of other wildlife with it. We also irrigate the grass and house foundation with it; without taking from the pond which is really counter productive in a drought. It's the best investment we have made to date on the property.

Oh, and the water bill from our "town" water went from $75-$80 per month to $25. With the increased electricity use, it's about a wash.

Let me chime in with my $.02 worth. I guess the key factor is how well your pond holds water. Because of the drought last summer my 1/2 acre pond dried up by Aug., I cleaned it out, modified it a little, added structure and drilled a well. It is 325', produces 42 gpm, however I couldn't afford that big of pump so I ended up with an 18 gpm pump, it pumps about 26K gpd., I filled the pond in about a month with a lot of help from mother nature this winter, and have noticed since that my evaporation/leakage is about 1/4" per day. Based on 27k gals. per acre Inch I loose about 6750 gals. a day. Since I pump almost 26K in 24 hrs., I can refill my pond running the well 12 hrs. every other day. !2 hrs. on the pump costs about $2.25, times 15 days is about $34.00 a month on a small 18 gpm pump. I think ya'll would agree to spend that to keep your pool full. I realize that these numbers will vary with weather, humidity, etc., but I think having that much water available is worth many times the cost. My well cost $7200.00 including pump installation. The other benefit is I have un-limited water for irrigation, (3 acre lawn and garden) that cost last year $175.00 a month from the local water supply. Doesn't take long to pay back the well cost at those numbers.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is you really don't need 30-60 gpm. to top-off and maintain a pond unless you are loosing a lot of water or you have a really big pond. My pump will put out 26K a day, that is average evap./leakage in a 4 acre pond (@ 1/4" day). So for those with avg. size ponds, 1/2 to 2 acres, this size well works great for a reasonable cost. And least we not forget that here in hot country the cooling effect of fresh water is a plus.

Thanks for bearing with me, I think this information is valuable if you are considering a well...........Budster

I've been looking into a well and have contacted two local drillers. Both are around the 8-9k range for 240 ft well @ 12gpm. One says I can pipe the well water right to the pond and the other says you need to oxygenate the water or you will kill the fish. Can the group here help educate me? Can you run a fountain off the line and will that suffice?

How large is your pond? How deep? Do you aerate?

The oxygenation issue sounds bogus, unless perhaps you have a very small pond.

Fountains are pretty, but not the best for aeration/oxygenation.

Budster....I don't know a thing about wells, but my some of
my neighbors tell me "nobody has had any luck drilling a well" near
my new property. Were you happy with the company you used?
My property is in Wills Point.

I am talking with the water utilities and they say the meters will
be $3500 each and I am going to need three meters, plus the trench
digger may end up costing $8K....so I am nearing $20K to get water.
Of course that has me thinking about a well. Are there some areas in
East Texas that a well is just not cost practical or is does it have
a lot to do with the competency of the well digging company?

1/2 acre and the deepest is 17 ft. I currently don't aerate.

Groundwater (i.e. well water) usually doesn't have enough O2 to support fish, and it might have other harmful gasses in it. By running the water thru a stacked column like Cecil does, it removes the bad and adds O2.

Do any of your neighbors have a well? If so, try and find out who drilled it.

There are only 2 drillers in the area and one of them drilled our well 12 years ago (original owner).

Is there a link to Cecil's setup?

My usual fountain advice: Fountains are like race horses and beauty contest winners. They are pretty to look at, expensive to buy, can be expensive to maintain and don't do a lick of work.

Try an aeration system.

Zep, I had a dowser/water witch "find" water on my place. It works but I certainly can't do it.

I only get about 1/10 gpm but it does that 24 hrs per day into a 2,500 gallon storage tank. Certainly not enough to use for a pond but since we can time my Wifes showers by the calendar instead of the clock, it suffices.

Thanks Dave. The well would be for a small cabin not the pond, but I must admit I enjoy long warm showers. So what does it cost to use a "witch" and I suppose the "witch" is separate entity from the well digging company? And well digging companies are cool with following the witch advice? Do you know how many GPM a typical house needs to have a nice comfortable good pressure shower?

Aeration is a good idea, but so is the well. In the regulation crazy country we live in you soon won't be able to drill a well. Also if you suffer thru a drought like we had last year, your pond will be gone or severely damaged without a well. Good luck.

