First off, a special thank you to Rex (Rainman), he phoned me after I sent him a PM with some questions. After an hour on the phone I decided I want to take my next 2 week vacation going on the road with Rex! Never a dull moment .

Having read about every thread on muddy water, alum and hydrated lime treatments I wanted to show my jar and 5 gal bucket test results, for any interested, now and in the future.

The alum I used is the Tones spice Alum found at the grocery store.

First pick was taken 5-7-16, heavy rains came on 5-9-16:


3 weeks after rains:


The jar on the left is fresh pond water, the jar in the middle is after 10 days of sitting in a jar in the dark and jar on the right is tap water:


After adding 1/4 tsp Alum to fresh pond water. Jar on left is 1.5 hours after adding Alum, middle jar fresh pond water, jar on right is tap water:


Jar on left is same jar with 1/4 tsp, jar in middle is 30 minutes after adding 1/8 tsp alum. You can see how the alum is pulling down the particles.


Same jars, 1 hour later:


Same jars the next morning:


So now the 5 gallon bucket, adding 1/2 Tbsp alum:

Before adding alum:


30 minutes after adding 1/2 Tbsp:


1 hour after adding 1/2 Tbsp alum:


12 hours after adding 1/2 Tbsp alum:


I will do another 5 gallon bucket test using less and less alum to determine how much I might need if I decide to use it.

As Rex and I discussed, seeing that things were settling after 10 days the pond may very well settle on it's own. But on the other hand will it, with the aeration system running? With the clarity at 2-3" it's preventing any plankton bloom and fishing is tough! I've caught only one LMB in nearly 3 weeks, and it looked like this:

Dang Keith, the alum even cleared the bass.

My pond is in the same boat, it has slowly started to clear then another heavy rain event happens and it muddies it right back up. I have a fresh five gallon bucket on the dock to see how long it takes to clear on its own once again. I have my aerator running just running 4 hours a night hoping it will clear sooner. After the latest gully washer on Friday I am back down to 1" of visibility as of this evening but I am seeing some evidence of a bloom on the surface and my GSH are still eating a few pellets off the surface, every night the feeding gets a little better.

Stay tuned, I have 100 lbs of alum and 50 lbs of hydrated lime leftover from 5 years ago that I might try but don't really want too while my RES and GSH are spawning.

In case anyone is wondering, my "sexing RES project" is on hold due to muddy water.

I'd overdo it a little, that way any more that washes in will be taken care of.

I will need to find more alum, last time I did this I used 150#s.

Secchi disk reading this morning is 2", my bucket on the dock is about 4" so it is slowly clearing.

Here is photo from last week, tossing pellets pushed the green towards the bank.

Keith, in your example here you did not add any lime for maintaining the pH to the desired range. Alum is an acid and I suspect it is most likely in the 4 or 4.5 range (based on my experience with chemicals in my work along with the post I have read here). So, I am guessing you have or will add lime when using the alum. So can we talk about the addition or distribution of the lime into a pond.
Recently, there was a post where the lime was added at the trolling motor and maybe, it was added to fast or not enough was added. Resulting in a low pH in the pond water. Is there any reason why lime can not be added to the alum mixture where one can check the pH of the mixture before it is added to the pond? If one could add the two chemicals together before added them to the pond, it would seam to me, this would reduce the chances of having a low pH in the pond during or after the alum is added. What do you and Rex have to say when or about mixing the two chemical together, checking the pH and then adding the mixture to the pond?

Tracy

Tracy, I was just getting ready to post the below when I saw your question, and as far as mixing the alum and lime Rex said it would basically turn into a plaster of paris. And IIRC and I hope Rex will correct me, the alum is more effective with an adequate PH at 7.2. So if adding alum to an already low PH, it may not be as effective. There's also the issue of drastic PH changes when adding it and to leave "lanes" when applying the lime so the fish can escape to a normal PH if needed.

Shorty, how long has your bucket been sitting on the dock?

My secchi disk this morning showed 4" so I too think I'm slowly clearing but it's been nearly 3 weeks?



