Ok, we have a potential future problem at the pond. I may have mentioned this in another thread, but I can't find it now. Anyway, while hunting the other day I caught 2 teenagers riding their dirt bikes on the pile of excavated dirt near the pond. I mentioned this in a trail cam thread on another site that a neighbor of the property owns and he said that he's kicked those same kids off of his property before too. I am planning on getting trail cameras for a number of reasons, but possibly the most important, I want them to keep an eye out for trespassers. My pond will only be 3/4 acre so it wouldn't take much to screw it up. I can only imagine what would happen if they decided to take some fish with them. Without cameras we probably would never know, just wondering why we're only catching stunted BG a year down the road. Anyway, the pond is a stone's throw off of an old railroad (no tracks) that is frequented by these ATVs and dirt bikes. Besides the obvious fencing and trail cams, what other alternatives have you landowners found that works to keep trespassers off your property? I don't live on the property. My father does, but he's an over the road truck driver, only home about 3 days a week. So the opportunity to trespass is certainly there for these kids. In talking to the adjoining landowner I did tell him that if he sees them he is more than welcome to run them off and say he knows the owner. So that'll be an extra set of eyes which is good.

If you catch them, prosecute them... Warnings don't do much, but having to pay a fine or go to jail starts to send a message. Make sure your property is properly posted so the charges will stand up in court. Contact the local police department or sheriff's office and consult with them if needed.

I agree with CJ. What happens if they crash and burn on your property, then sue you?

Omaha, trespassing is a real problem in this country cause of the corrupted legal system, even with precautions and if your in the right, they can still drag you into court and cost you big bucks.

I like this no trespassing sign.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/best-no-trespassing-sign.jpg

Thanks guys, I like your train of thought. And I like that sign too Adiron.

In the spirit of that no trespassing sign, it doesn't hurt to do some target practice every time your at your pond, the sound of high powered rifle fire can be a deterrent.

One long border of my property also abuts against an abandoned RR track. It always has people riding ATVs and cars on it. It's also long border of my pond.

Fighting trespassers is a continuous effort. Once you run off a group, there will soon be a new group.

I go for the "warning once, then, throw the book at them." This way, you can always say you tried to be nice.

My rule - never , never ever approach a trespasser unless you have the ultimate advantage. A marksman buddy with a rifle and a clear view to cover you is a good start. With all the nuts out there you had better be ready for anything if you are confronting them.

I put on my happy face and ask them to leave. So far, no repeat offenders.

well said Eric.

Who would be afraid of a trainee Santa Claus?

Trainees are the worst, as you well know...

We shoot often on the property and near the pond so this should be covered.



I had my rifle, a side arm, and a nearly black belt 10-year old at the ready.



If little ol' me scared them off the first time, this dude would scar them for life.

Omaha

I totally agree with all the sentiments here...but if there is a group of repeat offenders I would take them aside and try to reach a compromise - I realize compromising with trespassers sounds crazy, but if given a chance to still ride their bikes while observing some ground rules you set it might have some pretty amazing results. You can always throw the book at them, put up razor wire, plant claymores....but it's always worth a try leveling with the kids and offering them a chance to be responsible. Maybe I'm crazy.

I try to be reasonable with trespassers, and typically they are also reasonable and don't cause any further problems (it still makes me mad though). Then there are the "others". I have some stories on here already about some "others" I've encountered thoughout the years.

Ultimately, it's my property, and I'll decide who, if anyone, is allowed to place their feet on it. If you're nice, ask BEFORE trespassing and perhaps offer something in return as a kind gesture (heck, it's neighborly to do), I may very well allow you to visit my property and probably won't expect anything in return. Follow my rules, and I may continue to grant you that privilege. If I decide to stop allowing you that privilege at any time and for whatever reason, that's life. I can do that. I own it.

I don't imagine your neighbors would like it if you drove your atv all over their manicured yard, helped yourself to what's in their garden or went into their house to check out what's in their fridge whenever you felt like it, so they shouldn't assume you're okay with them helping themselves to your property, your fish, your trails or anything else on your property either. Just because you have a bunch of land, and a nice pond on it doesn't change a thing. Right is right. Wrong is wrong.

Get your own if you like it so much.

OK, I'll play devil's advocate on this one. Yes. trespassing and shoplifting, pick pocketing, etc. basically, if I want it, I have the right to take it, is a problem in USA. BUT...for the first time, I am talking from the other side of the fence. Just because you have a no trespassing sign, doesn't mean you have open season on humans.

Case in point...we are inheriting an old house, the redug pond and a few acres to the east of the house. The house west side has a fence right next to it and back about 200 ft. with a small and large gate for access out the gates, up to the road in front of house and east to pond and fields with mower and tractor. The property was divided up by brothers(wife's granddad and brother many years ago. The brother put up a bob wire fence then, and it goes back and slants behind the house...obviously not on a N S line as sections of land were divided up then.
Well, fast forward to 30 yres ago, when my in-laws built the house and put up the fence on the west side back about 200 ft, then over to the east side. The son of the older guy that put up the original 'property line' fence always let my in laws plant a garden in the vacant 11 acre field to the west, and of course,access to the land for far enough to get the equipment in and out. It has always been a gray area. Everyone you talk to has a different description of the property line.
3 yrs. ago, a man bought the 11 acres with idea of building small houses on it. This was before we ever started staying there intermittenty. Now, being in the city on a postage stamp lot for 40 yrs, property line fights were as foreign as stories of Hatfield and McCoys.
Long story short...err.. too late for that; The guy has wondered over 3 times, 1st from his place to the back large gate, introduced himself and we started talking about some hunting trespassers he has seen on his game camera near the back of the property. He started talking about no trespassing signs and 'somebody might get hurt' etc. He is also a part time resident of the property. I told him I would be on the lookout for them. By the way, he had a Weatherby 7mm mag. strapped over his shoulder. Oh yea, his 1st spoken words were 'can I trespass to walk my property and look around?" after we started chatting, and forgot about the walkabout, I drove over to his house and invited him to come, that I had forgotten. He declined, saying he has a bad back and had done enough walking for the day.
2nd meeting, a few wks later, I was at the pond around the dam, which is toward the back of the property. I heard several high powered shots and birds scattering behind my dam. I thought it was the hunter trespassers; drove over to the area of shooting, and it was the land owner. I told him I was working at my pond, and it seemed the shots were pretty close and that I thought it was the hunters and came to investigate. He was shooting from his hood and out toward behind my dam and several hundred ft.back; he showed me it was at a downward angle. We both agreed that it was a little too close for my comfort.
3rd meeting, I had parked the UTV near the forward side gate and went inside briefly. He was on tractor and stopped. I re-introduced myself....idle chatter...then it became apparent that he was treatening me with putting up a sign, and somebody could get hurt, etc. I politely told him that I dont intimidate easily.
Then we started talking about the line always being vague, and the guy he bought it from(wife's uncle across the road) told him there would be property line trouble. I never knew any of this stuff had been going on. He says he had it surveyed; I asked to see the survey...because, I really dont know the property, he asked me if I wanted to get it surveyed; I said no, why should I, you can show me yours. He said he had a survey mark from the other corner, but never said he had a mark on the back of the property line.

