Hey guys,
With your help my main pond stocked with FH, Crawfish, RE, & SMB (2.5ac) is doing well. The FH have been in 3 yrs, RE 2yrs, & SMB 1yr.
SMB spawned this spring & I am seeing 4" juveniles. SMB are 10" - 14" & fat.
RE are all sizes up to 9 & 10" & still spawning. I was under the impression they only spawned once a year.
I had been considering stocking YP to add more forage for SMB but if the RE are going to spawn all summer maybe I won't have to?
I was concerned now that the FH's are about gone due to lack of vegitation which is due to turtles the RE's wouldn't provide enough forage.
I need help making this decision.

IMO golden shiners would likely make a better forage fish for your SMB rather than YP or more FH.

Been awhile Ric. Good to hear from you.

Ric glad to have you join in again. I think you are on the right track. RES can spawn more than once and do often in our ponds . But their reproductive capacity in the studies is based on average egg # or avg hatch. That stays the same no matter how many spawns as it is a yearly #. They still reproduce only a fraction of what BG produce.

Probably a good idea to add some additional forage. GShiners and FH would be good and a mix would be better. YP could work but with little veg or stick piles they may not reproduce very well. It is the wrong time of year to add YP in the south. You might try a few adult YP in late fall for possible early spring spawn.

It is easy to put branches into the pond from shore to facilitate YP spawning in the Spring, as Cody has pointed out.

Ric, ditto. Glad you are back. You know, we're going to need a picture of those smallies.

I would add Yellow Perch in the fall, and I would add golden shiners, in conjunction with beefing up some cover for both.

Thanks for the welcome; I just kind of got away from all forums, been busy & working my way through a new helth adventure. I've been stopping in once in a while but it's gotten so big & changed alot. I haven't kept up & can't quite figure out how everything works here now. I have missed some of the fellowship.

I really have mixed feelings on this. My first inclination is to add a forage fish but hesitate on shiners. I like the idea of YP since they are also good on the plate. I have some brush in the pond & can add more for spawning & remember BC's advice on controlling YP spawn by removing some of brush after eggs are laid. I like having that bit of control.
I also took BC's advice & added Corkscrew eelgrass but the turtles have decimated it.
Maybe I do need to add the shiners too.

FH and YP will work if you don't want GShiners. You will need to keep an eye on the YP as they may tend to stunt over time with only SMB. Harvest them as needed and work with the brush on controlling spawning.

ewest,
I don't understand what you're saying on the spawn question. I was supprised to see RE on new beds this week. My water level has been dropping since early June, down now about 18" leaving alot of cover unusable. Could the changing water level have triggered another spawn with warmer water now in ideal spawning areas?
Your point about YP stunting is I guess a good reason to put in GShiners. What about Gambusia instead of GShiners?
I apreciate all the help & suggestions. As I said I'm having trouble making this decision.

Ric RES reproduction #s in the material and as talked about are yearly #s. Based on those #s it makes no difference if they spawn all at once or twice in parts. Either way you get the same # of eggs/offspring on average.

If you want YP then you should use them. YP are good to eat but I don't know about anyone eating GShiners. I think either YP or GShiners will do ok. You will have to manage the pond population either way , so go with what you want. I was just pointing out that there are reports here that say YP may stunt in ponds with just SMB as a predator. That could be cured if it becomes a problem by fishing , seining , trapping or adding more or different predators (like HSB or LMB or more SMB). You can adjust the YP spawn somewhat by adding brush or taking it out. Also you can remove YP egg ribbons from the brush pre hatch if needed. I like FH better than gams because they are bigger . Neither would be an adequate replacement for the YP or GShiners or RES as SMB forage. As the SMB get bigger they need bigger food than just FH or Gams. FH are the better forage for YP IMO as they don't stay right on the bank.

Based on your comments I would go with FH and YP.

Sunil,
My first attempt at posting a pic. I figure if DD can do it I can learn too!

Here's the only pic I have of a fish from my pond. My oldest son Nate did the sampling for me in late May. I haven't actually tried fishing yet. The SMB was 10.5". He caught about 6 in an hour of trying from 9.5" to 10.5". The only thing I have fished for in this pond is turtles & in 3 yrs I've taken out about a dozen snappers of which half were dinner plate size or larger.
I was planning on waiting till next yr before fishing it.

ric i cant add any technical advice to whats already been said, but my hijacking question is........when the heck did DD post a pic??

Ric!!!!

I just now noticed this thread. I've been a little on the busy side.

Fat SMB and multiple spawn RES?!? How cool is that?

I guess my first question is, if the SMB are currently fat, what do you think they are eating? If it's YOY RES, then you just have to monitor body conditions carefully to see if this continues to be adequate.

Do you do any pellet feeding? It would be just interesting to see if the SMB are inclined to that sort of thing. My guess is that if they're fat right now they won't go to pellets, but who knows. The main reason that I ask, is that if you see the SMB body condition start to wane a little bit you could temporarily feed them, or you could place heavy harvest pressure on male SMB each spring. They're pretty easy to identify by their incredibly dark spawning colors. This philosophy would be similar to what we do on bluegill by drastically reducing a single sex of a particular fish, generally targeting the sex with growth potential.

Sounds like a great problem to have!

Thanks Ric, that's what I needed to see.

Now we just have the small issue to address of your B.I.S.A. dues. As far as I can tell, you've had smallmouth for maybe two or three years now. We'll just say two years to help you out a little bit.

