Pond Boss
Posted By: jlodestro Pond holding water...success notes - 05/11/09 01:08 AM
All,

A year ago+ I posted here because my pond was not holding water. It is now - and I wanted to share what I think worked.

First off - we never started it right - we simply laid the blue clay on top of the original soil & didn't compact - now I know - that was not the right thing to do. Most of you who responded - suggested it could take more than 1 season to 'seal' - and it did.

Here's what we did that I think 'assisted' in it holding water this winter.

1) We drained the pond completely & sprayed it with a product called DB-100 from http://www.ponddoctors.org. Really, slimy, slippery stuff - not very expensive either.

2) Covered it with new clay & compacted where we could - some walls just too steep.

3) Got more runoff 'directed' into the pond' for the winter

It's pretty deep - 18' in spots, and we got it 3/4 full this winter and holding.

Just last week - to solve the problem of a consistent water source - I also installed a solar water pump - with the help of the guys from Oasis Montana. My only water source other than runoff is 2100' away and 130' down the hill. A single 130 Watt solar panel & a Loretnz Boost 'slow pump' - (it's a little bitty thing 10" long by 4" wide)- pumps nearly 2.5 gal/min for 6-7 hours a day...every day...its impressive.

FYI - these 'slow pumps' can't do a lot of volume as you might think of a trash pump, etc. But they are made for this type of app & can push the water in excess of 400' high! That's very hard to do!

Some of you guys may already know all of this - but for me - first time around. Really interesting experience.

Thanks for all your help - I suspect we'll top it off this winter - and/or as we continue to pump thru the summer.

Thanks for your help - this site is invaluable for a novice like myself.

If I can answer any other questions about what we did - please let me know.

Thanks to all,

signed,

Happy in WNY now... aka Jim
jlodestro, glad to hear we have another NY hole in the ground, it's a great place to get rid of your excess money. \:D
Good Luck, let us know what you put in it.
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/11/09 04:11 PM
Great news jlodestro! Is stocking next? What are your goals for this pond?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/11/09 04:40 PM
Do you think the DB-100 played a 'big' role in stopping the seepage?

I've got a similar problem, dam with no core and seepage. Draining and repairing didn't fix it. Bentonite didn't fix it. I thought it was starting to seal off but when the water level went down and came back up...started to leak again this year. Looks like the only way is to completely start over.

I would be really interested to know if the DB-100 worked. If so, I think I might just give it a try. Sounds real interesting.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/11/09 10:19 PM
I am very interested in this product DB-100 and I see they also have DB-200. I too have a pond that is in it's second year and due to improper construction STILL isn't holding water to the point i'd like. I have about 4 1/2 feet of water currently and i'm hoping this product may be the cheap answer i've been looking for to get it to full pool. They told me I could simply spray this product on the banks and into the existing water and it would more than likely seal the pond after one to two applications. This product is dirt cheap compared to the ESS-13 or bentonite treatments so as you can imagine i'm skeptical. I have tried too many things to even list to get this pond to seal so i'm up for about anything other than draining it and installing a liner. Do you think this product was what did it for you? And how hard was the application? The way it was explained to me it would be rather difficult to apply it to pond and banks and you would need some type of trash pump. Thanks for any help you can give me!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 09:33 AM
Tell me more where do you find this stuff.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 09:34 AM
By the wat Jim welcome to the forum.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 11:51 AM
Mike Otto

Here is the link to the product. It sounds too good to be true but for the price i'm going to give it a try. These people are located in Tennesse which is close to me so he invited me to stop by and take a look at the produt if i wanted to. It's basically just a polymer that supposedly collects suspended particles and organics and pulls them to the pond bottom where it then plugs holes and swells up to 500 times their intial size. He also said I could apply it with a Miracle Grow garden sprayer which seems easy enough. It treats new or existing ponds with water already in them which is the best part for me since mine is half full. I'm going to buy 6 gallons which treats 3/4 acre and try it this week and i'll definately stay in touch if I have any results. He claims his pond was leaking 1 1/2 inches per day and with 3 treatments he now has it only losing water to evaporation, so it sounds impressive. This may be the answer i've been looking for!

http://www.ponddoctors.org/polymer.html <------Link
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 05:15 PM
I'll try to answer all of the questions above in one post.

For Cheezy1963 and Belkins456 - I think the DB100, combined w/ Bentonite and the new clay had a HUGE impact.

By example - When we were applying the DB 100 - we had a brine tank 400 gal on the back of the truck. The idea was we'd suck 400 gal out of the pond add the DB 100 & spray it back on afterward w/ a 2" pump. (This method worked pretty well btw - you can cover a LOT of ground w/ a 2" pump) My buddy did NOT put the plug in very well - so as we were sucking in the 400 gal the water was literally leaking out of this plug at the bottom of the tank. Probably at a rate of to 1+/gal/min - it was a pretty big leak - back of the truck was soaked. We added the DB100 when the tank was app 1/2 full. I recall you need to mix the stuff a MINIMUM of 500:1 - so in that 400 gal tank we were using less than 1 gal. Well once I added the DB100 - it stopped the leak on this tank in app 30 sec. Amazing. The entire tank takes on the consistency of Jello - very slippery / slimy stuff. When it hits the clay - some of it soaks in - and the surface becomes really slick.

When using this stuff - compact BEFORE you spray, unless you cover it w/ new material. I don't know how you could compact w/ the slippery surface - unless the pond is completely empty.

If you use this stuff - it can be tough on some of the fish - so - be aware of that.

Also - they suggest you disperse Bentonite into the water (granular form) & it will combine w/ the DB100 - and theoretically sink to the hole. Now I drained my pond - and sprayed the whole darn thing - so I can't speak to this usage.

They also suggest it will take multiple coatings - I did 2...

For Otto - the link above is correct.

For Jeffhasapond - fish next. I have a proper hatchery close by & am going to work w/ him on a recommendation for the pond. I suspect based on the 1st conversation it will be some combination of LMB, Crappie, Bluegill, Perch & some type of channel cat / bullhead - fatheads of course as well.

I think that is it. Happy to answer any other questions.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 06:36 PM
Jlodestro,

Thanks for your response! I dont plan on rigging up any type of pump application due to cost of buying a trash pump. He told me if i were patient and could get a garden hose down to it I could simply spray it on one quart at a time through a miracle grow garden sprayer or any other type of yard sprayer. Since that costs nothing other than cost of my water bill i'll probably just go that route. Do you know anyone else who has ever used just this product alone and stopped a leak? I'm thinking since you went back and added clay and compacted your soil that alone probably fixed your leak and you may be giving undue credit to the DB-100. What i'm looking for is something that up until now I didn't think existed. I want a product thats easy to apply, can be used on existing pond and applied to banks above water level to virtually stop seepage and seal pond off. Thanks again for your input!
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 07:50 PM
Belkins456 - It's hard to say all what might have worked. I don't know if it was a combination - but I know this was the 3rd winter before this thing held any water.

I think for what you are trying to do - as I understand the DB100 - that's what it is supposed to do. You should be able to just spray it on - period.

I hope you give it a whirl - it can'r hurt! Let us know.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/12/09 08:15 PM
thanks for the response jlodestro. I'm going to do a little more investigating before jumping on this. I've already wasted too much money and want to make sure this product will work. I'm hoping it does much more than just target the pond bottom (or outer layer). I hope there is some penetration with it....otherwise the seal won't last.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/14/09 04:49 PM
Well I ordered 6 gallons of DB-100 today and will apply it with nothing more than garden hose and miracle grow sprayer. It should be in early next week so after I apply it I will closely monitor water loss and see if this is a miracle cure or just more money dumped into the bottomless pit! Wish me luck!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/14/09 08:35 PM
I would be very interested with your results belkins456. I'm torn right now between 3 different products. AquaBlock pondseal, Water$ave PL (another polymer) and the DB-100. All seem like they would work. A positive result may help with my decision.

Too bad you can't have them ship you the product and then pay them after you verify that it works. Now that would be a deal \:\)
Posted By: wivell Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/15/09 12:59 PM
Good Luck
belkins, hope it works for you, sounds promising.
How much did 6 gallons cost?
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/17/09 01:07 AM
Cheezy1963 -

Lucky for me I've never heard of those other two so the choice was easy...ha-ha When I googled them I didn't get much and I couldn't get that web link to work. I'm putting my faith in the DB-100 and I will definately post results!
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/17/09 01:08 AM
212 dollars plus shipping.
That is a real bargain if the product seals the pond, hope it works, keep us posted.
Yes, please keep us posted. I also have one that wasn't properly cored. This just sounds too simple. My normal fix to anything is to dump tons of money or ignore it.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/17/09 04:24 PM
belkins456,

Did you happen to get/see a MSDS sheet?

I think I found the Water$ave PL in Australia and haven't got a response back from them yet. Doesn't look promising if they won't respond. I misspelled 'AquaBlok'. They are here in the states and seem to have a pretty solid product. I'm a little skeptical about it because it is based on bentonite and I've already tried that.

I've been looking for a solution for my leak since I became a forum member. The DB-100 almost seems to good to be true.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/18/09 03:47 AM
I didn't see a MSDS sheet for this product but they claim it is 100 percent fish safe if thats your concern.

I looked at that AquaBlok product and i'm almost certain it will be expensive. Have you checked prices on it yet? I'm not a big fan of any bentonite product as I have heard so many mixed results on it. Trust me I feel the same way you do. I too have been looking for a leak solution for over a year now and it's really the main reason I joined the Pond Boss Forum. It does seem too good to be true but I have been feeling lucky lately so we'll see?? I went down to pond and weed eated the banks down to bare soil this afternoon to prepare it for treatment next week. The fact such a thick stand of grass was growing on banks tells me there probably isn't alot of Clay there since grass doesn't tend to grow in it but i'm still crossing fingers... Stay tuned!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/18/09 04:29 AM
thanks belkins456.

I wasn't really too worried about my fish. I was more concerned if there where any long term affects that may occur. If it fixes my leak I wouldn't care if all the fish float : ) Keeping the water is much more important.

I spoke to a AquaBlok sales guy (real nice guy) but didn't get a price quote so you may be correct on the high price. He did tell me that the price was comparable to bentonite. Good luck and I look forward to your results......if I can wait that long before buying some myself.
I've been thinking about this and would really like to find a miracle fix to my non cored pond. I have had some crud, mostly sand from the sandy loam, wash into the bottom of my pond. I'm sure the leak is caused by not coring. It would be nice to find something that works instead of starting over.

I'm skeptical about anything that might suck sand into a hole and bind everything together to fix a leak.

In my area, rain can be a pretty chancy thing and losing what water we do get ain't all that great. Please let us know how it works.
I'm looking forward to the results also, up here water is plentyful, but the gravity feed lines freeze up and it's hard to pump below zero.
The pond dropped more than 3ft. this winter and with a max. depth of only 8ft. I know this helped lead to the trout winterkill.
If the DB-100 will stop the seepage in my dam it could be the difference for trout survival, we await your results.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/19/09 02:31 AM
Wow i'm starting to feel the pressure of everyone waiting on my results. I feel like if this product works i'm going to send this guy ALOT of business. Shouldnt I get a discount on my proudct or maybe even like a free demo? ha ha
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/19/09 03:43 AM
I couldn't wait for your results and I hope I don't regret it. Went ahead and ordered two containers today. Hope to solve my leak problem before summer hits. Shouldn't be too far behind you with the results.
Posted By: bobad Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/19/09 12:54 PM
I don't know, but DB-100 sounds suspiciously like a product used as a surfactant in the crop dusting industry.

A friend used to use it, and would trick people into getting it on their hands. The real fun came when they tried to wash it off. It immediately became a thick, tenacious skin that got thicker and thicker the more they washed. It would absolutely make you fall down howling with laughter as they tried to wash it off.

Most surfactants in small amounts are fish friendly, but it it would warrant caution, if indeed DB-100 is a surfactant.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 02:49 AM
Wow you are alot like me! You want instant gratification! Mine should be here first thing in the morning and I have the whole day blocked off to spray, spray, spray! How may gallons did you end up ordering? What size is your pond again and how much water is currently in it? Mine is about half full so i'm going to have to soak the banks really good. The only thing is now we are closing in on Summer and i've missed out on all these 3-5 inch rains. My luck i'll spray this stuff and we'll start a 4 month drought..ha I'm tempted to leave the hose in there for a week or so to bring water level back up and see if it leaks back down. Thing is my wife may kill me when we get our water bill! :-(
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 03:46 AM
haha bobad, did your friend play that trick on you : ) You could be onto something. It could be the same product. As long as it works, I will be happy.

belkins456, not sure I would say instant gratification. More like long awaited gratification. My order should be here tomorrow but I don't think I'll have time to apply it for another day or so. Good luck with your spraying. I modified my trash pump today so hopefully I will be able to easily apply it.

I ordered 2 containers which I think is 12 gallons total. My pond is full and ~.75 acres. I got lucky with the rain which filled mine up from the winter loss.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 09:29 AM
Looking forward to hearing about the results.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 12:40 PM
I'm confused on why you bought 2? My pond is .75 acres as well and he told me one 6 gallon container was more than enough for one treatment. Are you just going for the overkill hoping it will have a better chance to seal or did I not buy enough?? Let me know how the trash pump application works. If I have to treat this again I may not have 6 hours to stand around with a garden hose.

thanks.
Assuming that this stuff is a liquid and that you knew the general area of the leak, why couldn't you pour it through a hose that is weighted on the end? Seems like it would not disperse to other areas where you don't need it.

Gotta admit that I'm skeptical. Otto once told me that the toughest problem he runs into is a leak.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 06:59 PM
belkins456, I got two containers because that is what he told me I needed. I was wondering if that would be enough. Maybe it is because of the amount of water loss? or total acre feet? I'm loosing just a bit over 1/2 inch a day and have about 5 acre/ft. I don't think I will be using all of the product during the first application. I will be calling the sales guy once I get the product so we can go over the details on the application.

dave, I'm pretty sure it is a liquid but I don't know where the leak is on the inside. I use to think I knew where the leak was but now I'm not so sure. I can surely see the seepage on the backside of the dam, but can't be sure how/where it is getting through on the inside. I think you have a very good idea if a person knew for sure where the leak was on the inside.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/20/09 11:45 PM
Cheezy1963- Not sure about that. We have same size pond, same water loss yet I was told to get ONE 6 gallon bucket? Oh well I'm guessing too much of this is a good thing. I may order another 6 gallons if I see this slow the leak down considerably. I can tell you this. Do NOT try to apply with Miracle Grow sprayer. I spent 5 hours today spraying and spraying and I still have 2 or more gallons left for tommorrow. It seemed to clog quite a bit as well. I had to turn it upside down and shake it up to get it flowing again. Use the trash pump for sure! Also be careful trying to walk on banks. I busted my a*s several times. It's slicker than ice and thats a fact!

Bobad- You may be onto something with the crop surfactant. I tried to wash my hands off in the tub and it literally took 10 minutes of scrubbing to get it off! My hands were getting slicker and slicker the more water I applied..ha ha. This will be great for gags such as putting it on friends golf club..he he I can definately see how it works though because after I finally got it off my hands all the dirt that came off my hands was immediately collected together and almost etched into side of tub wall...nice! I'm hoping this stuff is plugging leaks as I speak..time will tell!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/21/09 03:02 AM
belkins456....Maybe I will have some left over. Sounds like the time spent modifying my trash pump was well worth it. Hopefully it won't make a big mess so I don't slip on the bank \:\) Sounds like you had fun anyways and thanks for the heads up.

What about water visibility? Mine is about 6 inches right now.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/21/09 10:04 AM
It sounds like you have but some out (not suer if you have or not) if you have can you tell a difference in the water loss.
Posted By: fixmypond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/21/09 06:43 PM
when your water level receeds, you loose all the sealing ability between the new water level and the old.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/22/09 12:32 AM
otto, I haven't got the product yet. Hope to have it soon.

fixmypond, are you sure about this? why would it loose the sealing ability?
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/22/09 02:23 AM
I finished spraying the rest of product today and I will be closely monitoring water level. I have to keep in mind that it's mid 80's and very humid right now so I will be losing quite a bit to evaporation as well so may be harder to actually monitor right now.

fixmypond- What you are saying is in direct disagreenment with the sales person of this product. I was told it works well when you saturate the banks and will "reactivate" to form a seal once rain saturates it. You could be right here? I'm definately no expert but I hope you're wrong. Either way I put alot on the banks and directly into the water so I should have it covered. This is the final straw for me I think. If this doesn't make a huge difference i'm going to put a sign up that says dump site and start filling it in so I can plant grass on it and not have a huge mud hole out in front of my house!! I never knew a leaking pond could drive you so insane! but man something is going to have to give sooner or later!!!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/22/09 04:29 AM
belkins456, do you have any visible water loss or a spot where you can see the water leaking? Once I apply it, it will be easy for me to tell because I have visual seepage on the toe of the dam. I feel your pain. My leak has been driving me insane also.

Don't you hate it when someone rains on your parade. I would like to know why fixmypond thinks it wont reseal if the water level fluctuates.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/22/09 04:35 AM
jlodestro, I forgot to ask how you found out about the DB-100. I thought I had just about researched all the possible solutions. Makes me wonder if there maybe any other products out there.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/22/09 02:12 PM
Cheezy1963- My pond is in a bottom in a bowl shaped area so there is no dam or any obvious spot for water to escape except for straight down. I've determined I don't have a "hole" or an obvious leak point. I think mine is just a slow seepage leak over entire area of pond basin. I'm going down this morning to mark water level on banks and then sit back and watch. I'll give everyone results in a few days. If it moves more than an inch in a few days I'd say even with evaporation I have a leak wouldnt you say?

Fixmypond is trying to rain on my parade when I really just want it to rain on my pond instead..ha
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/23/09 02:28 PM
Cheezy1963 - I found DB-100 & the PondDoctors web site via the internet & google - just searching. I found multiple products - like Ess-13 (really expensive. Candidly - the only reason I went w/ DB-100 is because the guys called me back & talked to me...couldn't get a call back from some of the other shops.

With regards to Dave Davidson1 - as I understand it (and I have seen it) - if you just take the liquid and drop it into the water it forms a gooey ball - that sinks. But I think because there is not much agitation of the water - the ball doesn't get very big - therefore the probability it hits the hole probably isn't good.

When I applied it we had a 300+gal brine tank on the back of a truck. You are supposed to mix it 500:1 - min. One half gallon of the stuff turned that entire brine tank into a jello like consistency. We took a 2" trash pump and sprayed it - on the bare banks - we drained the pond pretty much. Even in this jello form - it sinks - you can see it.

Good luck gentlemen - I am interested in what happens.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/24/09 05:00 PM
Well I wanted to post my results so far. It has been a little over 48 hours now since I applied DB-100 and the water level has receeded right around an inch from the marks I had made at several locations at water line on banks. It has been really hot the last two days but that seems a little excessive for evaporation in just two days so I assume i'm still seeping. I'll give it another few days and monitor losses more closely but at this point it may be time to go ahead and start making those "dump site" signs to post out by road.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/24/09 07:46 PM
belkins456, are you measuring the vertical water loss? I never had much luck with really measuring the water as it recedes down the bank. You may get a better idea with a yard stick in the water or something. Did you notice if your water cleared any?

It has been 24 hours since my application of 4 gallons of the DB-100. The only change that I noticed is that my water is just a bit clearer. Went from 5 inches to 6 inches. Was pretty simple to apply with a 3 inch trash pump and mixed very well. One thing I would note, don't let the pump run out of gas. It is very hard to get primed with a pump full of DB-100. I will wait a few days and apply some more.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/24/09 07:55 PM
Cheezy1963- I will put a yardstick in it and measure it that way. My water definately cleared quite a bit. I had some floating algae on it and it seemed to clump it together and force some of it the bottom. I'm just still unsure about the sealing principles of product but maybe I haven't give it enough time to dillute entire pond yet?