Sniper....it is getting crazy. I am moving my office and was told yesterday by a builder and the mgt company that I can no longer choose standard/typical light switches in the new space. They have to be motion detector light switches which are more expensive and really don't work all that well. They said they have had lots of complaints about people sitting at their desks for long periods and the room light goes out. They need to just assign a gvt worker to each and every one of us to hold our hand for every decision we make in life!

Dowser's best friend ....

Zep, one of my drillers uses a guy who can "witch" for water and they came out at no charge and gave me an idea of where they think water is at. And if they find a dry hole, there is no charge; they will drill again. Interesting fact about the other driller; he don't use witcher and just drills, but if he get a dry hole then he charges you 10 per foot (average 2k) for each dry hole. A neighbor up the road a mile, had 2 dry holes. OUCH!

In the end, I know I won't use him even though he apparently dug the original well on our property.

I say if you can afford to have the well drilled, then do it. As others have said, with the regulation crazy world we are living in, you never know when a moratorium on will drilling could be put in place.

As for the aeration issue, my two acre pond is filled solely by a well. There is no run-off or ground water flow into the pond. The well can raise the water level between 1 1/2 and 2 inches in a 24 hour period. The water comes out of a 6 inch pipe, falls about three feet onto a broken pile of concrete, and flows into the pond. I did this to help oxygenate the ground water as it enters the pond. Does it work? I have never had a fish kill as a result of pumping water into the pond. I usually run the well for three consecutive days every month or every other month in the spring, summer, and fall (ice-out to freeze up).

Nebucks that is good information to know. If I go forward with the well. it will be about 30-40 ft away from the pond so I was thinking of creating a a stream of rocks (20 ft or so) for the water to flow over before it hits the pond. That should help oxygenate it enough before it hits the water.

Nebucks how many GPM are you pumping? My rough calculations are about 60 GPM?

You know, I am ashamed to admit this, but I don't really know. I will do some checking when I get home from work and let you know. I do know that the flow coming out will knock a 240 lbs person on his rear end.

Sounds like a great way to get rid of salesmen!

Zep, I checked around and found a guy who could witch. He did it for no charge. This was after a crooked driller drilled 2 supposedly dry holes.

Expect the drilling company to ask where you want the hole to be drilled.

Not so George, I have seen it done, on my place and elsewhere with a forked willow branch. The downward pull was so hard that the bark was breaking on the stick. Then I touched the stick and it ended. He could do it again but I couldn't and can't. Scientific? No. Explainable? NO. Did it work? Yes.

thats pretty neat Dave
learn something every day

i am gonna do some more asking around in
the area to see if anybody has a well

My answer would be where there's water......

A buddy showed me how he witched with 2 bent coathangers. He did it, then had me do the same thing. They did the same thing in my hands as they did in his and it was really, really eerie!

I've tried it several times and been hugely unsuccessful. One time I was using a couple of bent brass brazing rods. As I walked along one of them swung. Only one. I questioned whether it was a fluke. When I went back over the place nothing happened. However I contacted a buddy that can dowse. He got a forked stick and it did pull down noticeably at the spot. He got me to try it and nothing happened. Then he did it and got me to put both hands on the wood. It stopped pulling down. Some can do it and others can't. I can't.

IIRC, pro geologist Dave in El Dorado Calif, posted drilling a 300ft dry hole, location staked by a water witcher?

I just wonder what the % of dry holes for either oil or water would be if we could compare dowsers to geologists.

Hydrologists have the edge Dave - me and DIED are rock knockers!!!

Well, in your case I guess that is an incurable affliction.

I heard that. When we had a place in the Kerrville area of Hill Country, just the "permit" to drill a well was $400. Who knows what it is today.

Never hear the phrase "never say never"?

Well I decided to go forward with the well and I was going to go with the guy who brought out guy who "witched" where to drill. Needless to say after 3 weeks and one excuse after another ( and lying to me) I fired him from the project and had to go back to the other driller that I wasn't going to use with my tail between my legs. They graciously were willing to take my money (surprise) and just today finished drilling it.

The good news is they found water @ the 160ft mark and it will produce 25 GPM, even better than my house well. So once we get power out to it, we can start filling the pond back up.

So much for the cheaper guy.......

Good for you, Bossone. In the end you got what you wanted.
I'm thinking about a well too, and talked to a local. He's well respected and
is quoting about $10/ft and wants to go 200'. By the time I get electricity, and pump,
etc, I'm guessing that it'll cost me close to $5k. Is that "in the ballpark"?
I've got someone coming tomorrow to replace my compressor (someone took it, and I've had no AC this year), and do some HVAC work and that's going to cost $4k. The well is going to have to wait. I hate to spend that money and not have any going toward my little pond.

