I coaxed up some of the brookies I planted last fall with a hookless kastmater spoon today to see how they were doing. I was a little concerned with all the snow we have had and my lack of ability to remove it.

I just love the markings on these fish don't you? To me it's either a pumpkinseed or brook trout that are the two most beautiful species in North American.

I agree Cecil but would have to put the California Golden (Onchorhychus aquabonita) right in there with the Brookies.

Yeah that would be cool. Do you know if they are available anywhere in the country even in California? I do know California passed a law back in the 30's that prohibited the eggs or fish to be transported out of the state. I wonder if that is still the case.

Here's another pic I may have posted here a few years ago. This fish first came up into the hole and stock his head almost completely out of the water and clacking his jaws back and forth as if to say "Hey where the food!" My dog I had at the time freaked and nearly knocked down the shanty trying to get out. I then went into the house (the dog was relieved to get out of there) and threw some pellets into the hole. The fish came back up and started eating the pellets so I snapped this picture.

Brook trout are always beautiful, I especially like the silver on their fins.

I found this pic of a male with big shoulders from the pond a few years ago. He was dark as it was late in the spawn. I love the males that get this conformation in the fall.

I hadn't heard of that law. I searched hard for a source but quit searching for them in 2003. You know somewhere somebody has a pond with some fish they transported from a spring. I thought about catching some wild fish & trying to transport them. Even had a couple of guys tell me where to find them in streams relatively close to roads.

What are the trout at the Cabelas pond that they call golden trout?

West Va. golden trout.
IIRC a WV fish farmer noticed a yellow trout in amoungst his rainbows. He removed it & bred it untill he had a reproducing golden trout. It is a natural occuring color variation of rainbows as is blue rainbows.

Funny story about the dog Cecil!

If you found some I can't even imagine the red tape to transport them. It wouldn't be possible in my state. My state strictly forbids any trout or trout eggs from west of the continental divide due to potential disease issues. We weren't even allowed to get eggs from Trout Lodge in Washington state, which are as clean as they get until the state decided to do it. I guess now it's O.K.

Are golden rainbows or as some people call them palomino trout, actually albino rainbow trout? They sure look it... Anyone know?

According to the PA.fish commission the golden rainbow trout originated from the 1954 west va. golden rainbow trout, but the palomino trout was a cross of golden rainbow trout and regular rainbow trout. It is not as gold in color.

Here's a Palomino:




From my understanding the red gill cover and stripe comes out when the WVGT is crossed back with a normal rainbow.

I have always understood it to be as Adirondack Pond states, but I have always had a PA fishing license too so go figure. One thing is for certain, those Palominos are a hoot to chase around the creeks if you find them. I also learned a great deal about catching stream trout by watching them react to my offerings as I fished. You can see them follow and see how they look over the lure/bait each cast, and adjust to what they do. I was on a creek once at a large hole with two decent Paliminos in it, myself and another guy on the other bank were fishing the hole as they stationed mainly on his side of the creek. I used a chartruese rooster tail and got them to follow several times but no hits. The other guy chided that I wouldn't get them to bite because they were pressured too much. I dipped my spinner in some vanilla extract I carry in my trout vest and I caught one on the next cast. The other guy was amused, and then shocked as I dipped my spinner again and caught the other one on the next cast. He asked what I did and I told him I spit on my lure, that's the trick, then I moved to the next hole upstream leaving him to fish alone. The girls didn't think so much of me then, but I walked the creeks around here and worked them fish like a hoover. I still smoke 50-75 or so hatchery trout every year, I just like busting brush and wading fast water, it makes me feel like a kid again.

Joe, your getting careless now, you gave us your trout secret now the whole world will know.
Vanilla extract ? I'll have to try that on these adirondack brookies.
Or maybe your just pulling our leg!

Just clever misdirection. The secret is actually tabasco sauce.

Theo, the way all the streams are locked up in ice and snow the trout could use a little hot sauce.

