I have a question about bucket tests
How long should a bucket test hold water

I drilled 10 1/4" holes
Filled it 1/2 way with my soil
Compacted it
Then filled with water to the rim

Putting evaporation aside
should it hold indefinitely? If not
what is an expectable rate of leakage

No soil will be completely impermeable, but if the bucket is set outside so it sees rain, you shouldn't see the water continually dropping and weeping out the bottom. Ideally the water level in the bucket (with normal rainfall) will stay the same (rainfall is keeping up with evaporation).

This leak is driving me crazy

Some of my buckets hold and some don't
I'm going to do a few more bucket tests to see what happens

I know I have a layer of gravel under my pond
I believe it's 10' down on one side of the pond to as little as 2' down on the far side
I just dumped 4 25 ton loads of pond silt from the local stone yard
The problem is every time I do something I have to wait 6 months for a heavy rain fall to see if it's holding
At 1 " water loss a day over 3 months things get ugly fast




Pond is about 3/4 acre located in Sullivan county NY
I guess I'm going to get prices on 2' of clay delivered and spread

Before you go through that expense, can you give that Polymer Innovations material a chance? They have two products that apply to us: Seepage control, and Leak control.

http://www.polymerinnovations.com.au/

You seem to have the perfect scenario to try the seepage control stuff out. You would likely need at least 2 pails, which is about $350 a piece. A heck of a lot less than bringing in clay. If it works, no more needs to be done. If it doesn't, the material will still be integrated with the soil assisting a clay liner. From what I understand of the materials is it will work best on a fresh pond without muck and vegetation.

I am dying to know if this works or not. I didn't get any this year since my wife is threatening to quit her job and we have had enough rain and runoff to keep things topped off. I may have to pull the trigger this fall as we have not had much rain recently and are back to loosing water.

I tried a 2 pails of similar product (not to mention any names)
I didn't work, in their defense I was told I needed 6 pails


I've been looking at my little plastic shelled 100 gallon frog pond full to the rim all summer makes me want to install an epdm liner......
but I would much rather have a clay lined pond

Doing research online, I did find the ingredients to these polymer products a lot cheaper

I'm just frustrated trying different things then waiting for a 3" rain storm that never comes

I've rented huge equipment and had a great time building it
It's just a matter of not having enough clay content on the bottom of the pond

It seams to be seeping through the soil into a layer of gravel
I know this because I dug a 15' hole behind the dam into the gravel and water is flowing through it

Anyone have a guesstimate on having clay liner laid down

The big expense seems to be getting the good clay. I am in the same boat hauling it to site unless you have it on site can get costly. I think to spread and compact it is the cheap part...
Dave

With the price of diesel fuel, moving the material probably costs more than the material itself.

You need heavy equipment at site "A", trucks to move it, heavy equipment at site "B" to distribute the clay, then the sheepsfoot (or pan scraper) to pack it down.

You guys are so right there are to many variables to figure a price
I want to show you guys how nice my pond looks when it's full
Hope I can upload a photo correctly

Some more photos

Beautiful place

So it's looking like the pond silt I added is holding the water
I have about 3' of water in the pond now
Before I added the pond silt it leaked down to 2.5' then
I ran my hose for about a week and filled it up to the 3' level and it's holding

Also i found a great company to supply me with a crossed linked polymer
I added a tea spoon to my bucket test and it's holding like I have no holes in the bottom of the bucket
My other bucket with only soil leached down within 3 days

This weekend I'm going to till in 300 lbs of the stuff all around the edges and broadcast
A fair amount in the center

I will keep you guys posted on my progress

Wow... a teaspoon? Impressive.

can you share the company? I know there are a couple out there and we are always looking for that magical cure for our leaky ponds...

