First of all, if Purina hadn't screwed things up in their supply chain earlier this year, this probably would have never come about. I couldn't get Aquamax just like a majority of other people, and I was looking for an alternative. Matt Rayl of American Pond and Lake Management in Russiaville, In. and I have been working together on a number of things this year, and he told me about this new food. I had to bug him for about 2 months before I even got some.

I use my personal pond as a test bed for different things. After all, if I screw up and kill fish, I won’t have an irate customer to deal with; I will only be kicking myself in the butt for screwing up.

I've heard a lot of things said about the food, and for me, it required a paradigm shift in my thinking. There are many different facets that go into pond fish food that we don't even think about, and some of those were made very apparent to me the first time I fed the fish in my pond the food.

Some of the things that I was told are:
1) Food composition can be tweaked by the ingredients to make fish more resistant to high stress events that might kill them, like low Oxygen levels in ponds. These things don’t have to be listed on the label.
2) Pellet size and even shape will have an effect on how fish feed on them.
3) Better quality food will mean better water quality.
4) Fish food can be specifically tailored for a fish species – it’s not a “one food feeds all fish the best” scenario. “You wouldn’t feed your dog a steady diet of cat food, would you?”

Well, without going into a lot of detail about those 4 points, #1 and #2 are definitely true in my observation.

I witnessed a fishkill due to an oxygen crash in a pond where different foods were being tested on fish in cages. Fish in cages that were fed the Optimal food had approximately (by my observations) 70% less mortality than fish in the other cages.

The fish in my pond wouldn't even look at the Optimal food for 3 days, started pecking at it slowly, then started eating it like the AM600 that I was feeding previously. A month later when I got a bag of AM600, they would swim past it to eat the Optimal food. As far as I can tell, that was strictly due to pellet shape and size. Fish get conditioned to a certain size of pellet as Sprkplug can attest to. I have 5-6 pound LMB that won't touch AM Largemouth pellets, again due to pellet size and conditioning, but they eat all the AM600 that they could get. They are now eating the Optimal food too...

So, it’s off to the races with the new food.
I've been running the feed test in fish cages in my pond, in addition to feeding the fish in my pond the food. The test was the new Optimal Bluegill fish food vs. Aquamax 500 vs. Sportsman’s Choice Trophy Fish Food (made by Cargill) that is available from Tractor Supply. I really, really wish that I could have gotten some of the Cargill food that y'all in Texas are feeding, and I would have run that in the test as well.
The results are pretty amazing, and I will have pictures and information for everyone shortly. I know Bruce is doing some testing as well, and I would hope that he chimes in here too, as the results that he is getting are even more apparent than mine.





Here's the test:
3 fish cages each 2’ x 4’ x 4’ deep.
Hybrid Bluegills are the fish in the cages. Starting size was 9.5#/1000 or 0.152 oz. per fish average weight.
Matt brought over a bunch of fish; they were divided equally between all three cages.
Each cage has a feed ring to contain the floating food. Cage material is 3/16” square plastic mesh. Each cage has a net on top to prevent predation by Blue Herons.
Fish are fed once per day at 6 pm. Test was performed starting on July 8th 2015. This fish sample was collected on Sept 8, 2015. There were two days during the test where the fish were not fed in the evening due to time constraints.
This sample was collected by running the dip net through the cage, and taking an average representative sample of 10 fish from the 100 or so fish that were in the dip net. The rest of the fish in the dip net were returned to the cage.
Fish in cage 1 were fed Sportsman’s Choice Trophy Fish Food mfg. by Cargill and sold in Tractor Supply Stores
Fish in cage 2 were fed Purina Aquamax Sportfish 500 and was purchased from the local feed store
Fish in cage 3 were fed Optimal Bluegill fish food from the calibration run of feed
Each cage was fed the same amount of food by weight every day. The amount of food fed to each cage was not changed from start of the test to September 8th. The amount of food that each cage was fed was 4 ounces per day.
Fish in cage 1 average length was 2 ¼” and weighed an average of 0.097 oz. per fish.
Fish in cage 2 average length was 3 1/8” and weighed an average of 0.297 oz. per fish.
Fish in cage 3 average length was 4 3/16” and weighed an average of 0.802 oz. per fish.
Fish mortality in the cages was about the same, i.e. approximately 3-6 fish per cage per week. There was no apparent cause of the mortality, and each cage saw approximately the same mortality rate.

