Updated Weekly

Thanks Dwight. Neat chart and info.

I feel the need to dispense with "freak" for something more appropriate, yet I find myself at a loss.

Super freak?

I need something with a little more panache.

Animals, can you help me?

Since I was one of the few to offer the hand of friendship to our pal Animals, I contacted him, and he said that you all are just a bunch of butt-sniffers - Sunil, would that work?

I feel like there is probably some sort of inside joke functioning in this thread, and that it would not be prudent to inquire as to its specifics.

Animals! Come out to play!

By the way....I still hate you guys.

Walt, not really and inside joke, but a thing of the past.

Here it is:
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=5480&Number=50149#Post50149

If it weren't for Animals, we wouldn't have toaster oven companies advertising in PBMag.

You guys are all in denial! Especially you Sunil! This freak thinks that chart is friggin awesome and wants the template! I know that the rest of you want it too but are afraid to admit it.

Dwight, I keep timing out and can't open the link.

I couldnt open the link either,and Sunils link has me really confused.

Barnes1 you're just a whiny punk.

There I said it. I'm normally an easy going guy, full of humor, quick to smile. I get along with almost everybody.

But there's something about your whiny "I want answers now" attitude that just brings out one of my violent personalities. A smoldering serial killer type of guy. The last guy you want to meet, the last guy you ever will meet.

I'm going to hunt you Barnes1. I'm going to stalk you like a 12 point buck. I'm going be like a leopard in the Savannah grass. You'll never see me. You'll never hear me. You'll wander by like an innocent Gazelle grazing on spring grass and I'll rise up and I'll rip your throat out.

I hate you Barnes1. I hate you bad.

Jeffhasashovel

Bring it on, punk.

I'm heading to Redmond Barney Boy.

I'm going to polish my square point shovel with the juice I squeeze from your Pancreas.

Jeffhasashovel

{SERIAL KILLER MODE OFF}

Dwight the link doesn't work for me either.

{SERIAL KILLER MODE ON}

Link doesn't work for me either now. Did yesterday. Too bad, you guys are really missing out. This is cutting edge pond data recording at it's finest!

Hey Dwight,
I love that chart. It's interesting to me to watch your dissolved oxygen NOT be depleted from the bottom, yet. Is that a characteristic of a gravel pit-type pond?
That data will help you make some great decisions, especially when it comes to mixing warmwater fish with cool water fish and the possibility of cold water fish, all existing in the same pond, but in different habitats.
By the way, Dwight conspired with Dr. Willis to write a story about the birth of Bremer Pond. It took 8 years to be born, for those of you who don't know Dwight's story. The story is in the next issue of Pond Boss magazine. By the way, the July-August issue marks the beginning of our 18th year.

I get the chart to download sometimes and not others - I suspect a server bogging down somewhere.

Totally unrelated, did you know 9 of 10 serial killers are incontinent?

There was a server problem today caused by someone whacking through a fiber line. It took a while to get everything rerouted. Later after the fiber link was repaired there was another short service drop while the original route was restored.

This is why Sunil isn’t allowed to use as trenching machine!

1940 hours and I just got the graph to come up, weird.

Dwight, have a good time working while I am up at Geneva for the week drinking icey cold cocktails and making the fish have sore lips.

Read the Animals thread. LMAO (hope I don't get slammed for profanity in the form of an acronym). And, I sincerely hope said moniker is an alter ego, because otherwise, well, some wires have been crossed in that CPU.

Bob -
That is a great question that I cannot answer. It could be a characteristic of a pit-type pond. It could be a characteristic of a pit-type pond located within 300 feet of a river with the attendant fluctuations in the ground water level. Observe, observe, observe....



There is so much to learn!



18 years is a great start, I bet there is a lot more to come.

A glimpse at DD's future signature line:
"Subscriber to PCMag since before it was 3-D"

I love the chart, Dwight, and envy the time you get to spend on your pond!

Question 1 - what type of DO meter do you use, and do you like it?

Question 2 - is your chart copyrighted, and if so, do you mind allowing me to blatantly enfringe and employ a chart like this for my own use?

I am using a DO200. It is the only D.O. meter I have ever used so I like it. It is easy to operate.


If you would like, I can e-mail the spreadsheet to you. PM me and we can arrange it.

Im afraid to post again until JHAP turns off the serial killer mode.

I KNOW hes already looking for me.

I've ALREADY wacked 2 of his agents.And they WERE crouched down in the tall grass.
P.S. I think Sunil is on the list too.

{SERIAL KILLER MODE OFF}

There, happy Tom?

********************************************************

Dwight I converted your chart to a jpeg file and saved it in my photobucket so I could post it here. If you object to this please PM me and I'll remove it.

Please note: the clarity of chart became dimished somewhat in the conversion process.



I think this chart is a great illustration of the fact that cold water can hold more oxygen. As the surface water increases the TDO decreases, very interesting to actually see it displayed.

Dwight, this feels like a stupid question, but is the clarity depth in inches? In other words did you have 155 inches in clarity on 06/18? If so that's almost 13 feet!

JHAP - Yes, the clarity is in inches and yes about 13 feet.

I use the PDF format because of the excellent resolution for printing the chart and zooming in on a particular set of data points.

So, you may have created a new summer job for yourself converting to JPEG and posting on Photo Bucket each week.

Dwight, great stuff all around...

JHAP, thanks for putting it in graph form. Really helps bring it to life. Wonderful work!

CJ, I can't take any credit for the graph. That is all Dwight. All I did was convert it from one file type (.pdf = adobe) to another file type (.jpg) and reduce the file size, and then uploaded it to my photobucket.

Ah... Well, none the less great work. Thanks for putting it out there for all to see. Gives everyone some ideas for what they can do at their ponds. It is neat to track water temps, DO etc through the months and even year to year.

thanks Dwight! I'm envious of your 13' clarity - down here with our clay soils in Lincoln 36" is pretty solid.

Do you have tons of aquatic vegetation, then?

Yes, I estimate that currently submergent vegetation covers 30-40 percent of the pond bottom area. The weed lines and weed flats are well defined and bounded by sand and gravel areas that don't support plant growth.

Great chart.I might also add Im jelous,as I struggle to get 13 inches of claity in my pond.

Is Jeffs killer mode still off?

06 25 09 Update Big changes this week.

The heat is on! Theo or Sunil can comment on the music reference?

The temps are up, DO has to go down, and clarity dropping as the phytoplankton kick in. Man, it has been a cool (temperature) year.

How obscure are you getting? Glenn Frey or Agnetha Fältskog?

I knew Agentha did The heat is on; I thought Glenn did Fly like an Eagle.

Mr. Willis, I can send ya some relief from the cool temps.

Canned Heat?

I continue to be amazed by the charts and info. Absolutely outstanding work.


Canned Heat

Going Up The Country


I'm going up the country, baby don't you wanna go
I'm going up the country, baby don't you wanna go

I'm going to some place where I've never been before
I'm going, I'm going where the water tastes like wine

Well I'm going where the water tastes like wine

We can jump in the water, stay drunk all the time

I'm gonna leave this city, got to get away

I'm gonna leave this city, got to get away

All this fussing and fighting, man, you know I sure can't stay

Now baby, pack your leaving trunk, you know we've got to leave today

Just exactly where we're going I cannot say, but We might even leave

the USA 'Cause there's a brand new game that I want to play

No use of you running, or screaming and crying

'Cause you've got a home as long as I've got mine

Y'all take it easy on Glenn......

Theo, I just don't have your depth. I only knew about Glenn Frey.

Burger -- no thanks. We were 90 the past two days, and that's plenty.

Write this down, Dr. Dave: G-O-O-G-L-E.

Dang, you engineers are GOOD!

I didn't know that ewest was at Woodstock. In the Movie, he is the naked boy splashing in the muddy pool. A sign of things to come, pond-wise, that is.

--

I probably should know better than to admit this publicly, but I did see Canned Heat as the opening act for a Steppenwolf concert back when I was in college. Also, it was darn good.

P.S. Dwight: have we stuck with the original content for this thread?

With Weekly readings, I can steer it back every week.

Dark Water 07 01 Update

All is well on Bremer Pond! Your LMB should be putting on the feedbag!

It looks like all the lines are heading to a single point where we can expect a creation event - like a 10 lb LMB.

Convergence?

An event of epic proportions.

Big changes in the D.O. this week, though still at about 90% of saturation

Updated Weekly

You can see the result of the plankton (reduction in clarity) and bottom BOD on the DOs including the start of stratification (bottom DOs dropping much faster than top DOs). Thanks again Dwight.

Interesting turn of events.
Weekly Update

Yes, that is an interesting little increase in oxygen. One overview point, though, is that you still are at 8 ppm for dissolved oxygen in the middle of summer. No water quality problems for you!!

What a great place for rapid summer fish growth. Temps 73 to 76 with DOs from 8.1 to 8.9. What do you think caused the increase in DOs at depth (ground water inflow , increased plankton , wind , circulator or other) ?

SO have air temps been cooler as well? STarange cooler in mid July than late June. Sorry have not followed closely you aeration running right?

There has been enough rain to raise the ground water level and increase the ground water in-flow. It has been windy and the air temperatures have been down.

The circulator isn’t used in the open water period. It is only used in the winter to keep the water open around the dock/barge; no aeration.

I returned from our week long family fishing trip and once unloaded, I proceeded to do the Updated Weekly.

Looks like your plankton is in reduction mode.

It looks like the plankton are at it again!

Updated Weekly

Better break out the glow in the dark buzzbaits!!

Dwight -- do you get any blue-greens in midsummer, or is this the green algae again?

There has been blue green some summers when the temperatures are more normal(warmer). It is green again.

75 looks like a magic Temp. That is a big visibility change in a week with no temp change. What else happened? Rain , wind , lots of sun after a few cloudy days ? How about a pic of the water?

Updated Weekly

The weather has been pretty much stable this past week.

Why does the clarity change so much week to week:
Ground water flow increases and decreases?
Clear sunny days increase plant oxygen production?
Plankton mini-blooms occurring rapidly over a short time span?
None of the above?
All of the above?
Some other reason?

Why take weekly readings that raise all these questions?

Interesting - light penetration went up so plankton production of O2 at depth went up while surface O2 stayed the same.

"Why does the clarity change so much week to week:
Ground water flow increases and decreases?
Clear sunny days increase plant oxygen production?
Plankton mini-blooms occurring rapidly over a short time span?
None of the above?
All of the above?
Some other reason?"

