I'd like to invest as little as possible on a bottom air diffuser system.
I have electricity within 30 yards inside my garage (where I could keep my pump and trench airline to the pond).
The pond is a small earth embankment pond that is about 14 feet deep and 30 yards by 30 yards in size.
I saw this pump on Auquatic Eco-Systems and I wonder if it will provide enough power. Any advie???
Here\'s the pump
You have approx .185 acre if my math is correct. I do not see what the cfm output of this pump is.It seems to be an import without a UL listing and a very limited warranty. Also I do not see what diffuser is being used. Try to find a pump with a 1.5 CFM rating like their fb109, it will not take much to turn your pond,Good luck Ted
Their site says that it's a "Deep Water Compressor" but it looks like an aquarium pump.
That gast compressor is a bit out of my price range. It is possible to go cheaper on this?
Originally posted by NyQuiLlama:
Their site says that it's a "Deep Water Compressor" but it looks like an aquarium pump.
That gast compressor is a bit out of my price range. It is possible to go cheaper on this?
I use the following 1/20th hp air compressor at .7 cfms for my 88 by 59 foot trout pond that is 9 feet deep. It produces good mixing in that size pond at that depth. I think it would be fine for your size pond.
http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/form/compress.htm For the compressor alone the price is $195.00 and it has a warranty. I run mine 24/7 from April to October. I believe this is a good price for a quality air compressor. Not sure what Tea lea Forevergreen offers but this is what I use.
I occasionally order from AES but they seem quite high in price on many items and Stoney Creek is much closer for shipping. I also know the owner personally.
I you are mechanically inclined. Go to the junk yard and get an air conditioner compressor from a car. Connect it (belt driven) to a 1/4hp motor. It should make enough air to mix your small pond cheaply.
Bill,
How efficient and dependable will this set up be? Will this be an example of penny wise pound foolish? If it was me I would spend a little more for a commercial unit.
Another good source is
http://www.candhsales.com They have a 1.5 cfm open flow compressor .39 cfm at 4psig that only draws 45 watts. The stock number is PC2050 and the cost is 39.95. I have done business with them for over 20 years and they are a great surplus electronics place. They also have many other Gast and other brand compressor motors of varying output for very reasonable prices.
Cecil - I never built one of these do-it yourself units; just heard about it. Since it is pretty cheap, a backup compressor would be a real good idea. I would think the electric motor would be pretty dependable and may not need a backup.
I'm not sure of the psi or cfm produced. I may check into this idea this summer with a car mechanic. I'm sure the air conditioner compressor has specs to give one an idea of what it can produce.
Bill,
Just a note .. The air cond. compressor is not oil-less. A very small amount of oil will end up in the pond.
Okay. Thanks for the tip. Then you would have to install an oil trap or filter to remove any oil as it enters the airline. How are car air conditioner compressors oiled? internally? As far as I know, Oil does not have to be added to them; at least I do not oil mine.
I also had a fellow use a compressor from a dehudimifier to run a pond diffuser. That did not use oil.
Bill, it is my understanding that car A/c is oiled by freon
Ok,
A/c & dehumidifier compressors need oil for lubrication. Refrigeration circuits of which the compressor is a part are hermetically sealed. The compressor is charged with oil at the factory. Unless there is a very serious refrigerant leak oil does not leave the ref. circuit and therefor it isn't necessary to add oil. Dehumidifier compressors are the same as a/c compressors.
Pumping air there will not be much oil loss but it could possibly be enough to cause problems in a small coi pond?
Dave,
Refrigerants (Freon is Dupont brand name) are solivents containing no lubrication properties. Manufactors have to match oils to specific refrigerants. If intrested I will elaborate but don't want to bore.
Would seem a lot easier to "bite the bullet" and purchase the correct pump or system and make your pond and fish "HAPPY" !! again just my 2 cents. Ted
Thanks for all of the feedback!
Assuming I use Bob's suggested pump...
found at the top of the page here. What would you folks recommend for an eqaully low cost diffuser and tubing??
It's not that I don't care about my fish/pond. It's just that I figure SOMETHING is better than NOTHING. Unfortunatly "SOMETHING" is all I can afford.
Here's my 2 cents. I have looked at alot of diferent cheap ideas for aerating, and have come to the conclusion that cheap is not always better. I have tried cheap compressors from garage sales, cheap compressors from motor shops, and have found that they dont last running 24/7. I did however try an air pump that came out of a septic aeration system, it is also the same type of pump that comes off an automotive engine for pumping air into the exhaust. The problem was that it was noisy even after I put it in an insulated box.