Still dont know where the actual 2 points are, and I'll be damned if I am gonna be threatened over a line in the sand that I cant see or be shown. Note to all...know what the hell you are protecting before you start spouting off at the mouth. and dont treaten too harshly unless you intend to back it up.

burgermeister,
That's quite a mess you've potentially got there, and I hope you the best.

Property line disputes can be expensive and stressful situations.

When you are an absentee land owner, you have to be very aware of what can happen to your place when you are not there.

That is one of the main reasons that I try to be nice first.

When I say "be nice," I don't mean to allow them onto my place. I mean to say "hey, maybe you didn't understand, but now you do."

What an understatement Wessguy!

Our lawyer just filed a motion for a new trial, coupled with having now been criminally charged with trespassing on my own, surveyed land and property damage for cutting someone else's lock off of MY gates (they cut mine off to put theirs on), the legal fees have now exceeded the cost of our 60 acre "slice of hell.....err, heaven".

12/5/09 marked the third anniversary of this lawsuit with no end in sight.

But TJ, 'talking' doesn't sound near as much fun as those other things you mentioned! (by the way, this other land owner is shopping around for pond property and also works in an industry where he comes across a lot of PVC)

Burger and Rex, that sounds like a mess and I hope it gets resolved so you can put that unnecessary stress to bed for good. I'm praying we can nip this in the bud before we get to that point.

I was certainly nice when I approached the young men. They didn't see us coming and from talking to the other land owner, they might have bolted if they had. My dog startled them. I introduced myself by asking if they had permission from the land owner. His response was "I suppose not". Kind of irritated me with that cocky answer, but I kept my cool and basically said, hey I know this big pile of dirt looks like a lot of fun, I'm sure it is, but the fact of the matter is, the land owner doesn't know you, you didn't ask permission, and I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate you on his property without his knowledge. They took off quickly down the trail on their little dirt bikes without an argument.

Well placed boards with nails in them have caused trespassing ATV riders and dirt bikers to think twice about trespassing again after ending up with expensive flats. The plan can backfire though...

Fences, signs and ONE verbal warning (if I think they deserve one) after that, it’s time to bring in the law. The word will get out that YOU MEAN BUSINESS!!

I started out 25+ years ago with the good neighbor attitude. Then I realized that a predator/prey relationship had been established and I still put up with it for awhile. Then I got chapped and became a jerk. I found that people would push until I started pushing back.

Now, my neighbors have a 100% understanding that we both know where my property lines are.

I much prefer the current arrangement. It helps me sleep nights.

As far as putting boards out with nails in them, I have them around the bird feeders to deter the bears, seems to work and the bears can't sue me,----Wait I forgot if Cass Sunstein has his way the bears can sue me.
I know a certain lawyer around here I would like to see try to represent the bear.

There is one kid, not one of these guys, on an ATV that crosses this way to help my dad with the livestock when he's away. Good kid, so I'm not worried about him. He might have an issue with the nail boards though.

I'm thinking a more visible fence, with a small locked gate, and signs. Then if they bounce over all that, rain hellfire down on them. I think that's fair.

Best to be well insured, with signs placed as needed, having the Sheriff's Dept. explain criminal tresspass to those found trespassing (be armed in an attempt to avoid a fight when you remove the ATV key to keep the trespasser there until the deputy arrives) place game cameras at strategic points, and prosecute repeat offenders. Some counties have "if you don't own it, stay off it" laws, but trespassers might still be able to recover damages if injured on your property by nail boards or other booby traps. And although many of us think about taking them out, who really wants to walk up to the body of a child or adult he had just shot?

I don't think I'm capable of that, no matter how ticked I may get. Nothing is worth that in my opinion.

I have to agree with DD1 I'm glad I'm not the only one!

I used to be one of those dirtbike riders(long time ago)I rode all through the neighbors pastures. Never broke or tore up anything(not counting me or my bike). Heck, the owner was never around to meet or ask. All we knew was, he was some rich bigshot from Dallas, that only came down periodically. But we were always taught not to tear up other people's property. We were also smart enough to know that if we did start tearing things up (fences, barns, etc) We WOULD get to meet him(and the local officials). So ride was all we did. But nowadays these kids are not taught the same (from my perspective). Good luck to you however you handle this, just make sure you've thought your action through.

Yeah, I get tired of the entitlement issues these young people have nowadays too. That's why I've made it a point to get my kid involved in charities and volunteer work as much as possible. Make sure he realizes the world is bigger than he is. As kids we were always told the neighboring farmer would shoot trespassers. Whether that was true or not, we didn't want to find out.