All I know is that I'm sold on the Optimal Bluegill food.

I didn't feed the fish to optimize growth, I fed the fish like I feed the fish in my pond, a "supplemental" amount of food. I only fed once per day because that's all I had time for, and it was a chore to make sure I was home to feed them. On the days that I knew I would be gone, I had the neighbor feed them.

The official "launch" of the food will be next year. The shipping/supply bugs are being worked out now, but there is some food available now. As of this moment, there are no fancy fish food bags, they are plain white. The food comes in a 40# bag, and the target price is $45 per bag, delivered via FedEx.

The people that are making the food are open to input. The calibration feed looked like a worm, it was approx. 1/8" or slightly smaller in diameter, and anywhere from 3/8" to 3/4" long. The input from the calibration food was that it was too small, and didn't throw by hand out into the pond well, and when put in a feeder, it didn't throw it as far either.

They changed their extruding dies, and now the feed is approx. 3/16" in diameter by 1/2" in length. Both Matt and I think that is too big, so they are going to reduce the size and find a happy medium. After all, this food is supposed to be feeding 3"-6" BG. A pleasant surprise happened when the calibration feed was used in ponds with RES. They started feeding on the pellets. Both Catmandoo and Bruce noticed this, so I feel this is more of a "Sunfish" food than a "Bluegill" food.

There you go, everyone who has been wondering about all the hype. I'm sold on the Optimal, and it will be my exclusive BG feed next year. It took my fish a few days to warm up to it, but once they did the feeding response was incredible. I think the new pellet might be a tad large, especially for smaller bluegills so hopefully they will shrink it back down some. Maybe cut the length down.

I was impressed with what I saw when feeding the stuff. And more than that, I'm genuinely excited at what the future may hold in store. Haven't experienced that level of anticipation in awhile, and it feels good. Going to spend these upcoming colder months putting a new plan together, and Optimal will certainly play a prominent role. Looking forward to it. Finally.

Scott (Esshup),

Does that $45.00 per bag include shipping? My guess is no but I'd be elated if it did!

Btw does this stuff have a name? Optimal?

Scott, thanks so much for your research and report. I'm just starting out and Optimal sounds like it might be just the ticket for CNBG and even RES.

Look forward to reports from other users as well. Do you know if there is any way those of us in east Texas might get our hands on some?

Cecil, that price does include shipping. Optimal Bluegill Food is it's name.

anthropic, it can be ordered and shipped via FedEx now, and if a few guys want to get together, or if someone uses more than a bag or 4 per month, there are ways in place to ship 1/2 (24 bag) and full (48 bag) pallets for less shipping costs to the consumer than individual bag shipping costs.

One of the biggest hurdles before this was unveiled was the capability to have this food available to all pond owners in the continental USA, not just the lucky ones that were in a certain area. Matt has spent a considerable amount of time researching different shipping methods, and has worked out a deal with FedEx for shipping individual bags. 1/2 and full pallets can be shipped via truck, but it has to go to a commercial address, or I believe at least an address where a fork lift, tractor with forks, etc. is available. If a lift gate is required on the truck, the shipping costs for half and full pallets approach individual bag costs.

Sprkplug, it's my understanding that the diameter will be increased over the food that you tried, but smaller than the most recent production run. Also, while the length can be shortened, we think that at least some of the attraction to the food from a fish perspective is due to the elongated length, vs. a round shape. I personally believe that is why RES are more attracted to it as it might mimic more of an "invertebrate" form.

I read a comparison study of 4 fish foods....two were the Cargill's, one was AM 500...and I can't remember the forth. The AM500 outgrew the rest...one of the Cargill's was close.