The trash pump definately seems like way to go. Did you get any product on your hands? Slick stuff huh!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/24/09 08:40 PM
Same here, I'm not sure exactly how it works but do think it does take some time to work and maybe a couple of treatments.

I managed to stay pretty clean. The only mess was after the pump ran out of gas and I had to restart it. The stuff clogged up the hose and took a while to get out. Came out on the bank and made a mess. Took a while to wash it off the bank and that was the only time I really saw the product in the water. I expected to see the product mix with the water but was surprised that I really couldn't see it. The pump must have done a real good job mixing it. Judging by the amount of floc, I don't expect to see results until after a couple of treatments.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 03:28 PM
First
Welcome fixmypond Hope you stat with us.

Please keep me posted to the success of this stuff it could be a complete business on to itself.
Posted By: burgermeister Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 05:11 PM
also watching for results here. IMHO, if you're looking for less than an inch drop in 2 or 3 days, ya'll are dreaming.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 07:39 PM
Burgermeister- So you think an inch drop every 2 or 3 days is acceptable? At that rate you would lose 1.5 foot of water per month and 4.5 in 3 months (which puts my pond basically dry) just to put it in perspective. Granted that is not counting rainfall back into the pond but for last two summers we've went months on end without rain so i'm expecting the worst. I think something around 1/4 inch or less every 2 to 3 days would be more acceptable. Any experts on water loss and evaporation?
Posted By: thunderworks Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 08:03 PM
I'm no expert, but I think I've read in numerous places that up to an inch a day due to evaporation is normal in hot climates (I'm in Kansas)
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 08:53 PM
Evaporation rates will vary. One thing you can try is put a bucket in the pond and weight it down. Mark the water level on the outside of the bucket (should be about an inch from the top)and then fill the bucket with water until it is level with the outside. Watch it for 24 hours and see if the water level inside the bucket is lower than the outside level. Or buy and evaporation pan....not cheap.
Posted By: burgermeister Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/25/09 11:44 PM
Here is a general estimation. http://www.grow.arizona.edu/Grow--GrowResources.php?ResourceId=208
That is about 1.5 inches per wk annual average in the southeast. I have read posts about humidity being high, etc.
Actually, logically, when humidity is low, as this time of year when fronts come thru and humidity drops and wind howls is the worst time. Probably 1/2 or more inch per day. Also, following this logic, Arizona has over 100 per year. Aeration also causes evaporation(but I love aerations effects).

Also, as Otto has quoted many times...all ponds leak. You need to
1. have sufficient watershed for the area
2. a way of replenishing the water
3. keep the biomass low enough to withstand the drop in water
volume.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/26/09 04:16 AM
thanks burgermeister. Real handy link.
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/26/09 03:43 PM
Very interesting link Burger. I've been looking for something like that. I've never accurately measured it but I can tell you from general observation that DIED's pond and my pond can definately drop an several inches in a week due to evaporation, probably more. DIED would be able to provide a more accurate number I'm sure. Both my pond and DIED's have dropped 6-7 verticle feet in a year, last year my guess would have been closer to 8 feet. So evaporation, depending upon where you live, can play a major role in pond shrinkage.
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/26/09 07:23 PM
So I have a question for Otto or Theo - or any other expert out there on evaporation. When you look at this website for example - in SW NY where my pond is I am somewhere between 35-40 inches / year of evaporation. However - I have a hard time believing in the Months of N-D-J-F-M - really seeing how you get any evaporation since we usually have snow up to our yin-yangs (that's a technical term I think.

In any event is it legitimate to think of that evaportation chart in terms of maybe the 7 drier months? In which case - I should expect a number that is closer to an inch / week. 40 inches over app 40 weeks?

Any ideas? Just curious.


JL
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/26/09 07:56 PM
FWIW I think you're right. Evaporation will be maximized when it is hot, dry, or windy - get two or three of those and you will lose the most water.

Even a frozen pond will lose some water (ice) to dry air via sublimation (think of that old ice cube tray in the back of the freezer slowly becoming empty), but it will be at a very low rate compared to open water evaporation.
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/27/09 01:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: From the Link Above
"The evaporation rate varies with temperature, wind speed, sunshine, and relative humidity. The evaporation rate also varies throughout the year. A rough daily rate is given by dividing the annual rate by 365 days.

Rough daily evaporation rate = Annual Evaporation rate / 365

Posted By: Mykol Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/27/09 03:17 AM
Hey Cheezy 1963,
Any results so far? You applied the product on Saturday the 23rd, right? Talk to us!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/27/09 03:54 AM
Sorry Mykol, all the talk about evaporation almost made me forget : )

So far it is hard to tell. My first application of 4 gallons was on May 23rd. As of this morning, it looked like it may be slowing the seepage just a tiny bit but it is hard to tell. There was no major change like I was hoping for.

I went ahead and put the remaining 8 gallons in this evening and belkins456 will be happy that I actually managed to get some of the stuff on me. I must of had some on my hand when I decided to wipe the sweat off my forehead. That was a big mistake. The more you wipe, the more it seems to clone it's self.

I would expect to see some visible results within a few days if this stuff is going to work. If not, I won't be purchasing anymore and will move on to plan B....installing a toe drain and pump.


JL, regarding evaporation, starting in July look at the sky. Those clouds are my ponds evaporating at high speed and heading your way. I'm at the 100 inch per year level.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/27/09 08:25 PM
cheezy1963- That's hilarious! I told you that stuff was super slick and you are right the more you try to wash it off the more it clones itself and becomes even slicker! I'm going to buy another gallon just for gags and pranks! I forgot to tell you in last post it made my hands so slick that my wedding band slipped off my finger without my noticing while washing them off. I noticed the next day it was gone and freaked out! I calmly didn't alert my wife and went back to pond and walked around it for an hour or so until by mere luck I walked right upon the ring in the tall grass! I mean it was a needle in a haystack but somehow i found it. Man I was relieved!

I will have to add that i honestly feel like my seepage has slowed down greatly! We just had a 1 inch rain today so it's back up quite a bit. This should be a nice test to see how quick it leaks back down or if it even does. Keeping fingers crossed!!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/28/09 03:29 AM
You're lucky belkins456, I would have been shot on site after loosing my wedding band.

Glad to hear you feel your seepage has slowed. So far, I have not seen any noticeable change in mine. But then again, it has only been 24 hours since my last application. I did notice that the water visibility went from 6 inches to 9 inches.
Posted By: Mykol Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/28/09 03:31 AM
I called and talked to Doug at Pond Doctors today and he did mention one thing that may help this product seal if you have a failed attempt. He said apply dusted clay or bentonite during the application of the DB-100 and the materials "clump" while in suspension and settle, then swell hopefully in a point of leakage. Also, he recommended placing an inlet barbed "y" fitting in the suction hose of your pump. The pump suction hose is placed in the pond and siphons the product, which could have the volume regulated by a valve in the hose between this fitting and the DB-100 container. Then just tug the discharge hose around to disperse the mixture. Good luck,please keep us posted and I plan to order mine soon to give it a try!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/28/09 04:30 AM
Well, I would think that I already have enough suspended clay in the water to help things out. Visibility was like 5 inches when I started and that was all clay. I saw major floc/clumping while applying the product. Seems like if the product/DB-100 doesn't really get into the ground at the point of seepage, then it really wouldn't work long term.

I did something similar to the "y" fitting with my setup. I just drilled and taped the suction connector and inserted a 3/8 barb fitting which was the size suggested for a 3 inch pump. Ran a line to a valve and then into the DB-100 container.

Notes: Start the pump with the valve closed and then open it once the water is flowing. The product is real thick and flows pretty slow. Think I was going through about 4 gallons an hour with the valve wide open. Make sure you don't open the valve when no water is flowing. It will suck that stuff into the pump and stop it up. That is what happened to me. Took a while to get it re-primed.

Still waiting on the magic to happen : )
Hey, just wanted to throw our product in the ring. ESS-13 has been used for many years (about 50 actually) to seal up leaky lakes and ponds. It's manufactured by a company here in Phoenix, AZ (Seepage Control, Inc.) and is shipped all over the world. Typically seepage reductions from a waterborne treatment can be 60-90%. The effectiveness does depend on the actual source of the leak. It you have a bathtub drain at the bottom of your pond, you're probably not going to see great results. ;\)

You can check out the product, case studies, etc. at http://www.seepagecontrol.com . Another heads up...It's a commercial product used in large ponds and lakes so the pricing may not fit a small pond owners budget. If anyone has any questions though please call or email. Vance C.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/29/09 09:28 PM
thanks Seepage Control. I spoke to your company several times and can say that they have been very nice and helpful. But as you mentioned, the product is very expensive and out of my range which is the only thing that has kept me from buying the product.

I called Seepage Control this year before buying the DB-100 just to see if the price had changed but it wasn't my lucky day. There is always hope.

Update on my DB-100 application, it has been a few days since my last application. So far I haven't noticed a significant change in the seepage and I monitor the water level 2 times a day. I'll give it another week to see if anything changes.

belkins456, are you seeing any positive results of the DB-100?
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/30/09 02:59 AM
Seepage control- Thanks for heads up but I checked on your product already as well. For the price I was quoted for your product I could have purchased TWO .20 mil PVC Pond liners and overlapped them. Seriously I really could have! It just seemed ridiculous considering at that kind of price I was still taking a risk and not getting 100% results. I would be curious to see a sample of your product though and compare apples to apples to the DB-100. I just don't see how one product can be so wildy expensive compared to the other. I realize you get what you pay for in this world but sometimes there are outrageous markups as well. Thanks again for your info and you seem to have a great product...i'm just not sure how anyone can afford it?? :-(

Cheezy1963- I can definately notice a difference. For one my pond has cleared up beyond belief. All floating alagae or organics are completely gone now! (Hopefully they are down on pond bottom plugging leaks) We had a nice rain a couple days ago so the pond went back up almost foot! So far knock on one it is showing no signs of seeping back down as it normally would by now. I believe at minimum I have greatly slowed down the leak and if it continues to show signs of sealing you better believe i'll spray 6 more gallons in it! I'll be using a trash pump this time though of course! :-) and i'll be leaving my wedding band at home!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/30/09 03:30 PM
This is getting fun. The problem of seeping ponds is about the most asked question when the phone rings.

Price is always big part of the equation when we decide what to do or not do.
PLEASE KEEP US POSTED.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/01/09 05:15 AM
Well, I "think" I'm starting to see some good results. I have no more standing water on the north side toe of my dam. I still see some standing water on the west side toe but the amount is less than a week ago. Seems to be working but just taking a little while. I guess that makes a little sense because the dam would be saturated and I have a pretty wide area of seepage.

Now I say "think" because there are a couple of factors that kind of have me wondering if it is really working. 1) I've lost just over 3 inches of water since my first application of the DB-100 on May 23rd. The water level drop could be reducing the water pressure on the area of the seepage. 2)It has been very dry and evaporation could be making a bigger impact on the water standing at the toe of the dam.

Will be interesting to see if I start seeing more seepage again at the toe of the dam when the water rises. fixmypond suggested that it would not hold the seal when the water level changes.

I will keep monitoring the seepage and see what happens. Wish I could give more exact feedback one way or another but I'm just not seeing real clear results like belkins456.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think it's great that you've already had a chance to weigh ESS-13 as an option (that means I'm doing my job :)).

It is unfortunate that the pricing didn't work out though. I don't know how big your ponds are, but we are typically a savings over plastic on our commercial projects. We don't usually see people using 20 mil PVC because it is not as durable as the thicker liners. Even with the more costly 30 mil and 40 mil PVC liners you have a product that deteriorates over time. We have many customers that have used our ESS-13 to repair/replace an existing PVC liner, sometimes just 5 to 10 years after installation. An ESS-13 liner is designed to be a permanent solution.

I also don't really know anything about the DB100 product. However, I do know that ESS-13 has many years of development and refinement behind it. I also know that for as much refinement as we've done there are a multitude more soil types out there, creating endless possible combinations. Each year we know more about the product and where it is most effective.

Fixing a leaking pond usually comes down to a combination of expertise, knowledge, and the right products. Seepage Control is a good balance of all three. Our people have been traveling the country for many years helping people with their lake and pond issues. We’ve also observed and then improved upon the use of our products. Every lake seems to be a little different…

I wish you guys luck with your ponds and please know that we are here to answer questions and help out however we can. You can email me directly at vance@seepagecontrol.com and probably get a faster response. Have a great day!! \:\) VC
Posted By: ymurf Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/02/09 01:34 AM
Hello all,New here and found this site by searching the web for a way to fix my pond leak.I had my pond dug 3 years ago and just don't get the proper amount of run off.And it is leaking which doesn't help.It is about .75 acre and I was dumb enough to have it dug right in my back yard so I have to look at the half empty hole all the time so believe me I feel you guys pain.I am getting ready to get some bentonite this week and try the sprinkle on the water way to use it.It has took 3 years to get my pond half full so I really don't want and cant afford to drain it and have it worked on.On the back side of my dam from about a foot up there is about a 10 yard wide wet spot and water standing in the field just below it so I am assuming my leak is through the dam someplace in that area.I have never heard of this liquid product your talking about so I am very interested in your results.This bentonite is my last straw.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/02/09 02:19 AM
ymurf- Welcome to Pond Boss!

I totally understand your frustration. Good luck with the bentonite! Since you at least think you know where the leak is that should help with your chance of success. Keep in mind that if you don't have the proper runoff the pond may never be full even if you fix the leak. I'm beginning to wonder if runoff may play a role in my problem as well?
YMURF, welcome to PB.

I have never heard of anyone fixing a leak using Bentonite by the sprinkle method. I've tried it twice and it just floated to the bank.
Posted By: ymurf Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/02/09 03:49 AM
 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
YMURF, welcome to PB.

I have never heard of anyone fixing a leak using Bentonite by the sprinkle method. I've tried it twice and it just floated to the bank.

There are three different grades,There is powder and there is granular and there is pellet.The granular and pellet will sink to the bottom but the powder will float more,It is used only if pond id drained.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/02/09 05:05 AM
Like Dave, I got no joy by sprinkling bentonite and I tried powder, granular and pellet. I applied by boat and from shore. Over 2 tons total in ~.75 acre. Didn't seem to matter that I thought I knew where the leek was....it either didn't work or the source of the leak is somewhere else. Also could be because it really doesn't stay in place if the sides are too steep.

Good luck with it ymurf, it may work for you.
Posted By: ymurf Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/02/09 10:27 AM
I don't have much faith either that's why I am curious about the luck they get with this liquid stuff.
Ymerf, you can review our product and case studies at http://www.seepagecontrol.com or call our offices and someone can help you troubleshoot what is going on. There is also a form on the contact page that asks questions about the pond to help our people get a better picture of what is going on.

The bentonite won't hurt anything, but I doubt if sprinkling it is going to accomplish what you are hoping for. Just let us know if you'd like some help. Vance C.
Posted By: ymurf Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/04/09 10:39 AM
You guys notice any leak fixes from using the DB-100 yet?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/04/09 07:00 PM
ymurf, I no longer have any standing water at the toe of my dam but the ground is still a little damp. Went from about .5 inches loss a day to a little over .25 inches per day. Still waiting on the rain to bring the water level back up to see if it holds. I plan on ordering another 6 gallons even though I'm not absolutely sure it fixed the leak......because it does a pretty good job of clearing the water and does not cost that much more than the equivalent amount of alum.

Seems like belkins456 had good results.

I would be interested to find out if anyone else has tried DB-100 and what their results are also.
Posted By: tmc Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/07/09 05:56 PM
Hey, I used to check this site often but have been away for a while. My pond has 6" - 12" of "muck" on the bottom, mostly decomposed organic material. Does anyone have an opinion about the DB-100 being able to consolidate this material and hopefully slow my leakage? The dam is covered with trees, most too large to remove, and I suspect there is leakage around roots as well as through rock strata around the pond. I can't afford to drain and have the muck removed, so hopefully this product will help. I tried emailing the company selling DB-100, but the email kept being rejected as an invalid address. I will call them tomorrow. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/08/09 09:09 PM
Sorry i've been out of the loop for a while! I definately have considerable difference in seepage now. I still can't determine if what i'm losing is from seepage or evaporation but i'd say its at least slowed water loss down 60% if not more. I'm going to put another 6 gallons in because just as cheezy1963 said even if it doesnt slow or stop your leak (which in my opinion it does) it still is one hell of a water clarifier and is dirt cheap! Keep in mind also I dont have a leaking dam or what i would consider a hole in my pond. It just has a slow seepage over entire basin in my opinion so results may vary on different types of leaks obviously.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/08/09 10:34 PM
Same here belkins456, I can't be for sure that the DB-100 totally stopped the seepage but it does look like it slowed it down. I'm going to order another 6 gallons and see where it goes from there. Sure would be nice if I could get some rain to raise the water level to see what happens to the seepage rate.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/08/09 11:26 PM
Well hot dry summer is just around the corner so I wouldn't count on rain too much. I just hope I can keep most of the water I already have and top it off with nice fall and winter rains later on this year! Cheezy can you explain to me in some detail how you rigged the trash pump to spray. Did you apply to banks or just pump it right into the water? I think i'm just going to rig a trash pump and spray it into existing water. Too much trouble to go around and cover entire bank area since my pond is on a steep grade.
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/09/09 02:56 AM
My turn next. Friday I'll be getting some of the DB-200(6lbs dry) 'an DB-100(3 gal. liquid). This weekend I'll spread 1/4 ton of lime dust/gravel, then ??100lbs of salt, and apply the dry polymer. Hopefully I can get a guy down the way with a big John Deer to spend a couple of hours packing down my 1/4 acre pond basin.

Thursday my well should be dug and maybe I can have it ready to pump by next week. I'm throwing everything, except bentonite, at the pond. There's no clay to be found nearby and water is the less pricey alternative if I can get the pond to seal somewhat. I pumped from 4" up to 15" of water today to see how bad it's leaking. (Edit: verified water loss at 2.25" a day; 6/11)

My hydro ram pump is really cool, pumps up about 16,000 gallons a month using only the energy from the flow, yet the spring quits when the weather turns hot/dry and pond water is needed the most. May be able to tweak more efficient use of the spring water in the future.

Doug of ponddoctors said the DB stuff is selling fast; will report soon!

Another update. Saturday June 13: Met Doug at his place yesterday, he had just received a fresh shipment of DB so I purchased 6 gal of dry DB-200 and 6 gal of wet DB-100. He gave me the $3 tour of his 2 ponds via golf cart; has big 10lb trout and aggressive BG. Monday/Tuesday goal; begin intalling a pump in my new 170' 6" diameter well. Wed/Thurs goal; spread 240lbs salt, 40+lbs of DB-200, 500lbs lime dust, and 500lbs bentonite. Friday, catch up day, I always get behind! Saturday, hopefully pump water. July is pond time.
Posted By: ymurf Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/09/09 03:15 AM
 Originally Posted By: SoSauty
My turn next. Friday I'll be getting some of the DB-200 'an DB-100. This weekend I'll spread 1/4 ton of lime dust/gravel, then ??100lbs of salt, and apply the dry polymer. Hopefully I can get a guy down the way with a big John Deer to spend a couple of hours packing down my 1/4 acre pond basin.