All of the above and other reasons , wind , predation by fish on plankton , increase/decrease in nutrients , plankton cycle timing.

As the clarity continues to increase the bottom D.O. is tracking right along with it. Higher temperatures at mid-range depth and at the surface cause a slight dip in the D. O. at those depths.

We are having the warmest air and water temperatures of the summer, currently. It is the perfect time for bottom D.O. to be increasing though I imagine that is quite a rare occurrence for most ponds.

Updated Weekly

No thermocline forming in your pond. Optimum growth period for the fish with those water qualities.

Hey Doc Dave; this is textbook quality stuff.

Hey DD -- Dwight and I might just have a little connection here. Stay tuned for the next issue of Pond Boss magazine and Bremer Pond II. Dwight's a worker bee. If you hadn't already spilled the beans about the quality of his work, I would have been trying to recruit him back to grad school. Wink.

No offense to DD and Doc Dave, but textbooks and I have never had much in common.

We finally got some rain during the last 36 hours. The rain along with the winds that came with it caused at least some of the reduction in clarity this week. Temperatures and D.O. have converged top to bottom due to the winds and cloud cover for the same period.

Weekly Update

Dwight do you know the temp of the rain ? If colder than the surface it will sink carrying its increased DO down with it. Thus moving everything toward equilibrium but possibly reducing visibility.

Rain temperature? Air temperature plus or minus 5 degrees?

Interesting question... How close to the air temp does the rain temp end up being when it hits the water?

I think the answer to that is "it depends". Depending on how high in the clouds the rain originates, it's temperature could be close to air temp down to below freezing (hail). A friend has pics from South Dakota a few weeks ago of hail that was baseball sized. The hail stuck around on the ground for almost 2 hours before it all melted, even with the rain that accompanied it. The air temp was in the high 80's before the storm.

I suppose now I will need to build a falling rain temperature monitor that takes continuous readings with per minute averages sampled at a distance of 1 inch above the pond water surface.

I can visualize such a device.

No you can just send Tan out in the rain to check on the dock and when he comes back to the door check the water on his fur.

I haven't told anyone, but Tan likes to swim in the pond.

A cat that likes to swim in the pond... WOW!

Our cat Conan (that passed away a couple of years ago) loved water. I had an indoor fountain in my office. One day while working in my office I heard a strange noise and peered around the file cabinets only to see Conan sitting in the bottom pool of the fountain and batting at the water as it cascaded down the fountain. He was all wet as was the wall behind the fountain. The indoor fountain became an outdoor fountain the next day.

I was barraged by Sweat Bees while taking my D.O. ETC. readings this afternoon. I probably killed 50 of the little beestards in that ½ hour period. I have never seen so many out here. There are always a few, but this is new to me! If you swat one dead and toss it in the water BG are ready an willing to cleanup the mess. I hope they don't get stomach aches.

Updated Weekly

Wow look at the top DO pattern and its correlation with your plankton bloom's phasing (clarity). Another neat aspect of the graph. Thanks Dwight.

This is very interesting stuff Dwight... Thanks for continuing to share it.

It looks like water temperatures are on the down slope for this year.

Updated Weekly

Updated Weekly

Not much change this week though the bottom D.O is lower. I am supposing that this is caused by aquatic plants that are dying off and decomposing at or near the bottom.

Gone fishin' up nort until next D.O. reading day!

Looks like another smaller spike in plankton bloom to me in a few days as reflected by the reduction in clarity curve and temps.

You could be right. I sample two reservoirs in Central Iowa weekly and in the last 2 weeks there has been a large shift in algae community composition from being dominated by green algaes to mostly diatoms. The cool weather could have also caused the same change in Bremer pond. This shift in algae usually causes a noticeable color change in the water to more of a brown appearance. I wonder if Dwight observed this?

I can't help but look at the graph and wonder when Dwight will get a truckload of trout to feed Darlene.

So THAT'S why the water changes from green to brownish in the Fall!!! Gotta file that away for next year.

That is interesting. As I track the water temps on my lake I have noticed that a fluctuation in water temp, even down lower, seems to make for less clarity, more types of algae. I always assumed in the past it was just the warm/hotter water would cause more algae, but that is not the case is it?

There are many types of plankton and algae, Some are cooler water varieties. Dwight has an obvious pattern of peaks and troughs in plankton production during the warm water period that are positively related to temp spikes and causing O2 to go up.

Updated Weekly

While I was out there I placed the geese-repeller in the center of the pond.

Thanks for buying the repeller on the auction, Dwight. Let us know how it works.

Tell Gail once more how glad we were to meet her at PBIII. It was our pleasure!!

I was surprised that I was the only bidder on that unit. Maybe my $100 starting bid scared others away (bid-repeller). I will keep the forum informed as to effectiveness.

Dwight looks like another spike in the plankton bloom. Has the color changed yet ? It is going to be interesting to see at what water temp the bloom stops/reduces to winter color. Man that is a healthy pond on a great looking bloom pattern.

The color hasn't changed. I am going to continue monitoring until ice prevents the Barge from going to the deep spot. About two weeks later, I will be able to walk over to the deep spot.

The week in-between you can belly crawl

Some of those little kids' floaties on your arms might be a good insurance plan.

I better lose some weight before I attempt a belly crawl on the ice. I would hate to be high centered out there until spring!

Dwight then you could act like a seal and flop back to shore. I think the barge is a better idea. Man its going to be cold checking that system during winter. Bill will love you for the info.

Normally Tan will go for a swim when I take the weekly readings. Today he put a paw in the water and curled up on the sunny side of the Barge. I think that means the seasons are a changing.

Updated Weekly

Temps down , plankton reducing and DOs up. Sounds like Tan knows his business.

We had our first frost of the season last night. There was a layer of ice on the bird baths this morning. I am fired up to get out on the pond and take some readings, but alas, I have a meeting today.

I hate it when work interferes with Pond.

Major changes in the last 7 days!

Since last weeks report we have had 2 rain events and 2.25 inches of rain. It has been overcast and cool most of that period and we have had significant winds on several occasions.

The water temperature has dropped and the D.O. has increased significantly. Clarity has been stable.

Updated Weekly

I just goes to show that cooler water can hold more D.O.

That divergence means that fall turnover is eminent or may be occurring now given the even temps at all depths.

This is one great project to learn the life of a pond over a year.

So, over the year, the most difference between surface and bottom temp was about 10-12 F, right? That's not a big difference? Result of a northern pond, or result of a pond built into the ground water?

My guess would be mostly ground water influence.

My question is with the GW influence how do the DOs stay high as most GW is low in DO.

Ewest -- that is the 60 million dollar question. As you know, our groundwater pits are by far the most likely to resist winterkill. I don't know if there is some amount of oxgyen at the upper limit of the ground water? Or, could it just be the movement that allows some oxygen to become mixed at the upper limit? I just don't know. We sure see the results, and having Dwight verify these things long-term has been great for all of us.

I think an excellent exam question would be for advanced students to explain the results as shown on that chart . What is occuring in the pond at several points in time.

I believe the ground water flow is much higher through the pond than normal (for a pond dug into the water table) because the Rock River runs adjacent to the pond. Those additive influences really hustle the water through the pond and stabilize the water temperatures top to bottom.

The year-around high D. O. levels top to bottom are a puzzle the pond inhabitants enjoy. I suspect that for some reason the ground water in the area has a high oxygen content. I need to sample the few shallow wells that are left on nearby properties to see if that may be true.

I don't have a DO meter, but if a well doesn't have any DO, how much DO would be added to the water by splashing out from the faucet if it was run into a laundry tub/sink?

My well sucks from 66' down, and I if I fill the laundry tub 50% with water, 3 CC will survive 12 hrs+. One 15" LMB lasted about as long and if 6 BG, 8" or so long are put in there, they will still be swimming the next morning (about 12 hrs.) No piping at the surface either. Temp is 52* or so.

I don't think the splashing would affect the DO levels appreciably.

Fish can survive low DO levels for short periods of time. What ever oxygen is available in your well water must be enough for the short periods you are talking about.

IIRC Condello has run PBRs with a load of fish living on no aeration of well water other than a small spray hitting the surface. That IS adding about as much O2 to the well water from flow as would be possible, I would guess.

I am looking forward to this weeks readings, should be some changes with the polar ice cap that we are experiencing. Best to wear your heavy gear and a PFD when out on the barge!!!

The chart has been extended out a few more weeks.

There will be a period when the pond ices over (2 inches or less) that it will still navigable with the Barge in ice breaker mode. After that the ice will be unsafe to walk on for a period of time, but I have a plan.

I believe the plankton are pretty much done for the year unless we have a major heat wave.

Updated Weekly

"Dwight Bremer Explores the Northwest Passage"
(film at eleven)

Ice breaker mode. I like stuff that is over engineered.

If you recall, the trolling motors are recessed so they nor their shafts can be damaged by a bit of ice breaking.

Anyone drawn any profound conclusions from this chart? I have not, but it is cool. I would like to be fishing there with a cooler full of live eight inch river shiners and a medium heavy slip bobber set. I believe Darlene and her sisters are loading up for winter now.

You ought to know that Dwight doesn't dirty up his Corona coolers with anything that is slimy, isn't prepackaged or doesn't come in convenient 24 to a case libations.

Or he drills holes in them to make a livewell. Actually in the old days, I have seen his cooler quite sloughish with empty beer cans, mixed with NP for the cutting board, and some ice leavings.

2 questions one comment.

1. Can we see a pic of the ice breaker barge in plow mode ?

2. Temps down at all depths , DOs up at all depths all while there is less plankton producing O2. Where is the extra O2 coming from or is the water just holding that much extra O2 ? If yes to the water holding that much extra O2 then is the BOD down that much ?

Comment - this continues to be a great study in how ponds work. What is shown on the chart and understanding why the factors change and how they are related is a great learning event.

I know Ewest knows this, as do most regulars. However, just a reminder to new readers that dissolved oxygen saturation changes with water temperature. Colder water has a higher level of dissolved oxygen saturation. Speaking very generaly, when Dwight's water is about 75 F, oxygen saturation is about 8.5 parts per million. At 45 F, saturation is about 12 ppm.

This D.O. thing is something I need to understand better. Will look at the archives this winter.

1)I will take a photo or two when and if the Barge is in breaker mode. It all depends on how the ice forms.

2)There are multiple casual factors working the D.O. this time of the year.

The water is holding a lot more O2 because of the temperature decrease.