Here's a Brookie I caught last summer in the stream that runs thru my property. I believe that they are Heritage trout , because I can find no record of this small stream ever being stocked. Apparently they adapted well to the acid rain problem we had, but now that has been reduced and some lakes and ponds are starting to improve.

The Palomino trout originated in PA. It was simply a cross btw a WV golden & a normal rainbow. It was much more pale in color on the sides of the fish.
Here's what the PA Fish & Boat Comm. has to say about it:

Wow! That is a pretty brookie! I need to start taking more photos of the fish I catch...

That is so COOL Adirondack...ponds are one thing, having a stream running thru one's property with NATIVE brookies is quite another. Awesome.

Can you post some pics of said stream so I can daydream?

TJ

TJ, thank you for your kind words, when I found this property 7 years ago the stream and waterfall sealed the deal.( I got approval from Mrs. boss). the realty co. didn't even know there was a waterfall on the property, and I didn't tell them.
The majority of the water for my pond comes from the stream, I have gravity flow pipes from above the waterfall 300 ft. to the pond.

this is the stream above the waterfall in the spring.

this is below the waterfall

Here's the waterfall in october.

Amazing! - I am always floored by pictures of the Northeast - the natural rock formations and exposed granite, rolling hills of mixed conifer and deciduous forests, covered bridges and clear running streams and the long running history of each village/town. When I got married back in Oct 2001 I talked my wife [after several months of fighting her idea of the Carribean] into honeymooning in New England just to drive around and explore for two weeks. We missed the foliage peak - but everything was still incredible. We left our hearts in upstate NY, VT and ME....although I am a Nebraska boy born and raised, my mind often drifts to unreal natural scenes just like this - and imagine outside your very door! It's a slice of heaven to be sure.

FYI - I wrote my first ever serious research paper my junior year in HS about Acid Rain in the Northeast in 1988. It made such an impact on me I finally fulfilled a dream and opened Eco Mow lawn maintenance last year to try and make an impact on air pollution from gas mowers, trimmers, blowers, etc. Guess what I'm trying to say is it's great to hear the impact of Acid Precipitation might be improving...if that Brookie is any indication, collective efforts might be making a difference. Never would have imagined that back in the 80's. Too cool.

Okay - off soap box.

Thanks Adirondack! Please keep us posted on how that population is faring in the future.

Tj, this winter has been tough and alot of people here wouldn't share your enthusiasm for the northeast. My oldest daughter lives near sacramento and she loves the weather, but you practically have to be a millionaire to own any acreage.(JHAP & DIED will probably disagree.) I guess every state has it's good & bad and it's what you make of it. I would love to take 6 months and tour the country, but alteast I hope to drive out to the Pond Boss convention.

The acid rain problem has improved probably because of the emission restrictions on the coal fired plants in the midwest. We have such abundant coal reserves we need to solve the pollution problems so we can use the energy. I have an automatic coal stove for the house which burns anthracite rice coal, and it burns very clean.

Tj do you have many trout streams in Nebraska, and are you planning on attending the PB convention?

P.S. how's your pond doin.

That is beautiful AP!! You're a smart/lucky man!

I'm happy to hear the progess made healing the environment - not only from a fisherman/naturalist standpoint but also as a parent. We're making some signficant strides in the Midwest learning how to convert the cellulose instead of the corn to a sort of natural gas [my crude analysis] - not ethanol, and it's exciting stuff. It's a renewable, domestic, cleaner burning fuel alternative that's got a lot of us hopeful. As my kids age [5-7 yrs] I look at this world I'm leaving them and feel the urge to continue to work hard to be a responsible steward of the planet. One of the primary reasons I started my Eco company. One blade at a time!!!

Nebraska has a blue ribbon piece of water way West - the Snake River. Also the Niobrara holds some trout and some Western streams are stocked - but most of the good water is privately owned and guarded closely - which is understandable considering its such a rare commodity.

