I have been fly fishing for BG and RES this past week in the pond. I caught two BG (out of 50) that had sores on the side of their bodies. These sores were rosy red in color and looked like a layer or two of their skin was missing. Or it looked like their skin was thinner at the spot to where you could almost see tissue below the skin. And was about the size of a dime. I am thinking it might be bacterial and could be caused by the warm water temperatures or maybe some type of stress. I have looked here (forum) an can not find any thread that has been posted in the past but I am pretty sure I remember a post where someone else had experienced this. I have seen where stress can cause problems, but these fish are fed well, and pond has aeration and water looks to be in pretty good condition with 21" visibility in a fertilized pond. The water get pretty hot in the daytime but when swimming the other day there was still some cooler water near the bottom of the pond.
Any ideas??

Thanks

Tracy

Are you seeing any spawning activity?

If you're catching them in those numbers I'd assume they aren't terribly stressed. I'd think stressed fish wouldn't be readily caught.

sparkplg, I have never seen a BG bed do to steep banks and fertilized water but there are some designed spawning areas but not along the shoreline. There always seems to be new (1 to 3") CNBG at the feeder so I know spawning is going on. I am not sure these rosy red spots come from spawning but it's possible I guess since the fish with these spots are in the 5" range. And NEDOC, I agree I don't think they are stressed but these spots have shown up since the water has turned so hot and the air is now going. Does not make much since but when researching stress came into play a lot with somethings that happen to the fishes. I am thinking bacterial but Sparkie brought up something I had not thought of.

Thanks

Tracy

I'm gonna guess it's from spawning battle wounds.

It may not hurt to throw some salt in the pond, in light quantities.

Problems with cnbg is getting worse. In the last 3 days I have found 5 to 6 cnbg dead and floating every day and one small TFS. Sizes are 3 to 7" cnbg. One of the dead fish had a very dark area around the stomach area on the bottom of the fish. Today, I found a 3'er dying near the bubbles, so I raised one diffusers up off of bottom. (setting it on cinder blocks) hoping this might eliminate or reduce bad gasses along with reducing the colloidal clays (lightly cloudy water) I am seeing in a 10 to 15 foot circle around the diffusers, coming from from the bottom of the pond. I am doing one diffuser at a time so not to do to much to fast. The diffusers have been running for a couple of weeks now. Not sure what is going on. 5 diffusers are running 24/7 with surface water temps running 87 to 93 depending on what time of the day it's checked.
Sunil, thanks for the suggestion on the salt. Where should the chlorides be in a lmb,hsb,bg,res,TFS and Tp pond? I can check chlorides, I know how to do that. I have been running well water and the pond will raise about 1/4" per day in this 3.5 acre pond with water depths running 7 to 9 foot depending on where u check it. But I have been running water (as needed) on and off for the last two years with no issues. Ph is 7.2 constant, alk 110, hardness 40ppm Any ideas?

Thanks

Tracy

Tracy do you think it's an oxygen issue from the well water- I guess the diffusers tak care of that

hay there Pat, I ran water last summer with no issues. The water well is 7/10 of a mile away and water is pumped through a heavy 2" plastic pipe laying on the ground and so I am sure it is oxygenated by the time it reaches the pond. I also have it splatter before it hits the pond. But I am guessing there could still be an oxygen issue with all this heat and a fertilized pond. Vis was down to 17" today, it has been at 21"

Tracy

I got issues too.... Blue green algae...... Ugh
Another day in paradise

Tracy, you got any info on ambient and water temps?

Also, was you question about chlorides directed at me? If so, that's over my pay grade. I had thought of the salt as sometimes that helps with a fish's slime coat.

If you can check Dissolved Oxygen, that would help too.

Tracy, Stock Salt can be added pretty liberally into a pond. Sodium/Chloride salinity in fish blood is just under .9%, and that is also the optimal water concentration for the least kidney stress on fish, but plants may not like that concentration.

A .5-.8% concentration is really good, for the fish. It takes 6.4 pounds of stock/table salt (NON-Iodized!) in 100 gallons of water to reach a .8% concentration....that is a LOT of salt in most ponds!

