I came home Tuesday to find I had very little pressure coming from my well (I knew nothing about wells), which feeds two hydrants and the house with NO pressure tank. The pressure finally diminished to nothing so on to the internet I went.

I first checked the pressure switch which was under the well-cap along with the wiring that goes to the well-pump. If you look closely, you can see where the left set of contacts are laying sideways.


I was able to correct them to get the pump working again until I could replace the pressure switch yesterday morning.

Turning the power back on I could hear the pump working to build up pressure. Then problem number two arrived. (sorry for the fuzzy photo)


The blue coiled tubing apparently attaches to the pump at the bottom (or maybe a pitless connector?) and the pressure switch at the top. This is what triggers the switch if/when the pressure drops. The problem is that the tubing is full of pinholes, top to bottom! Causing my pump to cycle way more than it should (explains the high electric bill!).

Out of all my internet research in the past two days, I've not seen this type of tubing used. It seems most people are using schedule 40 or 80 PVC. And I'm guessing the well is less than 60' deep, but that's just a guess at this point.

I need to replace the tubing (likely with schedule 40 or 80 pvc) so the pump needs to come out. I'm sure there's a pitless connector to feed the house, but what about the two hydrants? Could there be 3 pitless connectors? So far I've been unable to see down far enough to see even one pitless connector and I don't want to start on this until I know for sure what I'm doing.

The fact I have no pressure tank has made this harder to research on the internet. Does anyone have any knowledge of what I might have here and suggestions on removing the pump?

Questions:
Could there be 3 pitless connectors?
Would the tubing be connected directly to the pump, with another line from the pump feeding the pitless connector(s)?
Suggestions and/or advice on removing the pump?

Sorry for the long story but if you need more info just let me know, and thanks in advance for any help! I need to fix this ASAP before I burn out the pump.

PS - And the downside is I leave for Sioux City, IA at 1pm tomorrow for a weekend pool tournament so checking back will be sporadic.

Thanks again!

Stupid question: Can you ask your well driller to come out?

I had a severed wire in my well assembly a few years back. Something chewed through it. My well driller came out, found it instantly and fixed it.

A bladder tank will save wear and tear on the pump. I've never heard of a system like that for a house.

Not a stupid question, Cecil probably the smartest move!

But as I don't own the place and the trust has no money, I DIY about everything I can out here. But I also know my limits so I don't create more of a problem.

I'm just reaching out at this point. Paying to have something done is a last resort for me.


I agree, Esshup! This is why I'm having a hard time researching this on the internet. This is an old farmstead with most everything done bass ackwards. You'd be amazed at what I've seen and changed around here already!

I've never heard of multiple pitless adapters being used, but then again I've also never seen a system without a bladder tank.

It seems to me, that the coiled tubing only need connect to a line that leaves the well, not the pump itself. The entire water line would be pressurized by the pump, so it just needs to tap into the line somewhere for the pressure switch to function. And I'm betting that whoever rigged this up only went just as far as they had to with that tubing. Possibly to the pitless adapter itself.

Looks like someone just cobbled together an "on-demand" system using a coiled garden hose to absorb the water hammer on start-up. Can you see the pitless T-fitting? Since a "pitless adaptor" just allows the water line to exit the well through the well casing below a frost line, and uses compression/weight to seal, it is highly unlikely there are multiple exits.

My well that I use to fill and top off ponds and feed the trout pond 24/7 does not have a bladder tank either. However it isn't turned on and off much.

My well at the pond is the same way (on-off switch), with the water coming out of the top of the well-head opposed to the well that feeds the house and hydrants.

I'm de-pressurizing the system now to stop the spraying from the leaky tubing so I can drop a flashlight down for a better look, and hopefully have some answers regarding Tony and Rex's responses.

Thanks guys!

LL, there could be some confusion on the pitless adaptor. I can't imaging using 3 adaptors, but there are, 3 main pieces to one adaptor plus one to three seals.

For those that don't know what a pitless is... Pitless Adaptor

By the way, is that coiled hose made for air? I use those in the shop.

That blue hose is an air brake service hose from a semi to supply air the trailer..

I have soooo many other things I should be doing! And it took me longer to utilize Photobucket than it did to take all the photos! ARGH!