The BOD has and continues to ease. Most of the summer submergent plant life has already decomposed and disappeared.

The remaining submergent plant life does produce O2 as photosynthesis continues at a lower pace than the warm water period.

The higher level pond dwellers are slowing their pace because of the cold water thus reducing the amount waste products they produce.

We have continued having rain events which tend to increase the O2 levels.

At least that is the way I see it.

Dwight you are getting very good at this project including your analysis. I hope you will keep it up so we have a full years data.

I have all of the data from December 2008 to the present. I plan to continue collecting this data for another year. If one year is good, 2 must be better, right?

Yes, especially with as squirrely is this year's weather has been... Very good stuff Dwight!

The temperature remains the same top to bottom though 1 degree cooler than last week. Clarity increased to over 9 feet. D.O. remains saturated top to bottom.

It is good to go into the winter months with oxygen at saturation levels.

Updated Weekly

Do high D.O. levels equal increased growth rates?

Low DO's stress fish and if to low become fatal. Fish under stress do not grow as well as those in optimum surroundings. The question becomes what is the optimum DO range for a fish species. Also keep in mind that DOs effect water quality as well as fish respiration. With better water quality there are less water related non-DO stressors (water quality stressors other than low DO such as high N or ammonia) present and thus the better the conditions for good growth.

In other words:

All things being equal, fish should grow faster in a high D.O. environment versus a low D.O. environment.

Updated Weekly

We have had some warmer weather, a little more rain, and a lot of wind(yesterday).

I wonder if all those critters reduced the visibility?

I suppose they could reduce it due to shear numbers.

Updated Weekly

The drop in clarity is apparently caused (as ewest surmised) by the hatch/bloom of some tiny little critters Swimmin in the Light. This hatch/bloom has expanded since the original photos. I hope to have more information on these critters after the analysis is returned from (super secret entity).

Interesting stuff ! Why would the clarity and DO both be down in cooler water unless something is using up the O2 and giving off CO2 and/or something that was giving off O2 has decreased?

zooplankters, zooplankters

My thoughts exactly - 150 Billion of them.

It appears that the zooplankter population continues to expand as the clarity dropped significantly this week. D.O. has remained stable and water temperatures have increased a couple degrees top to bottom. We have had above average air temperatures this past week that have warmed the water and possibly caused expanded zooplankton production.

Updated Weekly

I now have nearly a years worth of data and can report that the following averages. I didn’t expect that the average D.O. and water temperature would be almost identical top to bottom.

Yearly Averages:

Clarity: 79.8
Surface D.O. 10.8
Mid Level D.O. 10.7
Bottom D.O. 10.6
Surface Temp 53.4
Mid Level Temp 53.8
Bottom Temp 53.7

After exhaustive study of Bremer Pond readings, and researching long range weather forecasts, I have determined that he will have total ice coverage, (except for circulated area) at 0300 on December 2, 2009. Do you think I can persuade him to stay up that late to experience this occurence?

We are getting close to the coldest water being on the surface and the warmest on the bottom. Ice will then be inevitable.

Updated Weekly

Dwight - are your Clarity measurements in inches - centimeters? Obviously they are not in feet since you have some readings in the low 100's.

They are inches. 1 inch = 2.54 centimeter

One key to interpreting this chart , at least for pond biology matters, is generally to equate reductions in clarity to plankton blooms. Note the temp changes that occur with them and the effect on DOs. Thanks Dwight for your efforts on this project.

I spent most of the afternoon on the pond this afternoon. The temps were in the low 50s and 0-4 mph winds. Pretty for November 27th.

Updated Weekly

Okay so I was one day off on my ice prediction. I'll try to do better next year. Time to sharpen the ice jigs!!!

After having record cold this year, Nov. has been above average here. First time since I built the pond ice free in Dec.
Cold coming tonight.

Looks like a very tranquil place/pond, adiriondack!

My 50 acres are almost totally bordered by Adirondack forest preserve.
After growing up in N.J. I wanted a place that no one could crowd me out of.
My wife says I'm anti-social, but I really don't hate everyone.

Any fall color pics AP ? I bet a nice reflection of fall color in the pond.

Hey Eric, didn't get good ones this year, the season went too fast.
Here's one from 2007.

Thanks AP - that is just what I expected - beautiful.

Updated Weekly

We had open water on Thursday and 2 days later we have 2 inches of clear ice. Last year on this date I believe we had around 7 inches.

It is officially winter on Bremer Pond.

That top temp can't go down much more !

The surface water temp will get down to 32 degrees as the ice goes through the transformation from warm ice to cold ice.

Interesting that the top DO is up from last week but the mid and bottom DOs have stabilized. Anyone know the saturation %s on those DOs.

If you page down toward the bottom of this link there is a chart that will answer that question.

D. O.

Neat link Dwight. Thanks.

The next "Updated Weekly" will be the winter version with ice thickness rather than clarity.

Water clarity is pretty much clear top to bottom for the duration of winter. It is difficult to get a good Secchi disk reading when ice and snow cover limit the available underwater light. I will still monitor the water clarity around the Barge for any obvious change, but the depth there is only 5-6 feet. If I can stand on the Barge and not see the bottom, I'll take reading. That probably won't happen though.

The "Updated Weekly" graph and data will remain and a new "Winter Updated Weekly" will arrive on the scene.

Happy Winter, everyone!

I don't understand the idea of warm ice and cold ice. Am I stoopid or is this something new? Isn't anyone else wondering about this, or is it a Dwight conceptual hypothisis deal that I should not worry about

Warm ice is formed when the water temperature is in the mid 30 range and is too warm to freeze. When the air temperature plunges the ice that results (up to 2-3 inches) is a low density or warm ice.

Warm ice will transform into cold ice as the water temperatures drop. During this process the ice contracts (becoming denser). Evidence of this contraction is the stress cracks that form and the attendant water flow up on top of the ice pack.

Once the ice pack has transformed ice thickness will increase at a rapid rate.

I am probably one of the few true ice observers out there that actually monitor the process week to week and document it. How weird a interest is that?

It could be weirder. You don't own a zamboni, do you?

I prefer rough ice to smooth ice, so no Zamboni here.

Are you saying that the ice next to the water is warmer than the ice exposed to air?

No, this is about the transitional period when ice first forms.

You question warrants further discussion more suited to the dead of winter. During that period ice expands and contracts due to the variance in water temperature, air temperature, and water level changes.

The ice on the water side should be warmer since it is butted up against 34 degree water, and colder on the air side butted up against the cold temperatures.

"A mind changed against it's will, is of the same opinion still"

Well, that would depend on the day, wouldn't it?

So how cold has it been? The ice has been building at a rate of a little more of an inch per day. 6 days to go from 2 inches of ice to 8.25 inches!

Winter Updated Weekly

The next question is have you been ice fishing yet?

No ice fishing by anyone so far.

How hard was it to take the last weekly readings and how did you accomplish the task ?

When the ice was two inches (last week), I walked out there and bored holes (by hand) along the way checking the ice thickness. When I reached the reading coordinates I bored another hole and took the readings. That was all there was to that. I did have a safety rope tied around my waist and had my ice picks around my neck, just in case. Two inches of clear ice on the pond is plenty strong for one person.

This week I drove the Mule out there and power auger-ed a bunch of holes around the pound checking the thickness. It was 8.25" everywhere that I checked. The Mule is probably safe on 5-6 inches though I don't go out there unless it is 7 and I prefer 8.

So other than the modes of transportation and the need to bore a hole in the winter its pretty easy to accomplish. I have a lot of experience which helps.

The ice is now thick enough to drive a road vehicle on and I suspect the stick will be the first to do so, early next week.

With D.O. readings all near the saturation level we are in good shape for another long cold winter. I would prefer a cool short winter. It seems we are in several year extended period of below normal year-around temperatures.

Winter Updated Weekly

Now that the ice is thick enough to drive on, could you review your fishing rules by specie? I think others on the forum may be interested. Did you want me to do a stomach contents check on a LMB?

Ok, we'll see if they are interested.

First off, there are very few persons that are allowed to fish on Bremer Pond. These "rules" are only meant for those select few and all others are summarily banned from fishing on Bremer Pond.

Dwight - You really have Topeka shiners? Have they been verified by Dr. Dave? Topeka shiners site specific spawners and normally spawn around the edges of GSF and orange spotted sunfish nests often but not always in streams. Their midwestern distribution is rather limited and it would be really interesting if you have then surviving in your pond.

Interesting! Dwight, what are your goals for your pond (fishery wise)?

We are located in a Topeka Shiner corridor in southwest Minnesota. No bait fish are allowed to be removed from any of the area waters ; streams, rivers and lakes.

If you want to know more PM me, the DNR may be monitoring the forum.

My fishery goals are quite simple in my mind. The problem I have is explaining them to some else.

Try this: A balanced fishery with large game fish on natural forage in a balanced pond environment.

See what I mean! The explanation of what that means and how it works would take a lot more words.

Winter Updated Weekly

This weeks big Snow Storm made taking the measurements more of a challenge. Actually the challenge was getting to the observation location.

I learned that a Mule with chains is only good up to about 2 feet of snow and even then it functions more like a snow paddle boat. It rides on the skid plates with all the wheels churning away. Steering becomes becomes more point and hope (you know like Metro-Plex Texans on ice) than actual steering. And yes, I did so some shoveling!

I was concerned that no one was interested in this thread anymore. I monitored how many times the thread was viewed. 139 views in 44 hours. It takes very little positive reinforcement to keep me going, but I was surprised that there were that many views.

For what it's worth Dwight, I usually read the updates on the email since I subscribe to this thread. Probably doesn't count as a view this way, but know that I, for one and probably others as well, stay updated this way.

I sure follow this info. It always has some point that makes me think about what I am seeing and what it means. Like this time an initial surprise of the relationship of the DOs and that they were dropping and that top DOs were highest followed by mid and then bottom. Then I remembered that the colder the water the more DO it will hold. That accounts for the relationship but not that all 3 were falling while the water cools. Better look and think some more.

Also the ice build has really slowed.

The water had cooled a least a week before the DO levels started to fall in unison.

I believe that both the DO drop and the slowed build in ice are due to the heavy snow cover. Snow cover reduces the light that penetrates the water thus reducing the photosynthesizing ability of plant life. The heavy snow cover also insulates the pond from the cold air temperatures.

A case can also be made that the DO levels are at their peak when the ice cover becomes permanent(for the duration of the current winter). When clear ice builds rapidly it traps excess DO under the ice that will dissipate rapidly if snow cover intervenes in the photosynthesizing process. The peak DO readings were at or above saturation levels during rapid early ice build.

