Ok guys here goes...1st post. I have been asked to take over the managment of an exsisting pond and would like some input from everyone. I have become a member of the site a few weeks ago, have read the posts every night, as well as Bobs first 2 books, and some back issues of the magazine. What I have learned is that the more I learn the less I know.

Here is what we are up against. Our main goal is to raise quality largemouth bass, but have an atrractive, healthly, fishable pond that one could catch a catfish and some bluegills for the kids. The lake was impounded 3 years ago, is approx 2.1 surface acres, with 90 acres of steep watershed, with a current unknown average ft depth, although based on elevation change the deepest part is very close to 20 ft. I will be workig on that data soon. There is alot of runoff and water is nearly always running over the spillway, which is the way all of the water currently exits the pond. Luckily there is a 6" pipe that runs under the dam with a valve in it that could be used to let water exit from the bottom, that is not being utilized today.

I purchase an AQ-2 test kit and here are the results.
pH 6.2
Alkalinity 15
Hardness 10
DO 9
Ammonia Nitrogen 0
Nitrite Nitrogen 0
Do these make sense?
Water temp was 14c at the surface near the shore where all water samples were taken. I will get out further in the lake and get deeper samples soon.
Clarity is somewhat muddy after rain due to the lack of grass in some key spots. Currently working on getting some vegetation going now.

Approximatly 400 bluegill, 100 Georgia's, 50 catfish, 200 6in largemouth bass and some minnows and tadpolls were stocked 6 months after the lake was full.

That fall the bass, bluegills and Georgias bit like crazy. The next year they still bit, but they were not growing as fast as was hoped. Still today they will bite but not as crazy although the bass are definitly skinny.

Our ideas have run the gamot but what is the best plan of attack? From my limited knowledge I can imagine getting the piping sorted out so that we can drain from the bottom of the pond, get the alkalinity in line, and try and figure out what forage to restock.

Where to start? What is the best way to get the alkalinity squared away? I will work on setting myself up to post pictures as that my help expain myself better.

Thanks in advance

Welcome to PB brotherhayes. The best way to improve alkalinity to at least 20ppm is to add ag lime.That will also help reduce pH swings. It sounds as if you don't have enough forage for the LMB. What are the "Georgia's " you noted ?

You might try the archives on state pond mgt books for good info.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=113216#Post113216

Thanks ewest. They called them Georgia Hybrids. They look like a big bluegil, but seem far more aggressive. How much lime would you think it will take to get over 20ppm alkalinity? Broadcast over the water, spread on shore, a little of both?

Bro H, welcome to PB. As you have noted, your system is broken and out of whack. To whup or attack a problem, you have to first define it and you've started well. Thanks for defining your goals. Keeping a log of your catches and water quality changes will be one of your best tools.

I'll defer to others on the specific amount of lime. We don't need it in my area. Just make sure it is the ag lime that Ewest recommends. Evenly distribute it.

I prefer to take a holistic approach and compare ponds to pastures. Think of it this way. How many cows(predators) could you run on a pasture with poor soils and limited grass(forage)? The bluegills forage you provided was about 20% of the recommended initial stocking for 2.1 acres.

I would take a multi phased approach or attack plan. While I was getting grass and/or barriers established to control inorganic runoff into the pond, I would start out controlling the amount of predators/bass that are grazing on the limited forage/bluegill. One of the biggest problems we see is tossing that little feller back in to let him grow and thus limiting the amount of bluegill forage that the entire predator population needs to survive and thrive. Eat them, relocate them to an area lake(if legal), use them for garden fertilizer or feed them to the coons. The fun part is fishing those out and eliminating them. The rest is involves time, work and $.

You can't do anything about the runoff area but you can somewhat control its effects with a siphon. Lots of posts here on siphons and they can keep your water level fairly constant.

While getting a natural grass barrier established to catch and control detrius inflow, you can use bales of hay or brushpiles to catch mud that is limiting visibility. There's not much way to establish the organic micro organisms that are the bottom of the food chain when inorganics are limiting the sunlight penetration needed for a healthy food chain.

If you have power available, look at aeration as a definitely beneficial tool.

Once you have the above factors under contol, and only at that time, I would add add more bluegills for forage. They won't spawn well without sunlight penetration and fry survival will be limited without a good ongoing plankton bloom. They will spawn in poor quality water but, for your purposes, it will be an unsuccesful recruitment. I would also add bluegills of 6 inch or greater size. With a bunch of hungry bass, anything less will be immediate groceries to them.

Hang in there. You'll be OK and this stuff is fun. Keep studying and asking questions. As Ewest says, look at the archives here.

I would add 1 ton per acre of ag lime (not hydrated lime). The Co-Op will usually bring it in a spreader truck and back up to the pond in a couple spots and broadcast it. Put some in where the water comes into the pond.

Thanks you guys. We have made a choice to handle the piping first so that we get the water draining off the bottom of the pond, then work on the lime to get the pond water balanced (no need in working on the pond water and then sending it over the spillway)and then work on the forage, all the while working on the run off.
I have plans for this weekend to get a list of items I need to complete our re-piping project. We are thinking that where the valve is at the end of the 6" pipe that comes out from under the dam, adding a short T section with the tee going up vertically. We can conect 6" pipe to that vertical part and run that back up the hill to to the spillway area to the level that we want the pond water to be. We have thought about putting in provisions in that pipe to allow for adjusting water levels at different times of year, as well as shore line managment projects. We would then add another valve directly down from the current valve so that we have the option to drain water at anytime directly from the pipe. As we have now. The current valve would just remain open all the time. Anyone ever stub there toes doing something like this?
Thanks again

Brotherhayes...

You may want to reconsider. When I talked to the pond drain people about my pond they told me I MIGHT be able to make do with a 6 inch pipe if I used a syphon system. My pond will be two acres with only 30 acres of watershed. You are going to be having a whole lot more drainage than me. I would keep the drain pipe you currently have and then look at adding one or more syphon drains. They drain water MUCH more quickly than a stand pipe and you don't need to worry about cutting through the core of your dam to get one installed.

thanks ezylman, I do need to look into ways to allow for heavy run off so that we do not have to reley on the spillway to handle the excess.

I have went ahead and figured out how to use photobucket in order to help explain my situation. Here are a couple pics of some fish I caught this past weekend. Comments please. [img]http:// i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn271/brotherhayes/pondfish024.jpg[/img]

hi brotherhayes,
to my young PM eyes, looks like a stunted lmb population w/ hybrid gills.

Yep, they badly need groceries. You have too many hogs feeding at the trough.

And like Ezylman says, you might want to reconsider the 6 inch, manually operated, drain as a solution to the huge watershed. I don't see it as being large enough to handle the inflow.

Judging by what I see with my 3 months experience on this sight, I would say start culling LMB and add some adult CNBG or some other forage base. How about tilapia? Could you get some in West Virginia so help add a boost this summer? I have also read here about adding Threadfin Shad to help with LMB weight.

I agree with DIED and those are probably Georgia Giants (a type of hybrid BG). They don't produce much forage for the LMB. I would guess that you don't have enough for the LMB to eat especially at the 12 in LMB size (3 in BG).

Nice pics !!

The fish look think--like they're hungry...maybe need to work on that forage base (you might even want to invest in a couple of feeders too). Three years now and I still use the feeder and have a large forage base. I cannot say enough, this site and the magazine has been my life-saver for the pond. A lot of reading from experts and other pond owners here but you'll learn their tricks, mistakes, and solutions and know that you are no alone in your quest to get the pond managed. Good luck. D