I travel every Summer to the Boulder and Yellowstone river drainage in Montana [Big Timber and Livingston ares] for my trout fix. Catching native Cutts on dries is the only healthy addiction I have!

My ponds are hopefully doing well - just dug last Spring. Under the generous guidance of Dr. Bruce I have a 3.5 acre pond with YP, BG, and HSB stocked. This spring I am adding RES, SMB and perhaps some Female LMB. My three other ponds are really tabla rosa. They are small .2, .25 and .35 acres - I was thinking of raising SMB in one, BG/RES hybrids in another and getting them feed trained to help local Pondmeisters as our local supply is not always reliable and to my knowledge the fish aren't pellet trained. Taking the top 5% and stocking back into my main pond -and keeping them for reproduction - selling the rest. We shall see - it all sounds simple enough - but who knows how much effort the plans will demand!?

I've entertained having my last pond spot dedicated to Rainbows as a gift to my father who introduced me to fishing. However, the resources demanded by a trout pond in NE are significant [according to the esteemed Mr Baird 45 GPM well water during warm months]and I'm not sure I am prepared to dedicate at this time.

I'm literally chomping at the bit to get my feeders, aeration systems and waterfalls in place this Summer. Never has a Winter passed so slowly since I had my own water to manage. I imagine many of you can sympathize with that feeling of your "Rookie Winter".

I am definitely going to be at the conference, it's just a stone's throw from Lincoln, actually. How is your pond - what do you have going on?

Ric, I don't know about smart, but I sure am a lucky bugger.

Tj, Fishin in Montana sounds really great, someday I got to see Yellowstone.
You really have your work cut out with all those ponds, but it sure is satisfying when things come togeather, and it doesn't hurt to have expert advice and a dentist to boot.
Even though I enjoy snowmobiling I'm almost ready for spring to come also, my pond is under alot of snow & ice except for the small area open from my aerator.
I might add more Tiger trout, and have been thinking about HSB, but I'm also gonna build a cage and try to grow some larger pumpkinseeds, then bring them in next fall to a RAS in my basement.
Lots of plans, but you have to have something to shoot for!
Hope to see you at the convention.

I heartily recommend hitting Yellowstone National Park - and heading North following the Yellowstone River drainage through Paradise Valley. Unbelievable scenery and good fishing. Livingston is a cool town - let me know if you ever go and I will shoot you some guide friends contact info who will float you for a case of beer. Can't beat that with a stick.

I'm a big fan of the northeast too. I lived in Massachusetts for a few years when my dad was in the military. If I would have stuck with getting my RN degree (I was one semester short) I would have relocated in northern Maine (still single) in a heartbeat. Nursing just didn't click for me even though academically it wasn't difficult. I could have had a job anywhere I wanted I guess.

Man that stream is awesome!

Maybe it's a good thing you didn't get your RN Cecil, we wouldn't want you treating your patients like dead fish.

Well ya know I was doing taxidermy at the same time. An LPN asked me if I liked what I did ( she wasn't very impressed with taxidermy). I asked her how she liked emptying bedpans. That ended that.

Maybe I already posted that here? Sorry if I did.

Cecil

Small Scale Aquaculture just arrived from Amazon - thank you for the suggestion - this looks indispensible.

I will keep in touch - maybe you can clarify if I get stuck.

TJ

Just to let you know there is a typo on page 70 that could mess you up. I talked to the author the other day and he cleared it up for me. You want to cut your cup rings from 3 inch PVC not 4 inch PVC. (But you still cut 4 diameter inch rings) Also the axle is 3 inch PVC not 4 inch PVC.

Also on the top of page 71 right hand column, it should say "Use the specification provided in Appendix C Diagram 4, " not Appendix C Diagram 4.

Any idea if you will go with option 1 or 2 to power the biodisk filter? I'm going with the all air option 2 vs. a water pump as if you go with the water pump you have to add some form of aeration. With option Option 2 the air powered filter rotation you can kill two birds with one stone and don't have to run two motors.

I must have missed the thread on that book. Is it about Recirculating Aquaculture Systems?