--

When you can take the pebble from my hand it will be time ...

Grasshopper it is time for you to go ...

Appx quote from Master Kan to Kwai Chang Caine

Colour me permanently interested in your activities - big D. I promise to dust off your posts if need be from time to time.

I love your snowchains on the MULE - I take it you have a blade and its as much fun as I'm imagining busting drifts with your Tonka toy?

No snow blade, but I am thinking about getting one.

Big Boys Toys Syndicate parallel thinking in action!

Don't forget the front end winch with grappling hook option and to mount the .30 Cal Browning on the back - Rat Patrol style. Maybe the submersible package allowing you to verify fish populations...?

I thought that was a Ma Deuce.

Updated Weekly

With our overnight low of -32F (a record for this date) I thought I might wait a day or two to take the readings. Then the temperature soared to -8F and there was no doubt that waiting was not an option.

Check out the big drop in bottom D.O.

Only 7.6" of ice? Did you lose ice? What's your thoughts on the lower DO readings due to snow cover on the ice?

The ice scale is on the left side, 14.5 inches.

Dwight do you see a groundwater effect and if so what aspect of the data is it effecting now ?

The ground water effect is seen in the water temperature on the bottom. You would expect that the most dense water at 39F degrees would be on the bottom. The ground water temperature remains at a relatively steady 41-42F degrees year around. As this warmer water flows through the pond it fights a losing battle with the colder pond water. At the bottom this warmer water isn't diluted as easily with colder pond water and therefore a layer of warm water remains at the bottom. There also may be some heating at the bottom from the hydraulic friction as the ground water circulates up and out of the pond sand and gravel bottom.

The bottom DO is affected by this warmer water as well. As we have noted warmer water holds less DO and ground water will have less DO then the pond water with it's oxygen producing plant life.

I think that there are other things going on with the "flow" such as stratification prevention, filtering, transferring of decaying material into the ground water table.

Thanks - a good analysis.

Updated Weekly
The heavy snow cover may already be affecting the D.O. The snow doesn't appear to have had much effect on the ice build which continues unabated.

You're right - the DO's sure are dropping. On the positive side, they are still VERY good.

Those DO lines need to level out and stop the drastic plunge. At least the temps have reached winter equilibrium. Could the ground water be effecting the DOs ?

Good point, Ewest. Years back, we had assumed that ground water would not have DO, and thus have been surprised over the years that the gravel/sand pits dug into the water table essentially never winterkill up here. So, your point is valid. We honestly don't understand what is happening with that groundwater percolation.

Updated Weekly
Ice is still building even with the snow cover. The ice consists of 17.5 inches of clear ice with an inch of cloudy ice on top.

Top and mid-range D.O. have turned corners and it appears the bottom D.O. is beginning to level out or at least isn't in free fall any longer.

My Sarge and I are both off for the MLK Holiday on Monday. We are heading to Bremer Pond to harass the fish. Since Dwight has been shoveling, it is one of the few places around here you can get on the ice without a snomobile or ATV. Bad news for the fish!

Starting to level near 9 ppm on the bottom looks great.

Interesting that the bottom temp is 41 F. Must be a groundwater effect. Good to see the DO stabilizing.

Ewest, we've sort of "struggled" with the bottom water temps ever since we started some winter monitoring several years ago, including Dwight's great work. Even in hill ponds, we're seeing 40-41 rather than 39. Ground water influence? Maybe some type of solar heating/radiation effect along the sides and bottoms? I assume that physics has not changed and 39 is still most dense. Another one of those "surprises" that we find when we translate from accepted knowledge to actually taking a look.

Speculation:

Geothermal heat release continually raises the temperature of bottom water, creating more >39 degree water than can quickly rise away in the absence of any none-density circulating forces under the ice. The density difference, and hence gravity-based mixing/moving force generated, between 39 and 41 degree water cannot be very large.

I assume Dwight's constant ground temperature is above 41 degrees. IIRC it's 52 degrees here in Central Ohio.

When I checked my well water temp coming from 66' below grade, it was 54*.

Theo -- we're about 46-48 ground water here, so I'll bet Dwight is similar to us.

I read somewhere that the annual average outdoor temperature of you area will be the same temperature as the ground water temperature. Ours is within two degrees at 46 degrees

Updated Weekly

The ice pack continues to thicken. Temperatures are pretty much stable. The bottom temp was actually 40.48 which rounds down to 40. The previous weeks it has been 40.50 plus which rounds up to 41. Hows that for minutia that matters?

The bottom D.O. continues down hill and if last winter is comparable to this winter the down trend will continue for several more weeks. The bottom D.O. reading is taken with the sensor probe sitting on the bottom. If the probe is raised 12 inches from the bottom the D.O. is at least a point higher. More Minutia that matters?

We just did some checking on a 7-acre and 3-acre pond here. We have far less DO than Dwight, but I'm not scared yet. Sure.... Everyone better hope for spring in a few weeks!

3-acre pond
Depth (ft)- D.O.- Temp C
4- 5.98- 2.2
8- 5.78- 2.5
11- 0.16- 5.0

7-acre pond
Depth (ft)- D.O.- Temp C
5- 8.43- 3.9-
10- 5.07- 4.3-
15- 1.42- 4.5-

Guess which one has the aerator (wind driven) going, and which has the broken aerator?

Dave, are those hill ponds?

My pond is staying a constant 5" of ice for now, but with the temps expected to be in the 40's for the next two days, and the the chance of 1" of rain, I don't think the ice will be safe for very long. I'll drag the thermometer out there tomorrow and see if I can get some water temps.

Dwight -- yes indeed, good man! You are absolutely right. These are some of the hill ponds that we manage. Our gravel/sand pits never have any DO problems, just like your pond.

Esshup -- we rained all day at 34 F, and the forecast tomorrow is up to an inch of rain at 35 F. Strange weather with 12 inches of darn snow on the ground. The rain has really started to drop the snow depths, so maybe we'll clear some ice on our ponds. They are forecasting some colder weather next week, with highs 18-20 and lows near 0. So we won't lose ice, but if we can even get the snow off the ice, that will help.

Interesting that the top and mid DO's are going up but the bottom is still falling. Wonder what effect the circulator is having.

Surprising the ice pack continues to thicken with all that snow on the top and moderate temps were are having. At midnight we are getting a steady medium rain. I wonder what that will do to the snow pack on the pond?

I had about 14" of snow on the pond, and the bottom 4" was slush. Drilling a hole, the top 1/2" of ice was cloudy, with the bottom 4"-5" of ice clear. A week later, the snow on the pond is gone, no more slush, but the whole ice column (still 5" or so) is cloudy. All the snow has been gone off of the pond for about 10 days, but there is still 4" of snow on the ground. I expect that to disappear by Sunday.

The holes that I drilled in the pond have re-frozen at a rate of 1/2" per day, but after they get to about 2" thick, that's where they stay.

Be carefull, that cloudy ice is not as strong as clear ice, snow and ice mixed together.

I don't think the circulator has much direct effect on the D.O. or the temperature. It provides and open area for light to get in and bad gases to escape. So in that sense it does contribute to the overall well being on the pond inhabitants.



I was also suprised that the ice was thicker again this week. I did observe that the snow pack has lessened considerably from the warm weather and the rain will really bring it down.



I concur on cloudy ice being structurely challenged compared to clear ice.

If you are running the circulator all the time I guarantee you it is effecting the DOs.

Updated Weekly

The ice is still building. D.O. has pretty much stabilized everywhere except the bottom 12-18 inches where it is still dropping.

All is well on Bremer Pond!!

If the bottom D.O. is 7.9, do you think the fish are riding higher in the water to take advantage of the higher D.O.'s? Or, is the bottom D.O. reading still so high that it doesn't make any difference?

They are looking for warm water except the pike who are looking for lunch. DO's are not a problem yet.

The bottom DO chart line is like the stock market chart. The rate of fall is slowing but if it doesn't stop soon there won't be enough left to fight over.

I don't think they probably know the difference. That is still a lot of D.O.


The bottom D.O. will be dropping for awhile yet, unless of course something changes.

The stock market analogy is a good one!

The fish have it a lot better than stock investors. All they have to do is invest a little energy to move up a foot or two to higher D.O.

We are dependent on other forces to increase our investments. The giant NP in our world is also very hard to run and hide from.

Dwight - "The giant NP in our world is also very hard to run and hide from."

Plus it can run at full speed in the cold water where most warmwater fish can't.

And, their food budget is limited to the fish on hand. When a fish deficit occurs they get thinner.

Winter doldrums? Ice build is slowing, temperatures and D.O. are stable.

Updated Weekly

Nothing like a little stability at good levels.

Dwight -- what was the lowest level for bottom DO last winter?

7.5

Your fish are mucho happy at that level!

Last year I was surprised, this year I kind of expect it though the snow cover was a bit of a worry.

Now I have to start thinking about trapping a Topeka Shiner for Bill Cody!

The D.O. is dropping because of the snow cover and a couple inches of cloudy ice on top that doesn’t let much sunlight through. The bottom D.O. is now at the worst case level from last winter. Ice thickness is within 2 inches of last winter's maximum.

It looks like this winter may be more difficult for the pond inhabitants than last year because of the extended period of snow cover.

Not much to worry about so far, anyway.

Updated Weekly

What properties of oxygen and/or water makes the D.O. almost twice as high at the surface than the bottom?

Cold water holds more dissolved oxygen that the warmer bottom water.

Less light penetrates the deep water thus depriving oxygen producing organisms of the light they need for photosynthesis.

Decaying matter on the bottom may be consuming oxygen as it is processed.

Fish prefer the warmer bottom water so they are using a lot of oxygen near the bottom.

Updated Weekly

Gained another inch of ice this week so we are currently 1 inch behind last years maximum. The 10 day forecast has overnight temperatures in the single digits and teens and daytime temps in the mid 20s maximum.

Water temperatures have been straight lining for 4 weeks now.

D.O. remains good.

Everyone here at Bremer Pond is ready for spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice - those DO's are improving. Any clear ice ?

The ice pack is 22 inches thick of clear ice with three inches of white ice on top. On top of all that is 6-16 inches of hard snow. The open area the circulator provides is currently the only place where sun light can penetrate. That open area is probably about 2-3 percent of the pond surface area.

