Got 100+ pics of this amazing creature today in broad daylight today, I'll probably post more pics later.





I feel now more than ever just plain fortunate to get the opportunity to watch a wild black jaguar for much of an hour, just hanging out on the dam of our rec/broodfish pond. We estimate it weighed around 50 lbs...just a guess.

HAHA, it's like all the mountain lions they keep seeing here in the east! Don't tell the authorities or they may shut you down to protect such a rare cat!

No I did not shoot it. Don't ask why. Shot it with the camera.

I like cats too.

I predict positive posts from Dwight, Tan, Hardrock, Koko, and Joe

It is a pretty awesome creature

Holy Crap!

the people at http://www.cryptomundo.com/ would go nuts with excitement if they knew about this.

That is awesome!

I. Am gullible.

It's amazing how big a house cat can look.

Ditto!

Just Rolled in the Sand

Checkin Out the Water

My wife wrestles longtailed Bobcats in her spare time.



OK we've waited long enough, come clean.

Black jaguar

AP, is that one of those Main Coon cats? Those things are HUGE!

Yeah that's our 19lb. Bobcat, he loves people and even tolerates my daughters Boston Terrier when she comes over.
He wasn't too happy though when my nephew came up with his 2 black labs.

Hey! That jaguar really gets around. Here is a picture of him at my pond last summer.



He might look small in the picture, but that is due to the wide angle lens on my game camera. He is also a little small for his size.

You sure that's not one of the black mountain lions everyone claims are here in the tri-state area Ken? That one looks to be a solid 100 pounds! HAHA

Maybe he lost some weight on his walk up from Texas.

Everything is bigger in Texas, housecats included......

You should have had Techno-Viking go mano-a-mano with the panther.

Todd, did you get a pic of his paw prints? There are rumors of one just like that around me but no picture proof yet. Beautiful creature.

Maybe it's not a jaguar, I'm open to that possibility, sure doesn't have the broad nose like an adult jaguar in most of the internet pics that I find, including the one that CJBS posted. Maybe it's a young jaguar or even a black panther, either way I will never believe that it was a house cat.

We looked for some good prints but didn't find any.

Todd, please don't take offense at us funnin ya, with all the pranksters on here it's hard to tell, especially you guy's from Texas.

Last night I dreamt about a black jaguar. It was a bit bigger than the feline in your pics Todd and very impressive to watch plucking fish from a pond. I guess thats what happens when reading this before going to bed after the bball games.

if that is just a plain ole black housecat, it has been seriously gorging on your high protein fish food.

My money is on it being a black domesticated house cat. I'd say it's in the 10-15 pound range. Animals often look bigger than they really are. A good way to really gauge how big it was is to stand where you took the pictures and then take something of known size and place it where the cat was seen while taking the pictures. Take a picture of that item and compare. Often times you will go wow, that thing was much smaller than I thought. I do that a lot with bobcats I get on game camera that I think are big. I put a 8.5" by 11" piece of paper on a stake in front of the game camera in the same spot where the cat was and have it take a photo. When you look at the two photos, one of the unknown cat and then of the paper, you can get a pretty good idea just how big the cat is. I often find that bobcat I thought was 40 pounds turns out to be a more commonly sized 20 pounder...

If it is a black jaguar, you should play the lottery as they are rare in the Amazon where the more common color is fairly common. The black color phase is almost unheard of in the subspecies that is found along the Texas/Mexico border.

If it's a black mountain lion/puma/catamount etc, then it is a first. There has never been a documented melanistic mountain lion ever.

I have seen domestic cat / bobcat croses that look just about that size. That looks a little big to me for a house cat based on surroundings. But as noted its hard to be sure.

My dog Luna sometimes thinks she is a ferocious animal while perched atop a snow or dirt pile She IS black.

Some info.

http://www.fws.gov/floridapanther/panther_faq.html

We do have some Cougars up here, but would probably be hard to get a pic.

We have a number of cougars down here, too. Oddly, they enjoy getting their picture taken.

I love those kinds of cougars... They come in all hair colors, not just black.

You still getting married this year?