Excellent advice Dudley as usual. With most kids a visit or call from the sheriff (or sheriff to the parents if that doesn’t work) is all it takes. However you have to watch for the bad apple that will return and set fire to your place.

I want to be sure you guys understand my rule. I don't give a - - - - about the trespasser - I do care about you. You can run off fifty of them with no problem but 51 may kill you. Don't give him the chance. Have the better position on him and be sure he knows it. That will stop any aggressive action by him. Peace through strength. If you don't want to follow that rule then for goodness sake don't confront them. Call for help , have the evidence and let the pros who are paid for that do their job. Taking their pic helps reduce the risks as well.

"who really wants to walk up to the body of a child or adult he had just shot" - no one and likewise your family does not want to walk up on your dead carcass. So only confront from a position of obvious strength or not at all. Introduce yourself ask their name and if you can help them. Let them explain. Don't yell or scream or threaten. After they explain just tell them to leave and to not come back if that is to be your position. Better yet call the pros to do the job.

BTW I am not talking about neighbors like in BM's situation. Angry neighbors are much more dangerous.

Is there any other kind?



Sorry, Eric, I couldn't resist. Very good points you made.

I would be likely to be the first person to run over my own homemade spike strips.... probably just minutes after placing them. hehe

Maybe you could adapt a warning for a no trespass sign that is akin to the one on the shop:

"This shop is protected by shotgun three nights a week, you decide which ones."

Dave...a jerk? Guess I'd have to don my Sombrero and take a stroll across his place before I'd believe that!

I know my comments ooze with naivety - I'll probably come unglued the first time I come across someone at the place...grab a cinder block and have some new SMB structure!

WG - we've gotta be related...took the words right out of my mouth.

I think this is a great solution...and heck in the end you have a new micro pond. Click Link below.

Bike Trail Hole

Oh man, that's hilarious. I could strategically place them all around the perimeter. Like land mines.

regarding the adjoining abandoned RR, they can be bought....

edit

sgt911:

It sounds like you need to dig another pond and put all the spoils around the perimiter of their property. Oops, I mean your property.

What do they do Sgt911, just trespass, or do they hunt and fish your property too?

edit

edit

That sucks. Have you ever gotten the cops involved?

I was wondering that. I'm curious what they'd say (the cops) if they were told that shots were fired in your direction.

Couldn't pass this one up either. When I saw it I had to post it.

Don't do the nail boards.

I wanted to do the same thing, or something like it, but if someone gets hurt or killed, not only will you be liable, you might not be at peace with yourself for the rest of your life.

I like that sign too. LOL

Here is a very recent story from my hometown. If any of the names seem familiar they are all former relatives, in-laws, or neighbors.

Man Arrested for Trespassing on His Own Land

This still isn't settled. I'm just glad I'm not the judge.

EDIT: I probably shouldn't have even posted this, but it does show another side of the trespassing issue. Please don't turn this into a political debate. This story has many sides, none of which are clear or precise. I think it will have to go outside the county to get settled.

Trespassing is a huge problem whether it be hunting or fishing.

I naively thought that it wouldn't happen at my pit until the other day. I have had somebody ride ATV's around our place in the past despite locked gates and well maintained fences. Anyway, the other day, after a couple of weeks of freezing temps, I went out to make the season's first attempt at ice fishing the pit. Imagine my surprise when I saw on the ice between 10 and 15 re-frozen spots where someone had drilled holes! This despite the fact that the pit is only about 100 yards from, and within sight of, my house. I haven't given anyone permission to fish this year. I thought that maybe my Father had come over to fish, so I called him, and he said "No." As far as I can tell, the trespassers must have come onto the property when my wife and I were at work. So, now, I have to find a way to catch the trespassers if they return.

I have thought about trail cameras, but it is very open around the pit, and I'm afraid anyone who trespasses would steal the cameras. I have talked to the local conservation officer, and made him aware that there is a problem. I have also made business/permission cards signed by me that I give only to those who have permission to use the property. The conservation officer has one also, so he is aware of the documentation that people who use the pit should have.

I think that the only real solution to stopping the problem is to catch and prosecute the violators.

Post a sign near the pond that says No Fishing - Video monitored.

Hello Nebucks and welcome to Pond Boss. Trespassing seems like an issue no matter where your property is. I even had folks cut a barbed wire fence so they could ride horses on my property. Repaired the fence and posted signs "No Trespassing, No Hunting, No Fishing." I drove some T Posts in around the edge of the pond such that you cannot access my pond without walking past a sign. Is there any road or trial that you can place the cameras to get photos?

This idea I like.

At first blush I did too. However I would be somewhat worried that the people coming onto the property would become "invited guests" which, at least in California, increases the level of liability to the property owner.

I've created a form that I make anyone sign who's going to hunt on my property.

It specs out the date of when they are going to hunt and it's says that I have no liability in the matter. It also lists the phone numbers of myself, the PA State Police, and the PA Game Commission officer.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I can't be sued, but it will help a little bit if things ever get legal.

One reason I also did this was to enable my permitted hunter to tell anyone else they see to 'slag off.' I tell people that I don't expect them to confront anyone, but that if they do, show them the permission slip and ask if they've got one (which they wouldn't).

Thanks folks! I've been a long time lurker here, and I can't believe the amount of quality info that comes from this site. It is a great place!

I was concerned about the liability issue also at first. However, here in Nebraska, we have a law that states that as long as the landowner is not receiving compensation for access, he/she is not liable for mishaps that occur unless he or she knowingly fails to make users aware of unusual hazards. People who are granted free access assume risk in exchange for access to the property. Now, if the land owner charges a fee or receives gifts in compensation, then he/she becomes liable for incidents that occur.

I asked about whether or not the card would open me up to legal issues and was told that it does not. It just confirms that the bearer has my permission to access the property for the period denoted on the card.

Good to know. Where in NE are you Bucks?