Here's a better look as to what's down there. It looks like this is what they call a "spool type" adapter (??). It also appears there may be female threads for a "T-bar" removal?





With that tubing being connected only with a hose-clamp, I know better than to pull on that to remove the adapter. So now I'm researching how to remove a spool-type adapter.

So Tony and Rex, this may address both of your responses. Maybe the spool-type adapter needs to be used when there's no bladder tank? But now it's how to safely remove it (corroded side-walls, etc.).

I had to look it up, but I think you may be correct. It looks like a spool adapter. How far down in the casing is it?

Here's the end of the hose where it attaches to the pressure switch



The green tape is that "magic" tape used to stop leaks. Yeah right

And thank you again for all your input! Maybe I'm getting closer to being able to fix this, although I leave for Sioux City, IA in a couple hours . I sure wished I could reach the adapter to just replace the hose/tubing.

Yep, that's air hose.

Exactly 5', Tony



Par for the course at this place!

Well....

1) Cut the casing off at a distance that would allow you to reach in and access the hose clamp, and then weld it back on. Not very practical.

2) Get lots of help, as in pretty much everyone you know, screw in the T wrench tight as you can, and have a go at pulling it out. My arms ache just thinking about it.

3) Call in a pro......I know.

4) Any chance that the leaks in the blue hose stop before reaching the adapter, giving you a shot at cutting off the hose below the rotten parts and splicing in a section of new hose? Sure, it's not the right thing to do, but sometimes you have to weigh the options. It might last a few more years, or leak again tomorrow however.


That's all I got......

Thanks again, SPRK!

#4 is what I'm about to find out. Hopefully the majority of leaks are towards the top so I can do just that,,,, for now at least. Even eliminating several of the leaks would help.

And there's very little on the web about removing spool-type adapters.

Any suggestions on good tubing, or just use the same type of air-line? It's only supplying pressure to the switch, not feeding the home.

I am only seeing the case seal to keep the water below frost line?..

Works like an expansion plug, usually has bolts that need to be loosened to release it from the well case sides..

Did you turn the power of before working on it? 220 can give you a heck of a jolt. Did that once behind a wash machine. Wo!

At this point, I would simply try and match the inner diameter of the existing hose, to facilitate splicing. I don't see that you have much to lose by using the same stuff.....we've pretty much thrown the book out the window anyway.

Looks like someone just used parts lying around to put this together. I know nothing about a spool adaptor, but that air service hose is fine for water use.

LOL, yessir I did! The shutoff is right near the well


It's now a moot point, Tony as the leaks begin from the bottom, too many that it just plain needs replaced. But not with air-line!


I've seen a type of well-spool while researching, used for flowing artesian wells and possibly in other wells with a very high-rising static head to keep the water below it, but with the hole (access hole) shown, I don't think it's that type, or at least hope it's not that type!

Thanks so much everyone, for taking the time to try and help me with this. I so much appreciate it!

Any other ideas or information on removing the spool are certainly welcomed and appreciated!

I gotta get packed for the weekend but I'll check back when I can. And you can bet I'll be checking with the 600+ pool players in this tournament. Maybe I'll get lucky and shoot against a team of well-drillers

Just looked on pumpsandtanks.com and it sounds like you have an older oring style pitless adapter...Most of the threads say have fun...LOL..

That is a mess LL, and like everyone else, have never seen a rig set up that way.

Good call on replacing the hose (it's not a tube), but replace it with something that's for potable water and drinking water safe (FDA stuff and compliance)

Who knows what the heck that hose is made of, and if it has degraded so far with pin holes and such, you are ingesting what ever it's made of.

It's incorrect to think that an air hose would be a wise choice replacement, or ever using one in the first place!!!

Ever drink water out of a garden hose, and it tastes like crap? Then get a drink out of the same faucet without the hose, and it's great!?

You may have had a good tickle off of this experience, which is good enough for anyone not wanting to do a repeat.

220 is enough to take you out pretty quick. Just be careful with this stuff.

JKB, the tubing only supplies water pressure to the pressure switch.

Any way for that to drain back to the water supply?

It's always a good bet to go by the book and follow code. In one aspect you're safe, as supposedly someone in the know has already done the thinking for you, and put it down in black and white for you to follow.