Thursday my well should be dug and maybe I can have it ready to pump by next week. I'm throwing everything, except bentonite, at the pond. There's no clay to be found nearby and water is the less pricey alternative if I can get the pond to seal somewhat. I pumped from 4" up to 15" of water today to see how bad it's leaking.

My hydro ram pump is really cool, pumps up about 16,000 gallons a month using only the energy from the flow, yet the spring quits when the weather turns hot/dry and pond water is needed the most. May be able to tweak more efficient use of the spring water in the future.

Doug of ponddoctors said the DB stuff is selling fast; will report soon!

You guys keep us posted on how this stuff works.I am having the guy that dug mine come here in july to do some grading to get more flow to my pond plus going to ad some gutters to the house to pipe to the pond but I still need to fix the leak or seepage I am getting out the back toe of my dam.Keep us posted.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/09/09 04:45 AM
Good luck SoSauty. I would say this site is probably responsible for the peak in DB100 sales : )

belkins456, all I did was drill and tap a hole in the 'suction' side aluminum hose fitting. Then I screwed in a 3/8 inch hose barb fitting. Ran a hose to a valve and then into the bucket. Need the valve so you can get the pump running and then open it up. Make sure you don't open the valve without water flowing.

I didn't want to risk messing up my pump, so I drilled the hole in the hose connector just above where the hose is clamped on. I'm not sure what the hose connectors are called but my connector slides on the pump and has two levers that pull forward to lock it on. The idea was that if I messed up, all I would have to do is by a new hose connector and then attach the hose back to it. Hope this makes sense.

The trick will be getting the right size hose barb fitting. In my application, I used a 3/8 inch. My pump is 3 inches and I have the discharge reduced to 1.5 inches. Seemed to mix real good. No clumping at all. Took about 1 hour to put out 6 gallons.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/09/09 09:26 AM
I spend most of my time trying to get the ponds to hold more water. You guys keep us posted.

Thanks for the info.

Otto
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/09/09 09:57 PM
Cheezy1963- If it's not too much trouble any way you could take a picture of that? I think I have an understanding but a picture is worth a thousand words! Those intake hoses are kind of expensive and I was going to be renting one so i'm not sure I can drill a rental coupling out?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 04:33 AM
Sure Otto. So far it seems to be working at reducing the seepage.

belkins456, I will take a picture for you tomorrow. I agree, once you see it....you will know what to do. If you are going to be renting the pump then you might want to start looking for a replacement connector. You shouldn't have to buy the whole hose + connector. When I was looking for a reducer to take the 3 inch discharge side down to 1.5 inches, I ran across a place that had just the connectors but I can't remember what they are called. It was a pipe fitting company that had them. You might do some checking around. Shouldn't cost too much compared to the whole suction hose...I would guess maybe less than $50.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 03:03 PM
belkins456, see if this pic helps.


Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 04:20 PM
Ok that is what i was picturing. Yes the picture helped alot! So from that threaded fitting you just ran a hose with valve back into your bucket of DB-100 and after water is pumping just open the valve right? What size hose is that again? I just need to find a cheap way to engineer this on a rented intake hose. Thanks again!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 04:43 PM
Yes, just run the hose to a valve and then into the bucket. Make sure you use some good hose that won't collapse. Close the valve until you get water going through the pump...then open the valve and you should see the DB-100 flowing if you used clear hose.

For my setup, I used a 3/8 barb fitting with a 3/8 valve and hose. I ran with the valve wide open and there was no clumping at all. Your setup may vary depending on the pump size. Mine is 3 inch with the discharge side reduced to 1.5 inches.

I bet you can find the aluminum hose connector. If you can, you could just modify the rented one and then replace it with the new one when your done. Or check into the insurance.
Guy's I've been following these posts with much interest cause I also have a leaky dam, I have one observation, wouldn't it work also if you connected the outlet of the pump to one arm of a Y valve, and a hose from the other arm of the valve into the DB-100 bucket, and run a hose from the outlet of the valve into the pond.
If this worked then you wouldn't have to worry about clogging up the pump.
The force of the water flowing thru the Y valve should create enough suction to draw the DB-100 out.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 06:37 PM
That's a really good question adirondack? It seems like it would work. I may try that since I do own a piece of discharge I could play with and not be out any money if i screw it up. As long as you are creating a draw and mixing the water with product I don't think it matters how it happens.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 08:18 PM
That is a good idea adirondack. Might just work. I'm not sure how much mixing the pump actually does. Would be worth a try.
Posted By: GeorgeS Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 09:14 PM
I'm ready to give the DB-100 a try (I think). My pond relies almost 100% on Spring runoff. It will drop over 50% by September on dry years. Where can I get the stuff?
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 11:15 PM
Georges - link below...

http://www.ponddoctors.org
Posted By: jlodestro Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/10/09 11:29 PM
Adirondack Pond - I don't think it will work. I recall speaking w/ the Ponddoctors guys (Doug I believe) - and I recall he said use a device like that on the inlet side.

When we did my pond last year - my brother in law mis-understood and made a home made y valve for the outlet side - it didn't work. There's no suction on that outlet side. DOesn't do diddly.

Which is why we went & got a brine tank & did it that way - takes way too long.

Cheesy did it the right way - but w/ the quick couplers he has - I don't know what challenges that provides for one of the y connectors
OK jlodestro, thanks for the info, I'm probably gonna order some DB-100 soon, if it works it can help cure my winterkill problem by allowing my pond to hold it's water level.
Posted By: TAB Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/12/09 09:38 PM
Dear Jim: I got your fax and wanted to reply, As you can see, my email was broken until today (06/12/2009). Here is what I had planned to send to Pond Boss a month ago.

Dear Folks at Pond Boss, I am Dr. Tom Biller, one of the Tennessee Pond Doctors. My father was the original pond doctor. He is now in heaven caring for all the earthen water containment structures up there. The input provided to you about one of our products, DB 100 (liquid Polymer), by Mr. Lodestro was very much appreciated. Our products perform as described and hearing from satisfied customers is most gratifying. This product is excellent and our product development team is working on a new form of DB 100 that will be significantly more effective. When that product is out we will be providing it as well. We also have a product named after yours truly, Tom Biller, TB 300 (True Blue 300). It is a highly concentrated blue aquatic dye that is livestock safe and fish friendly. We also have an aeration system (The Bubble Gun TM) that is very efficient, safe (no electrical lines in the water) and quiet. For individuals desiring to build a pond, we provide consultation services to most effectively locate and excavate your pond. We also have a dry polymer DB 200 named after the other pond doctor, (Doug Biller). This dry polymer is worked into the clay as you are lining a new pond or relining an existing pond and it greatly increases the water holding characteristics of your earthen water containment structure. Once again, we appreciate the kind words from satisfied customers. We would like the opportunity to make you a satisfied customer too. We can be reached at 423 715-0804 or 423 336-1253. Thanks, Doug and Tom Biller

-----Original Message-----
From: Pond Boss Forum [mailto:info@pondboss.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:40 PM
To: Tom Biller
Subject: Thank you for registering at Pond Boss Forum!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/13/09 03:19 AM
Go figure...I just placed my second order for the DB-100 and find out "our product development team is working on a new form of DB 100 that will be significantly more effective". Guess I need more patience. Can't wait to see/hear how well it works. Hope the price is still right.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/13/09 04:33 AM
Ha ha funny cheezy! I called today as well to check on getting some more DB-100 and the price has went up since just a couple weeks ago. I think I should of waited until I got my pond sealed completely before I told the world about my results and caused a supply and demand price increase ... I'm really hyped about the new prodcut though. If it works even better than the DB-100 i'm ready to get on the waiting list as long as price is right. I just dont want the success of this product to drive the prices up to the ridiculous costs of something like "ESS-13" I would hate to know that they have a product that can be manufactured for a profit even at 200 dollars and charge thousands for it! Let's face it most people can't/won't spend thousands of dollars on a pond liner or expensive overpriced polymers but when someone throws a product out there for under 200 bucks that can seal off your pond it's definately going to be a success!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/14/09 05:45 AM
I hear ya belkins456. I hope the market takes off. Can you imagine a day where you would have a choice of maybe 3 or 4 different pond sealing products that 'work' and are reasonably priced.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/14/09 01:29 PM
cheezy1963 I was wondering on your discharge side of pump how far of a spray pattern you got? I was thinking If i could reduce trash pump down to a small enough spray head it may spray 50-75 feet? If that was the case I wouldn't have to keep relocating the pump around the pond which would be a pain. I could stand in middle and get most of the banks and then move to other side and finish up.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/14/09 03:56 PM
The woman I am married to will not let me call you today because it is Sunday. And the phone will not work in the morning where I am going but As soon as it does. LOOK OUT.
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/14/09 04:14 PM
 Originally Posted By: otto
The woman I am married to ...

One can only imagine the terms of endearment she uses for you, Otto.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/14/09 08:36 PM
belkins456, I have a 3 inch discharge reduced to 1.5 inches. I would say it will spray out about 30-40ft. If I had a nozzle I bet it would go much further. Not sure what size pump you have or how much you could safely reduce it.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/15/09 02:18 AM
My pump is only a 2" inch but i'm still thinking I could get 60 feet or so out of it if it was reduced down to a nozzle type sprayer. Thanks for the info...you've been really helpful!

Otto- leave some product for us..ha ha I'm trying to get my pond completely sealed off before this new demand for the product drives the product to unaffordable prices! I'm betting this produt will mysteriously keep going up in price as time goes on. I'm tempted to buy a few 100 gallons for future use and resale down the road..lol
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/15/09 05:13 AM
belkins456, has your water level increased any? Is it still sealed?

I'm still waiting to see if the DB-100 will hold a seal after the water level rises. Unfortunately, I haven't had any rain to raise my water level back up to see if it still holds. I'm still wondering after reading fixmypond's post if it will hold or not.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/15/09 11:38 AM
Yes my water level is back up and holding fairly well. It's up close to 6ft range right now and i'm just hoping it will hang around that area through the hot dry months so it will fill up this fall and winter. I'm going to check and see when their "new improved" product comes out today and get an order placed if it's not too away from production!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 04:13 AM
Sounds like you are seeing real good results belkins456. I've had a couple of days with 1/4 inch or less loss which is good. The toe of my dam is just about dried out. I will try and post some before and after pics this weekend. I also plan on applying 6 more gallons of the DB-100 this weekend to help clear the water up some more and it doesn't hurt that it should help stop any remaining seepage. Are you sure the price went up for the DB-100? My order cost the same as it did several weeks ago : )

Keep us in the loop on what you find out about the "new and improved" version of the DB-100.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 12:16 PM
Really? When did you order? Mine was $252.00 for 6 gallons shipped to my door yesterday. Is that what you paid?? Yea i'm having really good luck out of it! I honestly think this next application may do the trick for me. I'll probably keep a couple gallons around through the summer to keep water clear and any floating algage away. I'm going to try and get trash pump rigged up for spraying today cheezy1963 so if I hit any snags I may have a couple questions for you? Thanks.

The "new and improved" DB-100 should be out sometime next month they are telling me. If it's same price I'll spray another few gallons out just for shi*s and giggles.
Posted By: GeorgeS Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 02:43 PM


I have had great success with this fine, soft, powdery-type substance. It is made from a mixture of elements that are found in natural materials such as limestone, clay, sand and/or shale. When I mix it with water---Shaazaam!
It's made up of Calcium, Silicon, Aluminum and Iron and is usually kinda gray. My advice: Keep it stored in a dry area. If it gets wet or damp the powder will turn into a 50lb hard lump!

(Sorry for the sarcasm---- I've been fighting a leaky pond for 8 years now!)
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 02:51 PM
belkins456, I ordered on Friday and paid the same amount you did. Good luck with the trash pump....I'm sure it will work fine for you. Just remember, only have the valve open to the DB-100 when water is flowing.

What the heck is that stuff GeorgeS?
Posted By: GeorgeS Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 04:11 PM
Redi-Mix Cement! ; )
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/16/09 07:04 PM
hahaha....I was wondering if it was something like that : )
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/17/09 12:49 PM
Still not had time to find out about this stuff but will try again soon.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 04:36 AM
Cheezy1963- Well I got my trash pump all rigged up and ready to go! Now I just need the product to spray. I did a test run on it this afternoon and man it worked GREAT! I took it down to pond, primed pump and started the spray. I then opened my valve and presto it began to draw water from my test bucket like a dream! On the discharge end I used regular 50ft blue 2" discharge hose connected to a 4 foot long 2"diameter PVC pipe coupled to a reducer of 3/4 inch! Talk about shooting a massive spray pattern out! I feel like i'm holding some kind of righteous water gun when I have the 4 ft PVC cannon in my hands ..ha ha It was literally spraying water 75 feet out with a ton of volume and force! Now i know how fire fighters must feel. I am a little concerned that it may be putting a bit of backpressure on my trash pump but it seemed to run fine and didn't get extremely hot or anything out of ordinary so i think it's ok? Spraying 6 gallons of DB-100 out is going to be a dream now..why didn't I do this the first time???
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 08:21 AM
This next week I will be getting some of this stuff and giving it a try.
Posted By: jsec Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 10:52 AM
How about some pics of this rig in action.
Posted By: GeorgeS Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 02:05 PM
Belkins, Let's talk. I need the exact setup that you've put together. Sounds like just the ticket for applying Gypsum, Aluminum Sulfate and Slime (leak stoppers). What type of pump did you buy and how much do you think you have invested? Are you using a siphon or pumping straight out of a container?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 08:00 PM
Glad to hear you got the pump working belkins456. After doing it the hard way the first time, you will sure appreciate the pump this go around : ) I don't think it will hurt the pump but I'm not an expert on that. You could always reduce the throttle a little if you're worried.

You will notice that the pump will draw the DB-100 out of the bucket allot slower than it did during your water test. The DB-100 is much thicker than water. I think it took about an hour for me to spray out 6 gallons of the DB-100. Make sure you got a full tank of gas and maybe some extra gas close by so you can keep it going. Remember to close the valve if the pump dies. It is a real pain if you get a pump full of DB-100. I always run my pump for 10 minutes or so after applying all the DB-100 to make sure it gets washed out. Good luck.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/18/09 10:09 PM
Jsec- I will try to get some pictures posted for you!

GeorgeS- I borrowed the pump so I have zero invested in that part of it. Overall I spent around 30 bucks to rig up the sprayer.It's really easy once you get a grasp of what you are trying to do. Look back at picture cheezy1963 posted and it will give you a good idea of how to tap the intake of pump. I did mine the same way he did except I tapped into plastic intake rather than metal so it was easier drilling. Then you just run a 3/8 hose with some type of in-line ball valve (so you can start/stop flow) back to your DB-100 and as the pump is pumping it will create a suction on that hose drawing your chemical into discharge water. I made the sprayer out of 2" PVC pipe and reduced it down to 3/4 to give it the spray nozzle effect. Works like a dream!

Cheezy1963- I dont think it will hurt the pump either but since it's not mine Im a little over protective. I have heard from Doug Biller as well that if you let pump stop while DB-100 is inside that it's really hard to prime back up. I will make it a point to NOT let that happen! If you let the DB-100 sit inside pump long enough it may seal it up tight and not let water leak back out of it ...he he I plan on running pump with valve closed for 10-15 minutes as a clean out. Thanks again for all your help!
Posted By: GeorgeS Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/19/09 03:07 AM
Thanks for the info. I think I know what I'm getting me for fathers' day now.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/19/09 05:09 AM
belkins456, I'm sure you already know this but I thought I would mention it. Keep an eye on the mixing to make sure it doesn't start clumping. Should hardly be able to tell that anything is mixing with the water when it comes out right. Mater fact, I find myself looking at the DB-100 bucket and asking myself "is anything coming out".
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/19/09 09:45 PM
GeorgeS-Sounds like a dang nice fathers day gift to me! I'd like to have a nice 2" trash pump myself. Maybe a Honda engine and none of this chinese knock off stuff! Good luck!

Cheezy-Yea I was thinking it would be hard to know if it was mixing right or now. An easy way to tell is to feel the water coming out or check the banks where you have sprayed. If they are slippery than snot then it is working. The way they explain it the slower and more diluted you make it the better it works so I've got nothing but time once again. I had a brainstorm though... since my pond has steep banks and it would be difficult to keep trash pump level and a pain to stop , clean out , move and reprime i'm going to set all this up in my jon boat and float around and attack the banks from the inside pond out. I figure it would be muuch easier that way and i could simply hang the suction over the boat into the water and i've already modified my discharge to make it only about 4 feet so I can easily sit in boat and spray all the banks over and over to make sure I get excellent coverage this time. I wanted to make sure and get this application rig as easy and efficient as possible because I already know i'll be spraying another 6 gallons of the "new and improved" formula as soon as it comes out whether it needs it or not. I'm just a sucker when it comes to that type of thing and since i'm having nothing but good results I actually trust these people. I'm starting to really believe in their product.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/20/09 12:30 AM
Hello to all monitoring the results of DB-100. It sounds like me and my father are in the same boat as the rest of you guys. Really anxious and wanting results. We have since contacted the pond doctors and have gotten prices for our 3/4 acre pond. I have a few questions that maybe you guys can help with. Does anyone know that if we were to apply the DB-100 now and go the rest of summer with no rain is that applicable or should we wait till later in the year to apply the sealer? We have also gotten prices on renting a 2" trash pump to apply the sealer. Is that what is typically used or should I look elsewhere? We also have rip rap around a 1/4 of the pond and structure in the bottom, should we remove and apply or coat it all? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Here is a picture of our current status the entire bottom is clay but was not compacted as good as should have been. So we are taking action now so that we will be hopefully full come spring of 2010. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Posted By: wivell Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/20/09 01:52 AM
Nice looking Pond Steve
Hope it holds water for you....

Scott
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/20/09 02:32 AM
Steve.m72- That is going to be a nice pond once full! Wow and I thought my banks were steep! How deep will that sucker be once full? It looks like 15 feet or so at least! It's hard to tell but how much is in the bottom right now? I'm just curious because if it's not over a couple of feet why not just pump it out and compact since you have good clay there? I can't speak for anyone else but I appear to be having good results thus far. If you have a hole or large leak in the pond i don't think it will help but slow seepage yes it should stop it. Any trash pump is fine anywhere from 1-3" doesnt really matter as long as your are mixing the water with the DB-100. The question about it losing it's sealing ability without water has been brought up and i'm not sure really? I'd call Doug Biler and ask him about that as well as the rip rap removal. I have fairly steep banks on my pond as well and was wanting to do rip rap all the way around it. Just curious how many loads of rip rap is in that picture? Just trying to get an idea of how many it would take to do all the way around my pond. Also did you lay underlayment and did you have problems with it wanting to slide down hill or does it hold the bank pretty well after it's put in place?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/20/09 04:54 AM
Ok belkins456, where are you at? I'm going to send a film crew over. Wouldn't want to miss seeing that rig in action : ) Sounds like a boat load of fun.

Steve, I can't really say when it comes to the different variables for applying the DB-100. My application was pretty straight forward since my pond was full. You would probably be better off talking to the guys at Pond Doctors. I will say for me atleast, the product is reasonably priced (compared to other products) and was worth trying. As far as applying the product, a trash pump seems like the way to go. I can't imagine applying it with a miracle grow feeder.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/20/09 12:22 PM
Oh it is going to be a blast for sure! I figured if i'm going to be spraying a product for an hour or two might as well make it fun. You may be wondering how I will get from one side of the pond to the other without a paddle. No worries...I'll be holding a water cannon in my hands blasting a 75 ft water stream out! I simply aim that down at the water and I now have a jet engine that speeds me across the pond while spraying DB-100 into water at same time :-) I'm going to see how fast I can get it going ..i'm shooting for 10-15 mph .haha
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 05:44 AM
So far I've seen a reduction in my seepage. However, I don't think it has totally sealed yet because there is still just a little bit of water in the ditch. First application of the DB-100 was on May 23rd and my last application was today (18 gallons total). I've seen a 7 inch drop in the water level since May 23rd so I can't totally rule out that the water pressure has something to do with the seepage reduction. But it has to be more than a coincidence that the toe of my dam started drying up after my first application of the DB-100. Also, my secchi disk readings went from 6 inches to 21 inches.