Now THAT is a sensible law.

I am in the Kearney/Grand Island area.

Yep, the law was passed a few years ago in response to the increase in leasing that is going on in our state and the reduction in numbers of people who utilize outdoor resources. Since lack of access was indicated as the number one reason why hunting and fishing recruitment was/is declining, it is an attempt by the legislature to keep private lands accessible to folks who can't afford to lease. The idea is to make it easier for land owners to say yes to folks who ask to use property for outdoor pursuits without the fear of frivolous lawsuits. It saves on them having to purchase liability insurance also. The flip side is that those who do receive compensation for access, need to have all of their ducks in a row as far as insurance goes and making sure that their property is "safe" for use.

The amazing thing is that their are a lot of land owners in the state who are not aware of this legislation. A lot of land owners mistakenly believe that leasing is the only way to protect themselves from lawsuits from poachers and trespassers who might get injured while on their property illegally. In reality, by leasing, they actually open themselves up to more potential law suits.

Ah, good to have another 'Husker' on board. We have 2 Lincolnites and I am building a pond near Springfield. Welcome to the best resource for pond management on the web.

Welcome to PB Nebucks. I would suggest that you contact your insurance agent and verify that you have coverage including cost of defense in the case one of the card holders is injured and makes a claim.

ewest, I appreciate the advice. I have checked and my insurance company says that the pond is covered for liability issues under my home owner's insurance since it lies within a certain distance of our house.

I thought I would copy and paste the Nebraska legislation for those from other states so that you can see what I am talking about with this law. The law has been tested in court and has been upheld. That isn't saying that some knuckle head couldn't take a land owner to court; however the chance of that person winning is almost nil. (I would say never, but it is only never until the first time.)

***Sorry for the length***
Here is the Nebraska statute:

"Nebraska Recreation Liability Act (Sections 37-729 to 37-736)

37-729. Terms, defined. For purposes of sections 37-729 to 37-736:
(1) Land includes roads, water, watercourses, private ways, and buildings, structures, and machinery or equipment thereon when attached to the realty;
(2) Owner includes tenant, lessee, occupant, or person in control of the premises;
(3) Recreational purposes includes, but is not limited to, any one or any combination of the following: Hunting, fishing, swimming, boating, camping, picnicking, hiking, pleasure driving, nature study, waterskiing, winter sports, and visiting, viewing, or enjoying historical, archaeological, scenic, or scientific sites, or otherwise using land for purposes of the user; and
(4) Charge means the amount of money asked in return for an invitation to enter or go upon the land.

37-730. Limitation of liability; purpose of sections. The purpose of sections 37-729 to 37-736 is to encourage owners of land to make available to the public land and water areas for recreational purposes by limiting their liability toward persons entering thereon and toward persons who may be injured or otherwise damaged by the acts of omissions of persons entering thereon.

37-732. Landowner; invitee; permittee; liability; limitation. Subject to section 37-734, an owner of land who either directly or indirectly invites or permits without charge any person to use such property for recreational purposes does not thereby (1) extend any assurance that the premises are safe for any purpose,(2) confer upon such persons the legal status of an invitee or licensee to whom a duty of care is owed, or (3) assume responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or property caused by an act or omission of such persons.

37-733. Land leased to state; duty of landowner. Unless otherwise agreed in writing, an owner of land leased to the state for recreational purposes owes no duty of care to keep that land safe for entry or use by others or to give warning to
persons entering or going upon such land of any hazardous conditions, uses, structures, or activities thereon. An owner who leases land to the state for recreational purposes shall not be giving such lease (1) extend any assurance to any person using the land that the premises are safe for any purpose, (2) confer upon such persons the legal status of an invitee or licensee to whom a duty of care is owed, or (3) assume responsibility for or incur liability for any injury to person or property caused by an act or omission of a person who enters upon the leased land. The provisions of this section shall apply whether the person entering upon the leased land is an invitee, licensee, trespasser, or otherwise.

37-734. Landowner; liability; exceptions. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 limits in any way any liability which otherwise exists (1) for willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against a dangerous condition, use structure, or activity or (2) for injury suffered in any case where the owner of land charges the person or persons who enter or go on the land. Rental paid by a group, organization, corporation, or the state or federal
government shall not be deemed a charge made by the owner of the land. 420

37-735. Sections, how construed. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 creates a duty of care or ground of liability for injury to person or property.

37-736. Obligation of person entering upon and using land. Nothing in sections 37-729 to 37-736 limits in any way the obligation of a person entering upon or using the land of another for recreational purposes to exercise due care in his or her use of such land in his or her activities thereon."

Sounds very similiar to the law in here in IL. It is amazing how many people don't know about this and the answer you will get when you telling them about it.

Laws similar to this exist in many states. Wisconsin law limits the recovery options of an invited non-paying recreational user of land to those of a trespasser.

In Michigan, unless the guest is paying for access, the property owner is not liable for invited or un-invited persons. Then with the paying guests, they have "No Cause" against the owner, lessee or tenant unless they can prove some sort of negligence or misconduct.

This is what Michigan has to say: Act 451

This Act is really in favor of the property owner, lessee, or tenant. I like how they tied it into the "Michigan Right to Farm Act". Good job MI.

The bad thing with "no Liability" laws is that you still have to pay to defend them, win or lose, unless you can get your insurance co. to cover the expense. There are always exceptions, but not many.

Unless I am misunderstanding this "a cause of action shall not arise", pretty much says a trespasser... can not even bring a claim against a property owner... for injuries... I also understand the exceptions...

The other thing I like is a property owner... can bring a claim against a trespasser, and has 1 year to do so.

I prefer to live in peace with our neighbors on the west side of the property, so I am thinking a good fence is in order to define boundaries (even though they are well defined now). I need to go about 1900 feet to block out two neighbors. The other neighbor is good people!

