At the risk of sounding like a total city slicker, I'd like to post this question for advice. This year we bought a pretty piece of property. 14 acres at the end of a dirt road. Quiet, secluded, and teaming with wildlife. I've been thinking I need to buy a rifle. Mostly for protecting the family and my property and maybe doing some hunting. In the last few weeks I've noticed signs of hogs on the property. I haven't fired a weapon since my time in the military 20 some years ago, I figure its like riding a bike. What would be a good rifle to start with, Just for piece of mind and maybe bringing down a hog or buck?

Welcome to 3 guys sitting on bar stools, you've asked your question, now you'll get 5 different answers from 3 guys.

I would recommend investing in a 12 gauge pump shotgun, a Remy 870. I would also recommend investing in either a bolt action rifle chambered in .308, such as a Remy 700 SPS, or an AR chambered in .308 such as FnH's SCAR 17H.

Before putting anything downrange definitely walk the perimeter of your property to learn what lies beyond your property line.

Also, don't discount a .22LR rifle, such as a Ruger Takedown in .22LR, for varmints and plinking.

Ah, the silverware debate. Fork, spoon, or an attempt to capture perfection in one utensil, the spork. I'll be curious to hear other's thoughts.

What's the terrain like? Heavy brush, wide open space etc.

Here's a fairly recent thread on the subject written by a whole bunch of guys on barstools!

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=404500

300 win mag is hands down one of the most powerful and versatile rounds ever. you can get a light load for long range shooting or a heavy load for up close/thicket hunting. 180 grain bullet will pretty much do either.
i also agree with basslover on the 22, everyone needs a 22lr.

The property is heavily wooded. Cow pastures and trees surround the property. I've thought about a shotgun. The best choice for taking down a charging hog?

Based on the terrain and the nearby cow pastures, FWIW I would go shot gun as well. If you have a lot of woods and hogs around, carrying a sidearm might not be a bad idea when you are out moving around the property.

Welcome aboard....what part of east Texas are you and where did you move from?

You might consider the AR10(.308) or the AR15 in 6.8.

I mostly have AR15's in 5.56 Nato and have killed a number of pigs with them though I am looking for an AR10.

For a smaller, brushy property.......357 or 44 mag is hard to beat. Lever or bolt action rifles for both are available, and use the same ammo in a handgun if you are so disposed. 41 mag is another great cartridge, and Marlin did chamber a LA for it, but they're hard to come by now.

L, I'm sure you've noticed that choosing just one weapon to be a perfect fit for all situations is a tough call. You mentioned protection, and a family...I would advise tempering your decision with the knowledge that someone other than yourself might need to pick that weapon up in that regard, someday. A horrible thought, one we hope never materializes, but it's there none the less. How comfortable will other members of the family be with a heavy caliber?

+1 My wife asked me to teach her to shoot in case someone breaks in and I'm not home. I taught her to shoot the 410 from the hip. If the intruder is in the house, the range is not great. A gut shot from a 410 loaded with 4 shot will make anybody wet his tidy whities at 20 feet and my little wife can handle it well.

You ever breach that FOID card issue?

Yes Sir! And my pic on the FOID card makes me look 10 years younger...maybe that's cause they used my driver's license pic from 10 years ago even though I had to provide a recent photo with the application!

Better have a Pro teach you how to take out an intruder. You would be surprised at how many people cower after firing one shot, then go investigate and get killed by the intruder.

Unload, throw another clip in, unload again, then drag their body outside for the cops to deal with.

Around here, the body better be inside unless you want to get sued by the intruder's family and possibly arrested as you were not in "imminent danger!"

Analogy of taking out the trash.

I forgot that you live in a dis-armed state.

I second the .41magnum for a very practical sidearm.

Best gun I have found for hogs is a 30-30. If longer distance shots are required, then a .308.

As for self defense...most cases are very close range...Ruger SR9.

Sean

Nice, BL. I like my .44 for an occasional "out in the woods" type of thing, but never found a reason to carry.

I let my guy's carry at work if they had the proper permits. Seemed to ease their minds, and never bothered me.

Only problem was, a short term emp. heard about this policy. Got pulled over in his Durango with a loaded .45 in his glove box. He had a permit, but not one that it could be loaded while in a vehicle. Cost me $100.00 to clear it up to get him off the hook, and never saw him again.

If I could have only one gun to fit your criteria (small property, hunt hogs,deer, protection etc) it would be the tried and true, old school lever action 30-30 with open sights.

I can't imagine one gun that covers everything.