Before:



After:




I remembered to take a pic of my setup after I applied 6 more gallons of the DB-100 today.


Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 11:56 AM
Those before and after pics show beau coup improvement.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 02:23 PM
Cheezy-Those before and after pictures look pretty easy to read to me. It's definately working. I mean the after picture is worlds better! I'd like to see the entire pond if you have any pictures to post. Also call me stupid but how do you post pictures on here? I was going to add some but it appears you have to have them already posted on a weblink and publish them?? The pics you guys are adding appears to be cut and pasted right into the email body but when I try to paste one in it's not an option.

Thanks.
Posted By: esshup Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 02:39 PM
belkins456:

Here ya go!
How to post images
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 04:35 PM
Yes, the pics do show allot of improvement but I've seen similar results before. See this post: http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=11368&Number=125508#Post125508

After that post, my pond went the rest of the year without showing any signs of seepage. Unfortunately this spring, there was water standing at the toe of the dam again. So I'm still a little bit hesitant to say the seepage problem is solved. I'm really really really hoping that this time it is fixed.

I can say for sure that the DB-100 works real well at clarifying the water. Seechi disk reading this morning was 28 inches.

Here is a pic of my pond belkins456.



Hope you can figure out how to post pics. I can't wait to see your pond and 'boat load of fun' : )
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/21/09 11:19 PM
Belkin456, you are looking at 2 loads of stone that cost around a thousand. We have since put two more loads on the opposite end(where i was standing taking the picture) to help catch the runoff from the adjacent field.The bank was dug back some and the stone was laid. No underlayment was used and besides a few strays, the stone is staying in place. The bottom pool is around three feet,but is going fast, we presume well be dry here soon and ready to do some work on compacting.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/22/09 02:16 AM
Cheezy- After seeing that pic i'm too embarrassed to post my pics now! ha ha That is a gorgeous pond! I love the gazebo and deck around it, plus the arched bridgway out. Looks like you were blessed with a good flat area all the way around as well for some nice easy access. I wasn't so lucky since i live in KY where it's all "hills and hollars". The area in front of my house is more a a bowl (hole) that had about a foot of water standing in it and was an algae pit when we built our house so I was forced to take on a clean out project. I envisioned it surrounded in rip rap, finish mowed and nice foutain out in middle but instead i've had more of a muddy, seeping leaking, money pit that has just now started to hold water after almost 2 years. Hopefully thanks to the new product we have discovered I can send you some presentable pics in the near future. I don't think I will be able to top the island Gazebo though ... :-( P.S. I don't see why you are complaining about water clarity. I can practically see to the bottom in that pic!! Nice pic ..thanks for posting.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/22/09 04:31 AM
thank you very much. It has been allot of hard work. I've been holding off on doing too much more with it until I get the leak fixed for sure. Wish I would have known more about pond building before it was built. There was not enough runoff to support the size so allot of changes were made to help keep water in it.

I'm sure your vision will be reality soon enough and it will be a beauty. Can't wait to see the pics.

Looked like a mud puddle before I started applying the DB-100. It did a great job of clearing the water.
Posted By: Jed58 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/23/09 05:21 PM
Just talked with Doug and Pond Doctors and he is going to send me some DB to help on maybe sealing my pond. He is suggesting adding Bentonite to his material as it is applied.

My pond is about 120' x 120' and 9' deep at its deepest point when full and when full loses 3 vertical inches a day and that slows to 1/2 to 1" a day when not quite half way down.

Here is a photo of me helping mother nature top it off with my trash pump in early May.


Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 03:46 AM
Beautiful pond jed58. Hope the DB-100 solves your problem. Let us know if it works for you.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 04:55 AM
Really pretty pond! The setting is beautiful! Are you pumping that water from a nearby stream? My pond used to do the same thing. The more water it got in it the more hydrostatic pressure and the faster it would leak. DB-100 has greatly reduced that...hope you have the same results! Keep us posted.
Posted By: Jed58 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 12:59 PM
Thanks....In the upper right of the picture you can see my neighbors small pond with an island. It is fed by a seasonal stream and that is where I pump from.

Hoping the DB does the job. I plan on using no more than 24 gallons which costs right at $1,000, plus may use bentonite with it. The quoted price for ESS-13 was $6,100 plus shipping and I cannot go for that at this time.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 04:04 PM
The quoted price for my ~.75 acre pond using ESS-13 was over 12k. I spent $756 on DB-100 : )
Posted By: Jed58 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 04:10 PM
" Wish I would have known more about pond building before it was built."

Ditto to that but it has helped keep me challenged, moving, reading and thinking. Will be much smarter on the next one in Texas.

Then when tired on a summer evening like last night, I just set and watch the mamma mallard and babies glide around on it, the barn swallows dip and dive around it and into it and the other birds use the edge for drinking and bug catching.....The Killdeer have hatched their young for the year and moved on for this season.

God is good.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/24/09 05:12 PM
I was about to say Jed58, $6100 is a steal on ESS-13! My quote i'm thinking was closer to 12-14k range!! That stuff has small particles of Gold and Platinum dust in it that help seal off the bottom ..that has to be it! If you can get that pond sealed for only a thousand dollars I would be very happy! It's a great pond! I think we all wished we'd known more about pond building before hand but hey that's what makes life interesting...you learn as you go. I would definately recommend adding bentonite with it if you have the extra money. Any organic matter or material the DB-100 has to attach to...all the better for the sealing capabilites.
Posted By: MikeyBoy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/25/09 11:31 AM
Beautiful pond Jed. I like the irregular shape,
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/28/09 03:07 AM
I've spread 750lbs of lime small rock/dust, 500lbs bentonite, 80lbs salt, and 6gal DB-200. The DB was easiest to spread, used a small Scott's hand spreader. The water is pumping and pond was approaching 2' deep (excluding a 10'X16' 30" hole) when I left this eve. As the water rises and covers the DB-200 granules, they expand to a goohy white spoltch about the size of a marble. With a 6gal application over a .2acre surface, the DB-200 appears to be forming a (edit 6/30) thim film, similiar to snow or sleet; looking at a distance all is blanketed in white, yet close up some places are spotchy. Price for 6gal DB-200 and 6gal DB100 about $430. That's hundreds, not thousands.

A soil engineer came by to do a perk test for septic, he said my soil perked so well that the pond would have to have some help to seal. He got pretty tickled trying to wash off 2 drops of DB-100. That stuff can get funny. Be sure not to have any machinery down in your pond basin after applying the stuff, KY jelly ain't got nuttin' on DB.

My laptop died and I'm on vacation far from my home computer, so I don't know if I can provide pictures until mid-August when I return to Bako. Boy, I'm hopeful right now, we'll see.

6/30 update May be able to get pictures with my cell phone though its' camera is poor and today's foto washed out. Well only produces 6gpm and so pond is filling slowly. Today the water level reached 4 & 1/2 ft. We only got .67" rain this June, the average is 5" You can hear the soil fairly sucking up the moisture. If it doesn't rain I may not be able to top off the pond

7/4 Water level is 5ft and climbing! I spend 2 days in the camper by the pond and 1 day away. On my away day, no water pumped. Daily level only drops 1&1/2" whereas 2&1/4" in the past. This is in spite of the soil wicking up lots of aqua due to a lack of rain. Too early to judge though.
Sounds like the stuff works good, I'm really interested.
KY jelly ? is that made for ponds too.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/28/09 04:02 AM
I hope it works for you SoSauty. No doubt that the DB-100 has got to be one of the slickest substances. I managed to stay clean during my first application. I should have never commented about belkins456 getting some on him because I got allot on me the next application : )
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 06/28/09 02:52 PM
SoSauty I don't know if you saw my older posts but I actually lost my wedding band that stuff was so slick! And the more water you add trying to wash it off the slicker and slicker it gets! My ring just fell of my finger and I had no idea! I did luckily walk the banks until I found it the next day! I have to agree if KY Jelly could make something this slick their sales may double in no time! I'm very interested in the DB-200 as well. This fall i'm thinking of bringing a dozer back in and smoothing my banks out really good so I can keep them finsih mowed next year. I thought after i would compact some DB-200 into them and see how far that water level wants to rise up. I just wish the DB-100 was as easy to apply as the 200 If I had any complaints on the 100 product it is that it's a pain to apply. I wish they could just make it in a tablet form you just toss in and walk away! Wouldnt that be nice! Good luck with your pond and keep us posted! My pond by the way is getting better and better with time. It doesnt even appear to lose 1/4 inch a day now even in 95+ degree weather!! I can hardly wait for the fall/winter rains now this year!!
hi folks - i can't believe this - one I have joined a forum and two that it is about a subject like this. anyway here goes. I live in Tasmania - australia - and built a series of what we call dams and you seem to call ponds over the last summer, one holds well we think but two others look like they may seep. one is the unfortunate result of a spring we somehow dug up that emerged in wet weather. anyway I have been trying to work out what might make a difference and wanted to try the product that has been mentioned so often on this forum.. I tried sending an email that appeared on the pond doctors web site but it bounced back. can someone help me with advice on contact details - ringing the US is tricky since it means I have to be up around middnight to do so - email works best therefore.

cheers snd thanks to everyone who has given their commentary on the topic - it helps lots
Posted By: CJBS2003 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/04/09 01:49 AM
Welcome to the forum paradisetasmania! I've always wanted to visit Australia. Seems like a beautiful country with lots of interesting wilderness and some awesome animals...

I recommend you try posting your own personal post under the 'Help' sub forum or the 'Questions & Observations' sub forum. You should get more answers as more people will see it.

I believe you may be our first Australian member. I'm glad you found us! Don't be afraid to post pics and tell us more about your ponds or as you call them dams... What kind of fish you got, all that good stuff!

Add yourself to our Pond Boss Forum Map so we can see just where you on on the planet!
Posted By: esshup Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/04/09 11:02 AM
I'll second the welcome to for forum paradisetasmania! I have a feeling that when I get around to visit there won't be enough time to see everything that I want to. What types of fish do you have down there?
Cheers!
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/04/09 03:23 PM
 Originally Posted By: paradisetasmania
I live in Tasmania - australia - and built a series of what we call dams and you seem to call ponds...


Welcome Paradisetasmania. It's a good thing we call 'em ponds, other wise this site would be named Dam Boss and I believe that web address was taken just days after invention of the internet.
please update any success with either the db-100 or db-200. have pond in ga--leaked--we drained and packed bottom with 2 ft of clay--still leaks--apparently coming thru dam --- any way to solve this without putting a new core in the dam would be wonderful. have thrown away too many bucks on this 2 acre hole already. frustrated beyond belief as it sits directly behind my house. i plan on calling the tenn. pond doctors to see what they recommend---i do feel whatever i do should tie into the 2 ft clay bottom i already invested in. please post any successes with this method as well as others. thanks ga pond rookie.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/06/09 05:38 AM
paradisetasmania, your best bet is to call the pond doctors. I never had any luck emailing the addresses on the website. I'm sure that is costing them some business.
thanks all for your answers and for your advice - i guess I'll just have to look up world times and be prepared for the phone call!

as for beautiful - well there is a reason that a place near us is called paradise - it is. as for fish - Tasman is known for its trout and salmon - and its food in general - cheese to die for, berry fruit, apples, chocolate, wine - cool climate and more - we have ginseng, saffron, potatoes, carrots, cabbage and let's keep going. i love it. unfortunately we live on a hill with barely any flat land and can only dream of some of the "ponds" you folk seem to have.

cheers and thanks again
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/07/09 10:14 AM
paradisetasmania

Welcome to the site glad you found us.
You are going to love this place.
Pass the work around.
We are having a big get togather and we want you to come.

Otto
In certain areas, I've seen ponds built/excavated on sides of hills. One place I saw had several ponds built below each other.
hi---am looking for ways to stop a pond leak--have packed bottom with 2 ft. of good clay--in a couple of bad spots used the clay plus bentonite ---water now seems to be leaking thru dam-- need to tie repair into the clay already placed in bottom of pond. have questions on db100 and db200 products from those of you that have used them-- 1. are they safe for fish and human consumption of fish raised in ponds with them applied?
2. how long does the product stay "slick" and how long does it last after application?
3. can you avoid slickness by rototilling the db200 into the existing soil and tieing it into the existing clay bottom.
any info on these products and success with them would be most helpful.
i am most hesitant to apply products to my pond that i know nothing about the safety of. thanks
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/08/09 02:01 AM
Hey ga pond rookie; Doug of Pond Doctors says the stuff is safe, if you want, he'll eat a teaspoon of it for you. I don't know how long it'll stay slick, but my impression is it would slime up for years. I used a 2 gal sprayer to test 1/2oz of DB100. It took 4 gal of diesel for the sprayer to quit blowing snot. Rototilling may help some, yet clay can be slick by itself. A very mynute surface amount of DB-200 and you're back to slip'n'slide time.

You can see the DB and bentonite pellets along the shoreline. Water level approaching 5'.


My new pond well only yields 6gpm so the pond's rise is slowing and leveling off as the water approaches 6'. Still, that's a personal PB high for the 2 year old hole. The water has a rusty tint to it, clarity is 24". The Gams and bullfrogs are happy and looking healthy.
(Beyond the pond sits a tall white 6gal of DB-100 for a later 2nd teatment)

(There's a small bullfrog next to a few blades of grass sticking out of the water just right of center.)
I placed a 3oz can of cat food in an inch of water, the little Gams became pygmy pirahonas. Left a shiny can an hour later.

(6/8 update) belkings456; I'm cautiously optimistic. The pond would drop over 2" daily around 1' of depth. I could only fill to 4'9" last summer. This summer it's up to 5'8"; minimal rain both summers. I'm not pumping for a few days to check the drop. The pond is pretty sandy and leaky. I decided not to pack after spreading the DB/bentonite as it was mostly rock under 8" of sand and steep banks. It'll be miraculous if DB is a sucess for me. If it doesn't seal, I wouldn't completely write it off. Doug stated it works for moderate, less than daily 2", leaky ponds. Patience, this'll take weeks (August 1st) for preliminary impression, at least months (October 7th)to give a good trial.

I've gotta concur about
 Quote:
..ha ha Not to mention what happens when it's a sealing agent and I'd hate to have sealed bowels!!
Doesn't seem wise to down a teaspoon of sealant you just recommended to only mix a 1000 to 1
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/08/09 02:08 AM
 Originally Posted By: SoSauty
Doug of Pond Doctors says the stuff is safe, if you want, he'll eat a teaspoon of it for you. I don't know how long it'll stay slick ...

but Doug's Gastroenterologist should.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/08/09 03:54 AM
Sosauty- let me know how you think that DB-200 works. I want to redo the banks of my pond this fall and I'm wanting to spread it and compact it into them in hopes of raising water level. I'd like to take Doug at Pond doctors up on that swallowing a teaspoon of DB-100 quote. I believe that if a man was to do that his colon would be so lubed that he wouldn't be able to leave the restroom facilites for months!! That is if it didn't kill you! I wouldn't recommend washing it down with water if you do drink a teaspoon...cause we all know what water does when mixed with it ..ha ha Not to mention what happens when it's a sealing agent and I'd hate to have sealed bowels!!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/08/09 05:13 AM
ga pond rookie,

I requested a MSDS sheet from pond doctors but never got it. In the end, I wanted my leak fixed so bad that I went ahead with out it because they assured me that the DB-100 product was safe. You may want to request a MSDS sheet as I was told that they do have one.

I've ate fish from my pond since the application of the DB-100 and didn't have any problems. But, that doesn't mean that I might find myself constipated later on : )

Are you sure you are leaking water through the dam and not under? If you have access to a soil auger you could take some core samples and try to locate the seepage. May make a difference on how you attack the problem. Also, if you find water in the dam you can setup a monitoring well.
thanks for info on db100 &200. i was thinking of roto-tilling in the db200 prior to it getting too wet/slippery if that's possible. re: leaking under the dam--the two ft. of clay we lined the bottom of the pond with seemed to have helpd some but water still going out faster than coming in--pond has leveled out at about 1/2 full --at present no water going into pond other than rain at present---we were thinking of some way to tie the new pond bottom into the dam--i ran across this info on db100/200 and it sounded like a possibility --re: auger--i have post hole diggers but no auger--are you talking about going along back side of dam every 10ft or so and doing a test hole? doing so on front of dam would probably be too close to water in pond--in center of dam no auger would reach that far down so you must be talking backside of dam near ground level? thanks for info and replies
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/08/09 04:25 PM
ga pond rookie, I'm talking about a small soil auger:

http://store.jmcsoil.com/catalog/Augers-orderby0-p-1-c-293.html

With the handle extensions, you can get pretty deep and the hole is small. Every 10 foot or so on the downstream toe/backside of the dam should work. The idea is to determine if the water is moving from point A-D or maybe even C-D...I'm sure you get the idea. If the water is moving from A-D and you treat point C with DB-200 then you won't be doing much good.


thanks--may just rent a mini-trac hoe for 1/2 day to do some exploring or prep of monitoring holes--after that what product/procedure to use will be next issue i suppose. i'll check out the auger site though. appreciate it.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/12/09 04:25 AM
If you end up doing some trenching, check into a slurry trench/wall. It is something I was really looking into before I heard about the DB-100.

http://www.slurrywall.com/slurry-walls-technology/default.asp#WHAT-ARE-SLURRY-WALLS
I had never heard of a slurry wall. Still not sure I have a good handle on it.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/12/09 08:42 PM
I don't know much about it other than what I've read. The term "slurry trench" caught my attention when I was surfing for dam seepage solutions. Seemed like a possible solution to my problem at the time but I went with the DB-100 instead and haven't done any more research on it and never called to see what the costs were.

From what I understand the benefits would be a stable trench while excavating and the bentonite could be applied directly as a core. Some of the slurry would seep into the dam as the trench is being dug and form a barrier. Similar to grouting but on a larger scale.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/12/09 11:36 PM
The slurry wall or cut off trench is a very good way to slow the water that is seeping through a dam.

I have only read about the slurry. It is a mixture of water and bentonite that is pumped into a trench that has beed cut with a track-hoe. It needs to be about as thick as wet concrete.

This is the same idea as a cutoff trench that is backfilled with clay.

The trouble that I have had with cutoff trenches is the walls of the trench caving in before the material is in place.
Posted By: Minnesota Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/17/09 10:15 PM
DB-100 and for DB-200

Has there been any success with it or current thoughts? Any quess on how much to treat 1/2 acer?

THANKS!
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/18/09 03:20 AM
About 24 gallons an acre for DB-200; possibly 2x's the amount for DB-100 per treatment. Two treatments, applied a month or two apart, are better than 1. One problem that limits how much you can apply, is that DB-100 (liquid) can glob together and roll to the low point of your pond bottom. Doug recommends mixing it no richer than a 1000 to 1. With that in mind, seems you could rototill into or cover a DB-200 layer(dry) with some clay. Then you could get away with applying more.

