Will a Gast 0523 1/4hp pump supply enough air for 2 diffusers in 9 feet of water and 3 diffusers in 4-5 feet of water. I would run separate lines to the three in shallow water.

So what your asking is will your pump, pump enough air to run 5 fusers all at the same time? Or are you talking about running the one at 9 feet and then running the one in 4 feet separate? If so then I would say yes it would. If your wanting to do all of them at the same time then I would say I am not sure.....

RC

RC51

I forgot to mention this when we talked and I didn't want to bother you again....so I figured I would ask here.

After we talked, I realized I didn't take into account the island that separates the pond almost in half. also, the shallower part has some ridges that rise to within 1-2 feet of the surface.

I would like to run them all at the same time.

I want to make sure I get the right pump.....as like most of you I don't have money to burn!

Ok here is where someone else may have to chime in. I do not think that pump will adequately work to all those diffusers at that same time even with a gang valve to help control air flow.... I may be wrong I'm just not sure?? Hopefully someone like Esshup or Bill will chime in and let your know for sure?

RC

I think you can operate the 5 disk membrane diffusers with the 0523. I'm operating 6 diffusers with that pump, although in deeper water (11-15ft). Depending on water clarity you may not need to provide full mixing to the diffuser in 4-5ft of water. I question if anoxic conditions occur in most ponds at the bottom zone 4-5ft deep especially if the area gets some wind action. Before I would place diffusers in 4-5 ft of water, I would verify that this area develops significant stratification and anaerobic conditions. Wind action normally mixes most ponds down to 6 ft deep. Exceptions are ponds are wooded areas with little wind action.

Thanks Bill!

I am new to this so how do I verify stratification and anaerobic conditions?

This pond gets a fair to good portion of wind especially in the shallower area.

Bill, esshup, etc
If you or someone else northern IN, OH needs a Gast pump, this one popped up on Craigslist and looks to be in new/mint condition.


Gast pump in S Michigan

LB63 - get yourself an indoor outdoor digital thermometer. You should probably encase the wire to the sensor in silicone caulk or epoxy to make it more water proof. Mark the cord in 6" or 1 ft increments. For 4-5 ft of water, measure the surface to bottom temperature every 6" or every 1 ft. If the surface is more than 5F cooler than the bottom you have thermal stratification. Generally for ponds if the temperature drops more than 1F per 1ft you have pretty strong thermal stratification or layering, and then deepest water (8-20ft) often will not have dissolved oxygen UNLESS the water in that 5ft depth is clear (vis >2-2.5ft). At the top of the thermocline you will see 2-3F decrease in 2 ft. If the sunlight reaches the bottom in 4-5 ft of water, the plants will make oxygen at that depth, thus aeration is not needed because oxygen is on the bottom. Reason for aeration is to put DO on the bottom sediment-surface. Note: my definition for pond stratification is NOT the standard limnology definition of thermocline which is >1 deg C decrease per 1 meter. Some authors have defined the thermocline as the depth at which the temperature changes most rapidly and the thermocline (aka metalimnion) as the entire zone over which the temperature is changing rapidly. Thus the specific definition of thermocline depth is not always the same in every body of water. The thickness of the thermocline is variable from pond to lake. It is somewhat variable and depends on conditions. It is common in ponds for the thermocline layer to extend to the bottom.

For More info read through this thread:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=443810

Thanks Bill!

I will locate a thermometer and see what I find out!

Bill,
Went out to pond this morning and here is what I've got.

In the shallow end with muddy water ...visibility less than 1 foot and water about 6" low the temp readings are as follows:

84 at surface
84 at 1 foot
83 at 2 feet
82 at 3 feet
80 at 4 feet
79 at 5 feet

Deep end same water clarity..

84 at surface
84 at 1 foot
83 at 2 feet
83 at 3 feet
79 at 4 feet
73 at 5 feet
70 at 6 feet
69 at 7 feet
66 at bottom

Help please????

Hey, LB, I'm not Bill Cody, but I do have a few observations.

First, it appears that the thermocline is quite pronounced and starts around 3 or 4 feet. If that persists for a long period of time, you may have issues with anoxic water at the bottom.

Second, without diffusion or wave action, this will likely get worse as the water warms. My new pond has a standup pipe that drains from the bottom, for example. After it filled in March, the water coming out seemed perfectly fine. But by late April, as temps moved higher, I noticed a distinct nasty smell. The pond seemed okay, but the bottom layer was obviously no longer so.