Sadly, we have our first case of trespassers that I'm aware of at our pond. We just moved in December. Now the weather is warming up enough to where I guess casual fisherman have taken an interest in the pond.

There's a golf course behind our pond and my wife said she caught two people who looked like they were in the late teens fishing in the pond and taking two of the bass we just stocked in the pond this past weekend. I am so upset about that. These are nice quality 2 pound fish and I intentionally left those fish alone since stocking them so they could get adjusted. She says she saw them run off with two fish in their hands when she came outside. Then to top it off, later in the day they came back and they ran again when she came outside.

At least have the stones to come up to the house and ask if you can fish. That really upsets me. They've broken through a barbwire fence I have up along the golf course to get to our pond.

Wife called the sheriff to file a report. I'm going to put up posted signs and repair the fence today.

I guess it begins now.

Oh man that kind of stuff pisses me off!! That's what I am afraid of at my land as I am not even there where I can watch my pond! Once I have my cabin built I am thinking about putting up video so I can at least watch whats going on there and report it if I have it on video! Good luck with your situation. Hope you get it fixed before something ugly happens!

I have a horrible time with fishing trespassers. I am not spending much on the fish until I get things straightened out on that front. I replaced the one faded falling down sign and added 3 more cheap HF no trespassing signs while out seting the beaver traps. All gone a few weeks later when I went out to check them and mow. The 4 replacements were gone the next week when I took my kid and mom out there to have some fun . Now I have my purple paint(to make it 100% posted in official eyes) and a cheap HF laminator. They can steal all the laminated sheets of paper they want.

See if you can make a pile of dirt big enough to act as a backstop in someone's eyes, and place a target with some holes in front of it. Then place a sigh saying "caution shooting range" and see what happens then.

After going thru some of the same things, I really feel for absentee landowners, especially the ones that are a long ways away.

Unfortunately, it's started, and really, it does not ever end.

Next time you spy someone from the house, try to circle around and find out how and where they are coming in.

Keep all of your stocking records and receipts for legal action, if necessary.

I met a fine gentleman at a New Years Eve Party last. We hit it off because of our mutual interest in fishing, hunting, and gun collecting. He's now retired and for the last ten or so years worked in education. He mentioned that earlier in his career he was a game warden. I asked why he left, "my partner was murdered on duty."

I know exactly where they come onto the property b/c there's a pushed down piece of the fence on the back edge of the property along the golf course.

I went back there today and nailed the fence back up to the post and against a tree.....and put a posted sign right beside it. I put 4 other posted signs up.

Good news is I caught my first fish out of the pond today and it wasn't one of the ones I stocked....b/c it was a huge bluegill. That made me feel a little better. I also saw two bass cruising in the shallows which looked to be about the size of the 10 that I put in the pond last week.

It bugs me that these inconsiderate buggers are making me spend my $$ on efforts to keep them out........and yet then again I remember how it was being a mischievous young teenager too.

My thing is, depending on the way they were raised, they can become a major headache for me. We had a deputy come out today and talk to my wife and essentially said that unless they (cops) are able to walk right up to them and catch them in the act, there's nothing they can do. I could go out and buy a $100 wildlife camera and catch photos of them trespassing but what will that do? They'll either find it & steal it or if I actually catch them in the act and turn them in, they still live 100-150 yards behind my house across the fairway and will make life miserable like pranking teens can do......ie vandalizing and just general terrorizing. And with just my wife home during the day alone, that's not something I'm keen on.

Actually had the deputy tell us we should buy a big dog to roam the property and acted surprised when my wife said we don't need him coming back out to put the dog down as being a nuisance animal when it bites someone or better yet, we get sued.

I liked the range idea.....I also thought about posting a sign that says "warning: rattle snake nursery" lol

You may want to have a couple signs made that claim the area is under wireless 24 hour video surveilance....trespassers will be prosecuted.

Or, as sign in smaller print saying, if you are reading this sign, you have been videotaped....Day or night.

And put up a couple cheap video cameras or dummy domes.

Yea, thought that exact same thing....and yep thought about the dummy domes but I'm sure they'd eventually get shot out by a bb gun or something.

I googled some sign verbage and I really like this one. The last sentence is very blunt and to the point

I should try one of those.

Harbor freight sells knock off survelince cams for 6$ I put them up and my neibor asked where i got my survelince sytem. if it keeps 1 person off the property its worth it. I am plnning on putting up a real dvr surveliance sytem that runs a 30 day loop. I have found them for around 500$ on line. 4 camera system day and night. thats if you have power. some advice on trail cams use infered amd put them up in trees abhout 10 foot up angled at 45 degrees to get there faces and this way they dont see the cam and swipe it. attached is a pic of a trespasser on my property.m I know who he was and afeter putting it in his mailbox i havent seen him around since

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=cameras

The subject problem sounds manageable without knowing all the details.

Getting a picture of these people fishing does hold weight, but getting something like that through the trouble of the courts may be premature and the law does not have time for a lot of these types of things.

If you have pictures, you then can find out who the kids are and you then have so many more options on how to deal with it. Many times, a simple face to face dialogue can be very effective.



The shooting range option, while usually very effective, will likely be a hollow threat here with being adjacent to a public golf course and other homes.

A well placed paintball could make an easy indentification for the cops.

Once we regain access to our property, a motorized, motion sensing system and internet will go on our place. along with internet viewing and notification...There is software that claims to be able to distinguish between people and animals and will focus in close up shots automatically, transmits wirelessly to the DVR and uploads to the net to save an image if the DVR is stolen or disabled.

Yeah you got it RM. That's exactly what I am fixing to do as well! If you can get internet there you can do a lot of stuff if you know what and how to set it up.

You might want to consider writing a handwritten note, laminating it, and posting it right by where they get to your pond. Emotional appeals might deter some people that will ignore, or get a thrill out of, walking by a "NO TRESPASSING" sign.

