The hatchery owner suggested I put 60 3" Koi, some giant red crayfish and a gallon of bacteria in my pond to help get rid of the FA.

I stocked this pond in Sept 06 and I have not gotten the numbers or growth of fish I should have. The fish average 2-4" and are not real numerous. The tadpole numbers are huge however.

The pond is very clear 3-4' and is spring fed. The FA is covering the whole shallow end where the fish need to breed. I see BG fighting for little open spaces in the FA to nest.

What do you think of this recommendation ILO of chemical treatments which I would prefer not to use.

I do plan on having a private biologist test the water in another month and write a proposal. I would like to fix it myself though if I could.

Mark, I have never heard of koi eating FA, but that doesn't mean anything; maybe the hatchery owner knows something. As far as the crayfish, I have heard that some crayfish do eat vegetation, however, that needs verified.

Some have said that Koi may stir up bottom sediment which would decrease water clarity which may have an effect on vegetation growth. Maybe this is what the hatchery owner is talking about?

I don't believe that Grass Carp eat FA either.

From what I've heard, some forum members have had success with Tilapia eating FA???

Maybe someone can chime in on that.

I checked with Zett's hatchery and my number is wrong. They recommend 24 per surface acre and they do eat FA. If you check out the John Marshall Water District web site they also recommend Koi as a chemical alternative.

With LMB in the pond( very small now) they say the Koi won't be able to reproduce.

Ask them to show you data what water quality and water transparency is in the ponds with 24 koi/ac. Koi eat FA like I eat salad, it is just a small percent (5-10%) of my diet. Not much biomass when we are talking about several hundred to 1000 pounds of FA per acre. Now tilapia eat algae practically exclusively. Tilapia are herbivores (plant eaters) and Koi are omnivores (feeds on a variety of living and dead plants & animals).
Koi achieve FA control by keeping sediments roiled in suspension that limits light penetration that suppresses FA and planktonic algae. Ponds where koi are controlling FA are always muddy looking or dosed with blue dye as make-up. Check it out.

Bill, you are very convincing on the negatives with Koi. Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. I think Tilapia are hard to find around here though and will die each fall.

As my pond is very clear now I don't really want to muddy it. What about adding the bacteria to help plankton form? Any thoughts on the giant red crayfish?

I also have the ability to draw down the pond 3 feet which would leave most of the shallows dry where the FA is most prominant. I am loathe to do this however as the pond took a very long time to fill.

How much FA is too much? Are there any benefits to it at all? From reading these forums I realize that it is a bad idea to kill it all at once.

I thought the pond would be simple but it is harder than growing crops.

Tilapia would be great for algae control in northern ponds bacause they DO die every year. This way you don't have to worry about population control and overpopulation. Plus when they die, the smaller ones are terrific bass food in the fall before winter for the bass. Larger tilapia are great cooked several ways. Buying a few tilapia each year is better than spending dollars on chemical algecides and expensive bacteria. You and the bass cannot eat algecides or baceria products. Tilapia have a triple benefit, table food, fish food and natural (green) control of FA - good use of your money.

I am not aware of bacteria products enhancing a plankton bloom in a muddy/murky pond. Maybe someone else can explain how the mechanics of this would occur.
My experience with bacteria is they perform specific tasks or jobs. If your pond problem matches the particular ability of a specific brand of bacteria then they seem to work in your pond. Some people like and are enthusiastic about them and some people think they are a waste of money. It amounts to the right tool for the right job. In my opinion there is not a lot of published science as to how and why they work in individual, specific situations. IMO it is usually a trial and error method - a roll of the dice - with no guarantees.

As I see it, FA has two main benefits. 1. its fast growth absorbs and binds lots of nutrients from the water column, thus it purfies and tends to clear the water. 2. Its thick and abundant, nuisance growth limits the amount of fishing that can be done, thus it gives the fish a much needed "break" from the anglers.

I do not know what giant red crayfish are. Can you provide a scientific name?. They sound like and exotic imported species which can become an invasive and probematic species. I think an abundant crayfish population in a pond could probabaly control FA. However the water may turn cloudy with lots of crayfish activity.

If it helps, I do not believe that crayfish will
controll FA. My pond is full of crayfish and my fish pond adjoins 3 crawfish ponds on the South, East and west sides. My pond is a year old now and has plenty of FA. The crawfish farmer is draining 2 of the crawfish ponds and both have Fa in them. Get the crawfish for Bass bait, not FA controll.

Hope this helps.

The crawfish were part of a 3 way assault- Koi, crawfish and bacteria. I think I'm going to rake what I can and watch.

Mark I think the raking and watching is a very good idea.

I have seen crawfish turn a clear pond into a muddy soup, especially exotic ones.
Kois around here do not eat much algae, in fact their waste increases ammonia in ponds over time.
Bacteria are the only method coupled with aeration that works for us so far.
FA are a sign of excess nutrients, nutrients management is recommended.
Good luck!

This is the best website of all. I never realized how much excellent advice one could get from others that just want to help.

The pond is new, took a long time to fill. The water is very clear(3'plus estimate). I have seen very few fish since stocking on 9/08/06. The FA has been very aggressive.

The large shallow end I wanted for waterfowl has been overun with FA. The only ducks so far have been fish eaters that hang around the pea gravel spawning areas. Lucky me.

Anyway, I think I will wait before I intoduce Koi or chemicals. However, would a 3 foot drawdown in Sept help me retard next years FA growth? The pond is new and I assume there is still a correct balance of fish. All BG, LMB, CC, FHM etc. were stocked as fingerlings on the same day.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Mark
If pond is new, do you have any vegetation growing in it? if not, planing to introduce non invasive species in certain key area will reduce your FA problem.

The FA are all over likely due to the fact that nothing is there to use the nutrients in the water. In a new pond, we often see an algae bloom until a balance is reached.

In fact its a good primer for a new pond, it will create a layer of organic sediments and that is needed for the bacterial fauna at the bottom. Balance starts at the bottom. Do not treat to quickly if the pond is new, time is on your side!

Mark,
M.Paris is providing good advice that is consistant with what we see here in northern OH for the break-in of new ponds. It is best to remove a good protion or a much as possible of the FA that is floating. Removing FA removes nutrients from the new pond and helps lessen the FA next year, providing you are able to abate some of the incoming nutrients.

Good quality bacteria may be worth a try once you remove a significient amount of the current FA to help manage and hopefully lessen the FA. FA abundance, once established, is usually proportional to the amount of dissolved nutrients in the water column.

Thanks for the advice. I ordered a rake and will try to remove what I can. I think I will rake and watch and not add any new fish species or chemicals this year and just observe the evolution of this pond. I am intriqued by ulta sonic methods of control however.