Coupla thoughts:

For home protection I would go with a shotgun. I keep a sawed off 12 gauge next to my bed. It's an alley cleaner and nobody likes looking at a shotgun. If I were awakened from a sound sleep and grabbed a pistol, I would probably either shoot my wife or blow my foot off.

For hogs on 14 acres, I would buy a 30/30. If you shoot at them a couple of times they will probably avoid your property.

Agree about a 22 rifle. They are cheap to shoot and lots of fun. I have 4 or 5 of them.

I recently bought a Taurus Judge for the time that cops aren't the only target. I carry it in my pickup. I alternate the cylinders with defense bullets and three ought buck. The buckshot is because I'm a lousy shot with any kind of side arm.

The best gun for protection (and most other things) is the one you are very comfortable using. Whatever you buy, make sure you practice with it and stay safe. Think about ammo cost and do not price yourself out of practicing. My father always told me not to point any gun (real or toy) at anything that you do not want to kill. I think this is a good thought.

Since you are looking and since there are so many choices to chose from, I will give you one that has not been suggested until now. You mentioned heavy woods and pigs. I have a Marlin 45/70 lever action Guide Riffle that will do massive damage. And since there are cattle bordering your place this riffle has short range when compared to something like the 300 Winn Mag. You will save on ammo cost because after making just a few shots you will say "That's enough" Remember it's a guides riffle and will take down grizzlies and such

Tracy

L's Pond, you've gotten lots of great advice, but going by your original post, I'd probably start with something like a Ruger 10-22. They're reliable, light, don't kick, and cheap to practice with. You said we, so I'm assuming a significant other, or kids/grandkids also come into play. If so, this is a great "starter rifle", and a great way to teach them gun safety, and respect for any firearm.

As far as a more long term solution? I like the AR platform. Sprkplug's reference to a spork, is actually pretty accurate for an AR, but I like to think of them more as a swiss army knife. As Tbar mentioned, they're available in many calibers and configurations, and prices seemed to have dropped quite a bit in the last year or so.

Which ever way you decide to go, I wood start with a firearm that's enjoyable to shoot, and safest for the the group.

Hope this helps.

Another vote for getting a Ruger 10-22. They are nice versatile guns, relatively cheap to shoot, low recoil, and will be good training/plinking/varmint gun for under 100 yds.

The AR platform is the equivalent of a 10-22 in a centerfire rifle. You can buy many different uppers for it, change them yourself and have a number of different rifles while only really buying "one" rifle.

As for self defense, I strongly recommend taking classes from a well known school. AND having your significant other do the same with you. The legalities change from state to state, and there are specific things that one really should do to not only protect your family from bodily harm, but to protect your family from financial harm if you get sued or taken to court. A friend of mine goes to a school in Alabama at least twice a year, and there are schools in Texas. If you want a recommendation, I can ask him - he's very well versed in home defense.

The school that he goes to has specific classes ranging from generic first time people to weapon and situation specific classes. i.e. vehicle vs. home, handgun vs. rifle vs. shotgun.

Whatever route you decide to take with a gun, when shooting please wear good hearing protection. If using foam ear plugs, make sure you know the proper technique to use when putting them in your ear. You don't just jam them in.

Words of advice from a guy with hearing loss due to shooting while using hearing protection....

Heavy brush, now why don't M33 fragmentation grenades get their just due in these situations? If you hear a rustle, don't put yourself at risk figuring out who/what's making it, just roll one in and duck and cover. Just my $.02

TJ, if you want something that will work in heavy brush, try a .458 Win Mag shooting 500 grain solids. I have one if you want to try it when you're here, but I take no responsibility for bodily harm. The recoil calculator that I have says the following:
.223 Rem 3.2 foot pounds of energy, 5.1 fps recoil velocity
.30-30 10.6 fpe, 9.5 fps
.30-06 20.1 fpe, 12.1 fps
.300 Win Mag 26.2 fpe, 14.5 fps
.458 Win Mag 64.2 fpe, 21.4 fps

.458 is a great round. I have really grown fond of the .35 Whelen over the last 5 years. I can shoot 300 yards with little correction and it blazes through brush. It also has the same energy at 100 yards as 30/06 does at point blank. I typically go with just the 200 grain Hornady SP in my 16" barreled Mini-G's.

L,

22LR's are great guns for practice,turtle management, snakes, and other critters, but if you are going to have only one gun, think 22mag in lever action. I love the caliber. I have taken several larger critters with one.

If you are going to "defend" your family and home, look at the NRA and FBI one shot, one stop statistics.

Also, the two things a bad person does not want to hear is "sick'em" and the sound of a 12 gauge pump shotgun being chambered.

Having more than one gives you options.

Like most have said, find one YOU like and practice, practice, practice.

