I have decided the only way to fix my leaking 4 year old pond is to drain it, mix in 16,000 lbs. of bentonite with clay and compact the bottom with a sheepsfoot roller. I don't think the pond bottom was properly lined and compacted when it was originally built. I have spent a lot of time and money trying to correct it with no results. This is my last resort.

Since the pond is 4 yrs. old the LMB have gotten to 16" and the BG are 9" from the original stocking. The man that is doing this tells me we can net most of the fish and hold them in a a smaller pond right below the main one( 2 ac).

I know the balance will be totally screwed up and I feel a lot of fish will die. My question is should I even worry about the saving the subsequent year classes or should I just try to get as many of the biggest LMB, BG and CC and just stock lots of FHM when it refills? It breaks my heart to have to do this but I feel it is the only way.

We have had an above avergae rainfall year and the pond is down 39" and looks terrible. As it is It detracts from the property value I feel.

Mark,

You're doing the right thing. You'll be glad you did this when it's all over.

As far as losing fish by moving them to a smaller pond, not necessarily, especially this time of year. With water temps falling, their metabolism is dropping as is their need for food. Oxygen levels shouldn't be a problem in colder water where colder water can hold more oxygen unless the holding pond has unique problems. I may be wrong but I doubt you have much ice where you're at?

Last spring I moved fish I wanted to save in a .62 acre pond I had to drain, to a 1/10th acre pond with no problems whatsoever. These were large perch and bluegills mind you, not bass. 100 10 to 12 inch yellow perch and about 25 8 to 10 inch bluegills were moved back in early summer, but a good amount were still in the small pond when I drained it and I moved them back in the fall. One bluegill went from a lb. to 1 lb. 5 oz. in that small pond!

I dumped in some fatheads from the big pond and they reproduced like crazy and gave the fish something to eat over the summer. So much so they went off the pellets.

Wow Mark... Sorry to hear it had to come to this! Best of luck in the process! It will be tough to maintain the ponds balance. However this should solve your bullhead problem...

Hey Mark, I second that you're doing the right thing, and applaud your resolve. I would say not to worry about saving the catfish unless you really are fond of them; they just take away a lot of the pellets from the bluegill, in addition to becoming very hook-shy.

Fixing the pond is quite a bit more important than saving the fish. Pond is permanent, fish are not. They are easy to get rolling again!

If you think you have too many for a smaller pond, clean the rest and freeze them. You'll probably have a few good fish fries extra...Just a thought

Mark, if the pond doesn't ice over, you might even try moving the feeder to the smaller pond while you have the fish in there, and running it once a day for two or three seconds. The bluegill might take to eating the food well in the more crowded conditions. I have two ponds I'm working with at the moment in which the bluegill are overpopulated, and they're still eating the pellets like it was the middle of July most days. If they don't eat at all after two or three days, they're probably not going to, but if they do, then they would probably continue eating the pellet food well once you move them back to the larger pond.

Walt, our water temps are in the 50's and it was mostly geese eating the pellets. I never had the good swarms of fish feeding like I should have. it looked like geese, grass carp and bullheads mostly so i quit feeding for the season. It will be very interesting to see what actually lives there when we drain it.

I personally would either leave the grass carp in the small pond permanently, or reallocate their biological profile to garden fertilizer, so they can't eat any more pellets. Big grass carp will bully bluegill away from the pellets. You won't need them if you're able to get a decent bloom going next spring. I suppose it goes without saying that the bullheads won't be returning - no need to even put them in the small pond, straight to fertilizer.

Speaking of, you might think about liming while you have the big pond drained, kill two birds at the same time.

I mentioned trying feeding in the small pond precisely because you've had trouble getting the bluegill to eat at the feeder in the big pond. Bluegill always go after pellet food more aggressively when crowded; probably they weren't crowded in the big pond, but they will probably be so in the small pond, hence my suggestion. It might still not work due to the time of year, but I do have three different ponds right now in which the bluegill are still killing the food, because they're overpopulated in those ponds. Might not work, just a thought I had. In any event I think it's awesome you're going all-in and fixing the leak. Just having the higher water level once it fills fully, will make a big difference for the fish and in what you can do with the pond.

My water temps were 48-49F last Saturday and the BG and HSB were still feeding on pellets.

Correction. Yor water temp was 48.2 and the HSB were feeding on Golden Shiners!

OK on the 48.2F, but they were eating pellets before we stocked the shiners.

That is awesome. Glad to know I'm not crazy for wanting to feed all winter.

Walt,

Don't discount any potential positives of dying water regarding phytoplankton blooms. Believe it or not I know a perch producer in Ohio (also an extension agent) that once told me he dyes his ponds in the spring - I believe right after filling and fertilization. Not sure what concentration, but he claims it keeps down the macrophytes and as the dye breaks down the phytoplankton takes hold. Sounds contrary to everything we are told but it apparently works for him. He produces some nice perch and perch fry need zooplankton quite early as the broodstock are early spring spawners.