And I'm too afraid to shut down the aeration system although, I'd like to because it's been so calm lately (my pond right now is covered in cotton).

I filled the 5 gallon bucket again last night adding only 1/2 tsp alum and it cleared as quickly as 1/2 Tbsp. I'm guessing an 1/8th tsp would do the same.


Seems to me a pretty minute amount making me wonder if an alum treatment is necessary. I filled the 5 gallon bucket again this morning without alum so I'll see how long it takes. But I'd sure like to see a bloom starting!

On a good note, the fish are feeding well.

So, just a waiting game???

On my test strip this morning it shows the following:
PH 6.8
Alkalinity 40
Hardness 150
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 20

Keith in my experience, most every chemical mixes better in a good pH environment. Low Ph's don't usually mix well together. So if the two additives, when mixed together, it gets thick?? So it sounds to me this might be caused by introducing the lime to fast or the Ph gets to high and it causes it to get thick. In my business I would add a thinner, but I would not do this to my pond, but I might add sodium bicarb to the mix and see what might happen? I don't think it would hurt the fish, and might even help with indigestion.

Tracy

PS, my sediment pond is dirty right now, I might have to do a little mixing of the alum and lime together and see what I might be able to do with it

Tracy, that's what I don't have, experience . I know Rex is on the road but I hope he chimes in. Alum/Lime treatments being one of his specialties I would guess he's tried about everything. He told me he just treated a 20 acre foot, 3 acre pond with his alum tank in front and lime tank in back. In both tanks (IIRC) he created a way to "churn" the mixtures in each tank. So if his "paddle" keeps everything churned, maybe there is a way to mix the two together which I think he's trying. (Rex, forgive me if I'm butchering up our discussion!)

He used the analogy (mixing alum and lime) of mixing starch with water. If you let it sit, even for a short time the starch will settle. Keep mixing it and it stays suspended.

Shorty, I've been considering doing an alum treatment on my pond as well and know a source I can get it for a fair price. Let me know if you're interested and we could put an order together.

NEDOC, I may be interested as well!

I just need to do the math after seeing 1/2 tsp (and maybe less) clearing a 5 gallon bucket.

Again if IIRC, Rex mentioned 100 lbs per acre foot.

Since Saturday evening. Friday night we had an inch of rain come down in 30 minutes accompanied by a radar indicated tornado. We rescued 4 dozen RES and a bunch of GSH out of the pasture the next morning that went through the overflow.

Shorty, that does not sound good. Rescuing fish is good but Having to do so, not so good.

Tracy

Send me a PM and let know how much per 50# bag and what type. What I have on hand is "standard ground", I just made sure that I mixed it very well before putting it in the pond.

http://www.seedranch.com/Aluminum-Sulfate-Standard-Ground-50-lbs-p/aluminum-sulfate-standard.htm

Keith, I have been mixing chemicals together for 42 yrs. have learned a lot about mixing them. I have already learned of alum and lime mixing together just from our short conversation here. If I can find the time, maybe I can do a little researching and mixing I think Rex has come up with a way and sound like he is successful at it.

Tracy

Rex told me not to mix the two together in the same tank as it was applied because it would create a paste.

Keith, in your situation, I'd bag doing anything else to the pond unless your situation changed.... But OTOH I know it's hard NOT to do anything.

Amen! It's killing me!

My goal before I leave is to maximize the enjoyment of what I've accomplished here but I can't do that with a turbid pond and fish that aren't biting!

ARGH!

They were mostly 1-3" fish and a handful of 5"+ RES. It is not too unusual for small fish to go out the overflow when it is running good. I suppose I could put up some netting to prevent it.

Keith even my pond which is notoriously clear even in Summer is turbid with visibility under 30" - you should be seeing an inch or two clarity daily between these rain events - I wouldn't worry about it at all just give it some time. Unfortunately rain will likely become scarce here in a few weeks but it will allow us an opportunity for the clay particles to settle.