(Edit 7/21) Doug recommended 6 gal of DB-200 for 1/4ac pond with my level of leakage and sandy soil. He also thought that DB-200 was 2x's more potent than DB-100.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/19/09 04:13 AM
I thought the db-100 was applied at approximately 4 gallons per acre depending on the leak severity.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/20/09 02:26 AM
I think everyone is getting different answers on the amount to be used. I was told 6 gallons would be more than enough on 3/4 acre?? I would say the more you apply the better the results as long as you don't put your fish in danger.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/20/09 08:10 AM
I bet you're right belkins456. The label says 4 gallons per acre but also includes the statement (varies with severity of leakage). Probably best to go with what the pond doctors recommends.
users of db100 and db200 any real success stories yet? i am pondering several approaches to trying to fix my leaking dam--dam is steep on pond side but i think i would do best by tying my fix into the 2' red clay we lined bottom with last year--now thinking of waiting till water falls or draining down below edge of red clay liner--then after it drys enough rototill db200 and bentonite(s.kitty/etc) mixture into the wall of the dam to tie it into the clay bottom--and continue that up wall of the dam to the level of the siphon. i really hate to think about recoring 1/2 the dam.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/21/09 01:59 AM
I may not be able to confirm a DB-100 success or failure until I get some much needed rain. Water level is about 1 ft low. Once the water level rises again, I will see if the pond still holds. Good thing is that I'm no longer seeing any seepage on the toe of the dam.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/09 12:18 AM
hello all, I am new to the forum and really glad to havve found this thread. We have a new property and it has about a 1 acre pond that filled this past winter in spring. once it essentially quit raining in mid june, we began to see it go down about 6 or more inches per week. it is down about 4 feet in just over a month. about 150 feet below then dam are wet spots with ponding water. our pond is definitely leaking. i am hoping to call the place and order db100 monday. i will speak to them and take their advice on how much and whether to do it now or wait. but i am open to input here. the portion of the bank that held the 4 feet we have lost is accessible and i wonder if you would apply the db100 to it as well as the water surface. i appreciate the info on using a trash pump. all input is a help. many thanks.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/09 04:18 AM
Welcome FarmerRick.

If you're treating the dirt/pond bank then I think you will need the DB-200. Check with the Pond Doctors...they can confirm. If you do end up using the DB-100 then a trash pump is the way to go. Good luck with it and keep us posted.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/09 02:08 PM
FarmerRick
Welcome abord. This is the best place on the computer.
Most of the questions about leaking ponds land here and we are always looking for people's experiance. Keep us posted.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/09 03:00 PM
FarmerRick- There is nothing more frustrating than watching your pond water run right back into the earth! 4 ft a month is a nice leak! I would probably use the DB-200 (which is much easier to apply and can be compacted)on any areas that are exposed and you can get to. Then spray several applications of DB-100 directly into the water and onto banks. The dam always seems to be the culprit of most leaks...kind of makes me glad I don't have one! My pond was leaking more than an inch a day before 2 applications and it has slowed down to less than 1 inch per week now so it's definately made a difference. One thing I can tell you is I strongy believe results will vary with the DB-100 product. The product is a polymer that depends on organic matter, grass clippings, basically anything floating that It can bond together and force to the pond bottom. My pond had a particulary large amount of organics suspended in it therefore I had optimum results. If you don't have anything for product to work with and had easy access to bentonite, pot ash, manure? whatever ...I would definately use that along with the polymer. One last thing it's sort of a pain to apply. You'll have to first buy a trash pump if you don't have one and then rig suction hose to become an eductor to draw DB-100 as it's spraying. It's also very slimy and a mess if you aren't VERY careful. Just wanted you to know all of that up front. Good luck and keep us posted!
otto-- i talked with doug of pond doctors--he says if can work dry----- the db-200 is best as it takes less (or is more effective)---"so sauty" says he got the same info from doug---db-200 is $244/gal and a gal is 42lbs--- it takes 150lbs per acre-- will have to research how much bentonite required-- they recommend compact it--on steep slope i can't figure how to do that without draining pond---i may try to rototill the clay and db200 into my existing soil--
in weedeating around pond there is wetness along 2/3 of the dam on the back and on the opposite side there are willow looking trees on a 30 yard area across from dam/siphon--i suppose i may be looking at a spring there that adds water when water table up and drains it when the water table drops if so i may have to put 2 or 3 ft of clay and compact that?? i'm scared that i may not be able to stop a spring like that as i'm at the bottom of a large hillside--i had to dig out my drive and put rip rap and drain pipe--so i could finish construction on my house due to an underground spring running under the road and turning it to mush. no way for concrete trucks, building supply trucks to get in unless i fixed road which i did (extra 2 grand for digging/gravel/rip rap/drain pipe)
--i'm sure learning as i go but no way to predict some stuff like this until it's too late. thanks for phone info--i'll keep pond boss and you updated on what i try and how successful it is.
otto--of all products i have looked at including kitty litter from walmart--the db100 and 200 are by far the cheapest--some places sell basically the same product for twice the price. i am almost spent out on pond right now--i will gamble another 2 to 3 grand but will stop after that and focus on other things. so i am hoping my research and choice of what remedy to pursue will be the right one. i lost my fist stocking of fish--i hate to think of losing this stocking too. thanks again.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/09 10:15 PM
I appreciate the welcome guys. Couple things i left out or misled. My pond is over 40 yrs old. It on a mountain, and there are exposed rock surface in the basin that are 4-5 feet across. my feeling is that it leaks at the rocks. Also my water is extremely clear (can see bottom from 4 feet deep). so do you think i should supplement the db100 with a material that will coagulate with it? again thanks for the help!
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/27/09 01:24 PM
jlodestro, please tell where you got the solar pump. And please tell what kind of pipe of hose you use with it?
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/29/09 11:40 PM
Would those of you who have used the pond doctors product, please update us on the progress of your leak-fixing? i am headed to see Doug and pick up DB-100 tomorrow. he has suggested 6 gallons for my 1 acre pond along with 1500 lbs of bentonite. my pond is very clear and the bentonite is for the polymer to coagulate with. he suggests that i spread the bentonite on the exposed (by receding water) bank and in the pond, and use db100 for both bank and in the water. i will also be looking at his pond aerator while there and if it looks good, i will purchase it. i have a lot of hope for this new found DB-100 to at least slow down our leak.
Posted By: Mykol Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/30/09 03:27 AM
I've been away for a little while. Weren't the guys at Pond Doctors about to release a new product that looked promising? Anybody know the status? Thanks
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/30/09 03:59 PM
FarmerRick

please keep us posted what your learn.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/30/09 05:50 PM
I went and met Doug at Pond Drs this morning. Nice guy. He said the new product is still in testing. I got the DB100 because i have fish and he said i could not let the DB200 get in the water or it would hurt my fish it it were used. I purchased his aerator also as it will help stir up the bentonite while working with the DB100. Plus it makes sense to aerate water that i am trying to grow fish in. I will be applying the 6 gallons of DB100 and 1500 lbs of bentonite to my pond and its banks this weekend. i hope i will at least slow my incessant leak and i hope it will rain enough for me to get a good feeling in the next month or 2. IF the wx is like last year, it will be next spring before i will really know.
otto and farmer rick--i am about to undergo a similar experiment--i have water/now wetness behind my dam--my pond is down 6ft from full in jan.--the spring feeding it (i run it thru a 6" pipe to shallow end of pond--so this spring doesn't factor in the pond leak) my water stopped flowing 1st week in july--have already packed 2 ft red clay in bottom----i have flagged rear of dam as to wet areas---i will dig 7 to 8 test holes on back side of dam to see if i can better find area of leak--that said --i will probably do 2/3 of the dam as follows--dig a shelf wide enough for mini-trac hoe (not sure what you call them--once shelf is dug and can run trac hoe along dam (on water side) we plan on digging app. 3 ft below pond bottom and making a new mini-core 1 1/2 to 2 ft wide with red clay from upper part of my property. i plan on mixing in db-200 along with the clay as it goes in the trench/hole--may try to spray it with garden hose and tamp it in as we go(not sure on that yet). as a finish touch i will try and mix some db-200 +kitty litter/bentonite with the soil between existing red clay liner and new "mini-core". hopefully i will not kill my fish as they have been well fed for awhile now. otto--will keep updating this as i go and as soon as can determine success or failure of this i will post that also. thanks
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/30/09 10:51 PM
ga pond rookie, u are sure very industrious. But out of curiosity, have you tried the DB100 in the water and on the banks?
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/31/09 03:05 AM
DB-200 August 1st initial report:

background; 1st week of July, at 3' pond would drop 2.25" day, applied 500lbs bentonite, 750lbs lime dust/gravel, 80lbs salt, & 6gal DB-200; no compaction done

July 25-29th; pond level at 6', day1 drop = 3" day2 = 2.75" day3 = 2.75" day4 = 2.5" 11" in 4 days

I'm unwilling to draw any conclusions as to DB-200's ability to form a pond seal other than it won't perform a fast miracle. My .2ac hole is generally sandy with the rock bed just 8" under a sandy (slight clay) layer. There are no signs of any moisture behind the dam or in the vicinity. The water visibility doubled from 24" to 48". There's been an explosion of gambusia minnows.
I attribute day1 leakage to 'wicking up water into dry soil.' Day2, 3, & 4 leakage was what I'd expect from added hydro pressure from the increased water level. Hope to apply 6gal DB-100 before returning to my present residental state CA (in just a few days). In conclusion, 4 ton bentonite may be called for, rather than 1/4 ton for my situation.

May return to AL pond and review in October. Due to a lack of time and $$ resources, I may just throw another 1,000lbs bentonite (or kitty litter) along with some DB-100, and pump more water into it this fall.

The neighbors 1/2ac pond, just 75yds over has the same soil/rock situation. After 5 years, theirs holds water OK, it's down 4' this summer (been very dry), so mine might seal to some acceptable level in the future. I believe having water in the pond is necessary, yet am realistic that that may not be sufficient.

(*My trip back to this AL pond has been postponed until Thanksgiving!)
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/31/09 01:12 PM
SoSauty- Sorry you aren't having much luck with DB-200 so far. Like i said I think results will greatly vary depending on soil type and organic load in pond. I'm just curious how are you missing all this rain?? You said this summer has been very dry? In Kentucky we've had over 8 inches of rain in JULY and only one day that broke 90 degrees. One of the best summers on record. it rained 2.5 inches here just last night! My pond came up almost a foot! Now i'm just hoping it stays! Hope that pond seals off for you soon. Thanks for update.
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/31/09 11:18 PM
Yep, uncanny, Huntsville 70 miles west, has gotten 7" rain this July. 7/30 Thurs. night, I'd refer to online doppler radar, then go out on the porch to watch the storms roll in. The rain would roll up along the Tennessee Valley and to the west. My pond is a dozen miles to the east of the TnV. June rainfall 1.67"; July thru the 30th 2.03". Day after day, I'd watch the creek slow and the pond level refuse to rise though 6gpm was pumping in. 7/31 today it did rain 'bout 1". The pond came up an inch in spite of no water being pumped and the water is cloudy 12" visability. This should give the DB-100 I plan to apply 8/3 something to adhere with. The creek went from gpm to cfs \:\)

(8/1 edit remark) Thanks Belkins for sharing your rain! I don't know how much it rained, yet my pond rose 4" today!!
3 little bull(frogs) can just be seen close to the bank
(8/4 drat, stupid stunt, killed water pump impeller, ran it dry; will have to add DB-100 in Oct)

(*My trip back to AL pond has been postponed until Thanksgiving!)
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/01/09 02:52 PM
Boys
Always ready to hear the feed back on seeping ponds.

As of yet I have not found the the quick, cheap solution, but still looking and all the feed back helps.

Thanks
farmer rick and otto--not overly industrious i just don't want to throw nickels at a quarter problem. also i built this pond as a view on the backside of my house and house is now complete but pond continues to be problematic and mud hole isn't an attractive back yard. so while i am looking for an inexpensive solution i also would love for the next "fix" i try to be successful. the lining of the pond bottom cured some of the problem but i think it exposed the problem of the dam core not being done well. will keep everyone posted on my attemted fix although like the rest of folks here i will probably need till jan/feb or perhaps even beyond to see if what i try works. i chose to try db200 as they told me was twice as effective as 100 and i plan on working dry. should this fail or not work real well i may spray some of the dam with the db100 but hopefully that will not be necessary. time will tell. i keep checking here to see success stories on the db200 and 100 but am seeing incomplete or minimal success posted.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/04/09 01:44 PM
It seems that Cheezy and Belkins were reporting the most success, and i am sure i speak for all in saying we hope they check in for a status report. I know this time of year can be "evaporative" and little rain doesn't help. I think several folks' leaks are the banks rather than the basin, so they need a fuller pond to tell if any attempted fixes have worked at all.

My situation - i got 1500 lb of bentonite and put the majority of it on the banks and some in the water, and sprayed 6 gallons of DB 100 on banks and in water this past Saturday, Aug 1st. We got a 30 minute 1/2 inch rain right at the end of the application, which was nice. we left Sunday and will not see it again until Saturday this week (it is a weekend hobby farm), and i will report what i find then. I have a lot of hope at this point.

FWIW i talked to an old timer Alabama guy last week who told me he had a friend in 1980 whose pond leaked and he drained it and lined the base with newspapers and it has not leaked a drop since.
the downside to using newspapers will probably be better educated and more difficult to catch fish. dont'cha know. \:\)
well, they already have schools so it might not matter too much in the long run
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/05/09 04:25 AM
Hey guys I promise to post an update as soon as I have one. I still stand by my previous statement that it has definately slowed the leak down but can't be sure it's totaly sealed it off. Due to the fact that we are in some kind of weird mid summer rain season it's hard to report right now. You can't really tell if your pond is leaking when it rains 1-2 inches of rain every few days. We had 8 inches of rain in July and are already starting August out with a nice 1-2 incher thats falling as I speak. Also a quick mention of Louisville KY which is just above me here...they got 6 inches of rain today in a little over an hour. The entire city is flooded! Evacuation chaos! So once weather patterns calm down and hot and dry comes back i'll update you on success.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/05/09 04:37 AM
I don't think I will be able to tell for sure if the DB-100 fixed my leak until fall. Won't know for sure until the water level raises about a foot and there is no rain in sight. One good thing is that I still don't see any water seepage at the toe of my dam.

I've seen several posts where some people are using bentonite in conjunction with the DB-100/DB-200. How will they know if the bentonite or the DB-100/DB-200 fixed the problem? I'm starting to get a little more skeptical about whether or not my pond will hold once the water level rises since using bentonite in conjunction with the DB-100 was not recommended to my by the pond doctors.
i live in "chalk" (kaolin) country---the chalk mines use a product that settles chalk/etc to the bottom (research flocculants? sp) --it too is really slick---not sure if it's the same as db100 or db200--sounds like it but that is really just a guess. still i'm not sure how well any of that will maintain over the years--- if you're looking for long lasting results-- i plan on trying some of the db200 but i also plan on most of my fix to be proven such as good clay. i would welcome any news of a good reasonably priced fix... look forward to some success stories!!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/06/09 08:31 AM
I can read this all day long BUT LIKE YOU GUYS I AM REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE WORDS IT WORKED

You guys be sure and make time to come to the conferance in September.
My db100 came yesterday, I'll be heading up to the cabin tomorrow to apply it, the pump is already set up there so I should have it done by afternoon.
When I come back next Tues. I'll report, hopefully good news.
I think I talked to Doug the other day about getting some DB100. I am going down to my property this weekend to check on the leak. He said that if the the hole where the water is coming out is as big around as your finger the DB100 won't help. I think my leak is spread out over a couple feet so hopefully it will work for me.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/08/09 09:56 PM
Status report 1 week later. Am here at my pond and it has dropped another 6" since applying DB100 last Saturday, so cannot say that it has worked yet. Guess it is too soon, and am still hoping!!!
DB100 report, I started pumping DB100 into the pond on friday afternoon. Doug from pond doctors suggested putting in half now by the Dam where I have the leak, and the other half in about a week.
The pump was a 1 1/2 HP 1 inch 2stroke pump and it was run at half throttle and the flow valve was only slightly open to keep a small amount of db100 mixing with the output.
It took 3 1/2 hours to pump 3 gal. cause I reasoned a slow mix would saturate the Dam area best. I also would alternately put the hose deep to stir up silt to combine with the product.
I feel it's too early to have a positive result yet, and it is too hard to tell anyway as starting Sat. night it rained hard, and also on Sun. & Mon., and the dam is wet from the precip.
I will be going back up to the pond in a week and pumping the rest of the DB100 into the pond, and in a few weeks I will report on the results.

Posted By: scruffy_fish Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/12/09 12:53 AM
Keep us updated!
Did it have any affect on the small pond dewellers?
When the fish feeder went off that evening it took about 2 minutes before any trout fed, probably because of the very low visibility with the db100 being about 6 inches.
Each day the visibility improved and so did the feeding. When we left today the vis. was up to 37 inches, and when I paddled around the pond I could see minnows and trout jumping for bugs, and no sign of any dead fish, also plenty of frogs around.
It didn't seem to bother the Heron as he was back every day. \:D
Posted By: CJBS2003 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/12/09 01:42 AM
Glad to hear the db100 didn't seem to affect the fish and other creatures... I sure help it helps you seal the leaks!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/12/09 10:13 AM
Thanks keep us posted.
Posted By: SoSauty Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/15/09 03:44 PM
Here's to add to GA Pond Expert's observations:

Floculant Info:
Floculation
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/15/09 10:15 PM
SoSauty, I don't think you're allowed to say floculation on this forum.

Dang, now I said floculation!

I did it again!

(monthy python flashback)
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/15/09 11:04 PM
"What...is your favorite color?"
"Yellow...no, blue...(as he is sucked into the abyss) AAIIIIIIGGGHHHHHH!"
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/16/09 03:54 AM
Pond boss needs to add a live chat area so online members could chat it up instead of waiting for pm mail. I see there are a ton of members online right now. Just an idea? By the way my pond is still holding steady and appears to only be losing water to evaporation. I can say DB-100 worked pretty well in my case but I still must disclaim results will vary! I used 12 gallons on 3/4 acre by the way.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/16/09 07:29 PM
I need to correct myself that i said we were loosing 6" per week. I took a level and straight edge to determine we have lost 28" in 10 weeks. We had 3 inches of rain in that time so we have been loosing just over 3" per week. We applied 6 gallons of DB100 and 1500 lb on bentonite on August 1. This past week i measured that we lost 3.25 inches. So i cannot say yet that the DB100 has helped. I did purchase 6 more gallons from Doug at Pond Drs and per Otto's advice will wait a bit longer to see what the first application does before applying it. Does anyone have any idea how long the DB100 remains effective at combining with other material and potentially stopping leaks?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/17/09 04:09 AM
FamerRick, seems like I remember Doug telling me that the DB-100 won't last long in direct sunlight unless it is already bound to some particles. You might want to ask Doug just to be sure.

I'm really hoping that the rains come soon so I can see if the DB-100 still stops the seepage after a draw down and then becomes saturated again.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/17/09 03:17 PM
Cheezy are you saying "saturated again" because you sprayed some db100 on the dry banks? i did. Are you still seeing loss of water level or have yours stopped seeping to the level it currently is? I am hoping this Claudette storm will get to my pond in Alabama.

Also were you the one using the 3 inch pump? if so, what distance did it squirt with it restricted to 1.5 inches? i think i am going to have to get a smaller hose to hook to my 3 inch hose just so i can handle it (the weight with all that water in it has to be a lot)
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/18/09 02:51 AM
I didn't spray any on the banks. I only applied it to the water and at the time of the application, my pond was full. I'm still seeing loss of water but I believe it is due to evaporation. I'm not seeing any more water seeping at the toe of the dam.