Easy.

Unfortunately, the world doesn't operate only in black and white. I believe that there are many instances, a great many actually, whereby one is afforded some leeway and may exercise a certain amount of creativity and intuitive reasoning. This is obviously not appropriate in every case, and learning to distinguish which ones are candidates for this approach is a skill that appears to me to be dwindling with each succeeding generation.

If I were forced to remove that well adapter to replace that line, would I go back with the same stuff? No, I would try and find something more suitable to the task at hand, first. But if I could save myself what surely promises to be an epically horrendous venture, by just splicing into that hose with the very same type of material, would I do it? You better believe it.

I wouldn't bat an eye at using a new, polyurethane air hose to carry water to that pressure switch.

I'm pretty sure he said the whole hose is toast.

There are compatible air hoses made today, but use something intended for water.

That sure is not going to be a fun one to fix tho.

You should see some of the cobble jobs we have to fix. We have a moral and ethical responsibility to make it right. Have to keep people alive, but there is often resistance by the people whose wallet is getting hit for the proper fix. Most are willing to make it right and we are flexible with them and their situation, but some insist on the band-aid approach, and we can't do band-aids. You should see the new factory I had to redo that was engineered in another country. It was fun tho, but we got a few surprises toward the end, like with the electrodes. Didn't know how they were doing that until they were installed. The engineer from the country asked me what would happen if he touched the EXPOSED lug (connection) to the electrode, I simply said, you will be killed. The human body can't handle a 25Kva kicker, especially if your feet are wet due to cooling water on the floor. It passed a rigorous inspection last week, and now I can sleep good. Till the next one

Very true, when I am doing work for someone else I always do my very best to make sure the job gets done correctly. When you're getting paid to produce results, I think you owe it to the customer as well as your reputation, to make sure everything is according to spec.

But when I'm working for myself, well, I've been at this long enough to realize that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

That's what's called...

Intuitive reasoning. My parents simply referred to it as common sense.

I guess I don't care anymore, so whatever makes you happy is fine with me.

I think it comes down to a difference in philosophies, JKB. Some choose to see things in black or white.......a thing is either right, or it's wrong, with nothing ever in between. And in your line of work, that philosophy will probably suit you well. Truth be told, I practice the very same thing here in my shop. I want my customers to be satisfied with my work, and doing it "by the book" is the safe bet for everyone involved. If there's a question, I can open "the book" and show the customer that "it says so right here".

But.....I also have come to realize that there exists a great many stopping-off points between right and wrong, or black and white, where my own needs are concerned. And though some may equate it with heresy, I daresay that the book fails to take these into account. And I totally understand why, as there are an ever increasing number of individuals who are devoid of the intuitive reasoning that I spoke of earlier. I'm sure you encounter them from time to time the same as I do. It's much simpler to declare the book as being the final word, and apply it's doctrine across the board for every application. Safer for everybody, too.

At any rate, this thread has drifted from it's intended path, it's a beautiful day outside, and I have wood to haul. Not to mention treating the HBG pond for algae, mowing the lawn, and if there's still time, taking an hour or two to go mushroom hunting.

Time to go.

Well, for those of you who have tugged on a few stubborn T-posts, you know how my back feels right now

But I wanted to take a break from the heating pad and reply that the job is done! And I wish I would taken more photos, but then again I doubt anyone will run into this same type of system, which come to find out does in fact have a buried bladder/pressure tank, which apparently was common back in the day (late 50's farmstead). It was also estimated by the farmer that the well is around 160' deep.

Helping today was the landlord/trustee, the farmer that has farmed the land for many years (and was there when this well was dug), and me. The landlord is an extremely impatient man (who's also the one who put 30 Amp fuses in all but 2 in the fuse box because the others kept blowing ) and the farmer who's a busy guy with other places I think he'd have rather been. So as you can guess, it was a let's-get-it-done-and-move-on operation. And with me not owning the place, I had to be the one to keep suggesting that if we're going to do this, let's at least do it "right".