Point being that if you outgrew AM 500, and another study showed AM500 outgrows the Cargill feeds...then you outgrew the Cargill feed.

Sean

Great stuff Scott. Thanks for posting.

I will testify to what it has done for Bruce's RES. I have a new .6 acre pond. In it I have 350 RES and clouds upon clouds of FHM. No other game fish other than RES. It is RES Haven. You can barely run a net thru the pond without catching a FHM. And an endless supply of snails. Well Bruce was kind enough to let me have the 350 RES from his stock. The majority of them were the biggest ones in the batch. They have been in my pond for 12-14 mos. now and they are doing incredible, as you can imagine. I was shocked by the relative weights and condition of my fish when I sampled them this spring. UNTIL....... I saw Bruce's RES that he had pellet trained on Optimal. The contrast is unbelievable. The weight on some of them is at least 50% larger. And the coloration is remarkable. It was shocking to me.

Well done Scott.

That makes sense.

You can count me in as soon as I use up what I have!

If you have the shipping figured out... I am in for a bag.

Sean

Scott,

Please pass on my congrat's to Matt and the whole team of scientists behind this endeavor. It is so cool to see risk takers and scientists succeed together!

My BG's and GSF whaled on Optimal all summer and now with the price/shipping all figured out.... Myself and my small network of pond owners here in MN will all be feeding Optimal next season.

Once again...Great Job sirs!!!

Jeff

This is very interesting. And thank you Scott for doing the research.
Does this also mean that there is a RES formula? Also, is there, or will there be, a different formula for YP? What about SMB? I just have one feeder, and want to feed RES, YP, and SMB.. Could I assume that this BG formula will get the same results with the mentioned species? Those results are amazing. Not even close. What could possibly be the downside of switching from AM500 to this?
Thx
Jeff

So am I.

By the way, Scott, does Optimal also prolong life for the BG?

Now I need to remember another acronym... OBF?

Thanks guys. I'm just a small cog in the gearbox. I want to give everybody that had the test food a big thanks from the guys for your input and feedback. Getting the shipping figured out was a HUGE step in the right direction. As you know all too well, if you can't get the food it doesn't matter how good it is.

Setterguy, I can't answer the switching food question, and all I know is that this food is formulated for "sunfish", where RES, CNBG, HBG, BG and PS all fall into that category. I switched from feeding Aquamax 600, and I believe it's the same formulation as Aquamax 500, just a different pellet size. I was told that different fish species have different food requirements from a Recirculating Aquaculture System standpoint, and that Largemouth Bass and Rainbow Trout both need different feeds, as do Bluegills, Tilapia, Catfish, etc.. Do LMB and SMB need different feeds? I don't know the answer but my gut feeling says that the food for SMB/LMB probably will be the same formulation. Do LMB and HSB need different food in a RAS system? I don't know. What about Yellow Perch? Again, I don't know.

For the halibut, I am feeding some 6" HSB this food in a cage. (again, my pond, my test, if I kill them then it's a learning experience and I won't have a client mad at me.) They have been eating it for about 10-12 weeks now, and seem to be doing O.K. I haven't pulled out any fish to check on them, so I have no idea how they are growing, but I'm not seeing an abnormal amount of dead fish either. Is it the best food for them? I have no idea I just wanted to see how they'd do on food that isn't "specifically for them".

I can see the next question coming. "Well then, how do I feed my fish in the pond if I have a lot of different species that I want to feed?" Again, I don't know, but knowing what little I do about the guys formulating the feed, I wouldn't be surprised if they can come up with a specific food taste that might not be palatable to Yellow Perch, but LMB might love it (for instance). At this point in time, I really don't know the answer to that question.

MNfish, I know you have had great success with the feeding response - IIRC you called it fish cocaine with regards to how the GSF ate it.

Catmandoo had RES eating it and the RES weren't pellet trained.