The point is I can't afford anything over $100 for the complete system. I want to do something to help the ecosystem and the best thing I can do right now is aerate. This means that either I can say "Oh, I can't afford a quality pump, so I won't aerate," or I can say, "there must be something I can do for under $100, anything is better than nothing."
Can anyone suggest tubing and a diffuser?
Thanks!
Here is another look at the pump that Bob suggested from the Gast website. It is #1532. Any thoughts on this pump for my application?
Gast Pump for $40
The 1532 would easily mix your pond. I have a Gast diaphragm compressor, .9 cfm at 10 psi. I run 300 feet of 1/2" poly connected to a weighted garden soaker hose. My pond is a little larger than yours and my Rainbows did well through a hot dry summer. I ran it 24/7 until the heat of summer and then only when air temps were cooler than the water temp, usually at night or cool cloudy days. Since I have trout, I have to be careful with warming the water and my system easily de-stratified my small pond. The $40 price tag is too good to pass up. 3/4" black poly water line is cheap as is the soaker hose. Should work excellent for you. Btw, the soaker hose idea was from Bob Koerber, some time ago. This may not apply to you, but it didn't create enough surface boil to keep an area ice free this winter. No suprise for me. John
John , i don't know how the heck you people handle winters up there, summer must fly. my hats off to ya.
Okay gang, I just ordered the $40 Gast Pump. Thanks for all the advice on that. Now I need to figure the best tubing and diffuser system to use.
My pump has a 1/8" female NPT output port. Does this mean I would need to use 1/8" tubing? Wood recommended using 3/4" tubing, would I need to increase the hose size from the port? I'm not sure where to look for these attachments.... would the hardware store have everything else I need if I just ordered 3/4" tubing?
Also, on the soaker hose, I have some. How long of a section should I cut? What about coiling it in a plastic bucket, filling the bottom with gravel, and sinking it to the bottom? Or, would it be best to but one of those fancy diffusers?
Thoughts and opinions are most welcome as I am a complete aeration newbie. Thanks!
I should also add that I live in Northern Wisconsin. I have about 30 trout (brookie and brown). I have several feet of ice over the pond right now. I hope the trout survived the winter.
Ny, I would buy an adapter fitting, 1/8 male to 1/2 or 3/4 female. The reason I suggested 3/4 poly line was to match your higher CFM compressor and to reduce air flow loss over long distances. If it is a short run to the pond from the comp. location, then 1/2" should be fine. Also purchase barb fittings (king nipples) that have 1/2" male pipe x 1/2" barb to fit into poly line and use a hose clamp. You will need a garden hose adapter at the soaker end to screw it on. I used a 16 foot soaker hose and suspended it off bottom with rope and javex bottles. Coiling it in a bucket may work well also, providing the hose does not kink and cut off air supply. You should look at putting an adjustable relief valve at the compressor end in case of blockage somewhere. This will require a few more fittings to adapt it. Hardware store should be able to supply everything for this job, or Revy if you have one there.
Hi Wood I have replaced my soaker hose with a tree soaking ring that I got from Home Depot, it already was in a circle and had all the fittings on it.
Thanks for all of the great help!
I'm curious however about the size of the bubbles from the soaker hose. I know that smaller bubbles move more water and add more air. And I've heard that larger bubbles are better for keeping ice off (it was debated in another thread, I'm not presenting this as a fact). Are the amount and size really that important? Would I be cutting the utility of my pump by using soaker hose or a tree watering ring as opposed to a mid-range membrane diffuser?
NQL - Basics of bubbles for aeration is smaller is best, but as the size of the bubbles is reduced to a certain point then diffuser clogging of the pores becomes an issue.
Two main things cause pore clogging. 1. Mineral deposits precipitate from the water at the pore location and 2. growth forms at, around, then over the pore. Growth is in the form of bacterial and or algae deposits. This happens even if air is coming out the holes 24/7.
Different materials clog at different rates and at different water chemistries and water clarities.
Quickest clogging materials we have found to be soaker hose then porus ceramic air stones. Slowest clogging materials have been flexable membrane diffusers. The more flexable diffuser "skin" the slower the clogging.