I don't have electricity yet, and am working on it so can put in diffusers. But as anyone here will tell you, care must be taken not to overmix the anoxic bottom water too quickly, otherwise a fish kill might ensue. Sadly, the biggest fish are the first to die.

Good luck!

Thanks anthropic! I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a DIY aeration system. Pretty sure I need diffusers in the deep end just not sure about shallow part of pond.

Bill Cody,

What do you think?

Bill,
Went out to pond this morning and here is what I've got.

In the shallow end with muddy water ...visibility less than 1 foot and water about 6" low the temp readings are as follows:

84 at surface
84 at 1 foot
83 at 2 feet
82 at 3 feet
80 at 4 feet
79 at 5 feet

Deep end same water clarity..

84 at surface
84 at 1 foot
83 at 2 feet
83 at 3 feet
79 at 4 feet
73 at 5 feet
70 at 6 feet
69 at 7 feet
66 at bottom

Help please????

_________________________

LB - your temperature measurements to me indicate the shallow end would marginally benefit from some minor or low strength circulation since there is only a 5F difference between surface and 5 ft. At 4 ft the water is mixing pretty good or normally from wind and convection - IMO. Notice at the deep end at 5 ft deep there is clear stratification where the temperature difference is 9F and at 6ft the difference is 14F, indicating a pretty strong thermal stratification. No mixing occurs below 5.5-6ft deep in your pond unless there would be a significant weather event. This indicates the deep part of the pond would benefit most from bottom aeration. Depending on the size and location of the diffusers, this mixing and associated currents could easily expand into the water 3-4 ft deep to keep it more evenly mixed.

Water below 6ft deep at this point in time (May 31), likely has no DO or very little dissolved oxygen (1-3ppm). As the season progresses more oxygen will be lost in all the layer below 5.5-6ft. I guess it has not Do since your water clarity is only 12".

Your bottom temperature of 66F at 8ft deep indicates that your pond stopped mixing top to bottom this spring when the water 'reached' 66F; then DO loss began.

Bill,
That's kinda what I thought based on your last message. So would a surface aerator such as a kasco benefit my shallow end?

LB,

What Bill said right here is most important.

"Depending on the size and location of the diffusers, this mixing and associated currents could easily expand into the water 3-4 ft deep to keep it more evenly mixed."

With that said you may not have to do anything in the shallow end is what he is saying. With the exception of maybe in winter to keep ice off the pond if you get enough ice.

Think about what your diffusers do for a sec. Lets say you have 2 stations and 2 fusers on each station. Well diffusers pull water up from the bottom and push it up to the surface to get more oxygen well I think what Bill is trying to say here is in this pulling or upwelling of water if fusers are in right place in pond it could pull enough water from shallow area also to help mix it enough so you wouldn't have to do anything in the shallow area. Least I think that's what he meant... lol

RC

I am concerned about the island preventing mixing getting to the shallow end. Can't get a pic to load of pond and island....

I think I understand diffusers may not benefit me in the shallow end...however.... could I use them just to move some water hopefully to help with cooling and prevent stagnant looking water?

Yes of course it's not gonna hurt anything at all by putting 1 or 2 fusers in that area... Even if you don't run them all the time just when water looks a little funky? You wont get much benefit D.O. wise but you would get the benefit of your pond mixing some better and not looking like a bowl and pea green soup!!

RC

Actually and this is just me thinking... haha, if that shallow area is not real wide and only 3 to 5 feet and if it was close by the house I would experiment just for fun and pound a pole into the shallow end and setup a trolling motor on the pole with a big ole marine battery and let the trolling motor circulate your shallow water out towards your air diffusers... You would be surprised as how much water a trolling motor can move even set at like 2 or 3 it don't have to be on 5.

At first you would have to charge your battery up every couple days depending on how long you ran the trolling motor but you could eventually think about a solar panel if it works real well and you would want to keep it running. I don't know just me brain storming...

RC

Set a single diffuser in the shallow area to get some low cost water movement in that area. I did not know you had an island involved which is a good reason to not have an island. It blocks water flow/movement.

Thanks guys for all the help. I'm about to order a pump, diffusers, weighted line, and other stuff. Hoping to have things up and running asap. I will have pics if I can get them to load!

But thanks for everything so far.....I'm sure I will have more questions later!

Ok,

Got my Gast 0523 series pump. Made a manifold with ball valves, pressure gauge, etc......

Stupid question.... I see pics of pumps with filters and some without.... Why is that and do I need one?

I know....it all depends.....the pump will be in an enclosed box with ventilation and a fan.

