Hi all,

I have an irrigation pond on my ranch that is used to irrigate the horse pastures. The water is green and the bottom is mucky and I would like to fix that. I understand that aeration will help (as might beneficial bacteria but they need aeration to work right), so I thought I would put in a system but after trying to research it my head is spinning. So I thought I would ask some experts (who aren't trying to sell me anything) what they recommend

Here's my pond situation: It is about 65x30 feet, sort of kidney shaped, about 6 feet at the deepest and its made of concrete and fed by municipal water. There are two drains that stick up about two feet above the bottom - they are at one end of the pond and they go to the irrigation lines, and on the same end is the water inlet which is a 4" pipe about a foot above the surface of the water. The only fish are little tadpole looking things.

4 years ago the water was very clear - but the bottom muck was starting to cover the drains to the irrigation lines and there was so much of whatever kind of plant was in there that it was restricting the space available for water. So we emptied it and took out the plants and the muck (which in hindsight was probably not the right thing to do) and now we have green water and the muck is about 8" deep. (The muck is probably at least partially caused by the fact that some previous owner planted a pine tree and several pepper trees next to the pond and they shed into the pond)

So, any help regarding what kind of aeration system (including brand names and size) I should put in there would be really appreciated. Like everyone, I want to spend as little as possible but I want it to work :-) I could do a DIY system if it were really easy and someone told me exactly what to get for this pond and how to hook it up.

Also any advice about adding back in plants that won't grow too big but would keep the water clean would be great, or any other suggestions anyone might have would be great too. (A reminder - I can't put chemicals in there because it is used for irrigating pastuer for the horses)

Thanks in advance for the help!

Just a question, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to empty it every so often and clean it then to aerate it? Since the pond/tank is concrete and there are no fish in it.

It isn't possible to get any kind of tractor in there, if that's what you had in mind. Last time a company was hired to suck the muck out and it cost thousands, and the water has been green ever since. With the help of some knowledgable folks on this forum (come on guys, that's your cue!) I'm hoping to get an aeration system for a lot less than that.

Casey, have you looked at a 2" or 3" gasoline powered trash pump? While an aeration system is needed, I think you'll only see a reduction of an inch or 2 per year of the muck with the aeration and bacteria. I honestly don't think that aeration and bacteria will keep up with the amount of organic matter that is entering the pond.

Do you have an area that you can flood with the muck laden water?

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into renting one to see if it is feasible, though it would help to be able to see the bottom to use it :-) so maybe someone could give me some recommendations on aeration?

Call Sue Cruz at Vertex. She the best, and she is as honest as them come.

Furthermore, their aeration disks are the best in the industry. I'll bet a single two disk system would provide enough aeration to get your O2 levels as high as needed.

I am going to get my aeration system from her, so I am putting my money where my mouth is on this one.

Your pond is 0.04 acres essentially a big cement water lily pond. I think a good investment for you would be a 3" dia trash pump (Honda probably most trouble free). Use it to pump out sludge after periodic pond draining every 2-3 yrs.
Since the pond is so small consider a lower cost do-it-yourself aeration system for this pond. This will allow you money in your budget for buying the trash pump and hoses. It will not take a lot of 'heavy duty' big-pond mixing to circulate this small shallow pond to keep it destratified. I will look for the thread form several here that describe a lower cost aerator - see below.

Here is a bunch of homework on RC51's aeration system. He put his in a much larger pond than yours so one similar to it should work well for you. IMO 3/8" tubing should be okay for your small pond if you dont have over 100ft of tubing. Weighted tubing is more expensive but quick and easy for less trouble and more convenience.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=228629#Post228629
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=227750#Post227750
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=228882#Post228882
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=245867#Post245867
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=232597#Post232597
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=248108#Post248108

Your green water is due to unused nutrients. Many here try hard to get green water like you now have. Maybe add some plants such a water hyacinth if legal in CA. Compost excess plants for mulch and fertilizer. Hyacinth float so they are easy to see and remove.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/hyacinth.html
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/aqua010.html

Water hyacinth in public water bodies are consider problematic, but they can be beneficial for removing unwanted and excess nutrients form the water thus increasing water clarity. That is what most vascular plants do in water, they remove nutrients for their growth thus purifying the water. Each plant specie has pros and cons.

Hey Bill I apprecaite your work on your post above! I know you would not have taken the time to do what you did if you did not think I had a fairly decent D.I.Y. system. Is it the best system out there? No it's not but it's a great do it yourself system that really does work quite well. My system is still working great for me and we have been in some serious drought conditions for the past 2 to 3 months. I know the gentlemen above does not want to use it for fish but I know a lot of my fish would have been dead for sure by now without this air station running. My pond almost looks like I drained it on purpose to do work on it it's so low. Casey this system will work for you if you want to put some work into yourself my pond is near 1 acre and it's worked for me just fine for the past 3 years. I will send you a P.M. on some other instructions / ideas also in case you want to go this route. Good luck!