Clogging of the check valve at the diffuser can also be a problem based on structure and compostion of the check valve. To minimize problems and trouble free operation I recommend annual cleaning or at least annual inspection of the diffuser. .
have you soaker hose guys taken a piece of soaker hose, plugged one end, and blown thru it? It is amazing the amoung of psi needed. True diffusers have much less back pressure. It is easier on the compressor, allows greater flexibility of depth placement, and you can push more diffusers per compressor. This is just common sense info, but I would like to hear from someone who has tried it for more than a year to see what actually happens. We use a demo of a soaker tube and the Mix Air tube and have people blow thru them. I think I heard that you need 40 psi to go thru the soaker hose, but this seems high. I do believe that you would get a small bubble though, which is what you're after.
Robert B
Okay, so I'm gathering from the last two posts that the soaker hose method may not be the best place to skimp. Considering the huge cost savings on my compressor I'm thinking I could spend a few extra bucks on a membrane diffuser.
I'm looking at this, or something like it:
Membrane Diffuser from Aquatic Ecosystems Please let me know if that is a good product and if there are equally performing products for cheaper.
What I would do is run 30 yards underground of 1/2" black poly hose from home depot from the compressor in my garage to the bottom center of my pond. I would mount the diffuser in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket with a small hole for the hose to enter the side, near the bottom. I would put a few rocks around the diffuser on the bottom of the bucket to make sure it stays anchored. This way the diffuser won't get burried in the muck.
Does this plan sound like it would work?
Another question, since my pond is pretty muck-filled, should I use some bacteria to eat the muck right away? I think someone mentioned that you should run the diffuser for a few weeks to make sure that the water is full of DO before you send in the bacteria to eat. On what kind of schedule should I run the compressor?
Quick reveiw of my pond:
30 X 30 yards, round, 15 feet deep.
Fed by springs and a small runnoff creek.
30 Trout, brookie and brown.
Northern Wisconsin, cold.
You can kill your fish if you aerate a mucky pond too fast. They recommend running it a few hours a day for a while or suspending it off the bottom for awhile. I'm sure starting early spring will help. Maybe someone else who knows more can elaborate on this.
NQL - The diffuser will work good with your compressor. The surface boil should be noticable. If you run this continuous in your small pond I "think" it will probably end up killing your trout in the heat of the summer. Bottom aeration with trout can be tricky and it can get a little complicated in the summer months. You do NOT want to warm up the bottom water above what the trout can with stand or tolerate (my guess is no higher than 67-68F.). You may need some more advice from experienced trout raisers / pond owners who bottom aereate with trout in your climate/region with similar summer temps about the best approximate run times for the pump.
The amount or strength of inlet flow of spring water will have a big influence on warming or cooling of the bottom temps and pump run times. You should definately invest in a thermometer that can measure water temps at the bottom of your pond (discussed elsewhere in this forum). You always have to maintain the oxygenated and cool water refuge for the trout. Brook trout probably will be the first ones to show stress from elevated temps in the deep water. Also you should only run your pump/diffuser during the cooler periods of night so warming the water is minimized. I "GUESS" that you will need to run the pump about 2 to 3 hrs per night in mid-summer. At least that is where I would start. Not sure when the best time for start up in spring or summer is. It really is based on temps and DO at the bottom. Ideally you also need an oxygen meter to monitor oxygen levels at the bottom. However this is pricey ($300-$700), a high maintence item and probably out of your budget. There has been recent discussion of used / rebuilt oxygen meters that are moderatly priced.
Hopefully you will get more detailed experienced advice that what I have provided.
NQL, we expect for you to post a picture when you get it up and running. Glad we were able to help you out with getting a pump.
Bob
NQL -- If the spring or springs come into the pond at one end then you may want to place the diffuser at the opposite end of the pond.
Hey Everyone,
Thanks again for your wonderful advice. I have several plans for the pond which, once in place, I will take pictures and post here. One neat project is a point well that I'm driving about 40 yards away from the pond. I'm going to pump water into the pond to hopefully maintain a constant water level. I'm also going to plant some water lilies and other plants to beatify the pond and provide cover for the fishkies. IF you are interested, here is my other thread on pondboss...
A Bunch of Other Questions I can't tell you the exact temp of the pond, but I can tell you that even during HOT weeks in the summer it is COLD. The first two feet are usually pretty warm, but below that it is REALLY cold, which is the only evidence I have that the pond is spring fed. I'll get a thermometer to monitor the temp.