Air intake filters help keep out any crud from going inside the compressor. Just like a car engine, (which is really just a big air pump), air compressors live longer when they are fed clean, dry air, and are housed in a well ventilated and cool environment. Yes, you won't see as much crud as a car engine, but there is still dust and bugs that go inside the cabinet.

Cool in pond aeration is as close to ambient temp as possible. That is why there are fans placed in cabinets to draw in and circulate outside air - to get rid of the warmer air that is inside the cabinets.

Essup,

This filter will go on the "in" port on the pump correct?

LB here is what your looking for.

Yes said filter goes on the intake side to keep anything from getting down in your pump.

RC 51,

Where did you get that filter?

Advanced auto parts!! LOL!!! I kid you not. It's a mini K&N filter for like a lawn mower or a mini bike... that and a band clamp and your good to go buddy!!

RC

Thank ya'll so much! Ya'll have been a great help!

Question,

Got the Gast pump wired up. No hoses or diffusers attached yet!
Got a 4 way manifold with valves. With only 1 open it seems to pump only a small amount of air. Is this normal? I know there is no resistance on the pump yet. Normal?

"only a small amount of air" how are you defining small amount? Is the pump new or used? A used pump may need new vanes which is why it might have been sold as a used pump. Do you have a good low pressure gauge (30psi) on the pump? PSI should easily build to 15-20psi. Do not completely restrict the air flow to cause 30+psi or the carbon vanes could break which is why we install an adjustable pressure relief valve.

New pump. I have my pressure gauge which goes up to 100 psi Between the out port on pump and the manifold. Gauge never gets off 0

Everything look ok?

I would change a couple of things with that setup:

1) Swap that gauge for a liquid filled gauge that reads 30 psi max. You should be only using the 0-7 psi range of the gauge and that 100 psi gauge won't give you a fine enough reading. Plus that gauge is not liquid filled and the needle will be bouncing all over the place. The liquid is to dampen the needle oscillations.

2) I would run a piece of rubber hose from the gauge to the manifold. The way you have it there is a lot of weight (relatively speaking) on the fittings as they are plumbed now, especially the 90° fitting out of the pump. It will most likely crack over time due to the vibration from the pump. Make a bracket and bolt the manifold to it, isolating it from the pump by the rubber hose to reduce stress on the connections.

Esshup is right, LB sorry I didn't mention that with the gauge. If you look back at my pic my gauge is from Bill Cody it's a liquid filled 30psi gauge. 100 is way to high like esshup said it will never register. I wonder if you could maybe zip tie a small 2x2 or 1x1 under that manifold for support? Just zip tie it around the wood and around the manifold itself to keep it from bending down eventually...

RC

Your pump is a model without the quite running head so it will sound noisy compared to others but it should function okay. Try this, take off the valve manifold and check to see if strong air flow comes out of the nipple after the gauge. If yes, there is an air blockage in the manifold. Or unscrew everything off the pump and verify you have strong air flow directly out of the pump. Note do not completely block all the air coming out of the pump. If it were mine, I would have a pressure relief valve installed before or after the air gauge as low cost insurance to protect the pump from over pressurizing and breaking the vanes. New vanes can be around $15-18 ea, there are 4 in that pump.

The sticker on the pump says it is wired for 220. Make sure you are running it at 220V or that it has been rewired for 110-115V operation.

If all the above checks are okay you and still have very little air that comes out of the outlet port. I would take off the front plate(aka face plate) by removing the 6 bolts and check to see if all 4 of the carbon vanes manually move/slide freely in the rotor slots. Reassemble and again check air flow.

That pump as I understand can run either 110 or 220. I am running it 110 now.
I just found a different pressure gauge 30 psi max and will try that tonight.

The 1/4hp Marathon motor on that pump can run 110 or 220 but it has to have the wires switched in the back of the motor according to the wiring diagram and chart on the motor. The 0523 comes wired 220 from the factory and needs to have wires moved for 110 operation. This is likely your problem. On that motor I have to move the brown and white wires for running it 110. PM me if you need help changing the wiring.

Some people also add a one-way valve to prevent backflow into the compressor when turned off.

Great news! Thanks to Bill Cody, the pump is re-wired for 110 and seems to be running correctly! Thank you Sir!

Hopefully will have pics and it up and running shortly!

Just an update hopefully with pics. System is running great so far. Got the system on a timer and up to 4 hours a night. FWIW, I also put a nite lite inside the housing unit so I could tell when the system turns on and off. Still got three more lines to run to the shallow diffusers ....but that will be in the spring. Water looks better than it ever has at this point in the summer! Thanks to all that helped..... cause i'm sure new to this!