"I've worked very hard to develop this pond for my family's enjoyment. When you come onto our property, you damage what we love and destroy my hard work. Please do not hurt us by trespassing on our land."

I was just in court last week for a case where my father and I caught two guys trespassing on land we manage for an elderly lady and in return she lets us hunt it. They had just killed a buck on it and were driving right through a soybean field. We were not happy! They actually drove over a posted sign to get on to the property...

We obtained their information and call the game warden. He came out, took our statements and then made contact with the guys. He charged them both with trespassing to hunt. In Virginia, that is a Class 1 misdemeanor, which is the most serious misdemeanor there is. It carries up to a 12 month jail sentence and $2500 fine.

Well, the prosecutor said they had no criminal record so she allowed to to do a plea bargain. They got a 6 month deferred disposition. This basically means, if they do nothing illegal for the next 6 months, the charges are dropped like it never happened... Pretty pathetic! Virginia has tougher trespass laws than most states. Where our hunting and fishing land in Pennsylvania is, the laws up there are a joke and getting the PA State Police, Game Commission or Fish Commission to do anything is next to impossible!

They wonder why land owners go crazy and start shooting at trespassers? It's called frustration that the laws are pathetic or not enforced!

I am dealing with an increasing problem at one of my mothers propertys that is getting really out of controll. She bought a 75 acre property that has a 7acre lake on it. One side of the lake has houses on it. She owns a perimeter of 20 yards on that side of lake, yet they have docks and shed's on the water. When she bought the place 2years ago I started with the nice guy approach and talked to everyone saying as long as everything is cleaned up " Beer cans, cases, fishing line ......" I dont care if they fish there. Now every time we go out some YAHOO and I almost get into a fight calling me every name in the book saying they have a right to be there from the former owner. Last week when I went out there to clean some brush I had the cops called on me at my own family property... What a mess. It took my mother driving 45 mins and me getting nothing done. Now that its on record with the police I am seriously thinking of making all neighbors good and bad stay off the property period.

Might be time to consult an attorney and start booting people before it's too late.

Cody,

They have docks and sheds on your Mother's property? That is insane!!!I would invest in a tall, quality, welded wire fence on that side of the property. Those yahoo's are looking to take over what isn't theirs. Good Luck!

A word on video surveillance systems. They can get expensive fast, but,..... don't go so cheap just to get a video system in place. Its of no value if the image is blurred and a positive ID cannot be made from the video system alone. Depending on the State, an official "No Trespassing" sign may need to cite the statute section number to be enforcable in court. Check your local laws.

A type of sign that says "Smile, you just got your picture taken" has worked very well for me.

CJ, I've found the PA State Police and Fish/Game Commission people to be very responsive and helpful.

I've also found that granting neighbors the right to fish or hunt your pond leads to bigger problems as they extend the invite to their friends and family.

If you have power and fast internet you've got some great options that aren't ridiculously expensive. I've got several power-over-ethernet PIR (passive infrared) cameras hooked up to a wireless router with a verizon 3G card. I get instant photos or videos on my iPhone, day or night, whenever the cameras detect motion. As an absentee owner, I can call my good neighbor who will jump in his car and intervene. And I have clear photos/videos of the perp which I use to prosecute. So far I've taken one person to court and he got slapped with a $175 fine and a warning. Word's out in the neighborhood that I don't play.

Dang it man that is just jacked up!! Docks on your pond??? That's even more jacked up. Isn't it amazing what people think they can do just because they been doing it and getting by with it??? So many people in our country have no respect for anyone anymore it makes me sick. Your going to have to spend some money on that side of your pond to keep people out and I can see any kind of fence being damaged all the time just out of spite if you put one up. Where have all the good people gone?? Not just kids these days even grown 30 plus year old men think they can do whatever they want to whoever they please?? WTF is up with that???? It's fustrating for sure!!

Cody you need to get that taken care of before they do own the lake.

I am actually considering this option too. I know within a 5-6 house range where the teens are coming from. I thought about taking pictures of the damage to my fence line and writing a short letter that communicates the fact that we're investing our time & money into repairing damage that has been done by trespassers and just want the violations to stop. Then putting these fliers in the mailboxes of the houses on this street with hopes that the adults in the home are responsible and can say something to the teens.

But that said, I also figure that can open up another can of worms by essentially "advertising" the property and also getting the teens in trouble = opens up the odds of them vandalizing the property.

I've certainly had my share of trespassing, theft and vandalism issues at our property. IMHO nothing will eliminate trespassing especially if you are an absentee owner but also my experience has been you can reduce trespassing through the following courses of action:

1. Research the trespassing laws in your state/county. Know what the laws are and what your rights are as a land owner.

2. Get to know the local law enforcement. In my area there are two Deputies that patrol the area. We have met and talked with both of them. They are great guys. Let them know you on a personal level.

3. Make sure your entire property is fenced.

4. Patrol your fence line as often as possible, repair any broken or cut fencing.

5. Post "No Trepassing, No Hunting, No Fishing, No Motor Vehicle Activity" signs along the entire fence line and along every trail on the property. Surround your pond with the signs. At a very minimum post them at the interval required by law. We have gone way beyond this interval along the fence line. You can purchased quality aluminum no trespassing signs in bulk on Ebay (25 signs for about $45 with shipping). (Ebay no trespassing signs). The signs are very visible and are reasonable enough to replace. IMHO the plastic ones are a waste of money, the don't hold up. With the bulk signs in the link you have to drill your own holes but that is easy. We mount them to the fence using heavy wire twisted tight with the ends cut off short. That makes them harder to steal. Along trails and around the pond we pound in "T" posts and mount the signs on them. When a sign goes missing goes missing we replace it immediately.

6. Buy reasonable game cameras and surround your pond and other valuables with them. Mount the cameras in security boxes and use a locking cable (Python cable) to secure them to trees. Put them high enough in the tree that they cannot be reached on foot. All of ours our mounted at least 10 feet up so covering them up or otherwise tampering with them is difficult. If you capture an image of a trespasser forward the image to your local law enforcement. They might know who the person is and be willing to contact them.