Sunil, thanks for the suggestion but I was directing the chloride content to some of the experts, ha, I thought u were one, you have had a pond longer than me Rainman, I understand but then again I don't understand DUH!! I would have to consider that water saturation of salt is 10.2ppg or around 323,000 ppm so .9% salt might be around 3,000 ppm ?? Whoa, my chlorides are running @ 200ppm. So salt might help but the more I think about the cnbg losses I am thinking low DO and the other rosy red spots are something else, not sure what!! I think of my aeration like one might have in an aquarium but I am not having positive thoughts on aeration at this point because of more problems than I had last year without aeration. Sounds dumb But!

Tracy

I found another 5 or so floating cnbg and a 13" Lonestar legacy lmb. This is starting to suck ! I will see a few floaters around the diffuser areas, some look like they are struggling at the time I see them. I have also caught a glimpse of some really small TFS around the bubblies, looks like they are enjoying it. So I am not to sure what is really going on here. The cnbg are still feeding good at the feeders. This has me kinda stumped but I went ahead a cut off the well water yesterday, maybe it is not helping with possible low DO. and I moved another two diffusers up on top of cinder blocks at the bottom. I have two more to to do in the next couple of days. Hoping this might help to reduce the cloudy water around the diffuser bubblies. Thoughts?

Tracy

Sorry to hear about the problem Tracy. I'm not sure what you mean by "cloudy water." FWIW cloudy water in an aquarium is often indicative of a bacteria bloom.

The well water is usually going to be void of any dissolved oxygen, and the process you described, Tracy, of how you get the well water into the pond, didn't sound like that method would introduce oxygen into the well water, prior to entering the pond.

Tracy, can you get a couple boats in there with the engines tilted to sling a LOT of water around? Are you seeing any signs of fish piping, especially early morning? If so, get all the motors you can running asap!

Sorry to here it TGW1 it's no fun. The only thing I can offer is that the well water may or not have a good oxygen level. You can test it to know for sure. I have a artesian well at 15 gallons per minute which I piped to the bottom of the pond to keep it cool. I later learned (as usual) that that was the wrong way to do it. I now have the water run through a length of solid plastic drain tile with the top cut open to let air in every so many feet. The water moving creates a draw of air through the pipe which allows for the oxygen level to rise. Then the water enters the pond level with the surface causing the pond surface to keep moving. As the cooler water sinks it displaces the bottom water to the top. All these things together make a big difference it the pond . Good luck.

Tracy,

Do the dead fish have the red spots?

Bill, these dead fish do not have the red spots. And I am now thinking you guys are right about the well water being low in O2. I thought running the water above ground for great distance and then running it through a 30' corrugated pipe would oxygenate the water but after shutting down the well water I saw fewer dead fish yesterday. Last year I ran the well water during July and Aug and had no problem losing any fish, but this year, it may be the cause of dying fish, maybe the diffusers are mixing the two waters faster than in the past and that may be what is happening. I will continue to monitor and make adjustments where I can. Rainman, I just pulled my bass boat out of the pond, I had it there because I was working on the trailer, Looks like it needs to go back in the pond. Thanks for letting me bounce things around guys. A Woodster, u now have me thinking of aspirating the tubing near the pond. That might help to get air into the water. Is aspirating a word

Tracy

Tracy,

My well water is nearly void of dissolved O2. However, if it is sprayed through the air for as little as 24 inches before entering your pond, it will readily oxygenate to saturation. Make sure it is sprayed, like through a fire nozzle in a fan, so there is a lot of surface area for the water to contact the air before it lands in the pond.

A surface aerator is the best way to add O2 to a pond if O2 is needed.

If you would like to check your O2, PM me and we can talk.

Thanks Brian, I did not think of spraying the water when adding to the pond. I have a really nice irrigation sprinkler. it will be hooked up today. Thanks for the reminder, I knew of such things, IT's Hell getting old and senile and having CRS

Tracy

Tracy,
Let us know if it helps. I have found it helps almost right away when I have used a sprayer on the little ponds.

Check out this video. A lot like what woodster is saying. You could easily do this, and quickly. You can actually hear the air being sucked into the lines. This guy really seems to know his stuff. You could do a number of these down your line to add o2. If you look up venturi for aeration or aquaculture you'll find alot of info about it.