Yes, I used a 3 inch trash pump reduced down to 1.5 inches to apply the product. I'm thinking it would shoot a good 35 - 40 feet. I couldn't even imaging using a 3 inch discharge.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/21/09 11:31 AM
Thanks for the info.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/23/09 10:33 PM
Well - 1.5 inches of rain in a short time Friday night so I know there was runoff into my pond. the level Saturday was 1 inch below where it was 1 week ago. With the rain and runoff and I just don't know. The 2 wet spots down from the dam were still rather wet, but I was looking at them just a day after the big rain, so I am just reporting in to say I don't know and am holding off a little longer to apply the second 6 gallons of db100.

Does anyone have suggestions of something other than bentonite to put in the pond to bind with the db100, especially if it is cheap or free?
Went to the pond Sat. to pump more db100, this time cause my leak is at the dam I stretched a long weighted tarp across from the dam about 6ft. out. I was hoping to keep a more concentrated solution by the dam with the tarp barrier.
I pumped 2 1/2 gallons of DB and also added 50lbs. of oats to the mix to provide more material to hopefully help seal the leak.
This morning the leak had definitely slowed, so I'll see how it progresses in a week, I have 1 gallon of DB left.


Posted By: esshup Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/24/09 02:19 AM
Looks like you're making oatmeal.
Posted By: CJBS2003 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/24/09 07:53 AM
I see your floating island is still floating in the background...
The plants on the island are doing great, but with the cold wet summer not much flowering.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/24/09 02:41 PM
adirondack pond did you use oats because they expand in water ? did you buy at the farm feed store.

i assume you arranged the tarp where it was a "container" in the pond and then added the oats and db? then when all mixed you release the tarp in the vicinity of the leak?
FR, I did get the oats at a feed store, I decided on them cause they do expand well. When the oats are put in about half sink, the rest usually within a day.
In the photo the dam is on the left and the tarp is kept in to allow the concentrated mixture to flow thru the leak in the dam.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/25/09 02:08 AM
adirondack pond- Interesting approach. As long as it works I wouldnt care what I added! I've never heard of oatmeal so let me know how that works! Sounds much better than manure ..haha Another update on my pond. We haven't had any rain to speak of for a few weeks now and it is still holding really steady. It's dropped the usual couple inches due to some hot windy weather but I've noticed it's holding more steady than the pond right next to mine and it's been there for 50+ years an keeps a really constant water level so i'm going to go ahead and declare success on my pond for everyone out there waiting on a definite answer. My pond went from leaking 1.5 inches a day or more to less than 1 inch per week now. I'm going to disk up the banks this fall and add some DB-200/Bentonite Mix then compact with sheepsfoot roller to see if I can get the fall/winter rains to bring it on up to the 8-10ft mark. I'll keep everyone posted!
Posted By: omegaman66 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/25/09 06:48 AM
Congratulations on fixing the leak. Glad to hear of your success.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/25/09 04:07 PM
Wonderful idea about the oats AP!!! thanks. now i will try to figure a way to get them out from my dam to the deep spot, which is where i think it is leaking.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/25/09 04:09 PM
Grats on your success Belkins!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/26/09 09:00 AM
Lets add that to the list---- keep us posted
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/30/09 10:28 PM
Accounting for rain (not adjusting for runoff) we lost 2 5/8 inches this past week. i am sure there was evaporation, so it is really hard to tell if the first application of db100 and bentonite has helped, but there is less loss per week the past 2 weeks by about 1/4 to 1/2 inch than when we started on 8/1/09. i know hydrostatic pres sure is less on the leak shearly due toless water. i am still waiting to apply the 0second six gallons of db100 and may use oats (thx to adirondike pond) over the places i think are in the vicinity of the leaks. the wet spots are still about as wet, but each of the past 2 times visiting our pond on Saturday there had just been a rain on friday nite.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/02/09 09:09 AM
Thanks for the update
update on my anticipated pond repair--not having luck getting clay dug/moved on my property--attempted to purchase and have it delivered from a nearby source---not much success there yet either-- still plan on trying to dig a mini-core on face of dam and pack with good clay and mix in some db-200 then plan on mixing kitty litter+db200 and raking it into area between water level and new core--i see no way to compact it such as sheepsfoot due to steepness of dam (may try to use the small trac-hoe to compact if i have time left on it) --results of my "experiment" station--my insulated bucket has lost very little water (less than 1/4 inch over a month) compared to 8 or 9 inch loss from pond. that pond loss is very little compared to what i lost from feb thru july 1 (app 5 to 6 foot) even with a good inflow of water up until july. i suppose the good news is that if i ever stop the leaking i will have a full pond due to good water supply nov thru july 1-- the bad news is i may not be able to stop the leak without going broke. too much invested in this mudhole to stop now though.
Posted By: scruffy_fish Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/05/09 11:31 PM
I really like the newspaper lining of a pond to stop a leak in an earlier post.

I would think if you lined the bottom of a pond with dollar bills you might also seal a leak. The paper used in money is pretty tough and if you calculate the surface area of the pond and all the money you'd need, you may just be ahead of the game. \:\)
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/06/09 01:54 AM
That's a great idea scruffy fish! Buy why use dollar bills? I would think Ben Franklins would be the way to go. I mean it's hard to put a price on a nice body of water!
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/06/09 02:11 PM
I was a worried that it would come to this.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/07/09 01:38 PM
Our weekend visit to our pond revealed that we lost a net 2 inches this past week. The 2 places below the dam are still very wet. Each time it rains with any strength, i hope the db100 sprayed on the banks on 8/1/09 is reactivated, while going into the pond and doing its thing. The time has come to apply the second 6 gallons with some other organic matter. I am thinking of Adirondack Pond's idea of oats. are there any other ideas on this? The feedstore guy said old timers around there use barley. i am aware it is used for algae control but is it helpful with leak fixing. does it enlarge wet like oats? any ideas on that?
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/07/09 10:07 PM
FarmerRick
1 Thanks for the update!!!!

2 oats or barley? This is kind of new not sure what to say.

Old timers will feed there livestock in a pond to make it hold, but half of the process is to have the feet pack the bottom.

keep us posted.
Posted By: gallop Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/08/09 07:53 AM
Reading through this entire post has taught me two things

1. I need to get more sleep

2. I am going to have a liner installed in my new ponds

Keep up the good fight guys, very funny about lining the pond with money, I may do the same with the hull of my boat
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 01:26 PM
I added a second 6 gallons of db100 to my pond Saturday. This time i applied it all to the water rather than, as last time, part to the banks/part to water. This time i placed it over the areas that i feel are leaking with 250# oats. Also i have gotten a bloom of plankton in the past 3 weeks after having extremely clear water with considerable vegetation far from the surface. It is my hope that the lack of light from the bloom has killed or begun killing the vegetation, allowing for additional organic material to work with the db100.

Otto if this doesn't work, i want your input as to what to do next.

I would have posted a photo but cannot figure how. Can someone tell me how and I will.
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 01:50 PM
Here ya go FarmerRick:

Link to archived instructions on posting photos.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:09 PM
http://picasaweb.google.com/rawaits/091409?authkey=Gv1sRgCO_zpYba6YDgrgE#5381322009620614258

lets see if the photos can be viewed at the above link. As you can see, i was still at it into the sunset.

also forgot to mention, the pond is about 1/4 acre or more smaller than when the 1st application was done on aug 1 due to the leakage. on the positive side, that lets the db100 be more concentrated. note link may also be below. There are 2 photos.

Applying Db100
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:18 PM
Yep and then if you click on the photo and then click on "copy image address" you can insert the image address into a post lika this:


Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:19 PM
You can do this by either pasting the image address into the post window and adding [img] at the beginning and [/img] at the end see below:

'[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_mKDfkSOVHgQ/Sq5L3lMTVnI/AAAAAAAADJE/aqvgN5LWv9g/s640/IMG00070-20090912-1833.jpg[/img]

and this is what will appear:

size]
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:25 PM
Or click on the "Switch to Fully Reply Screen" the click on the third icon from the left that is above the text box and past the image address there (which is what I did for the first photo). And it's as easy as that!
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:26 PM
Give it a try, it's fun and profitable, well it's profitable if you have good black mail photos.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:32 PM
Thanks Jeff!
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 02:54 PM
You are quite welcome!
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 03:32 PM
 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Yep and then if you click on the photo and then click on "copy image address" you can insert the image address into a post lika this:


Very impressive, JHAP; not at all a "weak stream".
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/14/09 03:37 PM
It takes years of practice Theo, and liquids, plenty of liquids.
FarmerRick, Hope this works for you, you've gone to a lot of trouble to stop the leak.
If this doesn't work maybe JHAP will send you GSF to plug the leak!

Just kidding JHAP.
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/15/09 03:02 AM
The pond looks pretty green, Rick. Looks like you're definitely getting a bloom. Now if only we can get that pesky leak eliminated...
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/21/09 11:12 PM
Our pond lost 1 inch last week after accounting for rain. I am still cautiously optimistic that the 2 applications of 6 gallons each of db100 have helped. I hope with it being just a week since the the 2nd application, that the db100 is still finding leaks and fixing them. My deputy pond leak monitor and db100 applying helper (wife) says she "feels" its leaking less so there. Time will tell.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/22/09 04:11 AM
thanks for the update FarmerRick.

I may be able to find out for sure if the DB-100 seal will hold. My pond slowly dropped a foot after my application and now the fall rains are starting to fill it back up. If the rain keeps up, I may know real soon if it is going to leak or not. I'm still skeptical as well. Note to self: hiring a deputy pond leak monitor is a good idea.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/23/09 11:26 PM
Cheezy didn't you do 3 containers of 6 gallons each of Db100? and what size pond? what time in between applications? did you supplement them with any matter? I, as well and many here, will be extremely anxious to hear your reports as your pond fills up, and whether it holds. If it does, or is significantly improved, I will add at least one more 6 gallon ap to my pond.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/24/09 04:08 AM
Yes, applied three 6 gallon containers of db-100 in a approx .75 acre pond. I didn't supplement with anything and seeing posts from people who did supplement got me wondering.

(All of the product was applied to the water)

5/23/09 (4 gallons) water mark @ 42.625
5/26/09 (8 gallons) water mark @ 41.5
6/20/09 (6 gallons) water mark @ 35.25

Shortly after the last application there was no longer any water at the toe of the dam. However, I'm thinking the reduction in pressure had something to do with it. Will know for sure when the water mark exceeds 40 inches. Water mark is currently at 29.0625.
It's been 5 weeks since I put DB100 & 50lbs of oats in the pond, the leak on the dam has decreased about 70%.
I kept the tarp barrier up along the dam and pumped in the last 1 1/2 gallon of db100 yesterday, with all the leaves falling and the concentrated mixture I'm hoping this will seal the leak.
I'll report on the results in a couple weeks.


anxiously waithing
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/29/09 04:14 PM
WE lost one inch again last week after accounting for rain. It was a very humid rainy week, but we only got a small amount of rain compared to the surrounding areas. This week looks to be dry with low humidity and wind and will give a better indication of the d100 progress. My deputy monitor says the leak is fixed, but I say more time is needed. I wonder how long the db100 has an effect in the water? Thanks to all for their updates. It does appear that there is some success using db100.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 09/30/09 09:31 AM
I am waiting with Dave Hope it turns out good
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/05/09 01:10 PM
Latest: Pond lost 2" last week. No Rain and dew points were in the 40's and 50's with wind during the days. day temps were in mid 70's and mostly sunny. Pond is out is in a 10 acre pasture, so here is my question, How much evap can be expected under these condx? I keep meaning to place a container with water by the pond and measure it as well, but forget.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/05/09 05:39 PM
Farmer Rick

The bucket test is the best way to check for accurate evaporation.
Posted By: Ladia Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 04:03 PM
 Originally Posted By: FarmerRick
Latest: Pond lost 2" last week. No Rain and dew points were in the 40's and 50's with wind during the days. day temps were in mid 70's and mostly sunny. Pond is out is in a 10 acre pasture, so here is my question, How much evap can be expected under these condx? I keep meaning to place a container with water by the pond and measure it as well, but forget.

Put the bucket in the water so it has the same temperature and is exposed to the same air flow as the water surface.
Posted By: WahooBob Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 05:10 PM
About an inch a day when hot
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 06:25 PM
I've never seen a pond evaporate an inch a day. At that rate there wouldn't be many ponds.
Posted By: ewest Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 06:35 PM
Walt that is why so many of the Texas , OK , Cal. etc (arid area) ponds go dry or go way down. Too much evaporation and not enough rain. I am glad that is not a big problem for us. An inch a day or more is common for them.
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 06:52 PM
Good to know, for sure - I stand corrected. I should have said, in non-desert areas. Rick is not far from me and gets about the same amount of rainfall per year as I do, so an inch per day would not be accurate for him.

Glad I don't manage ponds in TX!
Posted By: WahooBob Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 11:15 PM
Ya I forget I'm not on a Texas site
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/07/09 11:47 PM
Although I wouldn't mind having the TX growing season...
Walt, on one 1 acre pond, I am down 7 ft. On another one, I'm only down 4 ft.

That's why the old adage of anything deeper than 10 ft. is wasted just doesn't count here.
Posted By: Walt Foreman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/08/09 03:14 AM
I've always been a fan of deeper ponds and I don't even live in a desert. The droughts I've lived through here, which still don't compare to what you guys see on a yearly basis, were enough for me.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/08/09 09:05 AM
Wahoo Bob
Where is New Braunfels if it is not in Texas.

An inch a day is a lot. On a hot dry windy day you can see it go
Posted By: WahooBob Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/08/09 10:41 AM
I live in New Braunfels TX but my pond is in la salle county way south of here we even have birds that are found no other place in the usa
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/09/09 12:33 AM
Just wanted to post another update that my pond is still holding steady and doesnt appear to be seeping one bit! I'm thinking of adding some more DB-100 this winter maybe during a freeze/thaw cycle and hope maybe that will help seal the banks up a little higher. I'm at 6-7 feet right now and i'm wanting to get it to at least 8 foot if not 10! I wish the best of luck to everyone else out there trying to seal their leaky earth basins up...i know it's a pain but in the end when you have a beautiful body of water it's all worth it!!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/25/09 05:44 AM
Wish my update was as good as belkins456. We've had some good rain and my pond level is just about 'back' at the same level where I applied the 18 gallons of the DB-100. Now I'm starting to see seepage again at the toe of the dam. I've been skeptical since the application of the DB-100 because the water level continued to drop but the seepage at the toe disappeared. I've also had fixmypond's post in the back of my mind the whole time. Seems like maybe there is something to what the one post wonder said about the DB-100 not holding the seal once the water level recedes and then returns. Or... maybe my seepage was not fixed by the DB-100 and the reduced head pressure from the lowering water level did the job. In any case, I'm going to keep watching it to see what happens next so I can come up with another plan.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/26/09 02:09 AM
Man i'm sorry to hear that cheezy! It makes me wonder if my pond was about to seal on it's own anyways and i have the DB-100 undue credit? I appear to be the only person who is having good luck with this stuff?? I do notice that my pond will seep significantly after it gets up above where it is currently sealed off. I was hoping to go back in a few weeks and put 5 gallons of DB-200 pellets out mixed with bentonite and work it into ground with rubber tire compaction from 4 wheel drive John Deere. I figure if I can't get the pond topped off this year then i'll probably never be able to considering we have a 10 inch surplus of rain for the year right now. I did notice on the Pond Doctors website they have the "new and improved" DB-110 out now which is 40 % stronger...I tell you if this stuff really is a hoax, we've made these guys a ton of money overnight with this website! I may start developing my own product DB-500 next week and give it a try on here! I'll sell it for the low low price of 30 bucks a gallon! haha
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/26/09 04:21 AM
Well, I'm going to continue to monitor it while I figure out a new plan. I don't think it is a hoax but I also don't think it is the magic juice either. Does work well as a clarifier though and I would probably have used it for that in the future if not for the price increase.

I noticed the change on the pond doctors website also. Prices went up and it is hard to tell what is a clarifier and what is a sealant although I think the product is suppose to work both ways. Also hard to see what is what as the DB-110 is referenced as the clarifier and the DB-100 the sealant. I didn't really see a new and improved...where did you read the 40% stronger?

haha...send me a sample of your DB-500 and I'll try it : )
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/27/09 02:20 AM
I'm sure the sudden burst of cash flow from Pond Boss helped speed along the website upgrade and credit card services they now offer. Before you had to mail a check in! I'm surprised they even talked me into that before as I'm waay too lazy for something like that! I called and talked with Doug a few days ago and that's when he explained the DB-110 formula as "new and improved". I believe he threw out the 40% better number but don't hold me to that. With the luck i've had with it i'm willing to throw another few hundred dollars at it this fall just to watch the water clear up again and hopefully raise water level another foot or two. I'll keep you posted. As for the DB-500 it may be a few weeks before I have it fully developed...basically i'm just pouring the DB-100 into my container, adding some food coloring to give you the illusion that you are getting a "new and improved formula" and relabeling it DB-500 so give me some time to create a label for it ..ha-ha!! We might as well have fun with this if nothing else! Keep in touch.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/27/09 04:25 AM
OK, I see where you got the info. I thought I over looked it on the website. I think I will give them a call and see what they suggest. If I hear anything about having to add bentonite I'm going to move on to the next product I've been looking at (aquablok).

You should be rolling in the bucks soon. May I suggest pink dye or neon white for the color? Could see it better on the seepage side.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/28/09 04:22 AM
Oh you don't have to add bentonite but I just figured why not?? I've looked at that aquablok stuff before I think ..you better get our your checkbook and be ready to add a few zeros!

It wont matter what color dye I use really because with this new revolutionary formula i'm putting together there will be no seepage to worry about!
Revolutionary formula huh? OK, we're waiting.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/28/09 01:31 PM
I am showing my age here but am of the crowd that used black pepper to seal a leaking radiator. Maybe if we seeping pond owners would grow pepper plants on our banks and then mow them with discharge into the pond, our ponds would stop leaking. ;\)
Sushi with a slight jalapeno flavor?
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/30/09 12:03 AM
Never heard of using black pepper but hey i'll try anything! We are having 2 inch rains one after another here and i'm tired of watching water come up to the new level then slowly go back down to where it's currently sealed off! I hate to let all this good rain seep back down into the earth but i'm not sure what to do?? I may go ahead and get another 6 gallons of the DB110-or200 and see If i can get it to fill on up. It will be nice to worry about something else other than seeping pond one day. I'd like to move on to stocking and actually fishing and enjoying the pond for a change!
Posted By: Rainman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/30/09 01:33 AM
Black pepper will indeed seal a leaking radiator temporarily. It gets drawn into and caught in the crack, then swells.
Posted By: esshup Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/30/09 04:26 AM
Sorta like using Oatmeal to quiet a noisy manual trans?
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/31/09 01:44 PM
While were on these random pond sealing ideas, seriously how about saw dust? I have a big lumber yard down the road and I could probably get as much of it as I want for free. How to haul it would be the question. I thought about covering the banks with it and then adding 6 gallons of the sticky DB-100 to bond it and seal it?? Just an idea...we had another 1.5 inch rain last night and my pond is way up but i'm sure will slowly seep back down to it's current sealed off level quickly. I currently also have about about 50% of the pond covered in leaves that fell during the wind yesterday that should help seal it too maybe?? I'm sure it wont help my organic load but we'll worry about that next year!
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/31/09 06:59 PM
I have no idea about saw dust but who knows....it may work. Surely there is an undiscovered substance out there that will do the job and very cheap.

belkins456, it sounds like our seepage problems are very similar. Pond fills then leaks back down. In my case, that it is about a 2ft vertical range from where it is almost full to where the seepage stops. I originally thought my problem was on the bank/dam face but now I'm not so sure. It could possibly be the preasure on inside toe of the dam which forces the water under the dam. Just more to think about.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/02/09 03:22 PM
My concern with saw dust would be it floating and then the db100 or 110 (whichever is available) would make a mess of it. Perhaps a test in a bucket to see if the sawdust would sink in time for the db to still be active with it. Is the db110 the stuff that is supposed to be 40% more effective? When i got db100 from Doug at Pond Drs, he said they were still testing it for not hurting fish. Can i assume it is safe with fish now?