TJ, TEC,TEC,TEC u r so bad

Tracy

If I rolled onto your property with a case of M33's, you all know we'd be looking for the nearest beaver dam or one of those TX ant mounds to clear - especially after a few brewskis. C'mon...admit it!

After enough Brewskies we would be discussing building a forage pond. Think of the cost savings! No equipment rental and no charge for hauling and grading the removed dirt! I'm thinking the right size charge, placed just right...ah heck..hold my beer and watch this!

Got a BIG stump here..., in the sticks

Seen this .17 HMR by savage with the Remington rotary clip semi auto today. Nice nice little gat. You can get these in a 20 grain. If not the 22LR this would be the varmint gun of choice for me. 22 is great when you want to keep the fur but the 17 there is no keeping the pelt.

http://www.savagearms.com/launch/a17

Stock with trigger job. Nice scope great combo.

Thanks for all the great advice. I like the idea of starting out with the 22LR, not looking to go hunting this season, so I'll revisit that need down the road. My kids (3 boys) are all under 10, so I can envision them taking to hunting as they get older. Sounds like The 22LR, would be a great choice for them to start learning about guns.

I also plan on cutting trails through our woods for hiking and four wheeling so I like the idea of a side arm while out walking the property. Maybe the best thing would be to go to a gun range and try a few out?

After hearing what age your boys are, and in keeping with my spork analogy from an earlier post, I'm going to toss out my suggestion. What about locating a .22/.410 (or 20 gauge in a year or two) over under? Easy to shoot, great on small game, and practical experience with both a rifle and a shotgun.

I bought a Henry lever action knowing that my grandsons would be shooting it.

My wife likes an automatic (edited correction for clarity: semi-automatic)but I explained my reasoning to her and after thought she agreed.

With an (edit" semi)automatic, once a round is fired there is another live round in the chamber and the safety is off. No way of me knowing if they had clicked the safety back on except verbal inquiry and even then what if they became confused which way was safe?

With a lever action, once a round is fired there is a dead round in the chamber. Only manually jacking the lever puts a fresh round in. It takes action to put another live round in the chamber. Also I can look over, and if the hammer is back, I know the gun is cocked and ready to fire. I can visually see this from several feet away. I could rarely see if a safety was in the on or off position.

One round at a time is enough for a youngster. My grandsons are teenagers. For someone younger I might even consider a single shot (which I have and they shot when younger).

Those are just my thoughts on why I chose a lever action 22LR for my grandsons to use (as well as myself - I like the gun). My reasoning only. Your mileage may vary.

I fully agree with snrub above. Even a bolt action or break barrel over under 22/410 or 22/20g. My most favorite gun growing up was a break barrel 20gauge. You learn to shoot skeet with 20 then competition with 12 its easy.

Cheers Don.

Getting to a range where you can try different firearms is a great plan. If you've friends who have firearms they are willing to take you along and allow you to try them that also is a great idea.

With respect to the children, do some research and thinking before you hand the firearm over. Aside from the obvious safety rules for firearms consider what you may want for them down the road and then set your plan(s) in motion now. Such as cycling only one round at a time, at least for the initial outings, so there is only that one round loaded in the chamber and if someone drops the firearm or handles it in an unsafe manner (purposeful or accidental) there is no other round that could cause undesired consequences.

You may also want to instruct them from the outset to count their rounds as they push them downrange, to pick up their spent casings, to keep both eyes open and use both for sighting and visual awareness, and maybe even first aid training that covers what to do if there is an accident involving a firearm.

On the fun side of the flip coin, you can set up a shooting gallery for your boys to plink - cans, toys, stuffed animals, etc.

One other thought would be a BB gun. Our boys have been using BB guns for plinking for years before they used the 22 under my supervision. Learning with open sites and two eyes open first makes it much easier. Our youngest prided him self on learning the two eye thing and he is the best shot.

The middle boy is semi pro paintballer and can shoot with both hands incredibly well. Though I do not recommend this.... it is just happen stance that he learned this from nine years of age on for paintball. Its most important to be able to roll bunkers.

Gun safety is like leaning to wear your seat belt. Teach them safety over and over that it becomes the normal way to handle them.

Cheers Don.

An automatic gun, be it a rifle or a pistol is only legal to own if a few criteria are met. First one is that it cannot be manufactured after May 10, 1986.

Here is the other criteria if the date of mfg. is before that.

Pay a tax of $200. Fill out a lengthy application to register your gun with the federal government. Submit photographs. Submit passport photos. Get your chief law enforcement official to sign your application. Wait for the results of your background check to come back.

I missed the "automatic" in the post. I just thought Snrub meant a semi-auto which will also leave that next round ready to go in the chamber.