I knew I should have never mentioned Cougar

Maybe not now... HAHA

Body proportions are all wrong for a jaguar or black cougar, both young and adult. Size is almost impossible to gage at distance with no objects of a knows size. Pictures are not much help either. No shame in that at all.

A fellow I know saw what he thought was a house cat coming down his gravel driveway. When it got about 50 feet from him, he saw it was a bobcat, and a big one.

There is only one way to know for certain Todd. Put on your ghillie suit and lay waiting in the grass. When the mysterious cat comes near then spring up and put the patented Overton Submission Choke Hold on the feline and choke it into submission. Weigh it, measure it, take photos of it, collect some DNA samples and turn it loose.

It looks to me like a Texas sized house cat - isn't everything bigger in Texas?

The darn things keep showing up around here, too.

My Dad caught this Jaguar in 1954.

Here's dad and his prized Jaguar somewhere in gold country California...



This is one of my most favorite photos of my father.

Google Jaguarundi.

I believe that may be what you saw. I have also seen one south of San Antonio. Local TP&W biologist denied that they exist in Texas, except on the border. Local game warden, however, said that he and other wardens have seen the cat up close that we saw, and confirmed it to be a jaguarundi. He told me that there have been many sightings across the state, including East Texas. There are several color variations, including black. Medium sized cat, long tail, small feet, small face.

Your local TP&W biologist might be very interested in your pictures. Ours wanted pictures and seemed genuinely interested in confirming their existance throughout the state.

However, they are federally protected. You might not want to officially announce that you have a federally protected species on your property. Texas pond owners would hate to see your land use limited by the feds to taking pictures of and feeding fish to a protected jaguarundi.

JHAP - Your dad was a motor head too. That is why we both turned out so great!

You got that right Dwight!

JHAP, love your dad's socks. I wear those when I stroll the beach.
People are always smiling and pointing. I've got it goin' on!!!

Do you have the argyle speedo to go with them?

Use a potato...it drives cougars wild
(remember to put it in the front side this time)

I am not aware of a black phase for the jaguarundi. There is a red and gray phase though. Perhaps a very dark gray may occur that looks black? There is also the ocelot another feline that is found along the Texas/Mexico border but it has no black phase and looks much like a miniature normal colored jaguar.

That is an impressive knowledge bank, CJ. Seriously.
Did you know all those facts right outta your memory banks from school?

I've always been a big fan of wild North American cats so I payed a little more attention to them when we studied them in mammalogy.

What a disappointment, all this time I thought mammalogy was the study of mammaries.

You must have a lot better memory than me CJ, I've forgot most of the stuff I learned in college.

I'll be 30 this July, college wasn't too distant in the past. All the calculus and organic chemistry was long ago forgotten though.

i'm 30 next saturday....props to the class of 98.

weird march 27th 1980 fact: I was born @ 8:32 am, mt st helens first eruption 8:34.

Also the shoelace was invented in 1790, and the US navy was formed in 1794.

50 lbs is really small for a jaguar(maybe it is a young one). But it is really too big for a feral cat. Are there melanotic versions of ocelots or wildcats?

Layton, how've you been?

I think the Techno Viking is pulling a fast one.

In agreement: likely not a jaguar after all.
Argument: not at all a house cat, and due to the skeptical pressure and resulting frustration, we will have to take some additional reference photos with an animal of known size, in the same place, from the same vantage point, at the same zoom level. Stay tuned...

After much thought, my current opinion is that this is another one of the black wild cats that hundreds of people in East Texas and throughout the country claim to have witnessed but never had an opportunity to capture on camera. So I will hold off on suggesting what this cat actually is, but I feel sure about what it is NOT.

Calling Dan VanSchaik...

Todd, that thing may be one whopper of a feral cat. I've heard stories of black wild cats in East Texas but, like you say, never seen a picture. Reference points would be great.

I don't think Dan checks in her very often. You may have to EMail him and ask him to look. From PB mag: danvtx@verizon.net or 903-821-7054.

Extraordinary findings often demand extraordinary evidence.

Could have killed the cat..........