Hope it helps!!


DIY venturi for aeration

I use airlift to move water in our RAS, it is easy to do and takes less energy.

On a large scale water pumping system where you need to introduce O2, I would still suggest having the water enter the pond through a sprinklered end of the piping. A sprinkler introduces the water to the air after pumping which allows you to move more water and then allows more O2 to be introduced after leaving the nozzle. Its a win win.

PS. I like Rob's work. Been watching his videos for a while.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Brian I started up the sprinkler and its doing around 50 gpm and seems to be working pretty good. But I have a small problem with the run time. Sprinkler is set up with a Honda pump and will run for four hrs until it runs out of fuel. I will be looking on how to set up a larger fuel tank, a 24 hr run will be what I'm looking for. Also the oil burn in the Honda will be greater when run time is 24 hrs, I have to give some thought to that. Good thing is the Honda pump will shut down on its own if oil gets low. great feature on the Honda pump. And Peach, the venturi air system should be fairly easy to do and should work. I will try it soon near the end of the plastic pipe, the pipe is pretty expensive and is costly to repair so I don't want to loose or repair any of this pipe. Both of these suggestion should help when it comes to adding water. I am also considering reducing run time to night only on the diffusers, it's going to be really hot this week, in the 100's. I will report, I Hate losing these fish because of low DO

Tracy

Tracy, to save on costs do you have a way for the water to simply splash over some rocks or cinder blocks? The end of my 2" well-water line is about 4' from the waters edge and splashes over a cinder block spraying the water upwards and into the pond. I know you mentioned the water splashes before entering your pond, but maybe not enough?

In the beginning I made a "T" using a 4', 2" PVC with holes drilled in it, again spraying the well-water in the air before hitting the pond. Rigging up something like this would save on your pump and fuel and still get a good spray.

Then again, maybe I'm way off base on this.

This was my backwoods fountain but just having the "T" attached to your well water line with the holes spraying upwards would seem to give the water time to absorb O2?

Tracy do you feed your fish?

Are the red sores from O2 stress?

I do remember Bill speaking about adding medication to floating feed in a zip lock bag. Let the feed adsorb the medication and feed the feed by hand to the fish.

Just a thought.

Cheers Don.

Tracy, you may also want to stop feeding. Overfertilization could be an issue in such hot temps.

Tracy, any cheap boat fuel tank can easily be adapted to work with your Honda. A six gallon tank would probably get you close to the 24hr mark if you are using the engine mounted tank now. Most of those use a 1/4" fuel line anyways I believe. Make sure you get line rated for fuel. You might have to get a cheap pump for it, don't know how big your Honda is and if it has a pump...smaller ones won't.

Also most of engines like that are filled with straight grade 30wt oil. If you are going through it, get a gallon (smallest you can get I think) of mystic 15w50. It is a HD semi synthetic oil that would be better in this heat than the straight grade 30wt. Don't go cheap on the oil as hot as it is, and this is going to be a constant duty cycle so it will be hard on it. Might think about some type of shade if possible also. Watch the air filter also, dry can be dusty at times.


Just some thoughts.

I checked into Honda pumps at the dealership. They don't have a fuel pump and cannot be adapted to a boat tank unless you install some type of fuel pump. Simply doing a gravity feed will upset the needle and float, since the weight of the full tank of fuel will be more than usual, causing more pressure from gravity feed. Outboard motors that work with remote tanks have a simple fuel pump. The dealership said it would be very involved to install a remote tank from scratch, but there is an aftermarket kit for Honda pumps called a "hurricane" setup for extended run with the largest available remote tank. I have the same problem with my pump, when refilling my pond after a dry spell. The tank only runs about 85 minutes, and I have to refill it about five times in a typical pumping session, and it is a hassle.

Four hours run time would be a very good amount for me, only one refill.

I found a 2" semi trash pump by Northern Tool that has a Honda engine and a three gallon built in tank for a 10 hour run time. If I buy another pump it will probably be that one.

BTW, my current pump is a cheap Harbor Freight 2" that has over 170 hours on it now, and still runs like new. I change the oil after each approx. 20 hours run time, and it has never used a detectable amount. But, the small fuel tank is a curse in my case.