Thanks for those links, it actually looks like it might be fun to build my own, but sadly I'm one overwhelmed lady and I have too many projects and too little time already :-)
Can someone recommend some good reasonably priced (like under $400?) pre-built systems (or a DIY with pre-built components that will take say 15 minutes to put together) that will work for my little roughly 30,000 gallon pond?
Thanks!
Oh and thanks for the plant suggestions too. I will look into whether it's OK to do in my area, especially as we already compost the horse manure so tossing in the plants if they grow too much would no problem.

Note to all. The EcoPlus7 air pump has an air pressure rating of 5.1psi. This means it will produce air down to 10ft deep maximum. Operating at the 10ft depth forces the pump to operate under maximum conditions (stress) while it is running. IMO this will shorten its useful 'life span'. The pump will last longer if it has to only push air 6-8ft deep. Generally the deeper a pump operates the less air volume it is able to produce compared to the 'open' air flow.

Mr. Cody is correct as he is most of the time! This pump is a decent pump and it works for me in 8 to 10 feet of water. Keep in mind what I just said. (It works for me) that doesn't mean if you go out and by this pump it will work great for you too?? YOu just never know until you try it. The system I put together is just that put together by a rookie (myself) for me, I have no obligations or money involed with Eco 7 so please don't think that there arent better pumps out there cause I am sure there are. I guess what I am trying to say is just like Mr. Cody says (It all depends) on your situation and everything else pondom. So when I say this pump has worked good for me I have no ties at all just letting everyone here know how well of a job it's done for me and that it COULD do the same for you. I have about 350 bucks tied up in my whole system. Heck most pumps alone are more than that so for the small do it yourself pond guy it's worth giving it a try and see what happens.

thanks,

The other thing to consider about all models of these Eco-Plus pumps is I don't think rebuild kits are available for them when the diaphragm goes bad. I have a small version of this pump and I was told rebuild kits were not available.

Hey Bill I believe your right about the kits, but I can also buy this pump online for about a 100 dollar bill. Mine is going on 3.5 years old now so if it makes it 5 years and I have to buy another one I'm good with that. 100 bucks every 5 years for a new pump that's hard to beat. Of course it would more than likely pan out. As a gast pump I am sure would last 10 to 15 years before you have to do anything to it. Pump choice for me was all about initial cost. Now that I have everything setup if my pump goes bad and I can find a good Gast pump for the price I just may go that direction. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I agree RC, my ecoplus 5 is over 4 years old, best $70 bucks I ever spent. If it ever dies I will get the larger ecoplus7.

If one of these pumps fit your small pond needs you couldn't get any more bang for your buck, at these prices it's disposable and your still way ahead!!

So if the Eco 7 is good to 10 feet, what would be a good affordable pump to 15 feet? If you get a pump larger then necessary do you get a bigger "boil" or no?

I am not qualified to give aeration advice - BUT - I would not trust a "disposable" air pump to save my Texas heat and drought prone fish from a fish kill!

An "affordable" air pump would be one that would protect my expensive fish.
Having experienced one really bad fish kill and one partial fish kill in ten years from Texas record heat and droughts, I have become a "belt and suspenders" guy.
I rely long term on Gast rotary vane air pump bottom diffuser system and Kasco surface aerator for emergency use.

My CC and HBG are not as expensive as your HSB (kidding). OK so just a good pump for 15 feet?

I have heard alot of good things about the Gast pumps you mentioned in terms of reliability and durabilty. I'm trying to understand the size of pump needed per given depth of water and how that's determined. And is bigger then that actually better or does the output plateau and the rest is just overkill?

Then why do you need aeration?

No aeration in our 1/4 acre pond and NEVER had a fish kill - possible with good management to control over population.
Produces quality HSB and CNBG.

I would rely strictly on Bill Cody's advice on Gast pumps - size of pump needed per given depth of water and how that's determined.

His first response wll be, "It all depends"

There's more to sizing a pump than just depth of water. Length of air hose and amount of diffusers count too. A larger pump will run more efficiently if it's less strained and not running to capacity. You can only get so much boil out of a diffuser, a larger pump will will not give you a larger boil. Ted at ForeverGreen (advertises here on the forum) can set you up nicely.

I bought my Gast pump from an online Septic pump store first and Ted helped me build the rest of the system. Vertex makes the Cadillac of diffusers. I was lucky the pump I purchased ahead of time was sufficient to run the system that I wanted.