My DB report - jury still out. it has rained so much it is hard to tell, but it still looks like my pond loses about an inch a week and i am still unable to tell if that is evap. we have not owned it long enough to have a reference on the loss. plus it was so dry last fall, there is no comparison to the level then versus now. My deputy pond level monitor (wife) still contends we have helped the seepage. i continue to say time will tell. thanks to all reporters of db product progress. Rick
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/02/09 03:26 PM
Age showing again but saw dust was what we put in whining differentials to not fix them but quiet them.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/02/09 09:59 PM
I think it may make a mess initially but gravity always has it's way with objects. In a week or so it would find it's way down to the bottom and hopefully plug up some leaks?? Farmer rick i'm like you...we have had soo much rain that it's difficult to monitor. I do notice a quick loss though once it gets above the current level. I'll keep fingers crossed and see what happens over the winter! I've heard of putting saw dust in transmissions to keep them from slipping! If it will fix a transmission surely It will fix a leaky pond? ha
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/11/09 10:54 PM
Belkins..I live in Edmonson county,not far from you. Was wondering if you would be willing to help me stop my leak. New pond, but leaking pretty good.No visible leak behind dam. Maybe we could shoot both ponds with DB110.
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/12/09 01:06 AM
Hey there BeespringKY. Wow you really are close by! Thats just right around the road! What kind of help are you needing exactly? How new is this pond?
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/12/09 01:43 AM
Pond built in july. About 1/4 acre. It will get to about third full and then drop to a quarter full pretty fast.Within a week.Hoping DB-110 may be the answer..Saw your posts on the trash pump setup and thought maybe we could work together and solve my problem, and saw were you wanted to add more to your pond. I would just like to have your previous experience as I want to have as much success as possible.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 12:03 AM
Well talked to Pond Doctors today, super people. Gonna start with db-110.They say its 25% more effective than db-100. Should be here wenesday....wish me luck!
Posted By: burgermeister Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 12:27 AM
Updates required. Keep us in the loop. I have one sandy side that needs attention.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 12:48 AM
Beespring, did they say it is safe for fish? Is the coverage rate the same as db100? I wonder how PD's assigns the quantity of 25% more effective? Good luck and please update us along the way.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 12:56 AM
They said db-110 is safe for fish, but the db-200 granular which is for dry areas only,and if it gets in water would possibly produce fish kill. Thats why I'm going with the liquid only. They said the 25% more tag goes to better sealing properties than before
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 04:28 AM
BeespringKY i'm very interested in this DB110 as well as i've been awaiting the release for some time. Since I don't have any fish in my pond yet i'm thinking of just going with the DB200 if it has better sealing capabilites. PM me a message and i'll give you my phone number if there is anything I can do for you.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 11:28 AM
They said db-200 would turn water a little creamy which is why it may be hard on fish..but it too is non-toxic
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/14/09 11:42 PM
DB-100 did the same thing to my water. I have bottom aerators running as well as a floating fountain and with all the agitation it made the top of my pond white and foamy for a few days. The water actually looked and kind of felt "thick" when you stirred it. I would imagine it probably does stress the fish out a bit when you put a large amount in the water at a time. But like I said I have no fish in my pond yet so I'm willing to try the DB200.
questions regarding updates on db100 and db200. my pond since the end of aug and heavy rains has filled and wet weather spring keeps it pretty full---the water going in right now has just enough going out of the siphon pipe to keep it from going over the runaround on the end of the dam--that's as good as it gets for me-- i will see what happens next summer when spring stops and water falls---if it falls 6ft or more then i will go back to my plan to try and recore part of the dam and apply db200/bentonite to area between new core and clay lined bottom.
rick/belkins/adirondak/anyone else using db products --update your success if you will --if you had it to start over would you still use those products?? --it seems not to be too good from my reading of this thread. otto--sorry i got rained on too hard to try my fix this year. thanks
My experience with DB-100 was that it did slow down the leak in my dam but did not stop it to my satisfaction, even though I used a tarp barrier to concentrate the product only along the dam.
It probably works best sealing a pond with seeps, but cannot seal larger leaks, that needs an excavator and more money.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/17/09 02:12 PM
And in my case i believe ,(though not as much as my deputy pond monitor,) that it slowed my leak down, but has not fixed it. We did 2 applications of 6 gallons on a 1 acre bow about 42 days apart. If this Fall had been like last Fall i would be more able to tell for sure, but we have had some big rains including Ida over our pond in NE Alabama.

I may commit some more money to the DB line, such as DB110, next summer if i still feel this year's efforts had had an effect. If i do, i am going to make a concerted effort to have a large amount organic material suspended in the water the day it is applied. I think i can get saw dust by the truck load and i may get several truck loads and dump it in a few days to a week before the application of the DB110. If any one else has tried the sawdust or other material, please post about it. Any other ideas for an affordable material are appreciated.

It sure is nice to see the pond with so much water after such a low level in August and July.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/18/09 12:32 AM
I'm going to apply my DB110 this weekend. Plan on taking bales of hay and straw, which I have on hand is the only reason, and mowing them up and then throwing the clippings in the pond. I just hope this stuff works.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/18/09 04:23 AM
In my case the DB-100 didn't fix my problem after 3 applications.
Sounds like another magic bullet may have bitten the dust. Darn!
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/19/09 01:04 AM
Adirondack.. on a post earlier you stated it stopped your leak 70%.I would be ecstatic with that.
Bee, my dam seeps, and leaks, the seeps stopped but the one area that has a larger leak didn't stop, that's why I think it can help only on seepage. Maybe the new product or adding certain organic material with it will yield better results.
I have gravity flow pipes supplying 95GPM, but they freeze up when it gets below zero, so this year I put a submersible pump below the dam to return leaking water to the pond. Since the hose is only 40ft. and heavily insulated I'm hoping this keeps the pond level ok for the winter.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/19/09 12:47 PM
Dave
It is always good to hear something that helpd with the leaking lake-- so far there has not been a magic fix--

Lets keep trying and posting. The info will only help.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/19/09 02:39 PM
So true Otto.

I still believe that it will help if the DB recipe includes something to bind to. It is so slimy and clingy. I can just imagine it causing a slimy clingy mass and that being sucked into the leak (if we are fortunate) and slowing or stopping the leak.

So to me the way to get that to have a better chance of happening is to have matter in with in suspnsion to bind with the DB.

I would like to talk to one of the Biller's as i am wondering if the concentration is correct at 6 gallon per acre. There has been no mention of the depth of that acre that I have seen.

Those of you who have applied it know it is not a piece of cake. Clearly it is the "hope syndrome" that has inspired us to get er done. If there is more hope that can be had legitimately, lets have it.
Posted By: ewest Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/19/09 03:03 PM
Check into drilling mud (was called aqua gel)used in drilling oil wells. Major ingredient is bentonite. It is designed to do 2 basic things. One to lubricate the hole as drilled and flush cuttings to the surface and second to seal the hole to prevent the escape of fluids into the surrounding formations. We have used it successfully before but your situation may be different. In our cases the mixed product move toward the leak and bonded to seal the pore spaces in the sand.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=127658&fpart=1

Here is the stuff from prior threads - its called sorting.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post125536



http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post78440

We need to get George and DIED in on this as they can explain permeability and porosity of soils and rocks.

Porosity is indirectly related to hydraulic conductivity; for two similar sandy aquifers, the one with a higher porosity will typically have a higher hydraulic conductivity (more open area for the flow of water), but there are many complications to this relationship. Clays, which typically have very low hydraulic conductivity also have very high porosities (due to the structured nature of clay minerals), which means clays can hold a large volume of water per volume of bulk material, but they do not release water very quickly.

Sorting and porosity

Effects of sorting on alluvial porosity
Well sorted (grains of approximately all one size) materials have higher porosity than similarly sized poorly sorted materials (where smaller particles fill the gaps between larger particles). The graphic illustrates how some smaller grains can effectively fill the pores (where all water flow takes place), drastically reducing porosity and hydraulic conductivity, while only being a small fraction of the total volume of the material.


In the earth sciences, permeability (commonly symbolized as κ, or k) is a measure of the ability of a material (typically, a rock or unconsolidated material) to transmit fluids. It is of great importance in determining the flow characteristics of hydrocarbons in oil and gas reservoirs, and of groundwater in aquifers.

The intrinsic permeability of any porous material is:

κI = C X d2

where

κI is the intrinsic permeability [L2]
C is a dimensionless constant that is related to the configuration of the flow-paths
d is the average, or effective pore diameter [L]


] Yes many rocks(not talking about gravel or broken or fractured ones but solid rock layers) can have fluids run through them under pressure. Also clay when dry absorbs water and expands until water will no longer be absorbed and it creates a seal subject to pressure. Porosity is the space between grains of soil or rock and fluid will flow through them limited by force needed to get the fluid through the pore space.

Now George or DIED can fix what I poorly explained.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************
DIED

thanks for calling out for the geo's ewest, but you did a fine job. an unintuitive physical property of clays is their high porosity and capacity to store water...well put....yet at the same time, their extremely low permeability limits the movement of that water....hydraulic conductivity (K) is basically the rate or speed at which water (or any fluid) can move through a particular media. Bill is correct in that all soils leak, its just a matter of how fast.

I apologize if I offend anyone with the following simple science, but it helps me to put things in terms that even my mosquito fish can understand. ewest hit all the important points about stuff moving through other stuff....in relation to permeability, porosity, conductivity, tortuosity (the flow paths), but for me all other things being equal, and envisioning leaky ponds i think primarily about how fast the water moves through whatever type of soil. So here are some example ranges of K (hydraulic conductivity) for different soil types just for comparisons sake......K is also given in metric units (i.e. cm/s or m/s) but my mind still thinks in inches and feet so I use gallons per day per square foot………..

Gravel : 10E4 to 10E6 gallons/day/ft2 (10E4 is scientific notation for 10 to the 4th power which is 10x10x10x10 = 10,000 - which means between 10,000 to over 1,000,000 gallons of water can pass through a square foot of gravel in one day!!)

Silty Sand to Clean Sand : 1 - 10E3 gal/day/ft2 (10E3 = 1000 gallons = gushing pond leakage)

Silts : 10E-2 to 1 gal/day/ft2 (which means 0.01 to 1 gallon of water can pass through a square foot of pure silt in one day, if multiplied by square footage of pond = very leaky pond…..you can see where we’re headed for clay….)

Clay : 10E-4 to10E-6 gal/day/ft2 (which means 0.0001 to 0.000001 gallons of water through the square foot of clay which equates to a leaky pond only on geologic time, this is a good tight pond seal).

this thread is a classic for leaky ponds containing many great insights, speculations, and statements above (theo, bill, brettski, eddie, ML...all yous guys), but IMHO to really help DonB we need to hear back from him about his construction techniques to help determine whether its just absorption into new pond lining or an actual seep. Hope the explanation on conductivity helps a few of you lurking get a feeling for why clay works so good.

My personal situation prior to renovation was hydraulic driven seepage through bedrock on pond side of dam, with water daylighting in creek below dam. In brief, this was mostly remedied by a lot of digging, cleaning, grooming and installing a well compacted mixed native and imported clay liner within deepest areas of pond subject to the greatest hydraulic pressure.
_________________________
********************************************************************
I think you have described sorting. Different types of dirt have different grain sizes. When they are mixed and wet they exhibit sorting. I should have taken time to post the pic with the first post.

Well sorted (grains of approximately all one size) materials have higher porosity than similarly sized poorly sorted materials (where smaller particles fill the gaps between larger particles). The graphic illustrates how some smaller grains can effectively fill the pores (where all water flow takes place), drastically reducing porosity and hydraulic conductivity, while only being a small fraction of the total volume of the material.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porosity


When dry clay is mixed with other dirt the aggregate has grains of different sizes. Water flows through the pore spaces between the grains not the dirt. When the mixture gets wet the grain size of the clay increases (swells as it absorbs water)reducing the pore space volume and the smaller other dirt grains sort to clog the remaining pore spaces to form a seal. Compaction helps because it binds the grains and reduces the pore spaces.

The water in a new/renovated pond may look like it is leaking for a while as its clay/soil mix absorbs water reducing pore space and goes through sorting and sealing. Once that process finishes it should be sealed and not lose water except through evaporation (unless there is a real leak ).
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/20/09 10:36 PM
Going to put DB110 on tomorrow..but forecast calls for little or no rain next week, so may be a while before I can attest to effectiveness.Got fingers and toes crossed!
Good luck Bee, hope it works for you.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/21/09 03:43 PM
Yes, Good luck Bee. Dont be like me and get the stuff on your hands and then need to hold something. I was afraid if i fell in, I would not be able to crawl pull myself out, as near the end of the application,i had it all over myself. Please report back with your results.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/21/09 09:03 PM
Well Just finished. Miracle Gro sprayer would not work! It wouldn't even attempt to come out. So I did like directions said and mixed 1oz to 5 gallon bucket of water. I poured this around the entire perimeter of pond. Probably around a hundred or so buckets...took 4 hours.I will not be able to get out of the bed in morning! So far fish are fine...hope they stay that way.Stuff is very slimy Farmer Rick, had trouble even holding garden hose.No rain in forecast any time soon, so will have to wait and see...Thanks for the well wishes!
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/21/09 11:28 PM
Beespringky- Why didn't the Miracle gro sprayer work? I sprayed 12 gallons and had no problems with mine. You just have to turn it upside down occasionally go keep the sprayer unclogged. I hope you didnt try to use the green fan spray tip that comes with it. That will clog! You have to make a custom spray nozzle on end of miracle grow feeder. Good luck with your leak. I'm about to break down and try some db-200 as one last attempt to get my pond full.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/22/09 12:32 AM
I took the front all the way off and it still wouldn't come out at all.If I turned it upside down the db would come out like silly string. Maybe the db110 is thicker?
Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/22/09 01:26 PM
Has anyone used the db100 or db110 with a siphon system? Wondering if after multiple applications if it would clog the trash guard? I hoping I don't need to go this route and my pond seals and fills up, but if I do I just trying to plan ahead.
Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/24/09 11:03 AM
Very long thread here and after reading the whole thing last night I am a bit confused and not able to really draw a conclusion. Is it possible that everyone that has tried the DB-100, DB-110, and DB-200 could summarize their applications and the results they got? Maybe start a new thread dedicated to the experiences with this product?
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/25/09 10:35 PM
Well since putting in DB110 saturday, pond has went down 2 inches.I hope its finds the seepage soon or my fish will die this winter.....I have went from 5 feet deep to about 3 1/2 since last heavy rain. Need Rain! Need DB110 to work!
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/27/09 04:06 PM
Beespringky- That's definately some quick seepage but with time hopefully it will get better! This is my ponds second season now and it is definately getting better with time. My pond is down about 7-8 inches from where it normally would be right now but if you look at rainfall totals it's been well over a month in our region since we've had a measurable amount of rain so I don't feel like that's too bad. There is no doubt now that the rain has stopped that my pond still seeps a little more than it should but it's getting closer to an acceptable level. I also have to factor in that i'm running a floating fountain in the middle now that shoots an 18 ft geiser up into the air. On windy days I can literally watch water fan out and scatter out into the sky of evaporation...that has to start adding up to gallons at some point?? Keep updating posts as it's good to hear from some locals since it's easier to compare apples to apples that way.
Posted By: Pondgoat Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/27/09 10:10 PM
Put DB 110 in my pond last week. 3 gallon on Saturday and 3 more on Sunday. Pond had been dropping about 1/2" to 3/4" a day. Since putting DB 110 in it has only dropped 1/4" in a week!!!!
Posted By: belkins456 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/27/09 11:38 PM
Pondgoat- That's a good report! Best i've heard yet! I used to live up in Erlanger KY so i'm very familiar with that area and soil up there. Can you give us some more information on your pond ie. how old is it? what else have you tried in past? any organic load added with it etc? I'm about to treat mine again with db-200 this time and add some saw dust with it just as an experiment. It's bound to start raining sometime soon and I don't want to watch it soak back into the earth!
Posted By: Pondgoat Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 11/29/09 05:13 PM
belkins456-Had pond cleaned out 3 summers ago and they found a small leak then. It filled over winter and still had a leak. They fixed that one and yet another show up, it just kept moving to next spot. They came back again and dug out a big rock ledge and it had a major leak. It was about the size of a fire hose. I thought it was finally fixed but over winter it filled again and it still leaked. This spring I had the whole dam re-cored with a track hoe and compacted when done this time by different person they found it still leaking from the rock. We figured it was fixed for sure this time but no. He came back to the spot the rock was and dug again, another leak was found getting into the rock ledge about a month ago. It filled up about 1 1/2' a few days after he came from heavy rains and it had slowed to about 1/2" to 3/4" a day from the 1 1/2" to 2" a day. Instead of more digging I found pond seal on the Internet and gave it a try. I put 3 gallons on banks on Saturday and Sunday put 3 gallons in the water on the side the rock ledge is on. Since then the water has only dropped 1/4". I was told when the water level reaches the top to apply it again to the water to seal any leaks that may be higher and from spraying the banks may not have gotten.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 12/02/09 01:42 PM
Pondgoat----Thanks for the info...How big is the pond?

When was it first built? How tall is the dam?
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 12/04/09 11:00 PM
Well my pond still leaking at same rate..gonna put more in this weekend as a last ditch effort..If this doesn't work I'm done til spring and I find a contractor to fix it right
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 12/08/09 12:47 PM
Don't give up hope. This weekend may get it fixed.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 12/20/09 06:00 PM
Well my opinion....DB-100..DB-110 does not work.Have applied 3 times and see no improvement at all.
Posted By: The Pond Frog Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/08/10 08:25 PM
Freakin read War and Peace faster than this thread. And what did I get out of it? The stuff does not work. I have to find some type of sealant. I'm not going bentonite, too many disaster stories. The old liner degraded, got brittle and just fell apart, so liner is out. Shotcrete/gunite too expensive, still can leak if not sealed. I don't like this unscientific approach, throw it in, hope it works. I can split my pond in two, which is the way to go as I always will have a drawdown pond just in case nothing works. But I want before and after measurements and a treated and nontreated pond. Side by side in the same shell. I would try the treat when dry method but I would not know what the heck I accomplished like that. I'm going to compact and measure loss, keep logs. Both ponds. Then I will either try treating one pond and save the other for control or drain both and apply empty. Just to one pond.

I don't care if product is much cheaper if it does not work. I'll pay for the ESS 13 if I have to. If I have side by side testing i should have close to exact seepage and evaporation. I'll also compact them exactly the same. I'll move water between the ponds if I have to. At least I will prove to myself what actually does anything instead of reading 14 pages and learning nothing.
I disagree froggy, you read 14 pages of insightful real world experiences by pond addicts who would just about sell their first born to get their pond sealed. ( of course if we sold our first born we could probably afford to fix it right).
It was a learning experience that we paid for.
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/08/10 09:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
Freakin read War and Peace faster than this thread. And what did I get out of it? The stuff does not work.


 Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
At least I will prove to myself what actually does anything instead of reading 14 pages and learning nothing.


You having a bad day or something PF?