The LMB in my pond wouldn't touch the stuff, but after a week they are eating it just like they did with the AM600, but that's just the pellet trained ones. I believe they didn't eat it right away because of the pellet size/shape. Tony might have something to say about fish preferences in regards to pellet size/shape.

But remember, the goal for this particular formulation is to grow Bluegills/Sunfish. The guys that are making the food make a LOT of different blends of food for the RAS industry. Some of their specialty food is pricey - IIRC I heard $4/lb tossed around, and that's before any shipping is figured in.

Will there be other feed formulas in the future? I hope so, and I think so. Without saying more than I'm supposed to, the 3 principles behind the food have in excess of 75 years of experience behind them.

When Matt talked to them, they had no idea that fish pellets were being used to feed fish in ponds. The fish pond side of things is all new to them, and they are going into this without a lot of pre-conceived notions, none of this "we've always done it this way and it's worked" type of thing.

For the aquaculture industry, they feed fish, then dissect the fish, examining internal organs, do blood tests on fish, monitor water quality, etc., etc. For aquaculture, they said that it's a waste of food and $$ to have food going to make fat, or have food not get eaten and have water filtration issues. I can see that being applied to ponds as well. I have seen excess food create FA problems in ponds (mine!).

Time will tell. I really wish that this was the beginning of the feeding season rather then the end, but I AM looking forward to the results that people will be seeing this time next year.

Thanks again Scott for the addl info.
I realize it's formulated for panfish. However, I'm feeding AM 500 to the YP. Would it be any more oriented for YP than this new feed?
Just a thought..

I honestly don't know.

Really wished you could have gotten the Cargill 4512 into the test instead of the TSC stuff. Maybe next time

shouldn't the cargill media relations people be made aware of the pictures in posting above on this forum? Not that there is anything wrong with doing side by side comparisons of 3 different feeds in a controlled environment as esshup is doing (I appreciate his work and feel his methods are very scientific) but, if I was on the media relations team for Cargill and got this snapshot emailed to me...and knew that my fish was the top fish in the mugshot above, I would be scrambling to censor that picture. That poor top fish in the picture above looks like it was not given ANY food

The pictures and difference in feed are striking!

How can a big company like cargill that presumedly has access to good fish food making science and expertise produce a product that works so poorly?

I agree Pat, You know our fish love that stuff!!

That's the 17-20$ stuff that's not even in the running with their 4512, 45%pro-12% fat

I am performing two fish feeding trials using green sunfish (GSF) and yellow perch (YP) fed Aquamax and Optimal foods.

These are the results for feeding green sunfish(GSF) the Aquamax 600 and the Optimal Fish foods for the first six weeks of my feeding trial. Starting sizes for body length of GSF in both groups ranged from 2.625” to 3.25”. GSF were sourced from my pond using traps.

Twenty five GSF were placed into separate fish cages. Cage 1 fish were fed Aquamax and fish in Cage 2 were fed Optimal. Both fish foods were hydrated prior to feeding because some of the fish appeared to be too small to eat the dried pellets. Pellets were hydrated and chopped into smaller pieces prior to feeding. Fish in both cages were fed daily to the point of satiation.

At the end of six weeks all the GSF were sampled. The 23 GSF as a group (two died) eating Aquamax gained a total of 24.2495” (615.93mm) which converts to an average 0.970” (24.63mm) gain per fish.
The 25 GSF as a group eating Optimal gained a total of 32.74” (831.6mm) which converts to an average 1.423” (36.16mm) gain per fish. Not all fish gained equally in length.

After six weeks the GSF body lengths for the Aquamax group ranged from 3.0” to 4.75”. Body lengths for Optimal food were 2.75” to 5.06”.

At the end of six weeks half of the GSF from the Aquamax group were placed in a separate cage and are being fed Optimal. The other half of the GSF eating Aquamax are still being fed Aquamax. The plan of splitting the Aquamax fish into two groups was to see if the half now eating Optimum will out perform those still eating Aquamax. The caged GSF eating Optimal are still being fed Optimal.