Even though very little direct sunlight can enter the pond I believe that the clear water allows significant refracted light to penetrate. That must be enough light or the D.O. would be considerably lower.

Yes but the groundwater could also be DO charged. I bet that circulator is doing a lot more than one might think.

I still plan to check the ground water D.O. this spring so that will remain a question.

During the open water season when the winds are calm the circulator will set up a ripple on the whole pond. I suppose that it could be slowly moving the water around under the ice during the winter.

Dang! That is a bunch of ice! I'd love to see that, although on my small pond, that would mean in many areas there'd be no water below it! Hope you get warm weather soon!

I could ship you the ice in a dry-ice pack. The only problem is I don't have a coring drill to get the ice out of there in one 25 inch pillar.

Updated Weekly

If you look down the hole you can see clearly all the way down to the bottom.

Well, maybe we can work on another solution for next year!

Updated Weekly

I predict that this will be the last week that the ice pack builds. We have been having some warmer days and the nights are starting to move into the mid-twenties for lows. We are also expecting some rain over the weekend. As soon as water starts moving through the Rock river,the groundwater table will rise and float the ice pack up from the pond banks. That event is a game changer.

There were 4 flying toilets near the open water in the circulator area. These four scouts were appropriately warned!!

I saw a Blue Jay Wednesday.

The bottom D.O. spiking upward also means that changes are in progress.

Spring is near.

That bottom DO has really moved up. Any ideas why - should be at about its yearly low.

I think it has something to do with increased movement of the ground water through the pond. That movement mixes the higher D.O. water that lies 12-18 inches off the bottom with the bottom water. When I take the bottom D.O. readings they are truly taken on the bottom. 12-18 inches above the bottom the D.O. is quite a bit higher.

My guess is a lot of your very good water quality is due to ground water and your circulator. I would not discount either.

Agreed

Darlene gets to breathe a high % of O2 year round. Hope her metabolism doesn't spike and cause her to lose weight.

Did I really say that about a woman? jk ladies.

Darlene are all happy and they are all female, though they are definitely not women!

Burger, If you keep this up you will never grab the pebble from the masters hand girl-wise.

I received this photo of our pond from the County GIS guy. It is from 2009 when it was pretty dry and the pond was low.

We have discussed ground water movement and the influence of the Rock River on the pond in this thread and others. This photo shows the close physical relationship between the pond and the river on the east side (right side of photo).

The river flow and ground water flow are both in a southerly direction (bottom of photo is south).

If you look really closely at the northeast bay you can see me fishing off the the barge.

It looks like you have the barge out in the river just below the island.

What are the odds that Dwight would be out fishing when the photo was shot?

What are the Odds that Dwight made it back before this happened!

Updated Weekly

The 23 inches of ice is still clear and solid though there is slush and water on the top. D.O has changed radically. If you recall, last week I mentioned a coming game changer. The ice is now floating free from the pond banks and the pond has burped.

I used the Mule for transportation today. The gap between the bank and the shore is a challenge but the chains on the Mule allow it to claw its way back up onto the ice or back up on the bank going the other direction. After the first time the fear was gone and I crossed it a few more times just for the fun of it.

The Mule is going to summer tires next week as there won't be anymore driving on the ice this year for me. The warming trend is supposed to continue and the ice will float farther and farther from the banks.

Dwight, has the DO gone for the better and how much change? I'm just curious because I would think the influx of runoff water would bring in lots of DO especially after the ice "burps". BTW, good term for that. I've tried to explain that phenomenon to people and I never heard of calling it "burping" but that's a perfect description. Is that an official pond terminology that would show up in a glossary? My pond just burped about two days ago.

Man look at those green DO lines go up , up and away.

Man, that bottom D.O. did zoom up in a hurry, didn't it?? Makes sense, but so cool that you are monitoring so closely, and documented that fast change.

Duh, I didn't realize Dwight had a link to a sight with a nice graph. Wow that did skyrocket. Do you guys think this is because of the influx of runoff? On a related subject. What are the conditions that exist to cause natural turnover? Does it happen when the surface water hits 39 degrees and then swithes places with all the cooler water below it? What is the rest of the water column doing when this happens?

Udated Weekly

I had to estimate that average ice thickness. The ice is just too treacherous to get on top of and bore a hole.

Water is clear down to at least 10 feet, oxygen saturated, and the temperature is nearing equilibrium top to bottom.

Spring turnover!

So turnover happened while there is still ice covering the pond?

Awwww, 'come on Dwight. I'll bet you could get one more reading on the ice thickness if you put on your snow shoes!

Well, it's tricky, isn't it bz? However, I was guessing that there was enough ice off to allow the circulation to equalize the water temps from top to bottom.

Dave - You are correct in your guessessment about the amount of circulation causing the equalization. With the influx of 4,000,000 plus gallons of ground water and the circulator running 24/7 there has been a lot of mixing occurring.

Sorry for another question, hope that's OK on this thread. But why more ground water now than any other time? Is it because of snow melt soaking into the ground? I suppose the ground water level rises somewhat this time of year? Does that level the DO reading because of mixing? I would think ground water moving in would have very low DO itself. My pond is fed partially by ground water too. That's why I' so curious.

Let's let Dwight take first crack at your question, bz. However, have you ever posted a picture of your pond here on the forum? If so, I don't remember, and apologize in advance. If you haven't done so, would you consider posting? I'm always very interested in northern ponds, and what keeps them away from winterkill! :-)

bz, Here goes:

A small amount of the additional water comes from snow melt and rain runoff directly, but most of it comes indirectly from the Rock River that runs adjacent to the pond. The river has no direct connection to the pond. As the river rises from runoff it creates hydrostatic pressure on the ground water table. This pressure forces the ground water to follow the path of least resistance for relief. Since the pond is close by and it is a gateway into the groundwater table the pressure is relieved most easily by the water rising in the pond. You may want to refer to this thread for more information.

There appears to be a process that causes groundwater that moves through sand and gravel under pressure to have increased DO levels. This is only conjecture on my part, but I have been monitoring DO concentrations for a long time and every time the water table rises significantly there is a corresponding increase in DO.

(Note to Dave) Someone should do a research paper on the high DO levels that seem to be typical in ponds that are dug down into the ground water table (pit type ponds).

Note to Dwight -- yes, someone does need to do a little digging into the DO levels. The traditional viewpoint is that ground water has no DO, but what about shallow ground water? Near the top of the water table?? Another thought might be that the pit type ponds also tend to be less fertile, and less likely to have the drop in DO over the winter?

Some info on the subject. Your hydrologic cycle is short and through gravel and sand. Low organic content and high DO moving river water. Thus clear water with high Dos and low N. entering your pond.

What Factors Affect Ground-Water Flow and Chemistry?
Rates and pathways of ground-water flow, and the likelihood that ground water will be contaminated by nitrate, depend on a combination of factors. These factors include soil and aquifer composition, land use, and topography.
The grain size of soil and aquifer sediment affects the rates and pathways of ground-water flow. Coarse-grained sediment forms permeable aquifers through which water readily flows. Fine-grained sediment forms low-permeability aquifers (and confining units) that retard ground-water flow.
The amount of organic material in soil and aquifer sediment affects water chemistry. The amount of organic material generally is minimal in coarse-grained sediment and tends to be more abundant in fine-grained sediment. Organic material reacts with dissolved oxygen, removing it from the water. In areas where organic material is abundant, dissolved oxygen can become rapidly depleted.
Soil composition, topography, and land use commonly reflect the factors that affect ground-water flow and chemistry. Coarse-grained and well-drained soil that contains little organic material often indicates the presence of underlying coarse-grained aquifer sediment that also drains well and contains little organic material. Large upland agricultural fields are commonly located where these sediments are present. Fine-grained and poorly drained soil that contains abundant organic material often indicates the presence of underlying fine-grained aquifer sediment that also drains poorly and contains abundant organic material. Lowland forests and marshes and small fields interspersed in upland forests are commonly located in these areas unless extensive measures are used to drain the land.
The availability of dissolved oxygen and organic material affects the potential for nitrate contamination of ground water. Nitrogen is present in several forms in ground water, and it is transformed differently among these forms depending on the availability of dissolved oxygen and organic material. Where dissolved oxygen is abundant, bacteria chemically oxidize (nitrify) ammonia to nitrate. Nitrate is of concern because it is the one form of nitrogen that readily dissolves in, and flows with, ground water. Where dissolved oxygen is limited, nitrate will not form, and bacteria chemically reduce (denitrify) nitrate that is already present to nitrogen gas (the most common product), or to ammonia if sufficient organic material is present.

Ground-water age and chemistry
The age of the water ranged from 0 to 26 years and increased with depth and along pathways of ground-water flow (fig. 3). Thus, the chemistry of the oldest ground water reflects the effects of land use as early as 1968.
Dissolved-oxygen concentration ranged from 8.0 to less than 1.0 mg / L and decreased with depth and along ground-water flow paths. Nitrate concentration ranged from 7.7 to 27 mg / L as N in water beneath the agricultural field. The lowest nitrate concentration (0.13 mg / L) was in water in the fine-grained sediment.




Typically, underground
water has high CO2 concentrations,
and low pH and oxygen concentrations.
Carbon dioxide is
high in underground water because
of bacterial processes in the
soils and various underground,
particulate mineral formations
through which water moves. As
ground- or rainwaters flow over
and percolate through soil and underground
rock formations containing
calcitic limestone (CaCO3)
or dolomitic limestone
[CaMg(CO3)2], the acidity produced
by CO2 will dissolve limestone
and form calcium and magnesium
bicarbonate salt


Here is a link to a chapter on GW and basic geology.

http://www.dpla2.water.ca.gov/publications/groundwater/bulletin118/Bulletin118-Chapter6.pdf

Updated Weekly.

The water has warmed slightly in the mid and upper ranges. The water clarity is 60 inches so it has stained up considerably from last week.

Again this week, I estimated the ice thickness. Ice now covers less than half of the pond's surface area. I predict that next week I will be switching over to the open water season chart.

When do we get to see a comparison of last years readings to this years readings?

YES that would be fantastic !!!!

Soon.

I switched over to the open water version of the weekly chart so that is pretty boring (not much data).

Below that I have included data and charts comparing the past two winters that is pretty interesting (at least to me).

Updated Weekly

This is the look of spring under the surface.

Updated Weekly

Updated Weekly

59 degree surface temp? I better get the boat project done this week and get out fishing some where!!!

Later day when I was fishing the surface temp was 60.2 - 60.6 F degrees. Get that boat going!!!!