Thanks for the encouragement, TJ! I've decided to be patient and wait it out instead of pouring more money into the pit .

Some things that had me nearly in a panic was not getting a bite in 2 weeks of fishing, except the one LMB being nearly albino, and seeing sores on nearly all BG and BCP caught.

Rex eased my mind in that the fish just can't see the bait, and the one I caught likely had his mouth open and my lure landed in it and the BG likely have sores from a recent spawn.

If not for the PB family, I'd be a wreck, lol.

Yet, still LovnLivin

Next 15 days look dry, I think you'll see vast improvement in clarity over the next several days. Is your water settling on it's own without Alum? If so, I think you're ok - can't imagine the precipitation would have caused an ionic imbalance on it's own suddenly - but I'm not a water chemistry expert.

Are your fish still feeding? If so, that relieves some of my worries about no angling action the past two weeks per Rex.

Do you have any photos of sores on the fish? Your BCP should have spawned 6 weeks ago - if lesions are fresh and not nearly healed they might be indicative of something else afoot for the BCP at least.

What lures are you trying?

With clarity like that you need high contrast, displacement, flash, and noise. I would probably throw a black-skirted, silver double Colorado spinnerbait with a chartreuse trailer. There's also a single-Colorado blade with a rattle made by Strike-King that I like.

Also hardbaits with high-contrast color patterns, rattles and lots of wobble.

Keith, let me encourage you that the water may clear up on its own. My BOW was murky for months, with lots of colloidal clay. Alum cleared up a sample, so I thought I'd have to get the water treated. But when the rains finally slowed, the water gradually got better. Now I have clarity down to 24 - 28 inches most days (though it is too acidic for a good bloom, unfortunately).

Hopefully things will work out for you as well. You can always treat the problem, but sometimes patience pays off. Good luck!

Keith, it sounds like your pond will clear on its own given time. Based on past experience it should clear slowly at first, then once a bloom starts back up it will start to clear a little faster and then cascade into much better clarity as the bloom gets stronger, a feed back loop. A few weeks without any more rain and warmer temps should help, it will also let you know if you need to help it along.

I am seeing reports that the storm that hit us Friday night also hit Lake Wanahoo hard and that a fish kill might be under way there.

I'm planning on treating my pond as there are ponds nearby that are always muddy and never clear. My pond has been taking longer to clear each time it has gotten muddy. My fish did feed much better tonight, my SMB were very active wacking the numerous small GSH that were pushing pellets around.

My pond almost clears to 13 to 14 inches. And then, another big rain hits with sand running in. I had it pretty well cleared for several years by dropping trees in the run off areas. The last 2 years of heavy rains makes everything a run off area. Two weeks ago visibility had gotten to about 14 inches. However, we have had 6 inches of heavy rains in the last 10 days. Now, a chrome lure disappears at about 4 inches.

But, I'm not whining. 5 years of drought are hard to forget.

A little bird told me that you were whining about getting too much rain.......

Thanks, everyone for your responses!

TJ, I decided to do just that, to wait it out and see what happens. Which gets you off the hook as I was going to see if you wanted to assist in an alum/lime treatment .

I did fill the 5 gal bucket yesterday without alum, leaving it in the fish house so I'll see if and/or how quickly it clears.

The fish are feeding so yes, very encouraging! During feeding this morning I did catch 3 BG, and none with sores. Again, very encouraging!

Bocomo, it seems like I've thrown everything at them! Plastics, chatterbaits, spinnerbaits, topwater, bright colors and dark, jig-n-pig, crawlers, etc. The only thing I haven't tried is live bait but I'll toss the cast net out and see if I can get some small BG and try that.

Anthropic, again thanks for the encouragement, patience not being my greatest virtue! But I've gotten better since managing a pond .

Shorty, Rex said the same thing as far as once a bloom gets established, it will help with the settling. I'd love to go from a brown to green!

Dave, it seems like you all go from one extreme to the other. But man I really loved being in Texas! And what the heck are you doing up at 4am!?!