7. Use "property under surveillance" signs and post them in any location that you suspect people are entering your property and around your pond.

9. Get to know your neighbors. Meet them face to face. This will do two things, first you might recognize as trespasser when caught on camera (one of the trespassers on our property was a neighbor) and second you can make the neighbor aware of the trespassing issues you've had and ask them to keep an eye out for trespassers as well. Tell the neighbor that you have added security cameras and that you intend to prosecute trespassers and ask the neighbor to spread the word.

10. If you are an absentee owner try to arrange to have family, friends or neighbors, check on your property as often as they are willing to.

11. Determine the legality of shooting firearms on your property and set up a safe and legal shooting range. Practice with the firearms frequently on your property.

Basically you need to make your property as uninviting as possible to trespassers. We have had way more than our share of issues with trespassers and are utilizing all of the above methods. We haven't eliminated trespassing but we have reduced it significantly. The signs and cameras cost money and are a hassle but IMHO are good deterrents. Plus with the cameras you get the bonus of getting some good wildlife images.

I had a problem last year. I have installed a Cuddeback that I check every time I go there. The darn thing is pretty hard to find (I hope).

They will be back. When it happens I'm going to call the Game Warden. However, I doubt that anything real serious will be done to them.

All very good suggestions. Cody, I'd do some research into the state laws regarding eminent domain. I've heard that in some states if a person "squats" on a piece of property for "X" amount of years, then it becomes theirs if the landowner who actually owns the land doesn't try to kick them off (during that time frame).

Even with the Python locks, game cameras can still be stolen, even if they are in a locked steel box. Friz had one stolen roughly within 2 weeks after it was installed.

If I had to steal an incriminating camera with a Python lock, I would probably bring a chain saw.

They didn't. The tree is still standing. 3/8" Python cable, good lock, the kind that is shrouded and you can't get to the shackle.

Its sad but your right I am going to have to just start being a total jerk. I have two ponds of my own so I never was out to be a nazi about controlling this pond, but now I have my other two stable and would like to spend some time up there getting it balanced. This weekend I am going to bolt some metal signs in that they can't take out and make my presence known while I do it. Maybe even but my bass boat in and dewinterize it to make some noise.

Cody, do you have a recent survey so that you know exactly where the property lines are?

Could you use a ladder and put the camera up in the tree higher and angle it downward towards the ground? Would that work. If the camera was 10 feet up as least it would be harder for them to get to.

That's exactly what I did with mine RC. To install them I put a step ladder in the back of the Polarius Ranger bed and stood on the step ladder. Mine are all at least 10 feet up. Plus I cut of the branches below the camera (mostly to reduce false triggering from the motion of branches).

To get to my cameras you'd either have to bring a ladder or cut the tree down.

Nothing will absolutely stop trespassers but in my experience the more deterrents you add the better off you will be.

If you get one of these tough Texans that brings their own chain saw well basically you're screwed.

or one of the craftier ones that carries a 38 caliber camera shooter

That would be my fear with paying $100 for a camera....coming back to find the lens shot out.

These motion alarms are cheap and could help spook any intruder, also as has been mentioned, regular loud target practice on your property can be a good deterrent, that's my favorite tactic.
http://cgi.ebay.com/IR-Wireless-Motion-S...=item5d2e06ce58

I'd like one of those alarms to put near my fruit trees. I didn't see if it was rated for outdoor use. But, its so inexpensive, I guess I could replace it after every rain during fruit season!

I have some friends that have had issues with trespassing and here are a few suggestions...Put up alarm signs. "protected by Sentry alarms" etc. The idea is the trespasser may believe that they have triggered an alarm and that the authorities or owner are on the way.
Another suggestion for land that is served by electricity is to put motion detector lighting in. Put it on your main road and when you drive in at night it will trigger and light up and also can make an alarm sign more visible. This can also be connected to a buzzer. If someone passes through our main gate a buzzer goes off at our house letting us know someone has entered. This can work to startle a trespasser.
Finally, consider occassionally carrying a holstered sidearm with you when you know neighbors kids or others are in the area. Make sure they see you carrying it. A friend of mine has a big Colt pistol that he carries frequently when he is on his property for a number of reasons. He has had some break ins and vandalism to deal with. There is something very intimidating about a stern looking land owner walking around with a cannon strapped to his hip that will make you think twice before wanting to cross him!

Just a thought for some that may absentee landowners... As some of these said trespassers are likely neighbors, and assuming they may be reasonable people(of course some are lost causes) would you be better off explaining your fish management practices and gaining an ally/extra set of eyes rather than intimidate? I know I for one would go the extra mile to defend and help a neighbor who offered a chance to wet a line from time to time rather than the one who just outbid me and told i would get shot if ever caught me looking at his pond. Landowner myself and certainly understand the time and investment many have tied up in their property but as stated just a thought.

Get tough with them or they will run you over. Signs will not work except to aid in prosecution. Get the sheriff and game warden involved. place game cams by your signs and get pics and turn in those tearing down for vandalism If you can disrupt them enough and ruin enough of their trips they will eventually move on to easier targets. We had the same problem when we moved to our place because the old landowner let anyone and everyone hunt. After two years of turning everyone in and firing shots in the air we finally have it under control, however, as soon as my pond is complete i am sure we are going to have it start all over again. Hopefully taking this into account while building the pond will help. The side along the gravel road that is farthest away we choked with shallow cedars, palllets and cut hawthorns and anything else to snag a lure to make it nearly impossible to fish from the bank from those areas. Then we reenforced the fence and laid locust branches on the back side then planted black berries all along the fence trying to make it impenatrable. Next we got the nearest neighbors involved giving them permission to fish (following our rules) so they would have a vested interest in keeping poachers out. Good luck

russaber, you have the right approach, but there are just too many neighbors who take advantage. It is a must to befriend the ones have respect for others and self esteem.