Left a message with Dan VanSchaik

Todd:

In that 2nd pic that you just posted, with the cat laying down in the road, that should give you a good estimate on it's size. Head to tail covers about 1/2 of the road width. Measure that area to get an idea of length.

That's a good idea.

That's what I was trying to reference when I was showing the pics to my wife, who don't believe it's anymore more than a house cat.

The road, grassline to grassline, is 8'.

Good idea. I would guess it is more like 1/3 or so of the road width. Only way to be sure is to collect some DNA through some Scat, Hair, etc... and have it tested. May have to go to an independent lab, but your state may be interested and do the testing.

I have a black panther style house cat that weighs 12lbs (I just weighed her myself) and measures 29"max from nose to end of tail. Now anybody suggest a method for extrapolation or estimation of the weight of the cat in the pics?

Go all Ninja on it and photograph it next to a beaver carcass of known dimensions.

Good Idea. The cat in the photo's is not an APEX predator. No Muscle mass. Even a small Jag. or Puma would be really built. Too scrawny to be what you think it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar

The cat in the pics has different proportions than a house cat, bigger build, etc, although not as muscular as a leopard or cougar.

My guess is the cat is 40 inches and 25 lbs. Roughly twice the size of your house cat.

Thanks for that. Also I must point out that the proportions of this wild cat are not simply a scaled-up version of a house-cat IMO. Specifically the rear end of this cat is higher than the shoulder height. Also the tail is longer, with respect to body length, than my "black panther" house cat.

Right now I'm leanin' towards Hybrid or Unclassified species...

I was putting it close to that. Thinking just a tad smaller.

Felis catus is phenotypically very plastic (like domestic dogs). This does not mean this is a house cat, but if the pictures are reasonable proof that this is likely a non-domestic cat species, a local mammalian zoologist should be able to conclude this better than us. While unlikely, this could also be one of the trendy new domestic-wild hybrids that are being sold for very high prices. Due to the cost, I would guess most owners would not let them wander. Let us know what a mammalian taxonomist thinks of the photos.

Whatever it is, it is defiantly an anomaly. See what you can get on it.

"Todd Discovers new Feline", Great Headline! Just try to find out.

BTW, What really happened last Halloween? I assume that "Eye of Newt" was not in the formal discussions

This High Plains Black Panther-Feral cross was sitting on our deck this morning.

Totally Ferocious. That should be photochopped with a Lilliputian dangling and other parts quite obscure a bit below.

Then this thread could be a horror/thriller

Todd, definately not a black panther (dark melanistic phase of cougar) or black jag (dark melanistic phase of jaguar). Even immatures of both are 80-100lbs. Both have been documented in South Texas, but not for many years. However, your cat has a higher rump and longer tail than typical feral domestics...very interesting. Hair on your cat is too long to be a dark phase of any regional wild cat; maybe a hybrid?
I would live trap him using sardines and take a closer look.

Dan VS

Todd, can you get a close up picture of the footprints?

http://www.arkive.org/jaguarundi/puma-yagouaroundi/image-G40906.html

Lots of talk of these in TX and Florida too.
Seems likely to me.

Those wild cat/domestic cat hybrids often cost in excess of $5000. The biggest domestic cat I have ever seen was this cat I got on game camera a couple years back.

We looked for prints but found none. Was sugar-sand and hard-packed clay below.

I love this photo and can see why it is one of your favs JHAP!

All tomcats have long, graceful tails. Several breeds are prized for long back legs reminiscent of a cougar.

Todd I just told Pam about the cat on your property and her first response was concern for the safety of your children! Sorry I was just curious as to what it was

I work outside. I see wildlife all the time, seriously. My eyes are 20/20 lazervision corrected. I don't make a habit of trying to inflate the truth about anything, but I likely did this time. I'm backing down from estimating 50+lbs but not below 30lbs for the time being. Anyway, my original guess on this cat was 30 lbs. Later I was persuaded by others that it was 50+lbs, after hundreds of pics had been taken, we were all convinced that this was an incredible moment in time, something we had never laid eyes on. We'll probably never see it again. A pack of 8 wild dogs showed up right at that same spot that evening....how random is that?? Anyway I am more worried about those wild dogs than I am of that cat. If I see it again, however, I may be compelled to pull the trigger, who knows.