The posts in this thread are from real people having real pond problems and trying to solve their pond problems. This isn't "nothing" to them. People are sharing their pond problems, the corrective action they've taken and the results of that corrective action.

THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS FORUM!!!

So what if it's 14 pages, so what if its 114 pages. No one is forcing you to read any thread here. If don't like a thread then don't read it. But don't belittle a thread and all of the people that have contributed to it by stating that you learned nothing from reading their experiences.

We're a community that strives to help people. Play nice or play somewhere else.

If I were a moderator your comments would be gone by now. Fortunately for you I'm not.
Posted By: The Pond Frog Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/08/10 10:43 PM
I deserved to be caned. Thank you sir may I have another. I am just frustrated as another person asked, can I have the cliff notes: works, does not work, sort of works. That's all. I might make 3 ponds, one a control pond, one DB 110 one ESS 13. Good stuff was rigs to apply it.

I don't want to buy a shrink wrapped box that is supposed to have a dvd player in it but has a big rock if someone else already has.

My most humble apologies for not appreciating the feedback.
Posted By: bob durham Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/09/10 11:17 PM
While pond frog kinda sounded like a big mouth frog I can relate to his frustration. I find my head spinning after reading this thread. My conclusion " and I've appealed to Otto in a different thread for his updated thoughts" is that nothing works except sometimes something works somewhat.
I'll try to put my experiences with db-100 into a short evaluation.
"It might work but it all depends". It did slow the leakage in my dam but did not stop it, which could be the result of the poor soil type we have and the amount of leakage.
The product might have merit in certain types of ponds with slow seepage, and also in higher doses than recommended.

This is only my opinion.
Posted By: BeeSpringKy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/12/10 01:02 AM
Hey guys...haven't been on in awhile.Pond Frog got a little antsy reading. lol. To clarify my previous posts, db100 did not work even a little for me. As Adirondack has stated, it might work for someone else and not me because of the makeup of my particular soil. Sucks for me, but alas if I had done more research, hired a more knowledgeable contractor, etc. I wouldn't even be aware of this website or the knowledge of the people within because I wouldn't have been trying to find answers on the web.So in short even though your pond has problems, here you find your not alone, have someone always willing to listen, and have access to considerable knowledge.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/12/10 03:29 PM
The comfort of having company in fellow PB members who have gone thru or, are going thru this attracted me. The thread was long when I found it last July! I read it like a crazyman. There is or was a "hope syndrome" thing going on.

I still check this tread. I agree with AP except that to know if DB helped, I will need to "experience" my pond in a summer dryspell.

A seeping or leaking pond is certainly better than no pond at all!

Happy unusual winter to all.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/12/10 03:54 PM
Good point a leaking pond is better that no pond at all.--There are a lot of us in this togather.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/16/10 05:37 AM
Well... I pretty much gave up on finding the magic leak stop. After talking to Bob, my approach for this year was to control the leaking water and route it where I wanted it by using a toe trench. I was on my 5th phone call setting up estimates when I ran across an old landscaper. After a brief discussion about the job he asked me why I was going to waste so much money on the toe trench when I could simply stop the leak. I then explained about all the 'magic' solutions I've tried and asked him how to stop the leak. He said the solution was hydrated lime and he had used it with success in more than 40 ponds. Most of which didn't have fish prior to the lime application and those that did...well it killed all the fish but fixed the leak.

Now I've learned from this site that hydrated lime will increase the PH and will kill fish. But couldn't it also have an effect on the charge of the soil? I've wondered if somehow that maybe the soil that I'm dealing with is charged and repels the small particles which keep it from sealing. If clay can become polarized in the water can't the same thing occur in the soil?

Would I just be wasting more money by trying the hydrated lime and closely monitoring my PH?
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/16/10 05:58 AM
 Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
I deserved to be caned. Thank you sir may I have another. I am just frustrated as another person asked, can I have the cliff notes: works, does not work, sort of works. That's all. I might make 3 ponds, one a control pond, one DB 110 one ESS 13. Good stuff was rigs to apply it.

I don't want to buy a shrink wrapped box that is supposed to have a dvd player in it but has a big rock if someone else already has.

My most humble apologies for not appreciating the feedback.



A caning is in order - you missed the allusion altogether....that thread was far more like reading The Brothers Karamazov.

sigh

Leak treatment product reviews would be an valuable resource on the website. I have a leak I'll need to attend to this Spring - I'll continue to read on. It's a long thread, but I like seeing how things evolve...I just hope someone can report a successful story soon.
Posted By: FarmerRick Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/16/10 02:38 PM
So Cheezy, please tell us more of the 40 ponds fixed with hydrated lime. Were there any big leakers or mostly seapers? What kind of soil in them? Terrain rocky? Etc.

Also is there a statistic of how may ponds he tried it in and it did not work?

Clearly if he was successful 100 percent of the time with hydrated lime, then it is worth it to move the fish during the fix, assuming that a short time afterward, conditions could efficiently and cost effectively be returned to properly sustain life for fish.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/16/10 05:03 PM
TELL ME MORE----
CALL ANYTIME DAY OR NIGHT---
IF THIS WORKS WE WILL ALL BE RICH---

800-882 DIRT(3478) OFFICE
940-736-5333 CELL
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/17/10 03:07 AM
From what I recall from my conversation with him, it only worked on seapers and I didn't ask about soil types. He did say that it was pretty much 100% successful. The application rate was pretty high at about 50lbs per 3ft x 3ft area and results were seen within a week. I asked him if he had heard of this site (he said no) and then I tried to explain that if this really did work, allot of people would be happy. I will call him tomorrow and see if he would join the forum or mind if I give out his contact information. Would be much better than me trying to play the middle man.

I'm really interested to see if using a lower application rate over time would have the same affect. Of course the PH would have to be closely monitored.
Posted By: otto Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/18/10 02:20 AM
Your can sure give give him any info on me or tell me how to get hold of him.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/18/10 02:39 AM
I will do that otto. I left him a message and haven't heard back yet.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/18/10 05:43 PM
I got permission to post the contact information:

AG LANDSCAPE
918-447-4566
Steve Niemeyer

I found some 50lb bags of powdered hydrated lime close to me for $6.93 a bag. For that price I think it is worth a try. When it warms up a little I'll give it a try and post my results. Of course I plan on starting out real slow and monitoring the PH real close because I don't want to kill any fish. However, if it does seal the leak while killing all the fish...I wouldn't be too disappointed.
Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/18/10 08:07 PM
So an application rate of ~5 lbs per square foot. So my 1/2 acre pond would require 10,000 pounds
Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/26/10 07:29 PM
ANy updates on the lime approach?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 02/27/10 05:24 AM
Sorry, I've been working on getting some estimates for the toe drain. For me, the most logical solution is the toe drain which should resolve my problem. I know it doesn't stop the seepage but atleast I will be able to divert the water where I want it and prevent the toe of the dam from eroding.

Now for the hydrated lime, I do plan on trying it but not until it gets warmer. I would guess around late March depending on the weather. I'm going to start off with a low amount to see how much impact it has on the PH. I don't intend on killing any fish : )
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/17/10 12:46 AM
I wanted to post an updated picture of my pond. The summer of 09 just about dried up what little water we had(pic above). We applied DB 200 to the entire bottom around Nov. Here is last week after the thaw and only 2 inches of rain this year so far.

Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/17/10 12:56 AM
How deep is the pond now? How did you apply the DB-200? How did you roll it?
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/18/10 01:06 AM
The north end is 6' and at the dock is 32". It was recommended to roll the DB200 but we only applied it to the bottom using a grass seed spreader. This is the first the entire bottom has been covered.
Posted By: lassig Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/18/10 01:20 AM
THanks for the response, thinking of using DB-200 when I redo the pond this summer.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/31/10 04:31 PM
Update on water level. Over one week we lost 3" of water. The most recent rains brought the level back up and an additional 2", still leaving the water level 36" to full pool (pic is above). This is the highest the pond has been so far. Any thoughts.
Posted By: Robinson Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 04/04/10 10:28 PM
Steve, on the surface it kind of sounds good, but I'm not sure if you've given enough detail for us to help with our "thoughts".

You lost 3" of water in one week, that sounds so so. Maybe it's just wicking. But then you mention it is at full pool. That sounds great. Keep us posted with your levels so we can maybe help.

Good luck.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 04/20/10 12:49 AM
A good rain will raise the pond around 5"-9". I presume the pond is wicking as well. We are holding right at half pool or 37" below full pool. Since we have added 6 gal of DB-100 and a few hundred pounds of kitty liter.


Steve i hope the DB100 does the trick for you, pond leakage can drive you crazy.

A few hundred pounds of kitty litter?, you must spend a fortune on cat food.
Posted By: esshup Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 04/20/10 02:25 AM
I'd like to know how he trained the catfish to use it.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 05/27/10 03:54 AM
Tried DB-100 last year and bentonite years before and my pond is still leaking this year. After talking to Bob and discussing the idea of a toe trench (french drain)....I decided that I would have one installed this year. So far it seems to be the best investment I've made to deal with my seepage. Pond still leaks but atleast the water goes where I want it. Only wish I would have done it sooner.

Here is a pic of the north side trench.



Here is a pic of the water being diverted (before gravel and pipe was added).



Here is a pic of a trophy and there were more which is most likely the cause for the seepage.



I may experiment with other magic 'stop leak' solutions later but for now I'm happy to mow without any problems.
Posted By: Ladia Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/10 02:17 AM
Here is my story.
My pond was built 2005. First year had only a puddle of water in it. The second year it had somewhat bigger puddle. It would go up about a foot after heavy rain and drop a foot in a day or two. I bought 14 tons of bentonite and hired a guy with bulldozer to apply it. He spread it with fertilizer spreader all over the pond surface (except the puddle), mixed it in with a disk and covered it with about 1 to 1.5 ft of clay. Then I bought 150 gal of ESS-13 and poured it into the pond in hope to stop the remaining leakage.
The pond held more water (about 3/4 full) but was still leaking 1 to 1.5 inch/day depending on water level. I also realized that the watershed of my pond was marginal about 6 to 1 as opposed recommended ratio for our area between 10 and 20 to 1. Therefore about three weeks ago I dug about 800ft of trench crossing the adjacent slope bringing in water from another 7 ac making the total watershed about 11 ac. Since then we got more than 6" of rain and the pond is first time, though still leaking, completely full.
The general area my place is located has excellent materials for pond building. All my neighbors have non-leaking ponds. In fact I had to spend extra money for special septic due to non-permeable soil. As the bad luck has it the ravine I used as base for the pond had at least 20 ft of sand several feet under the surface clay. While the contractor was building the dam they dug themselves trough the clay to the sand and caused all the trouble. The guy used several tons of bentonite to cover the sand and placed several ft of clay on the top but year later I found a hole covered only thin layer of clay in one side of the pond. The good thing was that I ended up with a pond about double the surface area than originally planned because to complete the dam they had to get material from the side of the ravine making the pond about 0.7 ac.
I will make few more attempts to find the leak but at this point it is mostly wait and see how it will behave and hope that it will get better with time.
If it will still leak unacceptably I will try traditional way used in fish farms at the area I grew up at. Cows or horse manure. It supposedly promotes growth of bacteria that looks like slime sealing the seepage. Perhaps even clean biomass such as grass or straw could work too. I am thinking about spreading it in the winter on frozen pond and let it sink at spring.




Description: Pond 2007
Attached picture IMG_0150.JPG

Description: Pond June 2010
Attached picture DSCN0930.jpg

Description: Ditch bringing more water to the pond.
Attached picture 6AD.jpg

Description: Pond July 2010 about 2" from overflow.
Attached picture DSCN1044[1].JPG
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/10 04:03 AM
Sorry to hear about your leak Ladia and I hope you find it. I'm curious about your ESS-13 application. I thought there was a guarantee with the product? Did you ask the manufacturer?
Posted By: Ladia Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/26/10 11:17 AM
I called them and they said that if it was a soil issue there is no way the pond would leak after the application. They suggested some structural problem. My suspicion is that the leak is around the hydrant pipe but it is impossible to check until spring when the water is clean to see what is there. I will report on the progress.
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/27/10 04:57 AM
Ladia, if you can find the source of the leak you can probably fix it. Good luck and keep us posted.
update on pond repair (attention OTTO)--to fill in readers-- originally built pond 3 yrs ago--leaked badly--two summers ago cleaned out two ft of bottom and packed red clay---last summer was going to try a trench and pack it with red clay (mini core if you will)--rain begain and my spring began to run so waited till this summer---changed plans and decided to dig out face of dam and tie in another 2 to 3ft of red clay to that already in bottom of pond and up app. 1/2 the face of the dam--waded pond to locate any "soft spots" found a couple--dropped pond then cleaned out soft spots and bottom 3rd of dam and put in red clay--packed as best we could using bucket of trac hoe-- in soft spots sandwiched in some kitty litter+DB200 between layers of red clay---i already had the kitty litter and db200 or would have simply used the red clay as my experiments show little improvement using those against the red clay alone-- that said you must have good availability of quality clay to try this. spent 6,500 on first cleanout of bottom and lining--added another 2,700 on this effort--total spent on pond now app. 40k for 1 3/4 acre so this will wind up my efforts for a long time to come---will keep this updated. my advice--before building a pond and dam read this site well--know what to look for in clay to core the dam correctly--don't believe everything your contractor tells you ---make them do it like you want it done for once they are gone they are usually gone and accept no blame.... p.s. first lining of pond bottom helped a lot so that lead to decision to continue along the same lines...
Posted By: jeffhasapond Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 08/21/10 03:17 PM
Originally Posted By: ga pond rookie
my advice--before building a pond and dam read this site well--know what to look for in clay to core the dam correctly--don't believe everything your contractor tells you ---make them do it like you want it done for once they are gone they are usually gone and accept no blame....


Very well said ga pond rookie. I quoted it to emphasize your words.

We've heard from more than one prospective pond owner that has hired a dirt mover to build a pond. It is quite an art to build a pond that will effectively hold water and to provide the other essential requirements to make the pond a productive fishing spot (shoreline slope, bottom contour, etc). Fortunately we have access to some of the best experts in the nation right here on Pond Boss.
thanks jeff --i really hope that comment helps some folks on this forum--Otto was helpful in discussing and offering his opinions in the past so i am hoping he sees these posts. Another thing i did this year is to put a 8" valve in my siphon pipe on the pond side of the dam (originally put it on back side but it forced my siphon pipe to leak on the back due to pressure)so i put it on the front top and have a 8" pipe with cap to allow me to get water tool down to it to open and close as needed. no need to open yet. smile that should allow me to fill the pond to the very top and use just the run around or in heavy rains open the valve some as well if i have to. my goal is to be able to go into next summer when my spring stops with a pond full of water. this pond was built mainly for aesthetics but also to occasionally fish. my original dirt mover came down and dug all around the site in 12 or so locations to see what kind of clay we had and assured me what we had was good. afterward he said "well we knew the site wasn't the best". grrr.
Posted By: alphonsoalva Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/06/10 05:25 AM
Part I of this article, we discussed easy to find the leak, which occupy very little time to explore, and we went through a large number of potential leak points. Time is money, as they say, and we want to be the most effective way to find the losses to our clients.
Posted By: Rainman Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 10/06/10 06:05 AM
Originally Posted By: ga pond rookie
thanks jeff --i really hope that comment helps some folks on this forum--Otto was helpful in discussing and offering his opinions in the past so i am hoping he sees these posts. Another thing i did this year is to put a 8" valve in my siphon pipe on the pond side of the dam (originally put it on back side but it forced my siphon pipe to leak on the back due to pressure)so i put it on the front top and have a 8" pipe with cap to allow me to get water tool down to it to open and close as needed. no need to open yet. smile that should allow me to fill the pond to the very top and use just the run around or in heavy rains open the valve some as well if i have to. my goal is to be able to go into next summer when my spring stops with a pond full of water. this pond was built mainly for aesthetics but also to occasionally fish. my original dirt mover came down and dug all around the site in 12 or so locations to see what kind of clay we had and assured me what we had was good. afterward he said "well we knew the site wasn't the best". grrr.



If your pipe was leaking on the backside, I would get those joints sealed or it may not siphon at all, just drain like a normal pipe. There is actually very little "PSI" pressure on the pipe, just the vertical weight of the water.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/09/11 05:56 PM
To those who have commented on their leaky ponds and techniques of repair. I ask, how are your ponds doing so far this year? My parents acre pond is the fullest its ever been only 20" from being full (pic above from last spring). We applied the rest of the DB-100 we had. We expect with the rainy months ahead we should make it to full pool. This is only the second spring the pond has seen with all runnoff directed to it so we are catching everything we can. The question is will it hold?
Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/10/11 05:06 AM
Been real dry here. I would say my pond is atleast 3ft down but holding like a bucket. I have no doubt that it will start leaking again once the spring rains come and it is at full pool again.
Steve I hope you have better luck with the DB-100, when I did my dam in 2009 it seemed to work for a while, but apparently my leaks were too large and the soil here is very poor.
Even though I concentrated the product by putting a barrier along the dam it only helped temporarily.

Ya know, all of us were hoping that stuff would work.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/11/11 12:12 AM
Cheezy, we've had 3" in the last week. Here is a pio of the runnoff from the back of our lot.


Posted By: cheezy1963 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/11/11 05:55 AM
Yep, I was one of those hoping for a magic solution but the db100 didn't work. I'm thinking that a person could get about the same results with alum since the primary function of the db100 is to bind with the suspended particles causing them to sink to the bottom. I recall noticing a reduction in my seepage after my first alum application but it was only temporary and I posted about it.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=11368&Number=125508#Post125508

That is nice Steve. I wish we could get a 3 inch rain. Send it over here.
Posted By: Steve.m72 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 04/26/11 01:13 AM
The Midwest has been hammered with rain. We got another 3"last week, we finally made full pool. Pond looks great, 7" below dock, if only it will hold?

Posted By: Jed58 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/24/11 09:10 AM
On 6/23/09 posted a photo of my pond, that was seeping on the sides. Before treating it I bought $500 worth of DB-100, both granular and liquid and tested it on my neighbors small pond that really seeps. Applied granular directly into the soil of the pond, refilled it with water pumped out of mine, mixing the liquid with the water and the DB-100 did nothing to stop seeping.

Did save a jar of it for future use in removing things such as a ring stuck on a finger. It is slippery stuff when it gets wet.
Posted By: jason7858 Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 07/27/11 06:49 PM
Has anyone looked at the effects of surfactants on soil permeability? After reading this entire post I started looking in to what ingredients these companies are using in their products. There is a lot of information on the web about soil stabilization that include types of oils and surfactants to reduce permeability and for erosion control. Just curious. Surfactant would be much cheaper than any of these products for sale.

Here is just two of the examples I've found. Not sure any of this would work at all for larger leaks but for seepage it might.My pond is about 4 ft from pool but still seeping. Still pumping and gaining a little at a time though. smile


The use of vegetable oil as an electron donor to enhance the reductive dechlorination of chlori-nated solvents as an in situ remediation technology is gaining significant traction. Vegetable oil is a cost-effective slow-release electron donor with greater hydrogen-release efficiency than other electron-donor products. However, neat vegetable oil can inhibit distribution in aquifers due to the oil droplets blocking the flow of groundwater through the smaller pore spaces in the aquifer materials.


Surfactants are used as soil amendments to help soil retain water. Soil surfactants move water quickly off the surface of the soil and enable water to penetrate the soil and move laterally and vertically into the root zone.
Posted By: b767heavy Re: Pond holding water...success notes - 03/22/14 12:25 AM
Just read this entire thread and wondering if anyone has any updates on there ponds holding water as a result of using DB 110.
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