OK ladies and gentlemen, my 1 1/2 acre mudhole is about 1 1/2 year old after the renovation but is still almost as muddy as it was right after the digging. The pond was drained and I restocked with BG and RES after about 3 months. Then stocked LMB after a year so the BG could get going good. My problem is you can't see a foot deep. I did habe some chara start growing this last spring/summer and now have 2 small clumps of cattails. I have done the gypsum, the alum and lime but nothing seems to work. I've also been told that some ponds just stay muddy. I'd like to have a somewhat clear pond if possible. should i up the amount of alum?
Rex!!! Oh Rex!!!! Calling Rainman!!!
The fish seem to be fine Dave. All I have caught so far have been the BG but they seem to be fat and happy. I started feeding last spring and they tear it up. The ones we've caught don't have much color due to the muddy water I think but other than that, they seem to be fine. I'm hoping to start catching some small LMB this spring.
Alum works only when it gets to the "breakpoint". I've probably cleared up 15 ponds and lakes over the years with the stuff. My problem has always been judging when to stop. Nowadays, there's buffered alum which is much, much safer to use.
Alum will absolutely work...absolutely. The catch is knowing when to stop. As soon as you hit the breakpoint, clay particles begin to clump, called "flocculate", become heavy and sink. If you use alum, at the same time it reaches breakpoint, the pH of your water can begin to drop dramatically. If that happens, fish die.
If you don't add just the right amount of alum, there are no results. The water stays muddy.
Buffered alum minimizes the risk of pH drop.
The other caveat is this...once the pond becomes clear is no guarantee it will stay clear. I've seen some ponds that I didn't think would stay clear be clear for years and others that I was confident would stay clear become muddy with the next rainfall.
I've seen some ponds that have been muddy for years become clear and then totally choke with aquatic plants in three years. Those ponds are nutrient rich and when the water clears, that food feeds plants.
So, that's a thumbnail sketch of what I've seen.
Bob is there a supplier in Texas that sells the buffered alum? My place is in Cisco out close to Abilene. I was mixing the alum in a 55 gal. drum and using a trash pump to spray in the water at various locations around the pond. I'd pump a couple of drums of alum, then a drum of lime and so on. killing the fish was a big concern so I probably stopped before i should have. The pond didn't have plants in it until i renovated it basicly just making it alot deeper than it was when I bought the place. Now it has some but not many I think is due to the clarity. Thanks for the input!
Read this to understand.
https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/108/Get the soil and water tested to have a baseline to work from.
Cisco,
Be careful what you ask for! I have a clear pond a very clear pond and although it looks nice at certain times I have more issues with weeds and chara and Herons getting my fish!!! All I am saying is each side has it's pros and cons. The fish will do fine in the muddy water if that's what your worried about. I fish some water here you can't see 6 inches and catch some of the best and biggest bass, blue gill and crappie out of it. And you are right about the color. You don't have as much color on your fish because of the lack of sunlight, but that doesn't hurt them in anyway. Good luck with tyring to find a happy medium. The other con to clear water dang fish can see you coming from 30 feet away!!
Buffered Alum is nothing more than way over priced Alum and Hydrated lime.
As Bob said, the concentration of alum must reach a high enough concentration before a noticable clearing begins. Instead of paying 10 to 20 times the cost of buying Aluminum Sulfate and Hydrated lime seperately. The dangers can be minimized by adding the lime at a 50% by weight rate of the alum (100# alum--50# H lime). That Buffered stuff is crazy expensive and is just a high profit item meant for garden ponds.
Read the "Alum kicks clay butt" thread under the Muddy Waters section and do the bucket test you'll find. Determine the pounds of alum you will need, then double it.
Cisco, I agree with RC51 about wanting really clear water. I faced the same muddy water problems and partially cleared it to 18" two years ago with alum(post in Alum kicks clay butt). The pond muddies everytime it rains, and now has 12" of visibilty. But, I have exactly zero weeds. Thousands of CNBG come to the surface when I feed, so they must be able to hide from the HSB & LMB in the structure & murky water. Aesthetically,I like to look at clear water & see the fish better, but like not having to deal with weed problems/herbicide costs,application, etc.... du
Clear water and Muddy water both have the same effect on the base of the ponds food chain...it won't exist. Clear water is sterile water and muddy water does not allow zooplankton and phytoplantonic growth due to the lack of light penetration.
Clearing a muddy pond often causes an explosion of submerged plant growth in established ponds by alowing photo synthesis to occur and because fertility exists already. If that fertility is used by the zoo and phyto planktons, submerged plants will not be as much of an issue and you will gain the base of the food chain. A fertile green water that has 18-30 inches of clarity is far better than that same clarity in muddy water. If you use alum, use enough to clear ALL the mud out. Trying to get a partial clearing of mud with alum means any colloidal clay entering a pond will remain suspended. The intent when using alum is to allow the planktonic growth to begin in a pond and allow the clarity to remain based on the algae bloom present..not from the mud suspended.
Thanks guys. I did the bucket test last year, well actually it was the jar test but i used the amount of alum it called for. I can double the amount if you think it will be better. I've been at the ranch hunting with the grandson or I would've responded sooner. I have been seeing more plant life areound the edges of the pond so I assume it's growing a little farther out also.
Cisco, I have used as much as 6 times the the amount suggested from a jar test with no fish stress....well, the prey fish sorta get freaked out at being seen and chased by the predators...
If you use the hydrated lime..NOT Ag lime at a 50% by weight proportion to the alum ,while applying the alum slurry, the potential PH drop is eliminated. The Alum, as a chemical poses no danger, to the fish UNLESS your water's natural PH is below 6.0. The only danger from alum or hydrated lime to your fish from either of these products is the PH change causing a rapid, dramatic change in PH.
Alum should be mixed with water and sprayed for best results. Just broadcast the lime by hand into the pond seperately from the alum slurry. Don't mix the two products in the same container or it thickens quickly.
Thanks Rainman. I read the Alum kicks clay's butt thread before my last application. I still need to get some grass growing around one side of the pond. It's pretty bare right now from all the silt my dirt guy pushed out last year when I dug the pond out. I plan on planting something(I don't know what yet) this spring. I do have a couple of questions, is one time of year better than another and how exactly do I know when I've applied enough alum? Will I see it clearing? The last thing I want to do is kill all the fish I stocked.
Thanks again for the help!
You can apply it anytime of the year. When the Alum creates the floc process, you will know it! It looks like clouds and mountains are forming in your water. You really can't add too much Alum/H Lime mixture. Both products can kill fish from causing a drastic PH change, but when used together, they cancel the other out, there is little to no PH change.
Feel free to click my link if you want to call me.