Weekly Update

We are in a spring holding pattern. Water temperatures have dropped in the past week, D.O. has dropped and clarity is variable in a 10 inch range. We need some consistently warm temperatures to get things moving in the summer direction!

Weekly Update

Dave Willis, I think you asked me for pics of my pond? Either PM me with an email address or I can post some under a new thread.

Dwight, I lost track of this thread until now. Thanks for answering my questions on ground water, your answers make sense.

I'm still trying to understand Ewest's DO explanation.

bz -- PM sent.

Dwight what happened to that early plankton bloom?

ewest - At night, I see them in the lights, but the water temperature is holding them back.

In spite of cold, rainy and ultra-windy weather the pond is plugging along just fine. Even though the water temperatures have dropped since last week, the water is clearing and plant life is flourishing.

Oh, and the fish, are biding their time………..

Weekly Update

Weekly Update

While we were gone for a week of vacation (the blink of an eye in pond terms) the water temp rocketed upward 11 degrees, plant life expanded and a plankton bloom occurred. Yesterday the wind blew 40 plus all day to stir it all together.

Weekly Update

I am a little early on the update this week because of high winds in the forecast the next couple days.

Updated Weekly

Looks like summer on Bremer Pond!

It has been a long time since we have had summer in these parts!

Updated Weekly

Temp says time for LMB like Darlene to spawn.

Activity is increasing at a rapid rate. A LMB hit my Secchi disk during the clarity check!



Updated Weekly

LMB to Man (Dwight) -- keep out of our pond with your tools. We live here and will defend our space.

Next time put a hook on it!

Time to patent your new lure design, Dwight??

That one LMB is probably the only LMB in the civilized world that would attack a Secchi Disk. Lure potential, minimal.

Updated Weekly

Maybe a little green algae bloom (transparency down a tad bit) and a slight uptick in the DO levels??

Yep and those DO lines are going to cross (top highest , Mid next and bottom lowest - but still high) as a result.

The clarity and temperatures (other than the bottom temp) are heading upward. DO is dropping in correlation with the water temperatures rising.

After the readings we taken, we had 2.1 inches of rain in a thunderstorm. That will churn things up in the clarity department for a few days. Even weekly observations are just a snapshot of a single moment in a dynamic pond environment.

Weekly Update

Weekly Update

Weekly Update

Weekly update

I recall that your summer clarity peak was earlier last year.

The clarity really shot up. Is that common ? I would have thought that with summer plankton it would not do that.

Each summer the clarity will go up and then back down as the blooms occur. Last summer clarity hit 120 inches around this time.

Updated Weekly

Clarity spiking upward....

Updated Weekly

Clarity spiking downward....

Updated Weekly

Hmmm. Did your green algae start their late summer/early fall spike just at the same time that the heat really hit?

That appears to be the case. This clarity change is huge for week's time.

I fished for a while while I was out there and the LMB seem to like the changes. Last week I couldn't buy a decent fish. Yesterday I caught eight LMB; two 20 inch and six in the 14-15 inch range. Perhaps they were Blinded by the Light last week.

Two 20's is a great day in the north country!! [even if Manfred (or Bruce!) is doing the fishing]

Dwight I thought the lake did the exact same thing last year. O2 profile sure indicates plankton bloom on top (O2 rising) less O2 deep due to shading.

You are right about that. In fact, it happened several times last summer.

I read on another post that bass can live to 12-15 in prime
conditions. Let see, one pound growth per year x 12 years = big bass. I wonder if Cecil has his worry beads yet?

How will we know she's getting close to the 10# mark if she isn't caught and weighed. Or is Dwight waiting until he's sure she's over 10#?

Darlene are all in the 8.5-9.5 range depending on the time of the year. I try not to catch them, but thoroughly enjoy seeing that cavernous mouth come to the surface as I yank the jig away.

The clarity continues to plummet, water temperatures are rising, and D.O. remains good.

I haven't recorded a mid-depth temperature as high as 83 degrees prior to this one.

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There were a lot of changes this week.

Mid and bottom temperatures have dropped while the surface temperature climbed a couple degrees. Clarity is climbing again. The mid range D.O. is above 100% saturation while the top and Bottom D.O. remain about as expected. (I re-calibrated and triple checked all my readings; they were duplicated each time.)

Question of the week: Why would the mid range water be super-saturated with dissolved oxygen?

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What depth does the groundwater come in and what is the temp ? Is the circulator running ? When the bloom starts to wane (clear water) the O2 at the surface will decline absent some other event (rain/wind). The mid range water because its cooler can hold more O2. The deep water may be showing the results of the bloom sinking to depth (dead plankton) using up some of the O2.

Since the pond is dug into the ground water table, the ground water enters the pond at all levels top to bottom. The ground water temperature @ 10 feet is in the range 46-52 year around. The ground water temperature at 6 inches is in the mid 70s, currently.

The circulator is in summer dry dock up in the warehouse. It is only used in the winter.

What is the GW O2 content ?

Since that question comes up frequently I decided to put in a test well near the pond. I am placing the well on the groundwater in-flow side of the pond. Sometime I may put one on the out-flow side and see what changes occur as the water moves through the pond.

Should be interesting, at least to you and me.

And me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I figured that would get your attention!

On Bremer Pond, Part III?

IMO this is one of the very best learning threads !!!!

I agree Ewest, but only because of Dwight's diligence. He is an impressive specimen. Good think we can talk about him like this behind his back so he doesn't get the big head.

Dwight - a big head - no way. You must be thinking about Molly the LMB.

I do by my caps at Big Head Caps .

We had a week of cool weather and it really shows in this weeks readings.

The surface and mid-range temperatures have dropped significantly. The temperature drop caused several varieties of submerged plant life to die off, though the American Pond weed is still doing fine. The plant die off caused the water to lose 23 inches of clarity with 42 inches being the lowest clarity reading do far this year. Dissolved oxygen remains good and that big bump up in the mid-range disappeared in one week.

The pond is telling us that fall is just around the corner. Darlene will soon be fattening up for winter and the best lunker fishing of the year will occur during the next two months.

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"The plant die off caused the water to lose 23 inches of clarity.. "

Any change in water color ? Cool temps usually mean clearer water .

The water may be slightly more brownish-green. I looked at the water under my microscope and there is suspended plant material and plenty of critters too.

"Usually" isn't always usual here. The unusual may be caused by the constant battle between air temperature and ground water temperature trying to control the pond water temperature. (Keeping in mind that the cooler groundwater constantly flows through the pond) These opposing forces influence the pond water temperature; a few cloudy and/or cool days give the groundwater a big advantage in cooling (this week’s rapid temperature drop). Most ponds don't have this particular dynamic or at least it is not as pronounced.

Contemplating all the ways that rapid temperature swings could affect pond organisms could keep a pondhead awake at night!

Very true ! Good cause to remind us all that every pond is unique.

Any indication that the nutrients previously used by the weeds are now going to plankton production ?

I believe so (the critters I mentioned).

The pond is experiencing the lowest clarity and D.O. levels in monitoring history.

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Two thoughts. First Mother Nature is always more variable than we think. Dwight and I like to find the patterns in stuff, but all the factors involved just result in exceptions, at least occasionally.

Second, lowest DO ever at Dwight's pond is still darn good shape. No concern whatsoever at 6 ppm. Your pond appears to have the capacity to handle the oxygen demand from those decaying plants. Let's see what next week brings.

How does it compare to last year ? Was the plant density more this year ?

OK, my statement was a little dramatic. It isn't that I am worried, but rather that it is something new and different.


I estimate that the plant density this year was up 300-400 percent. This being the visible ones.

I sensed no drama. Just your usual statement of fact.

Of course, if you were feeding/overfeeding your fish, then this might be a darn tight squeeze?????

If you get too worried then start up the circulator.

Ewest, you're prompted me a little. I got two northern pond "volunteers" after that last Pond Boss magazine article. However, neither was ideal in that both were already feeding. So, Dwight and I put our heads together and I think we are coming up with a modified plan. We're thinking we should compare the dissolved oxygen over the winter in those two ponds that do have feeding to Dwight's pond (no feeding). Dwight's Pond, with its long history of DO measures, can be our "control" or comparison pond. I think we could learn a lot. I haven't checked with our two "volunteers" yet on this plan, but based on preliminary contacts, I think they might be interested. One of them is a forum regular, so that will be fun.

The more info and data to compare the better. I do think Dwight's is one of a kind and we just aren't smart enough to know all the why's and how's even though the same concepts and principals apply.

It appears that the pond has "absorbed" the dead plant matter and is returning to a more normal state.

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Just moving the nutrients around. Question is what will use them next.

Not much change this week. The convergence and crossover are several weeks away, but obviously close at hand.
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Ground water test well parts



Well Point



Test assembly

Hmm. What's the chance that the small drop in bottom DO was from increased groundwater flow? Did that lead to the thoughts on ground water testing?

Yes, I wish it would have been installed prior to this flood event. Then I could have said with authority that that was the cause. Always a day late and a dollar short!

Or maybe you could instead look it as if you are learning new information for all of us!!

WRT new knowledge we are all always behind the curve. That is why it is new info. It’s the desire to learn that puts us ahead.

The 62 degree water is a little cold on the feet, but the Barge is only about 20 feet from dry land. The water remains about 40 inches above "normal". These conditions are infinitesimally better than doing D.O. observations when it is 20 below zero, the wind is blowing 20 miles per hour and a 20" hole needs to bored to get the probe to wet water.

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That fact that you are out there in any weather condition says a lot.

I was working the Corona Reef today. Since the water looked to be clearing I took the Secchi disk along. The clarity reading was 41 inches last Saturday. It was 84 inches today!!!!!

Normal weekly readings tomorrow.

The pond started clearing on Thursday. Yesterday clarity was 84 inches and today 114 inches!

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Isn't that amazing?

Nature intervenes and we contemplate.......

What in your opinion is going on with those changes the last 2 weeks? DO down , clarity out the roof , and temps down a little.

I think the flood has had a huge affect. It cut the water clarity to yearly lows by introducing large amounts of suspended material from along the shoreline. The rising water groundwater lifted bottom sediment and forced it into suspension as well. The stained water also caused heat to be retained at higher then normal levels.

Now that the pond has dropped to about 33 inches on the depth tube (down from a high of 56 inches) most of the suspended matter has returned to the bottom or filtered out of the pond through ground water flow-through.

It is possible that the zoo-plankton may have been adversely affected by all the foreign suspended material causing further clearing. Dying plant and zoo-plankton have caused the D.O. to drop.