I know that brookies get pretty ill when it's warmer than 68F but I'm curious about the OPTIMAL temp for them during the summer.
Also, I take it that my bucket idea is okay?
Thanks again for all of your help. If you have anything else to add/share about my situation please let me know.
NQL - The standard 5 gal bucket may want to tip over on uneven bottom areas. I prefer a broader base. Think about buying a saucer shaped plastic water heater tray. Drill appropriate sized hole in the center, put diffuser port in hole thread on the hose barb fitting. Attack 2 or 3 bricks or equivlent weights to hold it on the bottom. The tray or kids snow saucer or equivalent provides a saucer basin that will not tip over yet it separates the diffuser from the sediment and slop. I can send you a picture of one or two examples.
Hey Bill, it sounds like a good idea, but a picture paints a thousand words. Can you email the pics to kory-at-gilderman.com where "-at-" = "@"
I'll host them and post them here with your permission.
NQL - My server would not send to your email with the address as I interpruted it. Send me an email (my profile) and I will reply.
Bill was kind enough to send me these pictures and advice, thanks Bill!
1st Pic is of two styles of diffuser base. Top one is using a child's snow saucer note the connedtion underneath. Typically the disk membrane diffusers have a 3/4" threaded fiting for the inlet port. For the bottom picture, he cut the end out of a barrel, mounted in on a tire and ran air in through tread of tire. Tire adds weight and acts like a sled and unit can be pulled into smaller ponds (1/4 -3/4 acre) with a rope. Leave rope atttached o base so it can be pulled out later for cleaning. Barrel base does not alow muck to move up through the tire when diffuser is operating.
The 2nd pic is inside and outside views of a water heater "drip" pan" as a base, but any other sinkable flat material, or tray, or saucer will also work. Personally I would mount it the opposite way shown in the picture. i.e. Bricks on bottom and diffuser on inside of concave portion so rim forms a low wall around the diffuser and helps keep out muck and sediment.
You want just enough weight to hold it on the bottom because you periodically need to remove it and clean it. You don't want it too heavy. Keep in mind that the membrane when under pressure will inflate somewhat and tend to be more bouyant.
I am thinking of using a plow disk set up like the water heater one. Used ones are free, already weighted, and come in different sizes. And free.
How about a garbage can lid weighted down?
Oil pans are cheap too.
I just got my gast pump in the mail and I'm a bit confused by the electrical connections. I know it's 115 amp, but there isn't a standard plug in. There are two black wires that go to a computer like connector and 3 other colored wires that look like they are supposed to connect to the capacitor that came with the pump. I don't know if you guys will be able to help from that description, I'll post pictures if that would help.
NQL - It sounds like you purchased a rocking piston pump. True? (NOTE- From the pics below it is not a rocking piston but some sort of smaller hp rotary unit). Capacitor wires often have special connectors that fit the posts of teh capacitor.
I can maybe help wire it post or send a photos showing all wires.
I'm not familiar with that motor. Maybe an electrician type can help. Why not try and contact the manufacturer.
Finally after browsing these boards for almost a year, I am able to offer some advice. According to your connection diagram, the blue and brown goto the Capacitor, the green wire is ground, the plain black wire is the "Hot" wire, and if you look closely at the other black wire, there is a small white stripe, this would be your common. If you buy a grounded extension chord you can cut off the end, splice it together with your pump wires and wirenuts, you should be good to go.
Ah, thanks WranglerMan, that was all the confidence I needed. I'll get 'er hooked up tonight.
Now, any advice on the other pump? My old well pump.
ManJ is right, don't forget that pump needs enclosed from the weather.
See there people, we all have talents and many are not fishy. Everyone can eventually contribute. Thanks Wranglerman.
T. Gottfredsen asked me for wiring help on an identical unit and my server would not deliver to his address. What gives Tim?
NQL - What is the hp of that unit and the cfm output?
Bill,
Are you taking about the gast pump or my old well pump that I want to use as a spitter
Good news gang,
I just wired it and ran 3/4' garden hose to the diffuser. It plugged it in and... IT WORKED! I have a nice little surface boil coming up in the middle my pond.
Now, in addition to my old well pump question I have one more question.
I bought two packages of "bacteria in a bag" from aquatic eco systems. How long should I aerate before I add the bacteria? Should I run it 24/7 right away?
Thanks to everyone for all of your help. This is a great forum. For only $60 I've got a nice silent pump running from my garage, aerating my pond. Me, and my trout thank you all!