Maybe one additional question; would there be any advantage to turning the well on and letting it run for a few, or several days?

I agree with waiting it out! Here are some pics of the Norman/Noble OK pond and upgrades I made to the barge after the steering helm dissolved on me at Cisco's pond...lol

I used cam-lock fittings, without a seal, to create a spinning agitator to keep the chemicals in a good slurry. There is a screened pick-up under the stainless steel shield (I got griped at for such an ingenious use of a mixing bowl). Using these chemical totes, chemical tends to gum up into paste in the corners...not anymore!

I also built a new boom, with 4 left side, 4 right side, and 8 wide area flat boomless sprayer nozzles drilled out to 4 GPM flow@60psi and mounted on a stiffened a 1" PVC delivery boom.

At nearly 70 GPM chemical delivery flow, I needed to be able to supply a constant inflow of water to the mixing tote, so I put valves on the intake side of the mixing/supply pump. Once the valves on the mixing pump are balanced to match the output of the pressure/delivery pump, all I do is steer and pour bags of chemical into the tote as it is applied. I sprayed 2500# of Hydrated Lime and 6000# of Alum on this customers 3 acre pond in just under 4 hours...I started spraying at 10:30am and was finished at 5:30pm. The extra time was loading 50# bags onto the barge and taking some breaks from lugging the 8500# of chemical around.

Scott, I wouldn't have a clue who the little birdie is, but I'm willing to bet he's as sick of it as DD1 is. There's just something wrong about wearing PJ's and Mucks just to take the trash out.

Quite the change in the before and after pictures Rex. I bet your clients are happy with those results.

Shorty and Lovnlivin, if there is a way to add a decent size sediment pond ahead of your main runoff water source, it sure has helped keep my main pond cleaner after these big rain events.

For it to work, it needs to be able to capture the muddy water and hold it or slow the velocity for a while. My runoff from farm land goes through a tiny 20x50 pre-sediment pond then into a 1/10th acre sediment pond then into the main 3 acre pond.

Helps a lot.

I have drain tile feeding mine and the neighbors field is close by so a sediment pond wouldn't be practical. I am usually OK unless we have a very heavy fast rain which has happened twice in the last month, even with a sediment pond its likely it would have gotten muddy.

Secchi disk readings this morning were 2-1/2" in the pond, and 5" in the bucket.

OK, I think you're fine as long as they're still feeding. If you catch BCP with lesions get us photos ASAP so some of the experts can troubleshoot.

Once I start getting some clarity back I'm sure they'll be on fire again so I'll keep you posted if they have lesions!

Rex, thanks for all the photos and descriptions! There's just no substitute for creative ingenuity, and you sir appear to have nailed it with that operation! Congrats to you!

I can't help but think if you were to advertise the before and after's of treating muddy ponds, you'd be doing that full time with more work than you can handle.

But if it were me, just one job hauling 8000 lbs, or over 150 50lb bags of material would do me in for the year!

PS - Thanks again for your time!

Keith, try a small jig with a piece of night crawler on it under a bobber, keep it shallow and move it slowly close to the bank. Secchi disk reading here this evening are just 3" but I managed to catch 5 RES in about 35 minutes, three very gravid females and two males.

Shorty, It was getting dark but I tried it and got a small BG on the second cast! I'll try again in the morning. Thanks!

Nice RES BTW, and 5 in 35 minutes, that's encouraging! Oh, and my secchi disk shows I gained another 1 1/2".

BTW, I really like how you have your pliers on your dock board, great idea!

After looking @ the Pics Rex posted, I will double down and say again, "looks like Rex has it figured out" Great Job Rainman and I bet your Client is Happy, Happy, Happy

Tracy

Clarity is up to 6" so I'm gaining little by little and there appears to be a bloom as well.

It's still tough on the LMB bite but the BG are eating and hitting well.

Caught this nice one today on a crawler.

Came in at 9" and .92 lb. And I'm guessing male due to the long ear tab and scale tipping?

Male

+1 M CSBG