Was it done "right"? That would depend on the 3 different perspectives in attendance today. From "that's good enough", to "that should work", to "why cut corners if we're going this far?". Personally I would have replaced the wiring, determined the depth of the pump and well, and at least replaced the O-rings on the adapter. Oh well

I made a T-bar out of 1 1/4" pipe which screwed into the top of the adapter. And after trying many different (and somewhat comical) ways of getting it to break lose, we rounded up a Handyman Jack to break it free. It then pulled up fairly easy (but very heavy) to just above the well casing to be able to replace the hose. We then added an 18" piece of pipe with coupler to the pitless adapter for ease of removal next time (which I'm sure there will be), then just dropped it back down and fired it up. It dropped 2" shy of where it was before, but after hitting the power and it worked, it was deemed "good enough" .

In total, the job took 2 1/2 hours including the trip to Menards for the pipe, and across town for the hose.
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Here's a picture of the spool-type adapter after attaching the new hose before we cleaned it up and greased the O-rings. The air line attaches to a fitting at the top of the spool adapter and also attaches to the pressure switch.


Thank you all for your input and insight, even though it got a little off-topic, but fully appreciated none the less.

I can now add to my knowledge of wells as something I would like to leave "well" enough alone

Water's on, nobody got hurt, and I'm assuming all parties involved in the project are still speaking to one other....mission accomplished.

All is great, Sprk thanks!

We also bleached the well so as I'm now smelling the chlorine in the water I'm wondering if I'll be full-blonde after my morning shower

My moving in here had created some animosity with some folks (such as Matt the farmer) who had free reign of the place during the 4 years it was vacant, and I've had to be the one to police that (which includes putting up a gate) with the trustee living out of town (he and I get along great).

So yesterday was a great bonding experience for Matt and I. He was pretty cold for the first hour, but we ended up having a lot of laughs and he even complimented me on how much I've done out here and how great the place looks. As I extended my hand and offered thanks, he parted with "I really enjoyed working with you today, Keith". That may not seem like much, but for what I've dealt with over the past 2 years, and just signing on for another 3, it was huge!

No amount of money could have made yesterday more successful!

Mission accomplished is an understatement.

So, the next question is do you know where the bladder tank is, and what's its condition like? Is the correct amount of air in the tank?

Congrats on a job well done!

Thank you, Esshup!

Being overly inquisitive I asked the same questions (except for the amount of air in the tank?) and it was just a guess as to it's exact location but Matt knew it's (or should be) within 5' of the well.

Jim's (trustee) comment: "if it's working, leave it alone!"

He also thinks everything I do out there is overkill, such as replacing the 12/2 romex tapped into the overhead triplex at the pond AND at the shop with 4g wiring (230v going to each), and also correcting the over-fused fuse box in the house, etc..

I'm thankful he lives out of town .

Now see, that wasn't so difficult now, was it?

150 minutes elapsed time from start to water flow, and a good fix!!!

You could have cobbled it and wasted much more time on it only for a temporary fix, then you would need another band-aid soon and waste more time.

Thank the Lord you did not take a torch to the casing They obviously got it in their without torching the pipe, so it must come out without torching the pipe.

I'm glad for you that you figured this out. Well done!

Now, if I could only get maintenance people in factories...

If the bladder tank doesn't have the air in it that it needs, then you'll be eating up more electricity with the well turning on and off more frequently.

If you can, put a pressure gauge on the water system somewhere. Take a reading when the pump stops and again when it starts. Measure the volume of water between off and on. That should tell you something about the condition of the bladder tank.

There's a difference between fixing something that is broke and scheduled maintenance.

And maybe add to that; correcting the incorrect (I'm sure there's more interesting terminology for that)
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Thanks, Esshup!

I would imagine I could put the pressure gauge at the hydrant (or in-line via the garden hose) since it runs from the same well, with water on and off as you suggest, and be able to be near the well so I know when it kicks on. I'll report back on that one!

I think I've seen bladder tanks with what looks like a valve stem on it I assume for adding/maintaining pressure but having the tank in-ground, you think they'd leave a way to service/maintain it?

The well at the pond (simple on-off switch) has a valve stem on it, but I'm guessing that's to blow out the lines to winterize? But that is purely a WAG!

Try tell that to some of these factories...

That's what it's for, so good guess!

Usually on stuff up here that is seasonal and can freeze, like outdoor hydrants and such. Just pump some compresses air in them to blow water out of the lines. Saves having to replace piping and such that can't expand when water freezes.