Since the water temperatures are higher than normal for this time of the year, I expect that the D.O will rise prior to ice-up and the water will stain up some because of zoo-plankton activity and plant life recovering because of the extreme amount of sun penetration.

After the ice forms I expect the pond will become very clear just like every winter with typical (for here) winter D.O levels.

What do you think?

I think your explanation based on actual observations is about as good as possible. From looking only at the spread sheet over the duration of the thread I could tell that an anomaly was occurring (even though I knew the river and lake were up from the text). I have not seen the clarity jump to that extent at the same time the temps were static and DOs down a little. A very unusual combination absent some large out of the normal event. Just for clarity (of terms and understanding) do you think with the river up you were seeing groundwater influence (water in the underground supply) or river water due to hydrostatic pressure. The 2 could be vastly different in parameters.

How long before you expect the winter plankton to start ?

I am not sure I understand the first question.

As the river rises, there is increased hydrostatic pressure down on to the ground water table. The pond is isolated from the river and is the only nearby opening into the ground water table. The increased hydrostatic pressure from the high river water searches for relief and finds it by pushing the ground water up into the pond.

Predicting Plankton activity is a guessing game for me. There are just too many variations in their make-up and in their behavior based on widely ranging pond conditions. The flood added more variables.

A few weeks before or after Halloween should cover it!

The increased hydrostatic pressure from the high river water searches for relief and finds it by under pressure surging into the GW strata mixing with it and changing its make-up with the newly mixed water pushing the ground water up into the pond.

It will be interesting to see if the normal GW is changed by the river water mixing in under pressure during high water periods.

The increased hydrostatic pressure from the high river water searches for relief and finds it by under pressure surging into the GW strata pushing the ground water up into the pond.

I haven't seen evidence of GW changes during high water periods. It is possible that the GW strata (being primarily sand) filters the water and keeps it from modifying the GW to any great extent. It is also possible that the GW flowing through the pond blocks changes coming from run off waters in the river. More likely, it is a combination of these two factors.

Now that there is a test well located in the path of incoming GW, monitoring will answer some of our questions. It will probably create new questions, as well.

I would be shocked if no new questions arise.

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D.O. and temperature are returning to their fall convergence track. Clarity dropped 30 inches since last Saturday so some plankton clan must be getting active.

DOs up to even as clarity drops. Plankton must be producing some O2.

Could it be your fall diatom pulse? Maybe a brownish hue?

I believe you are correct as the water does have that hue.

All of ours have a brown hue also and no new water .

Looking excellent! Updated Weekly

Ground water test well: Temperature: 54.9 DO: .38

Yes looking good. Typical GW with a .38 DO

Those are nice readings. Perhaps after this rain front passes and we get a good day, I should run down a dozen 10" chubs and we should quick strike rig for Darlene or one of her sisters.

This is only a test of tomorrows actual update. I am avoiding spreadsheet stress tomorrow by testing the fall-winter-spring 2010-2011 layout today.

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Temps and DOs almost balanced and static.

There was a large temperature drop and a large clarity gain this week. The water is clear down to the bottom. My Secchi disk only has 11 feet of rope on it so......

GW: 55.04F DO .42

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The stick e-mailed me that the latest graph didn't match the commentary. After a re-load it showed up fine.

Is anyone else having this problem?

Minimal changes this week.

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GW: 55.09F DO .41

It was cold and windy out there today. We missed the 10 inches of snow, thankfully. When the temperature is 34 degrees and the wind is blowing 30 mph you wear the warm stuff doing pond observations!

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The clearer the water the more DO ?

Normally that would be a "no" answer. But there are more factors to consider:

Water temperatures are cooling so less O2 is being consumed by the less active fish.

Reduced nutrient load produced by inactive fish.

Cold water holds more O2.

Clear water increases available sunlight for photosynthesis.

If you look at the data, the clarity has dropped slightly from its high so there may be some plankton activity re-occurring.

The circulator is running 24/7.

Very good grasshopper. It is truly a 3-D web and not a chain.

It would be neat to quantify the effects of the circulator. I bet a big effect.

Nearing the walkable water stage.....

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Na - Na- Na - you have 7 more degrees to go. Even then it will be to thin to walk on for a while.

Yeah, but with the temps that they are seeing up there now, I think those 7 degrees will come pretty quick!

Agreed on the 7 degrees fading fast. The highest daytime temp for the next 7 days is today at 35 degrees. Single digit night temps are forecast starting Wednesday. That will give the circulator something to fight against!

5F degrees over night. The circulator lost the battle with the ice in a final valiant effort.

Looks like some open water still there .

Yes, in the Barge area where it will remain open all winter. The rest of the pond is complete ice covered.

No Ice Monday, 4.5 inches on Saturday. The ice is nice and clear. I bored a dozen holes and the thickness and quality are good at every one.
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Bottom temp is about as low as it will go.

Like that D.O. Dwight. Got the ice fishing house, auger. and heaters all taken care of. Tying jigs, getting bait, and organizing the rest of the gear this week. There is always a high degree of anticipation for the first ice fishing on Bremer Pond. Did you get you pond markers set yet?

No pond markers. More ice is needed to hold them in place.

Interesting how the bottom DO got down near 6 a couple of times this past fall. That's plenty of oxygen, and obviously there is even more above that. However, even in your groundwater-fed, moderately fertile pit pond, there obviously is some decomposition happening. Aquatic plants dying? Phytoplankton? Tree leaves?

I believe that most of the decomp is from aquatic plants dying off. Very few leaves would enter the pond as there are no trees other than shoreline willows nearby. I am sure that Phytoplankton contribute as well at a lesser degree than the aquatic plants. Aquatic plants are now present in 60 percent of the pond and this year was a bumper crop year for them.

I would be interested in the #s on plants vs. plankton in general. My assumption was that as a % of decomposable matter plankton far outweighed pond plants in volume. Have not seen Dwight's pond in person so can't say on his.

I am not sure how to answer your question. You tell me how to measure the % of decomposable matter plankton vs plant matter and I will do my best to provide that information.

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I will bet that it's 8 inches of solid, very strong ice, too??

Yes, the good stuff. The temperature for the next few nights should bring it to 12 inches in short order.

I still need to switch wheels on the Mule for the ones with chains. In will admit to spinning a few cat___es out there yesterday.

Blizzard warning for tomorrow so this is a day early.
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Brrrrrrr !!!! Too cold for me. Winter has set in for sure.

BTW I fixed the thread.

It was a balmy 6F degrees while taking readings this morning. The water is clear as a premium Vodka all the way down to 14 feet(bottom).

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Yes, balmy indeed!! Both the temperature and dissoved oxygen profiles (top, middle, and bottom) are separating nicely and just as they should. All is still well in the world of physics, I guess.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, the Followers of the Thread!
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Ice thick enough to drive on yet ?

Yes, 12 inches.

Readings taken late yesterday because of another impending winter storm. The storm is fizzling but it did dump quite a bit of rain. The rain and temperatures in the mid-30s disposed of most on the snow on the pond. It is good to have sunlight going through the ice in January!

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Did you get another layer of snow over the ice once it got cold again??

It snowed a few inches. A lot of it has blown off the ice leaving the ice bare in many areas. Our winds are hanging around 30mph this morning so who knows where the snow will eventually end up.

Ice thickness increasing, D.O. decreasing, temperatures are remaining stable. This is exactly what is to be expected.

I managed to trudge over to the Barge and observed that the water depth tube is at 18 inches. This is the same level as before ice started forming. What does it mean? The "normal average" depth has been 12" inches for the last few years so the significant rainfall of last spring and summer has raised the ground water table 6 inches. That is a big gain in ground water level for a single season. Another 12" rise in the "normal average" would bring the ground water table back to the "historical normal average" of 24 inches.

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Hey I just read that old animals thread from 04 hillarious! worthy of print! And that bit about jhap sharpening his shovel with pancreatic fluid was golden...assuming of course it was a joke.

Driving down to the pond in a warm truck, parking on the ice at the deep hole in heated comfort taking pond readings beats all the other winter alternatives. (Taking pond readings alternatives that is. )

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How does that 20" of ice compare to this time last year?

DO still near 8 at the bottom. Your fish are happy.

01-16-2010: 18.5"

Looks like back to normal - very cold !!!!

Bottom D.O. is dropping rapidly with all the snow cover and the rain induced opaque inch of ice on the top.

If I lived on the bottom of the pond I might consider moving up a few inches in a week or two.

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Not at those DO's and temps . 6+ is more than enough for a fish in low metabolism while 2 degrees could be a real freeze.

I don't know about the other fish but trout probably wouldn't have a problem with D.O. or temps. at any level in your pond.

I only hope my D.O. is that good.

Yes, that bottom DO line is declining pretty steeply. However, you still have plenty of oxygen. Could we perhaps be ready for a break in this darn weather?? Two tough years in a row!

I think we are enduring payback for the 5 years of decent winters prior to these two.

Well you know the old saying - payback is _____________ !

How much ice building weather do you think you have left?

You never know in these parts. It could be one more cold front or it could be another 6 weeks of cold fronts.

With all the snow cover, I doubt that we will surpass 24 inches this winter.

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OK, bottom DO, that's enough. Ok to level out any time now....

Snow removal time. I wonder what bubble tubing aeration would do.

That bottom D.O. reading is about as low as ever recorded. Readings are taken at the deepest hole in the pond. 98% of the pond isn't that deep. D.O is much higher on the bottom in the rest of the pond. I am not worried yet. I may put the circulator on full time though.

Absolutely you have no worries at all. Sure didn't mean to infer that! Your DO is light years from any type of problem. Great water quality for the North Country!

That is for sure. My comment was a question about what difference (change in BDOs) would either snow removal or placing bubble tubing aeration in the deep hole make. Certainly not needed.

Bottom D.O. is still dropping though not at quite the rate of the last few weeks.

With the additional snow from the last storm it is getting difficult to drive on the pond. Luckily there are areas between the drifts where you get a run and blast through the next drift. As northern boys know this is actually great fun until you have to get out the shovel for a mis-judged blast through!



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If it stays around 6 you will be good.

Do you get weak spots in the ice if it stays snow covered. I would think blasting through a drift and into a hole would be a real eye opener.

Other than by his circulator to keep the dock and barge in open water, it seems to me that Bremer Pond had nasty good ice. Dwight restricts pickup driving until he has fourteen inches of ice. I have never seen a sign of a weak spot.