You should be able to use a separate, gravity fed tank with no problems, especially if it's less than 10 gallons or so.

You could also just buy a cheap impulse pump, around 20-25 bucks, and plumb it in.

You are probably right on that, but Honda told me that any gravity fed tank with a fuel level that is higher than the built in tank will cause excess pressure on the float needle. IMO that may or may not cause problems, depending on how well the needle seals. The cheap impulse pump method sounds better, then the tank could be located well away from the pump, and even safely refueled while the pump is running.

Yeah, the thing with dealerships is that same old nasty liability. They don't know if the guy asking the questions knows which end of the screwdriver to hold on to, or if he or she is mechanically competent. So, they take the easy way out....."won't work, can't be done" That lets them off the hook if you burn up your pump while trying to follow their advice.

Ever wonder why the additional gravity system will somehow force the needle off its seat, yet the increased pressure of a pump is alright?

The only possible problem I can see is that if the carb floods, and the motor stops, a gravity feed could drain the fuel tank, and a pump system probably would not do that. But, that could happen with a built in tank, but it wouldn't be over a half gallon of fuel on most pumps, vs 5 or 6 gallons with a remote. These possibilities are likely very remote.

Thanks for all the recommendations guys. Well, the last two days I have reduced the amount of well water going into the pond and have had little to no fish kills since doing that. I have started using the sprinkler and have been adding around 8,000 gallons per day or a 2 hr run time. I have not had the opportunity to run the pump for 4 hrs because of me not being able to be there for that time period and did not want the well water running without the sprinkler. And so I am leaning toward Sparkies recommendation on a separate fuel tank and will try a gravity system. So, well see Sparkplug I am one of the guys that have a hard time with tools And as peachgrower suggested I started a venturi air by drilling a 1/2" hole into the plastic rolled tubing and then I added a 4" steel pipe by driving it into a pre drilled hole. I did this about 12 feet from the end of the rolled tubing pipe. Please remember this is 1/4" thick 2" id plastic pipe. The 4" steel pipe has most definitely added air to the water, I can see the different look of the water at the end of the pipe and I can feel the venturi suction when putting my finger over the air intake. I am not sure if it adds enough air when pumping 50 gpm of water, but like I said u can see the difference.
Fish are actively feeding at the 3 TH feeders. the water clarity is @ 18" of fertilized water. And I have not seen the red sores on any of the dead fish, but did have one suspect out of 20 t0 25 dead fish. And one more thing is I have now lifted up the Kasco diffusers from the bottom of the pond. 3 by placing diffuser on a small plastic swimming pool (upside down) and 2 on cinder blocks. All of them are now 6" of so off bottom. I am attempting to reduce the clays that are being disturbed by the air bubbles. I did this because I did see a fish or two having problems near the bubbles.

Thanks again, will keep u posted on what is working with the water additions.

Tracy

Tracy,

You may also see about testing the well water for something other than low DO that is causing the stress. Even if you have tested it before, it can change.

Good luck on no more fish dying. At this point, I can only imagine the stress and heartbreak.

Cmm

Tracy,
I have been told by experts that your diffusers should be 18 inches off the bottom if you are trying to not pickup clay from the bottom. You can also use a pan to "sit" on to stop the clay from being picked up.

Any air being added to the well water is going to help a lot.

I think the gravity feed tank like spark plug said would be fine. I have a hard time seeing damage to float or needle with that setup ,even with six gallons. There really isnt anywhere for the float to go once the needle is seated. There wont be much if any additional psi. The small fuel line will restrict the psi from being a problem. Is it a greyhound? We have used a number of jonda copies with great success. Had trouble with one. Harbor freight replaced no ques asked. Glad to haear things are looking better!