We intend to show a few more photos of the cat and we intend to take my 4month old puppy (40lbs already) down to the site along with a 5gal bucket and a grown man. Should be revealing. Will be using same camera same zoom. I think my puppy is about the same size of that cat, and so does my wife who also saw the cat first hand. Stay tuned...

If this is a house cat, then I should be even more excited!...I may possibly have witnessed the largest house cat on record, and possibly the baddest of them all as well. If this is what I am forced to concede then I guess I'll be posting my story at hugehousecatsforum.com instead.

Todd, I'd be more concerned about the dogs than the cat in regards to children (and people).

I've a problem with stray/wild dogs as well, and now I'm seeing coyotes too. I guess that I'll have to re-dye the traps and get busy.

I hope that you don't "pull the trigger" on that cat. What if it is something really special and rare? Pulling that trigger will ensure that nobody else will ever see this rare product of nature again either. An animal rights proponent I am not but I do enjoy experiencing the wonders that nature provides.

overtonfisheries - Please do not get frustrated. While I am a sceptic, I recall reporting a bobcat sighting to the Indiana DNR and them telling me to get pictures of prints next to a coin as proof. There were no prints. Years later, as the sightings continued, including those by DNR employees, caused them to call me for a database that they had established to track bobcat sightings. The dramatic success of the introduction program apparently surprised the DNR, so they initially doubted my sighting. One naturally doubts unusual sightings without solid proof. Your photos certainly should require the experts to offer an alternative explanation. What are the officials saying about the photos? By the way, I never regret leaving the bobcat alone, even though I was bow hunting at the time, and the cat walked right under me, and chased a squirrel up a tree less than 30 feet away. I have not seen the cat again, but I am glad that I caused it no harm.

I dont think its a house cat at all. I would say 30 lbs is about right.

As the resident dopey city slicker, I gotta ask...
Is it possible for a pure bred jaguar or bobcat or lynx or similar to mate with an ordinary house (or barn) cat and produce viable offspring?

Jeez, the only responses that I can think of would get me banned forever.

Tigers and Lions can be successfully mated and are probably the most famous of the wild cat hybrids called a liger. I doubt a 100+ pound jaguar would mate with even a large 20 pound house cat. Maybe eat it? But hey, who knows for sure... My guess, it's a black house cat. But that is the fun thing about all if this, in all likelihood, we'll never know for sure! I would be very interested to see size comparisons utilizing items/animals of a known sized placed in the same spot the unknown cat was when photographed and then photographing that known item/animals from the same location and then doing a comparison. That will be very telling...

One of the guys on our deer lease in Del Rio killed a feral House cat about 10yrs ago that was as big, or bigger than the one in the photos...It had some huge fangs and was probably many generations wild.

[quote=CJBS2003]Tigers and Lions can be successfully mated and are probably the most famous of the wild cat hybrids called a liger./quote]

Here's what one looks like...

I know exactly what you and Todd went through.

A friend once sighted a flock of birds, and told everyone they were parrots. He caught a very rough time from everyone for that. They asked him "How do you know it was parrots, did they tell you?". He finally got fed up and called the State Wildlife and Fisheries, and they confirmed that parrots fly over the area. That sure shut up some wiseacres. You have to trust your own eyes.

As someone who didn't see what Todd saw, all I can do is play the odds. Odds are it's a large house cat, and not a big cat. However, odds are beaten every hour of every day.

looks like a tiger with an Artis Gilmore doo.

Now, back on topic.

It looks like it took you like three hours to do the shading on the upper lip.

It looks to me like that is a cross between a lion, a tiger and some type of iguana.

I remember one drunk night gathering up a trunkful of green tennis balls to sell at the flea market the following weekend. They turned out to be hedge apples.

I got skills. Yesssss!

Yes but has your artwork being compared to Van Gogh or Da Vinci or described as a sign of the apocalypse such as my artwork has. Notice the friendly smile. The warm come-hither look in the eyes. The peek-a-boo style placement in the photo.



Oh that's a cow by the way.