Congrats on the well, I still cannot get someone out to my place and even think about drilling a well.

The driller that I used for my place, and who also is very well known in this area is flat out too busy. I have to do some searching for another driller. The local lake is having sewers put in, and that allows wells to be drilled where none were allowed before. Last time I talked to his wife, he was putting in on average, 2 a day. She also said she didn't know if he could drill one as large as needed, but when I talked to him earlier, he never said that. Personally, I think he's making more per hour doing the smaller 4" projects.

But, business is business and I'll continue to look.

The driller I am using is running 2 units and still 2 weeks out. I should find out today when they will hook up the pump etc.

Those of you with wells to feed your pond; how are you running the water into your ponds? Straight into the pond? Over rocks? Spraying in the air? Any pictures would be nice

Also how did you set it up to keep it from freezing in the winter months. I'm struggling to come up with a simple solution, given I'm going to have a strong flow/pressure as the water exits the 1 1/4 pipe.

If you never shut it off, it'll never freeze.

With all the flow you have you shouldn't need to run it in the winter. Give you a chance to recover on the electric bills.

Have you given up on the stream idea? If I ever get a well I want to do two things, have a smaller cement pond (raise trout in it) and a stream/waterfall coming from the cement pond to the bigger pond.

To elaborate on this statement. May just want to run the lines below the frost line. Hit an expansion chamber of sorts where the warmer water collects prior to going in the pond.

I had a well drilled about two weeks ago. Still waiting for plumber to install a 50 gpm pump. I was considering going the same route of some type of trout pond ahead of main pond, with overflow being part of a waterfall. Any ideas on what size of pond this type of flow could support as far as water temps?

Well I don't need to run it all the time, so I'm not going to run it in the winter. Either I do a stream, but getting it to look somewhat natural is th key. Even then you have to bring the water to the surface, so wouldn't you have some risk in it freezing, unless it drained back down.

Otherwise I would put it under the frost line, but then that puts the water comin in below the waterline and just directly in the pond. Is that how others do this?

Maybe I'm making this harder than I should?

I am planning a similar project. I hope to run the line below frost and then come up and dump it into a much larger pipe that is buried into soil so it will have some freeze protection. The large pipe would run through stones placed to hide the end of the pipe, and the water would run over some smaller stones for a short distance to simulate a stream. I also do not know how to calculate a trout pond size from the GPM flow from a well in my area (especially to account for 100+ temps).

Run the inflow pipe below the frost line so it doesn't freeze. Bring it into the pond below where the pond will freeze. Make a 90° up, and drill a 1/4" hole in the elbow. Bring the pipe up above the pond surface and figure out how you want to end it to add O2. During the winter, move your shallow wintertime aeration diffuser close to where the water enters the pond to keep that area ice free. Drilling the hole allows the water to flow back into the pond so the water in the pipe is at pond level when the power is off.

One more reason to have an aeration system.....

For a general idea. Check out Cecil's trout pond. (someone will have to find links to it) IIRC, his well produces 45gpm of near 50 degree water. It would be a good reference without getting into a bunch of crazy math.

What ya getting for a well pump?

For grins and giggles, ask your plumber about inverter controlled systems. They may use other terminology on the residential side of life, but essentially, it is a variable frequency controlled system.

The right system (with some egghead work) could save you a boat load of cash in utility expenses. A bit more cash up front, but the payback would be sweet! Some utility companies also offer rebates for customers installing such systems.

It's also called a variable speed well pump. My driller told me about it, but he said that they were sensitive to lightening, and didn't recommend it - but that was 4 years ago. The price premium for that system was another thou$and, about a 30% increase over the fixed speed.

My driller did everything from start to finish - drill the well, install the pump, plumb the pump into the system, and hook everything up to electric.

As long as everything is properly bonded to ground, and a good ground, lightening should not be a problem. We have had a number of systems take hit's and not skip a beat. (non residential)

I really have not found anything in the residential realm that would be worth spending money on tho.

They also do funky things with motors and controllers. Probably due to the fact that they are 20 years late to the party

I revamped the electric service to the property a few years ago. Everything is bonded, and there's at least 2, possibly 3 ground rods in the system. One right at the meter/disconnect, but there's also a breaker box for the well there too, and IIRC 2 at the house.

Still would love to see pictures of how people handle the water entering the pond.