At my place, we have neighbors at our gate who look out for our place and call if they see trouble. But there are many of them just want to hunt, fish, and quad/ATV on my land. A lot of them are poachers also. Others don't want to be bothered and don't bother anyone, and that is also a great neighbor to have.

Agreed sunil, sad to say but our best neighbors are the ones we never see.

Ozark Striper, I had the same problem when I bought my place 25 years ago. It must have taken 5 years to make trespassers sneak in instead of walking just in.

About 20 years ago, I allowed a good fiend to go up and take his Nephew deer hunting. I showed him a couple of good spots, gave him the key to the gate, and then returned the 70 miles home. While they were sitting, a couple of hunters came by. He stood up and waved to them. They came over and asked what he was doing on their land. He apologized and left. In other words, he had the wisdom not to confront them.

I'm not working on gaining any wisdom.

I really don't ever go patrol my property during any of the deer seasons. The feeling of being sighted in from a few hundred yards away is not high on my list of good times.

My favorite story is from one of my former taxidermy customers when I used to mount deer vs. just fish. He walked out to one if his stands on his property only to see someone else in it. He walked up to the gentleman and asked him if he had permission. The guy said he did from the landowner and would he please get the **** away so he could hunt. Really nasty and macho. The landowner replied that's funny I don't recall giving you permission, I've never seen you in my life, and furthermore if you don't get out of my tree stand right now I'm going to blow your *** out. The guy complied.

Another friend of mine a Vietnam Veteran that runs a trout hatchery in Michigan confronted some young raggedy looking men hunting on his property without permission. When he confronted the three guys that were half his age he heard something to the effect, "Bring it on old man we can take you!" My friend pulled a firearm off of the set of his pick up and and said, "Yep I'm an old man with nothing to lose and Vietnam vet to boot, and according to the VA I've got a screw loose. And this won't be the first time I've killed a human being. What'd say we all do down in a blaze of glory! They backed down muttering something like that dude is ****** crazy lets get out of here

Was once asked what I would do if I caught someone stealing Chrismas trees from my back field. I swear that I did not even have to think but just said "it depends on if the ground is frozen or not". I never have had any problems with stealing.

I have two more no trespassing stories if no one minds. Hopefully I haven't already posted them.

The first one is another trout farmer, this one in Ohio. He has what is know as a "blue hole" on his property. That is a collapsed well that got so large it became a pond about a half acre in size. It goes straight down to 60 feet and the banks are pretty much vertical. Dan also has artesian well flow of I think 3000 gpm.

Dan doesn't live at the farm and drove in one day to see two little tikes about 4 or 5 years old fishing the blue hole. Dan didn't really mind the fishing but it terrified him that if they fell in they'd never get out. So Dan decided to make sure they wouldn't ever want to come back. The two tikes took off with their little snoopy poles, but of course at 4 or 5 you can't run very fast. Dan ran behind them (more of a jog) pretending he was going to get them. I'm sure they thought they were Hansel and Gretel or something. He said they cried and were scared and ran all the way home (three houses down) with Dan right behind them. He felt bad about it but knew if they fell in and drowned he'd feel a lot worse. Anyway once he got to the house he found the lady of the house and read her the riot act. He explained to her where they were and if they had fallen in they would never come back. Hasn't had a problem with them since.

Dan had another problem one day. He came up to the property only to find teenagers netting trout out of his raceway. Before he snuck up cornered them and very tersely explained the were stealing his livelihood he let the air out of one of their tires. There was a front loader nearby and he had them believing that if he wanted to he would bury them on the property and no one would know what happened to them. The girls in the group by this time were in tears. Anyway he let them go with a promise they would not come back. Dan's brother-in-law showed up later and ask,"I just saw the damnest thing. A car load of teenagers hat seemed to be really upset and they were driving slowly on a flat tire." Or was it two flat tires?

Guys - my place is a weekend location almost two hour drive from my house. There is no hardwired internet (cable, fios, DSL, etc) available. But there is cell phone service. So...this may be the same case for others with trespassing issues. I am looking into these options:

http://www.offsitecommander.com/
http://www.proxicast.com/security/security-video.htm
http://www.eyetrax.net/index.aspx#5

I've thought about it but just don't want to spend that much $.

No better protection than befriending a neighbor and giving him or her exclusive access to your place. We live on our place now, but for the first couple years one of our neighbors was given trapping and walking rights to our farm (except deer season). He now has permission to also take as many bluegill from our pond as he wishes, but needs to throw back the CC and LMB (not really an issue since this winter's fish kill). Choosing the right person is critical. This fellow (and his wife) leave no trash and are respectful of property rights. He is also a good shot but not stupid. He has called us on several occasions when unknown vehicals have gone up our drive and we were away. We have not had any real issues since I made it clear to the local tresspassers that I would defend my property rights, but another set of eyes is a good thing.

I agree, a trustworthy neighbor is a good thing. The issue i run into are 1) problems during the night when teenagers, etc park their vehicles on the street side of the gate and then trespass. It's not a busy road, so they can turn off the headlights and be somewhat secluded and 2) during the days people come onto the property while my neighbors are at work.

To Dave Davidson - i am sure you've seen moultries' version. cost about half of those i listed. just not sure how good they work.

I've seen them but I've had several of their regular game cameras and that hasn't left me with a lot of enthusiasm.

I currently have a Cuddeback watching the most obvious trail down to the pond.

Even with a dog and living close to my ponds it probably would be easy to come in and fish after we've all gone to bed. Not sure if you could keep someone out if they are really determined.

Interesting looking game camera. Who makes that one?

Watch out for that first flash. Its a real doozie!

Ah yes, the Claymore mine. A true study in product development & improvement. The success rate was greatly increased after they put the "Front Towards Enemy" sign on it.

I prefer the bouncing Betty's.