Our farm near Red River in Clay County, Texas having an issue with some sort of large black cat spooking and stampeding cattle enough so that they're going through barbed wire fences; I guess someone saw the cat.

Don't be silly realthing. Everyone knows these black cats don't exist. It's aliens and ufo's.

Actually, I think that is Lady Ga-Ga's new look, just on a designers sketch board.

You could cash in really big

I have read that a population is developing in Florida.

I will say that sketch is quite original.

Aliens or jaguars?

Probably both

we call them panthers here i have only seen one of them and 7 mountain lines over the past 25 years all late at night while coon hunting

Guys claim there are black mountain lions on Pennsylvania... Amazingly, ever photo I have ever seen of one looks like a black house cat to me and with the 800,000+ deer hunters, no one seems to every shoot one. If I see a big black cat, I am shooting it. Just so I can prove there was one. HAHA

Go ahead and pot a chupacabra while you're waiting for the cat to come along.

Have you got a good chupacabra recipe?

Be careful - you guys know how she says people steal her creativity - her reason for abstaining.

Eric!

I hear chupacabra tastes like pork...

Only with a pork rub....Use a poultry rub and it tastes just like chicken!

everything tastes like chicken,

Wow I can't believe this thread rose from the dead recently. Inspired me to share this email that I received from a complete stranger, TC Dean, who saw this thread:

TC DEAN
"I will give you the story , take it or leave it , but it isnt BS

I was 17 , and living in Denison TX , My girlfreind , had a Black
Siamese that had Mated with a Bobcat from the nearby Hills ( I Think
Raped might be more the statement ) but , there were 8 Kittens , 1 was
a Runt and the Mother rejected him , he was going to die , I took him
home and fed him with an Eyedropper Milk , Proteins , and other
Nutrient rich liquids for 2 months . then he started growing , I then
began giving very small pieces of red meat , torn up into very small
pieces so he could swallow them . He really started growing then . I
named him Ninja , and he ended up almost 40 pounds and Wild , the
Bobcat side was very strong , I had a great relationship with him ,
but I thought he was getting a bit too much for the area I lived in
Other peoples pets might be in trouble , he would never hurt a child
though , had plenty examples of that , he was very careful around kids
........

Anyway , after 2 1/2 years together I had to take him to the
Wilderness and let him go .

He grew , Mated and had children , You met one of my baby's offspring .

I would love to have a Zip file of those pix just for my Memories

it was 1983 Lake Texoma area I drove him up the River side after
the Dam out 40 miles or so to let him go .

To State my position clearly , I am a Craftsman with a Reputation ,
a Specialist in Vintage Guitar repair , and restoration , I now live
in Japan and have some pix on Picasa of my work if you wish to see
them .

TC
Hope to hear from you ."

Then My Reply:
"Thanks for your insight I was hoping someone might write to me about that
cat. All the best pics were posted on the forum where you can copy or save
them. If you want the whole batch just let me know.

We haven't seen it since and I don't expect to.

Thanks for your message."

Then TC Dean Reply:
"Ok well I used the right klik Save As trick , and have those pix ,
they almost brought tears to my eyes .

As I said I had a great Relationship with that animal , and no one
believed me when I told them about him because I didnt have any pix ,
My friends of that time knew him .

But My kid saw the Pix , and was like ," Whoa , what you said was
true !!!" that was worth it , your pix made Dad a hero ( For the day
at least ) there are sightings all over North Tx now , I am finding
more and more on the web .
Bobcats will attack , but I think if you take your time , you could
make friends with this guy , You would have to do it alone , and bring
him gifts . Meat scraps , other stuff . But I think slow approach ,
and You would have something extrordinary in your life , whatever you
do dont kill him ............ I wish other people could think without
dominance being the first thing in the mind ."

And to wrap up one thing, here is my best effort at estimating the size of that cat, based on relative size of 5gal bucket and size of my dogs:

The Black Cat Short Album

Wow, that is amazing ~ when you first posted those pictures I thought it was really just a big black cat, but when you compare them to your dog pictures and then really look at the cat pictures you can tell it is some kind of hybrid cat. Hopefully you will see him again!

Sweet!