OK, so I'm starting to plan pond #3 and I have a dirt moving question for someone out there with the experience. I need to move about 6,000 cubic yards of dirt out of a hole. I am looking at whether to use a JD550 or something bigger like a D8. There will be excavator work required too but this dirt is probably going to have to be moved with a dozer. Assuming that is true, is there a rule of thumb that I can use to equate the cost comparison between the two machines. Of course the D8 will cost more but should move dirt faster. If it cost twice as much but moves dirt 4 times faster that would be a bargain. Anybody know a way to figure this? Thanks in advance.

One part of the equasion is how far the dirt has to be moved.

As I recall, bz, you ran the heavy equipment on your first pond, so you are well ahead of most of us on the subject.
I paid the man to do it with our pond construction, but I did learn that the blade can make a huge diff, even on the smaller machine.

Bingo. Dozers are REALLY bad at moving material over any kind of distance. A guy running a medium sized excavator can bail, move, and bail a pile of dirt A LOT faster than a guy on a big dozer like a D8, and use half the fuel at the same time. Get a 325 or 330 excavator along with your little dozer and you can get a lot of work done

How about a dozer and a pan?

I knew someone would suggest bailing it with an excavator. I'm personally not experienced enough to know if that really is faster than a large dozer. I need to move the dirt an average of 150 feet. The closest dirt to the place I will pile it will be moved almost nothing while the farthest dirt will be moved 300 feet. The area is about symmetrical with half the dirt closer than 150 feet and half of it farther. I can't get anthing in there without tracks for sure. You are correct Brettski, the last time I dug I rented a dozer and an excavator. I don't remember the excavator size but it was a medium large machine with a 2 yard bucket. It was one of those shorter stick larger bucket rigs versus a long stick small bucket. It had a reach of about 30 feet. Do you guys think if I can get a similar machine that it will move it way faster than the 550 dozer even if I have to move some of it 300 feet? That would mean bailing it over about 5 times. Thanks for any input.

IIRC a while back Otto said something to the effect:

Moving dirt <50 Yds a dozer is most effecient. Next if on site and there's room, a pan scraper. Excavator and truck is only for farther distances, or where the scraper can't dump dirt. Even then, you need something to spread it out.

Otto, am I remembering correctly??

Sounds about right esshup, my problem is I can't get a truck in there, too soft. So if I use an excavator I will have to scoop it numerous times to get it moved. As far as I know, my only options are dozer, excavator, combination thereof, or the old fashioned drag line. I haven't seen one of those in years.

Since you already have a dozer again I vote for the biggest excavator you can afford. You can pile dirt A LOT higher with an excavator, and once you get in a rythym its a lot faster than you think. Only the dirt moving the farthest will have to be bailed five times, from then it gets easier and easier.

Dozers break a lot and drink fuel like they have a hole in the tank. If you think bailing dirt over and over again is a pain, try pushing it with a dozer over and over again. If your other excavator had a 2 yd bucket it was a decent sized machine. Rent the machine for a week, take a week off work, and then in between rentals clean things up with your dozer.

Have fun

Dozers break a lot and drink fuel. Yep. Over the years, I've probably had 8 or 10 dozers or loaders on my land. Only 2 haven't broken down in some way. One was new and the other was really old. 6 gallon fuel cans don't go very far.

At one time I was looking to buy one. However, putting tracks back on one will make you hate anything colored yellow.

150', no doubt a pan is what you need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eae0ItqYFbA

I have moved dirt with a pan behind a tractor, a dozer an excavator and a shovel and I like them all. The pan is very good at removing dirt and then taking it somewhere and dumping it but you can't dig as steep a bank and you need a longer ramp as you get deeper. The dozer is not so good at moving it long distances. The excavator is really the best at digging a hole but not so good at taking it somewhere else. I reccomend them all. Use the excavator for the digging the pan for hauling it off and the dozer for smoothing it all out when you are done.

Sorry I forgot to ask is there a budget?

James:

You make a good point. We used an excavator for 95% of the digging of my pond, but we also loaded the pan with the excavator to help move the dirt. I also had a dump truck, rented a backhoe, and a dozer. We also had an ASV on site for most of the renovation as well.

Great input from you all. Is there a budget, of course. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest plan of attack and then will estimate cost to see what it comes to. I'll find out if I can afford it. The pond will be less than 1 acre so I'm hoping to keep it under $5K. I can get the 2 yard excavator for $350 per day. I figure it's about 6000 cubic yards to move. I'll have to make some assumptions and sit down and figure out how long it will take to move that much dirt. Yes Ryan I've seen those "pans". Since my area is only 1 acre and I have no room around the perimeter to pull a pan (the perimeter is either swamp or trees) I really don't think I have the room to use one. I also think the cost would be higher since I'd have to also rent a larger dozer to pull one and rent the pan. I'll run some numbers on the excavator. I've pushed a lot of dirt with dozers and I think you guys are correct that the excavator will be quicker unless I get a really big one, that's why I'm asking. Just looking at a one acre area where I'm just scraping off 5 feet of peat I would think a D9/D10 would move it pretty quick. Funny story, I've used the excavator to move dirt over distances before. The quickest way is to take up a full scoop, get the machine spinning full speed around to 180 and dump while spinning, then you can keep right on spinning to a full 360 and not stop until ready to pick up another scoop. I think the one I rented last time would do 360 in about 6 seconds. I got so dizzy doing that for only a few minutes that I couldn't walk straight for 2 hours. I think you need to be astronaut material to operate those things at high speed.