I will check with the salesman to see if he has any objections with me posting his information on line

So after adding the polymer I ran the well and filled it up with 6 more inches of water
I shut off the hose and for the last 12 days It dropped 1 3/4"
At full pool I will be very happy at those rates
Right now there's only 3' of water

So hopefully i get enough rain/snow before we get a deep freeze
It looks like we are getting wet weather in the next 10 days

So after adding polymer it slowly filling about 28" to go

So I have a question about the movement of ground water through gravel
The pictures are me chasing a leak behind the dam
I trenched behind the dam from the middle all the way up the far side
I'm into a layer of gravel following the movement of water not coming from the dam but running parallel to the dam from the hill
So I dug and refilled with clay all the way to 10' of the far end of the dam
Until I hit a rock shelf so under the shelf is a 18" layer of gravel
I installed a 12" corrugated with holes drilled filled all around the pipe with large rocks covered with fabric and layer of soil on top
Now I'm pumping the water back over the dam into the pond

So my question is can I be correct that the water is running down from the hill and not from the pond ??
The direction of the water was from up the hill until I hit the shelf
I know it's hard to tell

It is almost impossible to say where the water you are finding originates. If the water flowing is at a higher point than your current pond level, the pond can't be the source...if below the pond level, it's a total guess, but I'd lean toward it being the pond.

If the pond where mine, and I had good clay on site, I would chase the gravel under the rock shelf on the pool side of the dam, and into the dam as far as I could and back fill with good, compacted clay! Exposed gravel and broken rock shelves are almost guaranteed to leak unless you know for certain they are cut off while digging the dam core...Polymers sound great, but I have yet to hear of any that were anything more than very temporary fixes....

Rainman I sort of agree with you my next step will be to escavate behind a dam and hammer through the rock to get below the gravel and repack with Clay and some polymer mixed in
I believe you're correct this needs to be done above the waterline of the pond

orgeranyc, you do not always need to bust the rock and dig out the gravel under it. By "chasing" the gravel, (and assuming you have good clay on site) I meant to follow the gravel upstream till it is out of the pool area (above and below the dam) and cover that area with a minimum one foot thick blanket of clay tied into the soils above and below the rock/gravel shelf.

Rainman I believe we're in agreement

The problem I have is that I followed the gravel up the ravine behind the dam and hit the rock shelf
The layer of gravel is under the shelf
So I want to bust through and continue sealing it until i'm above the water level

The reason I installed the pipe was
1) I couldn't break through the rock so
2) I figured that I can monitor the water movement by installing the pipe

So now that I have a constant flow of water I will pull the pipe out and continue sealing the gravel way past the water level

I made a little diagram hope this makes sense to you

So I've been watching to water flowing into the pipe all winter through the layer of gravel
I hit the gravel while core trenching behind the dam
It runs about 10' down and 18" thick it runs up the ravine to the end of the dam

I want to finish core trenching before the snow melt , I'm worried that I'm going to have to much water pressure with a full pool
I'm also worried about the frost in the ground and not being able to core through it with the excavator
I guess I'll have to time it right.
I'm figuring I'll have to run the 3" thrash pump

I've been pumping the water back into the pond with a small sump pump, the pump runs a bit quicker then the water inflow
When I shut the pump off it fills pretty quickly

Anyone in my area want to give me a hand ??

I'll post some pictures as I'm working

I am not exactly sure what you are doing, but if closer I would be honored to come and help--learn-- It sound like quite a science project.

How Old is the pond?
How big?

Yes Mike sometimes I think I'm losing it lol
I dug the pond 3 years ago and it's been leaking ever since
It's about 3/4 acre I've done just about everything I can think of
From adding bentonite to adding polymer to re-coring the dam to compacting the bottom

Lastly I've been coring behind the dam into a layer of gravel where water is flowing
I've sealing it with clay until I hit a rock shelf ....that's when I installed the 12" pipe
Now I want to bust through the rock shelf ( or large Boulder not sure) and continue sealing it

Have any ideas ?
Want to fly to NY (JFK)
I hear your the guy to talk to

orgeranyc, I am not sure what water pressure you are concerned about, but 25' of water head only has 10.82psi. I am also not sure why you are core trenching BEHIND your dam. I think you will need to follow that gravel layer you found, through the dam and into the pond to be able to seal it. Considering the dollars spent so far, it may be wise to have give Mike Otto a vacation there.

Agreed