I wanted a rotary vane pump for less maintenance, good durability and they are relatively quiet. This is the one I have: http://www.gastmfg.com/support_documents/STD463rA.pdf and it runs my XL5 nicely at 13' deep, I don't remember the length of run.


http://www.gastmfg.com/product_overview_compressors_pumps.aspx

It all depends. George1 told you so. Usually a larger pump if it has more cfm will produce will produce a larger boil because with more cfm it can operate more or larger diffusers thus more bubbles spread out to a larger rising column of water. To push air out at 15ft one needs at least 7.5 psi. More psi ability of the pump means that the pump strains less to produce air at that depth. Less strain of the pump usually means less friction on the bearings and a longer motor life.

Aeration is not just about preventing a fish kill but most importantly it is about keeping dissolved oxygen on the bottom sediments allowing rapid and efficient clean decay of the muck and sludge from the surface sediment down. With DO at the surface sediments lots of aerobic bacterial and invertebrates live there eating and breaking down the organics on the bottom. Many of these "bugs" serve in the food chain as fish food. When the bottom top sediment looses DO it converts to anaerobic decay which has 20-30 times slower decomposition and results in methane, acidic conditions and producion of hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs smell) in the water and sediments which is the black septic sediments common to many ponds.

I'm very fortunate to also not have had a fish kill in my 1/4 acre TX pond in this painfully hot, dry August. But honestly I keep waiting for it. It has that rotten egg smell and a stagnant appearance on these windless days. So I'm going to use it as one part in a system to improve water quality.

I absolutely would have aeration in 1/4 acre pond but it's a quarter mile from electricity so do the best with what I've got...does pretty well in fact - syphon spillway system flushed nutrients very good with spring rain but has me worried with all these 105 degree temp days...!

IMO you can't have too much aeration. I wouldn't mind having another Vertex XL5 (5 diffuser heads) and my pond is only 1/4 S.A.! I think adding bacteria is key too. From looking at pictures online it looks like water treatment facilities use much more aeration than your average pond owner, I'm sure cost is a factor. While looking for my pump I learned that septic tanks can be aerated and in fact it's code in some states. Further reducing the solids before going into a leach field will greatly lengthen it's life, reduce problems and benefit the environment. I wish Michigan would get on the bandwagon with this.

Fishfrank, here's my pump ratings:
MODEL AT05 SERIES
10 PSI MAX. PRESSURE CONTINUOUS DUTY
15 PSI MAX. PRESSURE INTERMITTENT DUTY
4.8 CFM OPEN FLOW

At 13' deep my pump is running at about 10 PSI with the Vertex XL5 but before I had my pond re-dug, just a couple of feet, it was running much lower. It's been almost 2 years since I re-dug and I don't see any muck yet or FA. I hope this helps.

Just to clarify a little here when AP said "disposable" I believe he meant the price was right for the pump. So right in fact you could have an extra brand new one on your shelf and not spend any time trying to fix your pump. Just plug another in and go. Your higher priced pump is going to go bad also just a matter of when. I live right above you George in Arkansas, and we have had triple digit temps for the past 2 months now and no rain hardly at all, and my pond is a good 3 feet low right now and I have not had a fish kill. Each to his own of course but lets not take things out of context here. Just because the price is right enough to just replace it when needed doesn't mean it's a cheap no good pump and not trust worthy any more then a 500 dollar pump is. Expensive doesn't always equal better I've learned that the hard way.

More evaluations and testomony of the Eco 7 are needed. Long term use and average life span for producing air at 8'-10' deep are sort of unknowns to most of us. So far so good for the Eco7. I think the pump is a very economical pump and pretty good for shallow, small ponds and small aquaculture situations where depth is not an issue. IMO the shallower the pond the longer the life spawn will be for these pumps. Number of hours operated each year will also affect how long the pump lasts. In the north where we typically aerate from April to November 5-8 hrs a day, I am starting to see rebuilds needed for the Gast rotary vane pumps after 10-18 yrs of service. I have one local pump still going on the 1st set of vanes after 19yrs - sold it in April of 1993 for $260.

RC makes a good point - since the Eco7 is low cost, have a second one on the self as a 'back-up'.

That's exactly what I meant, if aeration is critical in your pond having a back-up really makes sense. If it's not rebuildable then it's disposable, that doesn't make it a bad pump.

My pump runs 24-7 from Nov.-April, and during the summer it runs at night being connected to a thermostat.
It's a matter of application , my pond is maximum of 8 ft. so the linear pump works fine for me, if my pond was deep and larger I would probably use a Gast style.

Thomas brand (Gardner Denver Thomas) also makes good air compresors for those people interested in air compressors.

I saw a few people asking about the needed PSI at different depths:

Quoted from http://www.pondowner.com/2007/06/air-diffuser-placement.html