That will be $4 Million due right now. Of course, that's a one million per year fee plus a usury penality of 100%.

We do take checks.

Welcome back, Ric. You have a nice natural setting there. SMB foraging on redears, man you folks in cooler climes have all the fun. Could we get some closer pics of the bridge? It looks neat.

Remember YP, at least larger ones - adults) are primarily a predatory fish (meat eating opportunist) and to achieve decent numbers and decent sizes for harvest YP should have ample food to eat which if you're not using pellet trained YP then it means small fish and larger invertebrates which are also primary bass foods. This then creates competition and then "someone" gets shorted on food unless all densities are kept low or forage fish numbers high.

Sunil,
The SMB (100) were put in spring of 07 at 2 - 3". That's only a year & a couple of months. I'll have to check with the boss to see if we have any spare change.

Hey Bruce!
I'm sure they're eating yoy RE & know they're eating FH's. I'm just afraid the RE/FH combo won't be enough as they get larger. I'm seeing some that have to be 14" now! & have seen several cigar shaped 4" SMB 2 of which were floating I think green heron was responsible for.

Our green heron and I aren't on speaking terms.

Hey Bill!
I've been trying to ballance all of that in my head & can't quite reach a comfortable decision. I don't have the knowledge or the feel for it.
With SMB at the top of the food chain & a goal of keeping them fat & growing, what would you change in a 2.5ac pond avg. depth est. 15' - 18' with FH (declining rapidly), RE, & a few crawfish?

Hey BM! I'll have to hunt for a pic of the bridge, I have lots but need to find the disc they're on. New HD doesn't have all my old pics.

Bugermiester,
Here are the 2 best pic's I have of the bridge. I'll have to take some more soon. It's 86' long with a 6'x6' platform in the middle.

Good stuff, Ric. I want to make one 1/2 that long that elevates toward the middle also. I like the engineering design. I see water lily and pickeral. That is a good looking and natural looking setting. The pond was newly dug, or cleaned out?

DIED, I posted a pic a couple of years ago and left it up a couple of days. It was an experiment just to make sure I could do it. The problem is that I never take a camera anywhere with me. It's just not a part of my life.

Hey Ric,
Count me on the list of guys that miss your posts.
-
Also, put me on the "interested in the engineering" list for your footbridge. I'm with Burger; more pics and some text details, if ya please.

To put it simply...

That bridge is sweet!

Ok, I took the camera down to the pond today ..
Looking west.
The 6' x 6' platform looking east.
Looking east.

Looking south.

Looking north from the dam.
It's +or- 86' long made with 2x10's for walkway, 2x4 railing on top of a single 8" I-beam.

Thanks, Ric. Photos from every angle, with your pal in most of the shots. Love those chocolate labs. Is your pond from a creek bed? Sure looks peaceful.

That is a neat bridge, but crossing it would make me nervous that I was being chased by arrow-shooting Thuggee. Especially if I was accompanied by a whip-wielding Archaeologist.

I love how you can see the shallow area dirt underwater, then dropping off to the briney depths. What lurks in those green depths....

That is a nice bloom . Ponds and hounds are made for each other.

BM, The pond dam is set at the junction of 2 hollers with a small spring feeding from one & a small creek from the other. We took dirt from where we could around the edges for the dam.

With this much water running in, the pond leaks terribly to be about 20" low now.
I forgot to mention the bridge supports. Under the platform I used 4" sch 40 pvc filled with rebar & cement. The 4x4's were installed later to stop lateral movement of the I-Beam.

The I-Beam is anchored on both ends in concrete.

The Game Warden stopped by for a visit.
That's funny Theo It was fun before I put up the railing & braced it with the 4x4's!
Thanks for all the compliments. BTW the dog (Jazz) is going on 3yr old Braque Francais (French Pointer). She likes to point birds & I like to shoot-em.

Good detail on the bridge. Looks like you did it right. The 1st pic of the pooch sitting, looked a little like a choc., then the pic walking toward, kinda like a coon hound. Must be nice to have a pointer and something to point. I'm afraid that global warming has caused a loss of habitat in the deep south. It must be global warming, right? I planted some seed mix for habitat a while back. We'll see what happens.
Again, good bridge project.

Thanks BM. I buy alot of birds to keep her trained. Personally I don't think warming has anything to do with bird populations. But that's another thread ...

Bruce, some of the RE eat pellets although I've spoiled them & they won't eat them unless they've been soaked first. I've fed the FH's per BC's advise since they were put in & the RE just started comming around to see what all the excitement was about & started trying the GFC. Intrestingly some of the RE's won't even give the food a look, some look but won't eat, some hit it in a flash, & some come running when I approach & meet the food when it hits the water.
The SMB are'nt the least bit intrested.
I could I have a place above a large colvert I could block off & feed train some YP. Even if they do stunt as ewest says they may I mainly want them for forage anyway.
Found 4 more new RE beds today! I watched one court a female in his nest. Not sure if she deposited eggs or not. He was darker & smaller (7"?)than all the others on nests & started fanning the nest sometimes standing on his tail after she left.

I've put eighty redears in a pond this year that weren't feed trained. Just as you say, some have no interest in pellets, but there are a few that absolutely smash the pellets! It happens so fast that I had to watch it several hundred times to be sure. It happens at least fifty times at each feeding. RES are fun!!!!!