Pardon my DA guys but in consideration of a supplemental or separate fuel tank for the Honda pump, and when using a boat fuel tank the fuel comes from the top of the tank and not the bottom of the fuel tank, and the fuel line has a bulb pump to get fuel to the outboard motor. Will this same setup work on the Honda? This system can furnish fuel to the engine even when the fuel tank is lower than the engine. I told u guys I was a DA when it comes to things like this And if this does not work then I am wondering how the fuel would travel uphill or from the top of the fuel tank to the Honda. I know the setup of the boating system but I am thinking I would have to drill a hole in the bottom of the tank and add a petcock and gravity it to the Honda, is that the correct way to set this up? Help I don't have to do this but I hate the pond dropping every day in the summer and we all know a pond likes new water additions when a pond has a lot of fishes.
Thanks for the help guys
Tracy

Tracy,

To demo this to yourself, get a see through milk jug, fill it with water, use some air line to act like the fuel line, and start a syphon while the milk jug is above the simulated engine level. Water will flow to the simulated engine until you brake the syphon. Now try the same experiment with the milk jug below the simulated engine's height, the water will flow back into the milk jug and fail to feed the engine. Further, the bulb is there to "force" the fuel to the engine on a boat, then its fuel pump does the rest of the work pulling the fuel thereafter.

Does this help?

What he said. The bulb is to prime the fuel system. I think the siphon will work, but I have not ever done it myself. I see where it might seem as though it would not pull it from the top. As said earlier you might have to get a small fuel pump.

Got an idea, this is a bottom feeding portable fuel tank. It is 15 gallons. That would run for a LONG time. It is steel. You could adapt from the 3/4" to 1/4" or whatever is on your engine with brass fittings. With the bottom feeding tank, you can put it on a table of some kind, use gravity feed, have it a safe distance away for filling, and not worry about a fuel pump. It is kind of pricey but, after the purchase of it, a few brass fittings and fuel line you would be done. I bet 15 gal could run for 24 or more hours easy.

fuel tank

Just another thought.

Brian, you and peach confirmed my thinking. So my next little project is to buy a fuel tank and adapt it to gravity flow using a petcock added to the bottom of the tank for a gravity feed line to the Honda. I am pretty sure I can get this done even with my lack of tooling skills. Peach, that is a nice tank but I am sure I can build a 10gal set up or at least a 6 gal for way less than the one pictured, but that is a nice tank. And another day has gone by with no floaters @ the pond. Great feeling for sure. Water well with low DO and aeration moving bottom pond water with low DO and mixing the two does not work to well for the fishies.

Tracy

Tracy, search for the thread "No spill gas cans"....I posted a photo there that shows a quick, easy, and inexpensive way to obtain a bottom drain in a plastic tank.

Thanks you Sparky, will do. I was out and around yesterday looking for a way to get it done, but I was thinking I needed something I could get my hand in so I might be able to back up the petcock. 5 gal bucket maybe if I can find the right one.

Tracy

Tracy,

Any updates? Getting any rain?

Brian, thanks for the support I have not had a chance to build the fuel tank, but still in my plans. I have been running the Big Sprinkler a couple of 2 or 3 hrs per day in this heat we have had. It helps but does not replace the evaporation of 1/2" of so per day. And yep been getting a little rain but nothing big and I have had no more fish floating. And that is a Great feeling I lost around 25 to 30 large BG and one 13" Lone Star Legacy LMB going through the learning curve of diffusers with water well additions. You mentioned that moving the diffusers up to maybe 18" off bottom might solve the clay disturbance caused by the diffusers, but, because of the summertime lower water levels, if I move the diffusers up off bottom 18", that would put some of the diffusers in 4' of water depths and I understand 8' is desired so I have been thinking "Pan" but I am not sure what design or material to use for a Pan. u got any ideas on a Pan? Thanks

Tracy

PS, how is that Nice lake of yours doing? U been using the excavator lately? This rain in August has stopped my plans on a second pond because it is real muddy where I want it. Afraid I would plant the rental excavator

Water heater pan?

Tracy,

Sorry for the long delay, been busy.

Our big pond is still letting water out. It is amazing to see. A water heater pan wold be a good plan. It has the surface area needed to "show" the diffuser a clean bottom. It should work well.

The excavator has been busy this summer. It has been working on several projects. I am hoping to get the new brood ponds built soon but I have had several setbacks this summer. As the list gets cleared, the brood ponds will get new attention.

The best thing I have seen is the water temps. We are down for the 89.8 degree water we saw at the end of July. The fish seem a lot happier. I can't wait to see the growth rates this year.