D.O. is up a little in the mid and top ranges. Bottom D.O.is still dropping but at a slowing pace.

I wonder if turning the circulator on full-time has something to do with these changes?

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Your DOs are still ok.

This is an email I sent to a certain individual who likes ice fishing Bremer Pond.

“Pond Update:

When you said there were dead fish floating up through the holes at that one pond, I decided to check out Bremer pond.

The Mule can get down to and around on the pond no problem. A person does get wet and dirty from flying slush, water and mud.

The north side of the building access would be good for a truck if it gets colder.

The ice has that grey look, but I think that is more from standing water/wet slush.

The river is more open each day but so far the pond hasn’t risen.

The pond is at 16 inches on the depth tube; the same as last Friday.

The barge area is more open even though the circulator hasn’t been running because of the warm temperatures.

There is open water up in the North Bay out maybe 4 feet at the widest point.

There are absolutely no floating fish in the barge open area or any open areas for that matter.

It is critical mass as to any more ice fishing driving a truck out there and totally weather and river rising dependent.”

That was yesterday..

Overnight it got cold enough to freeze everything solid and this morning I sent this e-mail to a certain individual who likes ice fishing Bremer Pond.

“You could probably get away with it today since it was colder over-night and things look more solid this morning.”

Later in the day today I took the weekly pond readings and found 21 inches of good solid clear ice.

In summary then, it is day to day on ice fishing potentiality this time of the year.

Updated Weeky

Bremer Pond looks healthy and comfortable for your fishes!

Things are moving up in the depths.

Our short lived stretch of warm weather melted all the snow on the pond and let the sun shine in. Now it is snow covered again but that influx of sunlight appears to have regenerated something down there that makes 02.

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Wow - nice jump at all 3 levels.

How long before ice out ?

Nice example showing how even under ice, photosynthesis is still what introduces the most oxygen.

Dave, the latest O2 readings here showed a spike on an average of 2.0 mg/l top to bottom just due to less snow cover and thinner ice coupled with a few full sun days. Most of this winter has been overcast. All the ponds increased roughly the same amount.

That is one of the top ten "it depends" questions!

March 28.

Does anyone know were in Illinois I can get shiners at that is close to Rock Island, IL?? I know that anderson minnow farm sells them via air freight from out of state, but can't find any place close to were I live.

Thanks for that update, Scott!

Jason -- start a new thread with your question. Few people will see it burieddown this far.

Dave, the data is compiled, you'll get a season in review via e-mail once you say the study is done for the year.

I'm sure the story is essentially done, but we'll run it a bit longer? Besides, I can't use the SD weather to judge IN, especially this year!

The story is never done.

I agree, it's never done. We were supposed to get 1"-2" of rain last night and ended up with 1/2". Still froze up solid and there is still snow on the ground.

We have been back in the deep freeze and snow again completely covers the pond. The forecast is warmer but it is supposed to snow Sun-Mon-Tue-Wed. Ice thickness increased for the 3rd week in a row.

Bottom D.O. continued to climb a bit this week while the mid and upper levels have gone back down to or even lower than where they were 2 weeks ago.

This winter sure seems longer than most even the the pond has only been ice covered for 15 weeks. Last year the total was 17 weeks. On this date last year the ice was 26.5 inches thick compared to 23 inches this year. Last year the ice was gone 4 weeks from this date so there is room for optimism.




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We've noted a decrease in clarity the last three outings. This may be due to the lack of light penetration. Can't see the bottom like earlier. Something to check next week and see what you think. On it goes

More than likely the reduction in clarity is a result of the week of sunlight penetration increasing photosynthesis levels.

Dwight, I agree the decreased clarity is likely due to an algae bloom from the week of increased light penetration...If the decreased clarity is in fact due to a bloom, should there be a concern of a near certain die-off of the algae and consumption of oxygen now that the pond is snow covered and has reduced sunlight again?

In previous winters it hasn't been a problem though that is no gaurantee.

I think that these winter blooms are pretty weak since the water is still very clear. The clarity is still at least 96 inches.

It looks to me like we are turning the corner towards spring. The D.O. has fluttered for a few weeks and has again headed upward. The snow is melting and the forecast shows warm days ahead.

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Yes, the forecast finally looks like the change is here. Whew. Thanks goodness. I mean, your data set is really great, and really fun and all, but sheesh! :-)

Pretty cool yo see the bottom DO up so much despite the ice staying at 20 inches.

Big big jump in that bottom DO. ? river/GW effect ?

The POND knows that spring starts next week with temps in the 50s and 60s! :-)

Longer days (more sunlight) can also cause things to wake-up. But not just the bottom DO.

Dramatic D.O. changes observed!

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Coming in from the river, eh?

And without much change in the temps. A bloom ? Have you ever determined the DO of the river/ground water ?

I am not sure why the D.O. changes so rapidly during the spring thaw each year. I just know that is does and must have something to do with all the water flowing in and out of the pond at that time.

The times that I have checked the D.O. in the river and in the well have been during stable periods where the river is flowing but at "normal" levels. The river has been near saturation levels and the well is always in the 2.5+- range @ 50+- degrees.

Since the ice is no longer safe to tread upon I have switched from ice thickness to water clarity for the duration of the open water season. I took today's readings from the Barge and yes, got wet when the water came up over my boots getting to the Barge.

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Was that the maiden voyage for the Barge in 2011? Did you drive over to the ice pack left on the pond?

The Barge remained at her moorings. The water depth on the southeast quadrant is 13 feet.

With the surface water temp at 35 that must have been cold. The DOs are leveling off.

Finally getting some warmer water temperatures.

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Seasonal retirement of the circulator:


Amphibious Mule:


Heading across the pond for D.O. readings:



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Clarity has dropped considerably and we lost some water temperature with the cold fronts haunting our area. D.O. is saturated top to bottom so the fish are happy but inactive.

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We have been in an extended cold, rainy loop for several weeks. It is getting old going out there in 38-42 degree temperatures with 30 mph winds to take pond readings. Please bring on Spring or if we are skipping Spring this year, lets have some summer!

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It is still a struggle to put together more than 2 days of 60 degree air temps so water warming progress is slow.

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Water temps are up 8-9 degrees in one week. I am now confident in saying that spring is here!

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Holding pattern! May 14th and the air temperature out there this morning was 42 degrees.

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Dwight, we had a cold front move thru here yesterday afternoon. 1:00 p.m. temp was 81°F, 4:30 p.m. it was 58°F and raining. It's not supposed to get out of the 50's and 60's for high temps all this coming week. That'll mess up the fish spawning for sure!

The Bluegills here are in shallow water waiting for warmer temperatures. In the meantime they are very easy to catch on a two inch jig. A few evenings ago I cast and retrieved 20 times and caught 14 8-9 inch BG. On the twentieth cast a large LMB followed and the BG quit biting.

Its time for the first major BG spawn of the year here. BG beds all over the place. Full moon next tues 17th.

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warming sloowwwwllyy.

Yes, a very slow spring warm-up and the forecast doesn't contain much heat for the next week.

Temperatures are not changing much and neither is the clarity. D.O. is saturated. In other words no news to report.....

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No news is good news?

Temps up top to bottom. Clarity up by 20 inches. D.O. saturated. Spring-Summer!

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I did the pond readings and fished for a while. Crappies are on the X's and I caught another one of those giant NP. I had her by the gill cover just about ready to remove the spinner bait. She made a big lunge and got away from me taking my black titanium spinner bait in the process. Those NP are getting so big that they are hard for one man fishing alone to handle. I am not complaining, though. Then it started raining and I returned to Business.
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Time to get (make) one of those musky cradles??

The stick and I had a discussion about that yesterday!

A whole lot of water movement this week with ground water level rising and 5 or so inches of rain since last report.

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I see the D.O. readings are pretty close to the same. Do you think that is because of all the rain? Is the D.O. saturation point of water the same at 70 degrees as it is at 40 degrees?

No - colder water holds more O2.

ewest - The D.O. is actually above saturation levels by the graph I got from Dr Dave. I assume that is possible given all the vertical water movement in an out of the pond along with the rain, winds and zoo plankton activity.

I have seen it before but super-saturation is rare here.

Yes it can be like you describe. My answer was is the saturation level static - no it changes with temp. and cold water has a higher saturation level. It can be over 100% saturation level at which point it starts looking to give off the excess O2.

Yes, I concurred with your D.O. water temperature correlation. I was just commenting further on the latest observation numbers.

How long do you normaly see the DOs above 100% saturation?

It doesn't happen very often or last long. I would have to go back through years of data to answer your question.

The good part is that I have accumulated years of data.

Dwight is a machine -- a data collecting machine.

See if you know why the bottom DO dropped so much. You may want to look at the Flash Flood for a helpful hint.

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Dwight do you have some deep water plants growing.

How did you get your flashing avatar ( sig. line) pics. ?

There are plants that grow in the deeper water though the population is small and they don't grow very tall. I call them scrub weeds and haven't ever taken the time to ID one of them.

The photos are individual frames in an animated GIF file.

Summer is here in full force. The surface temperature is up 9 degrees in a week with clarity down 26 inches in the same week. D.O. is good.

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Funny your pond (5.1 acres) and Big Spirit Lake (5,684 acres) are the same temp. What is happening with the summer weeds? Has the ultra high water made them less dense than usual?

Plant growth that has reached the surface is in decline. A few more weeks will really the tale due to the water temperatures finally getting to the normal range for this time of the year.

The pond appears well positioned to get through the heat wave that is supposed to be gripping the upper Midwest the next several days. It is a hot wet heat......

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How are the mosquitoes this year? Aren't they on steroids in Minnesota?

Airbus is trying to copy their design.

We don't have any because our barn swallows eat several million each day.

Our dragonfly crop has been massive this year, and we have hardly seen a mosquito despite all the rain. Link?

I have seen the same thing down here Dr. Willis....very interesting...:)

Oh no, another side project.... Ha!!

You will have to flush out the dragonfly project since there are few of them here. Could it be that since the swallows eat all the skeeters the dragonfly can't compete?

Dwight: you, sir, are a deep thinker.

More a puzzled mind then a deep thinker.

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All is well on Bremer Pond.

Yes, the pond is taking care of its own regardless of the extended hot weather period.

The zo have been active this week!

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Temps stabilized , DO down a little and visa down. Sounds like summer.

Could it be the summer doldrums?

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Steady is good.

Temperatures down, clarity up, D.O. up except on the bottom. All Good!

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