Argh, sorry Adirondack - I've hijacked this thread twice now. I need a lesson in posting manners. I am reply crazy when I see something that interests me.

Cecil, I will PM you.

Not sure if there was a thread but yes it's a homemade RAS where you can grow up to 100 lbs. of fish. Here's a link to the book. Shows you how to build the bio disk filter and all the plumbing. You can use about any size tank but they use a small 12 foot swimming pool with a liner in the book.

It would be a great way to overwinter talapia for pond algae maintenance, bait minnows, or any species, and you could easily produce your own talapia in the unit or an aquarium.

I think it would be cool to do presentation it at the next conference and even bring the components, but haven't heard back from Lusk yet if he would be interested. I have the blessings of the author Stephen VanGorder. I think it would be too involved for just an article.

http://www.altaqua.com/

Me too sorry!

I'm glad you mentioned the book, I think I'll order it, gotta grow those 10 inch Pumpkinseeds.

Copy Kitter!

Gorgeous stream! Looks like many of the brook trout streams in PA I fish. That waterfall is gorgeous. Does your pond support trout year round? If it is being fed by a cold water stream like that, I would think there were be a great chance it would...

Hello CJ, Yes my pond has brook,rainbow & tiger trout, also pumpkinseeds and GSH. I have 40 gpm piped 300ft.in from the stream and the trout do fine. Unfortunately the water pipes freeze in late Nov. or early Dec.
Last winter was the first winter for the trout but with no water flowing in, and no aeration they all died, my screw-up.
This year I have a small aerator pumping in shallow water so we'll see how they did when april rolls around.
I see your from northern VA., I use to live on Green Mt. lake near Stanardsville about 28 years ago, It's real pretty near the Blue Ridge Mts.

Here's a Tiger from my pond.

That is a pretty tiger trout! I have caught a couple wild ones, but never any others. There is a small native brook trout stream that seems to have a few in it. What a pretty fish!

My dad's friend lives in Nelson Co, VA at about 2600 ft in elevation. He has a trout pond as well. It is surface spring fed and they do quite well year round. How do the PS interact with your trout? My dad's friend has been wanting to add some variety to his pond but is afraid other fish will out compete the trout...

My father and I own 50 acres in Pennsylvania, one day I would like to damn up the small spring that comes to the surface on it, but I do not think it would hold trout. We do stock trout every year in the main creek behind out hunting cabin. In mild summers a few of the brown trout will hold over, but that is maybe once every 3 years and only if the water flow holds up. Sounds like you have quite a beautiful piece of property though!

CJ, The trout grow very well and so do the PS's, each time I put trout in this past year they would eat the trout feed vigorously for a day or two, then not as much, they seem to prefer all the minnows, frogs, and insects.

The trout growth rates averaged 1 to 1 1/2 inches per month and I believe that the 2 floating Islands that are on the pond really help increase the natural food available.
In addition to putting in a small aerator on a soaker hose, I put in 1 pound of "Flush It" powdered bacteria which seems to have a very high bacteria count to dollar ratio.
Tiger trout are available in PA., and I would highly recommend them, they are very aggressive and easy to catch.

What area of PA. are your 50 acres?

no i dont. property rates are just plain stupid out here. fortunately DIED and DWIED bought land and house back in early 90's before prices exponentiated....(dont bother looking in dictionary, i just made that word up..) proposition 13 is our saving grace that keeps taxes at the same level at which you bought the property.

i really enjoyed this thread. AP, you have a great place. i have fond memories of eastern woods, small streams, and old rock outcroppings in the MD/Great Falls/Potomac River area.

here is another pic of the majestic CA golden trout, the prettiest fish on planet earth IMHO...



in the 80's, i used to backpack into the golden trout wilderness every summer. these incredible fish can only be caught at very high elevations (>8,000 feet) w/ barbless artificials (flys) by the regs. in the glacial melt streams and brooks they are typically 6 to 8-inches. 10 to 12-inch goldens are large for the species. occassionally they grow to larger sizes in the lakes, but are very difficult to catch.