NQL In the previous post, I was referring to the air pump.
In your case You can add bacteria any time now. At you latitude you pond has not stratified yet and you no doubt still have oxygen at the pond bottom. However you should first measure your water temerature. Many brands of bacteria do not work best in water less than 60F unless specifiec otherwise on the label.
Also at your latitude I would not think you would need to run your compressor 24/7. How big is your trout pond again?
Here's a few pictures of my pond Bill:
It's about 40' x 40'... 15' deep when I can keep it full.
On the air pump, it's .025 hp 1075 rpm 1.5 cfm.
On my well pump, any thoughts?
By the way, that wooden thing you see in the pictures is where I blocked the culvert and am going to put a tiny dock. This way I'll be able to get in and out of the water for swimming without disturbing too much muck and geting myself all full of it.
Just to the right of it you can see my new spillway which has the waterline running up it from the itsy-bitsy lower pool (where I have the water pump).
Glad to see it worked out for you. I have always had good luck with the company I sent you to.
Bob
Hey Bob,
Would you recommend using my old well pump extra water to pump water from the little pool on the other end of my spillway to the pond? Do you need more details on the pump? Please let me know, I have no idea on this.
It would probably work but well pump are not very good at passing debris and will probably clog up and burn up.
I have a filter over the intake, so nothing too huge will get sucked in. It does work, my real question is will it be economincal?
nql, great job. do you have a pic of the aerator in action/bubble action? also, sounds like you are trying to optimize your water into your pond. you are putting a lot of work on pumping the water from that small area to your main pond. i just had a quick suggestion. it doesn't look like you have a lot of runoff to your pond. but i do notice a gutter down spout on your porch area, but no gutters on your building closest to your pond. i thought maybe you could put gutters on it, then dig shallow trenches from the down spout exits, connect to plastic or pvc pipes and channel all that water to your pond. then cover up the pipe. you could maybe even converge all the pipes into a small area and have a nicely rock landscape area like a little waterfall or creek coming into your pond when it rains.
NYQUILLAMA
i received my bottom diffuser yesterday,how did you anchor your system to the bottom of the pond.it did not look like what i thought it would,i thought it would be in some type of case that i would sink to the bottom.thanks.
this small pump is actually creating a small surface boil 14' from the bottom?
Could you post some pics of this in action NyQuil?
This sounds like just the trick for my small pond also, since it's only about 10' deep and about 30'-40' in diameter!
Yes, the pump really is doing it. I have some pictures, I just need to host and post.
Methods of anchoring the diffuser to the bottom were actually discussed earlier in this very thread. Personally, I used a large planter bottom and some sakcrete for my base. I took pix of that too. I'll post them tonight.
Just purchased the same Gast pump (2050) for my small 1/3 acre pond. NyQuiLlama, you say you used a "large planter bottom and some sakcrete for my base." Is this easy to remove for service? Can you post some pictures or email me some pictures at msdog88@yahoo.com? I'm struggling trying to come up with an easy way to secure the diffuser to the bottom and yet make it easy to remove for service.
Would you still recommend the FlexAir 9" disc diffuser? I haven't purchased this yet... still trying to figure everything out.
Thanks for any help you could give me.
TB
I'm going to be using the same compressor as TB, Ny and others to aerate one of my ponds. I've listed some information below and will report back with the results when the system is running.
Pond: kidney shaped, average depth 10', estimated volume is 300,000 gallons.
Compressor: Gast Model 1532, 1.5 CFM open flow, 1 CFM @10 psi
Airline: 50' of 1/2" weighted poly tubing for each diffuser.
Diffusers: 2 - FlexAir 9" EPDM rubber disc, 0.5 mm slits. Surface area 0.4 sq. ft. Design flow 0.5 - 5.0 scfm.
There is no data on turnover rate for the diffuser however, from everything I've read here I'm confident it will work.
Just a follow up: Tested both diffusers the other day. The compressor will not handle both diffusers simultaneously. One diffuser is set at 8', the other at 11'. Each diffuser operates at 4 psi and according to manufacturer's data, the compressor is putting out 1.25 cfm. I'm happy with the results.
Russ
I have the gast rotary vane as a second pump, which I will use on my 1/3 acre pond to alternate with the larger one I bought before I found C & H. As Bob said, it is VERY low current draw for the cfm/psi combo.