The alkilinity and ph were Ok. I dont remember the exact numbers and tried to look back on my posts to find them but couldn't. I guess I should take a soil sample after mixing in the bentonite to determine the soil ph. I just wonder how much lime I should put on the bottom before refilling?

I believe two tons per acre is the standard recommendation.

Interesting info, Cecil...

It will be a great chance to sort out the pond. I envision a huge fish fry as well. There is no way we can net and move 2 ac. worth of fish. I just hope for a decent survival rate on the biggest fish. It will be sad to lose a lot of fish though as I have really nurtured them and taken great pains to get a balanced and healthy population.

It's contrary to common sense isn't it? I may just contact him again and get specifics. If so I can post it here if you want.

Information is always good to have.

ML BRown get your pond bottom soil tested. You may not need lime if you have good soil and the only way to know is to test. For example - if you felt fine , did not have a fever ,and had no signs of a health problem I don't think you would go to the medicine cabinet and start taking stuff without checking with your doctor. Lime is a wonderful tool in the right circumstances just like medicines but used improperly it can cause problems.

Agree Eric. Liming is a tool used to correct deficiencies. No deficiency, no need to lime.

Mark fertilized several times during the summer trying to get a plankton bloom, without success. He tested his alkalinity and it was 40, which of course is not drastically low, but is well below the ideal range. I was taking all of this information that I already had about Mark's pond into account when I made the liming suggestion.

I for one would be very interested in the specifics. I'm always up for learning new things about ponds.

I emailed him. I'll post his response. Hopefully we'll hear something soon but with a holiday coming up it may not be until next week. As I said he's an extension agent and works out of Ohio State University.

Sounds good, looking forward to it.

Yeah me too. Thanks everybody and happy Thansgiving.

Walt, you remebered more than me. I thought the alkilinity was 60 but I couldnt find the post,

I went back in my e-mails and found it, Mark - don't give my memory that much credit:)

I can't even remeber where to find my emails? LMAO

If you have google or yahoo you can do a search by keyword, such as "alkalinity," and it will search your inbox, sent messages, all of your e-mails - good feature, comes in handy at times.

We successfully drained the pond this weekend and was quite surprised that there were no CC in there at all. They were all bullheads! If you remember my original stocking in the new pond was 200 CC from Zett's fish hatchery in WV and they claimed there was no way they could have mistaken BH for CC. Guess what Zett's- you screwed it up!

Did you move any of the fish ? Good luck with the fix.

We saved all the 4 year old bass and larger BG. I am not sure how many will survive the move and subsequent restocking though. The water was muddy and oxygen was depleted at the end. many smaller BG and LMB died unfortunately. We left all the BH and a couple of huge grass carp to die. We did the absolute best we could.

All in all I would say it was a success. I will let you know when we transfer them back. I dont know what they will have for froage in my little 1/4 pond with only 4' depth.

Believe it or not the fish you thought died may have been revivable. I had a situation where when I drained a pond down the remaining fish that weren't seined stirred up the mud and became stunned. When moved immediately to fresh water they were revived.

The mud that is kicked up can stir up gases and of course uses up oxygen. There was a Native American tribe that actually harvested fish from a river backwater in Ohio this way. They would stir up the bottom bringing up methane gas by pulling a large rock behind a canoe. As the stunned fish came up they would capture them.

Pulling a large rock behind a canoe?

I was also thinking of available space. The pond I drained was 2.16 ac. and the pond I put them in to hold is only about 1/4 acre and it was really muddy as well. We drained water from the big upper pond into the lower pond. I just hope to be able to transport some of the 5 yr. old LMB back into the pond when we refill it so I dont have to start over.

Another concern when I get to that point will be what kind of balance will I have? I started the pond new and had a pretty good balance going. I'm sure it will take some thinking to get the population right again.

When you transfer the fish back, if you really wanted to you could weigh/measure/tag all the big ones and log all the info.

At least you'll know exactly what is in the pond when you're finished! It shouldn't be that hard to get it back in balance.

I guess it depends on how large the rock is eh?

I did read this in a historical account somewhere.

Also on how namy paddlers are in the canoe. If memory serves me right, there were some pretty big canoes made!

There were approximately 15 - 4lb. LMB in the pond from my original stocking of 200 fry in Sept '05. I thought that was a bit low. We could have lost fish because we started the drawdown and the pond froze for a few weeks and the guy I hired to do it started draining the water off the top and not the bottom. I feel like he drained alot of the oxygenated top layer off and left the fissh with less oxygenated water to live in. All with a slid layer of ice on top.

There were only 3 of 8 grass carp left from the original 8 i stocked in '07 I think. they were impressive. From 8" to 3' in that short of time. that is why i suspect i may of had some fish kill this winter during the drawdown.

I didn't know the contractor had started the drawdown or i would have had him at least until the ice melted. catching and moving those fish using feed buckets and Rhinos was like a Chineese fire drill. Unless someone can tell me a better way it will be really hard to catch, weigh, measure and move them again without significant mortality.