Wow that is one beautiful fish. The best part is it would be a piece of cake to paint one with an airbrush.

How do I get some black market Cal. golden trout. If some hatchery could breed them and sell them legally they could clean up.
Put me on the list.

you probably couldnt keep them alive unless you could simulate DO saturated glacial melt water flowing along a granite free stone stream.....

they are hard to get to, somewhat difficult to catch once you get there, and extremely fragile,

BTW did i mention that fragile rare endangered species taste really good .....a meal to remember for a lifetime....of course all were caught and consumed within the legal regs

My stream is cold with plenty of D.O., but the acid water would probably kill them, PH 5.5 .

I've enjoyed this post all the way round and about -

YES its been a trying winter and still 2 months of who knows what in NY. An "old fashioned" winter no doubt.

There's no shoveling our snow this year - not 2 miles in - and 20 miles from home -



The "outlet" in the foreground is actually the water coming up over the bank (dug pond - no pipe-outlet) - next year we'll have a 6" outlet -we didn't figure the water would ever come up and over!

Love the "waterfall" picture - I've got several CNY streams that I monitor for native brookies - looks a lot like you stream! I'm ready for winter to be over!!

FH

Our property is in southern Bedford Co no more than a couple miles from the MD line. No native trout in the general area. You have to go about 20 miles north. There are several great native brook trout streams and some fine limestone brown trout streams there.

The place we buy our trout from doesn't hatch tiger trout or I would definitely consider some. The spring that surfaces on our 50 acres and runs down through the hollow doesn't have a big enough flow to keep the pond we'd like to form out of it cold enough to support trout. I am hoping in the next couple years to build a pond on the 50 acres though. I think I have a good site. I will probably post on here later this year for some ideas.

CJ, just a little info if you are interested, the closest trout farm near your property with tiger trout is Green spring trout farm
,Newville, PA. 717-776-3214.
I dont know anything about them, but you can see the list of fish farms if you look up the "Pennsylvania sports fish directory".

CJ,

How much flow do you think the spring produces year around? It may not take as much flow as you think. Additionally smaller is better with trout ponds as not only do trout not need a lot of room it's easier to cool a small pond. You could have a small pond and have it overflow into a large pond like I do.

Have you ever considered periodically increasing the PH upstream like they do in some New York trout ponds?

Cecil, I had thought of liming the pond, but I think the water turnover rate would dilute it too rapidly, and the trout seem to grow at a rapid rate, with no apparent problems with the ph.
The brook trout in the stream seem to thrive as I have caught many of them from 3inches up to 9 inches.
I have also started to put small dams in the stream by driving steel fence posts in and putting logs and branches in to raise stream levels.

Makes sense as brook trout are more adaptable to acidity as long as it doesn't get too low.

Here my well water is 7.2 and my ponds are about 8.5. Alkalinity is so high with such a good buffering effect that I don't see any diurnal variations due to photosynthesis.

Do you have a problem with ammonia when the ph is high.

No my fish densities aren't high enough -- yet. I do think that is where a lot of people get in trouble. They try and put too many fish in a small pond. It throws everything out of whack.

I'll have to give that hatchery a call, they aren't much further a drive than where we currently get our trout from.

The spring is mostly under ground. Only during the spring and heavy rain falls does it actually surface. A few years ago, we took a back hoe and dug out a small hole in the ground where the spring runs. Water seeps out almost year round in that spot keeping the water in the hole fairly fresh. We did that to give the deer a place to get water as the next closest water source is over a 1/3 of a mile away.

I would say maybe 30 gallons per hour? The flow is pretty light. In the spring it is much stronger. Never measured the actual temperature, DO or pH of the water that comes out though. I have drank it with no ill affect and the taste is spectacular!

I may try to take pictures of the area I would like to put a pond in this spring and post them on here and get ideas if its a good spot to work with...