If you rent a d10 or a d9 I want to come over to PlaY! I have never been on anything even close to that big!

Ya, I bet I won't have trouble finding some buddies to help dig will I? I don't know where I can rent one that big but I figured if it could be done faster then I would get some quotes to have someone haul one in and do the digging. There is a small construction company in the area that has something that looks like about that size. It's a different make so I'm not sure but it has about a 14 or 16 foot wide blade with about 4 or 5 foot wide tracks. Looking at the size of that thing I'd think it could move my dirt in a day or two. Might be worth the price versus renting anything for 6 or 8 days. From what I've seen they will just quote me a price per day and tell me that they'll dig until they are done or until my budget runs dry. That's usually how they do ponds around here. So I really need to know which way is the quickest especially before I hire someone. Of course anyone I talk to no matter what type of equipment will tell me they can do the job, they just won't quote how long it will take nor whether there is a better set of equipment than what they have available. So I'm kinda on my own to figure out the best aproach and then compare renting versus hiring.

bz, why not something in the middle like a d4 high track?

we used a cat 320c excavator w/ a 4 ft bucket and thumb to dig and pile, and the d4 to move it out. although a wheel loader would have been faster in my situation, the dozer did the job.

two of us did the majority of work on my ~1 acre pond in a weeks time. i set up an account and rented from holt, they were excellent at responding to a couple breakdowns we had.

good luck.

I was curious to look up some of the stats on a d9 its operating weight is 105000 pounds and has a fuel tank of 235 gallons. The d10 has an operating weight of 146000 lbs and a fuel tank of 325 gallons.

Wouldn't that kinda weight require special permits for transportation?

Yep, I think they're called super permits? There are different levels of permits.

and a wide load permit which also requires a pilot car

I knew this was coming, I don't know how would someone get a large machine like that to my place? The roads aren't even made to take that weight but they must have a way. I haven't even checked yet to see if anyone in my area can move one to my place. Just the moving sounds expensive. I could probably get a good deal on the purchase of the D10 in this picture.

DIED, your suggestion of a combo excavator and medium dozer was my first thought too.

that dozer has a blade full now!

i've seen the larger yellow iron broken down on trailers, then assembled at jobsite.

mob and demob charges go up accordingly.

no special permits were required for the size of equipment i rented.

I have found the answer to all of your dirt moving problems. The Komatsu d575 superdozer. It is the largest dozer in the world with a weight of 300,000 pounds plus or minus. I have found a 1998 model for only 800,000 dollars. It has a ninety yard blade.

james, if'n i came to you as a patient, just how large a filling could i get?

James, I think I saw that Komatsu on some cable show talking about the world's largest machines. I think it would do my job in about 4 passes. That's what I need! I found one on machinery trader in Kentucky, only $225,000 plus $20,000 shipping and handling. I'll take donations for a needy pond meister who needs this machine.

DIED the equipment you rented is actually pretty small for pond work, you dont even need a wide load permit for those items. I move equipment for a living and can tell you getting a D9 or bigger to your house is going to cost over 1k alone. It requires a superload permit and chase vehicles, or has to be diassembled and hauled in two pieces requiring two trips.

Personally I would take a week off work with a brother or someone who can help, and get a dumptruck and a 330 Cat excavator. You already have a dozer renting a bigger one is a waste. You get better rates on weekly prices than daily ones.

With an excavator and a dump truck working together and maybe a loader or backhoe you can move a LOT of dirt.

DOZERS ARE A PIA!!!! For 5k you should be able to dig the pond yourself no problem


BTW what do you plan on doing with the dirt and sand? You are not going to be able to simply hide a acres worth of dirt

Here's a D-11. They pack quite a punch too.




After repair

What was the truck driver thinking? (before the loud noise) It looks like that dozer didn't have any tracks, blade or motor.

That was a nice track hoe.

Exactly what I was thinking while digging my pond with a little Deere 650J.

While I was bouncing around in that dozer for days, I daydreamed about the quickest equipment (within reason) to dig 2-10 acre ponds. The earth is flat here, so they are 100% dug, no dams.

Big dozer (nothing digs faster)
Big wheel loader (nothing loads faster)
Big dump truck (maybe 2 or 3 of them!)
$600 a day fuel budget

Truer words have never been spoken.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish exactly but a wheel loader is another option. They can dig and haul dirt. You can get them with a 3 or 4 yard bucket.

wished i'd used one, would have saved many days....