I think he may be talking semi auto.

Here in Canada a restricted fire arm is any hand gun, any gun that holds more then five rounds of center fire. Any gun with a barrel length shorter than 18"s.

You can get a restricted fire arms license but if police have intentions to speak with you, and they run that you have restricted fire arms, they do not need to knock on your door to come into your house. They can just walk into your house at any time with probable cause. This is only with restricted fire arms.

Now you can have 50 round .22 rim fire semi auto as long as the barrel is longer than 18"s with out being restricted.

The key factors is barrel length, and number of center fire rounds you have.

Cheers Don.

Correct. My bad.

Probably not a good idea for him to go out and buy his kids a Tommy Gun either though.

L - Congratulations on getting your land.

I apologize beforehand for throwing a little rain on your parade. If you are somewhat of a city slicker (like me), then being in the center of 14 acres in the heavy woods can make you and your kids feel like the only people on the planet.

The statement above is true - until you start firing a rifle! A .22LR round can easily leave your property. If your 14 acres are a square, then it is only 781 feet minimum to your nearest property line from the center. A .22 round (fired up at 30 degrees) can travel over a mile. If your kids are shooting at a chest-high target on a tree, it cannot go that far, but it can certainly go off your property. Trees do not make a reliable back-stop for wayward rifle shots.

I have a 300 acre property and we shoot rifles into a 20' high hill. I am still worried about skips when some of the guys shoot high-powered rounds. I am going to build a steep back-stop next time I have heavy equipment on the farm.

L - Now that I have the obligatory warning out of the way, I have one more recommendation to add to the pile. The Rossi matched pairs are a pretty awesome starting package for youth shooters. You take off one barrel and can switch to the other weapon in under two minutes. Rossi Combination Guns

We got the .22LR - 20 gauge combination for our son when he was eight. It consists of a single-shot 22, which is perfect for teaching new shooters. We got the 20 gauge barrel because Kansas law says that is the minimum for hunting turkeys. Otherwise, most kids would do better with the .410 for the shotgun.

The gun is very small and light. This makes it great for most kids, but it kicks too hard in 20 gauge for small children. One of my buddies got one for his three boys with the deer rifle barrel (.243WIN, I think). He has big, strong sons, and they did not like the kick.

Even better, mine came in a zippered case with a shoulder strap. I just measured - and it is only 22 inches long. We got it cheap when they were on sales at Dick's. (Maybe $159 about seven years ago.) I think I saw some at Cabela's the last time I went through.

Best wishes, and have great fun on your land with the family.

Yesterday, as usual, was the best day to buy a gun. They were on sale at a lot of places. $100 22's weren't unusual. Since Black Friday was reportedly a bust, guns will probably be on sale until New years Eve.

The one mile warning on a box of 22 ammo has been around for years but I have never found anything that proves it in the real world. Ballistic charts indicate that a 40 gr 22 bullet drops 97 inches, when fired without elevation, in 250 yards. At 1/2 mile, it drops 375 inches. Of course, the amount of powder can vary which somewhat changes the drop factor. Elevation and types of bullet can be the wild cards and are considered by all shooters. Even air density and wind can be a factor in the small chunks of lead.

Dave, I'm actually seeing 22LR on local shelves again. The price is still a little high, but it is finally available. Several online stores are selling 22LR in bulk for almost normal prices.

If your interested in a really high end unit check out these guys.

https://www.volquartsen.com/

They build a "Fusion Take-Down Rifle" that you can change out barrels to different caliber. Arguably the best rifle ever built to date.

Cheers Don.

I'm not sure 1 gun will be a universal tool that you will use for everything you intend. I also will recommend the AR platform. I personally have them in several different caliber uppers ranging from .22lr thru 7.62x39.

I like the .308 but question if it is actually a necessity for 14 acres. I feel you can do just about anything you mentioned with a standard 5.56 and a decent sidearm. I'm starting to love my full size Glock 41 which is a .45ACP.

I would also absolutely pick up a Ruger 10 22 or a Henry.

For a .308 AR, DPMS makes about the least expensive of the bunch and I've seen them for about a grand+ or so.

Hey L; you will note that we have no aversion to spending your $.

Dave - If you are a gun guy, then you might like the "Box O' Truth" site. It's like we turned one of our best Pond Boss tinkerers loose on gun "myths" and conventional "wisdom".

I think the main guy is a retired engineer. Many interesting observations come out of his experiments.

I looked specifically for the .22 data, but I don't think he has figured out a way (yet) to catch the bullet in ballistic gel at the appropriate distance.

Rod, look up 22 bullet drop chart. It's loaded with 22 data.