My feed trial study will conclude when the water temperature drops to 60F around the first week of October.

The feed trial with YP has not been sampled. Preliminary results do not appear to be as good as those with GSF. More perch have died in the Optimal cage compared to the Aquamax cage. Matt Rayl says his nutritionists are saying the optimum diet for YP is different compared to sunfish. Supposedly yellow perch diet is more similar to salt water fish than the sunfish diet. Matt Rayl's fish food group consists of fish nutritionists and fish physiologists. The nutritionists develop the diets and the physiologists analyze the fish for overall health condition. I think since Optimal nutritionists have had good experience developing food for feeding recirculating aquaculture yellow perch, they will eventually produce a specialty food for YP and hybrid striped bass.

I should mention that our HBG, LMB, YP, and HSB were all slow on the take with the Optimal. The BG fed aggressively after 4-5 days, the HBG after 9 days, the YP took almost two weeks, and the LMB and HSB never did show the enthusiasm they do with AQ.

The HBG are doing pretty good on the Ziegler Silver stuff I have and there are some chunky brutes down there.

It would be interesting to try some of this new feed when I pull them inside for the winter.

I'll have a lot of it available here, probably next week. I have had many inquiring on how and where to get some...

Thanks to Scott, I got in touch with Matt and have some on the way. If anyone here in NE wants to try some and doesn't already have some I'd be willing to let them have a few pounds.

Btw Matt comes across as one of the most acomadating people you'll ever talk to. And did his best to talk on my level. Which can't be easy with his vast knowledge.

Tony, I saw the same thing with the LMB in my pond. But, that was with the Optimal calibration food, which is a small size "worm" shape compared to the AM600 pellet. Now that I'm feeding the newer food which is a larger size, that feeding response has changed to the same response as with AM600 food.

Pat, when the water warms up next spring here, I'll trade you a bag of the Optimal for a bag of the Cargill 4512 that you are using, and run the test again.

This study showed that AM 500 outgrew Cargill 4512. So if the new feed is outgrowing AM500...then it is outgrowing Cargill 4512. It also showed that 4010 outgrows 4512.

Reading this study is why I use AM500.

Sean

http://lakework.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Bluegill-Feed-Trials.pdf

No indication of date on Greg's study. I assume that it was relatively recent.

Dave, I'm guessing 2013 by the intern period. Great study, but I'm thinking the Aquamax numbers would be different today.

And IIRC, the current Cargill 1/8' has less than 40% protein right now.

I'm waiting on a reply from Cargill as we speak.

I doubt I'll change from Cargill at this point, because I'm happy with the 4512, but I really like the Optimal evals because of who's doing it. I trust these guys to make a fair and informed decision, and will go so far as to say Tony wouldn't feed free fish food if it didn't achieve the goals he's after. That's about all you can ask of anybody that raises fish.

I've never addressed the Purina issues because I quit feeding it several years ago, but the various problems might turn out to be a very good thing. An opening in any market drives competition, and competition "should" result in more testing, and better products. Optimal seeing an opening in the market is a perfect example of that.

IIRC Gregs study was presented at the PB conference in 2013.

I still don't have a working feeder, so I have no idea why I'm reading about the differences in fish food..
The AquaPro folks still haven't decided what to do about my broken feeder.
Sent me a battery, did not help, then sent a timer, that didn't help, now they want me to take it apart and try I new wiring harness to the motors. (After I empty it, and haul it back to the barn.) my back is totally shot right now, so I'm just a little upset with them.
I guess it's worked about 20 to 30 days.,
Ok, rant and hijack over.. Sorry about that.

That's one of the reasons why I sell and recommend TH feeders.................

I know!! You keep rubbing it in.. Haha! Just kidding. Actually, I just don't want anyone else to make the same mistake I did.

As a long-time user and promoter of Purina products, I find this to be a very fascinating thread.

My experience is as follows:

Years ago, I needed a feed to support a huge population of hybrid striped bass. I began to purchase bags of Aquamax. The product was consistent and reliable. It wasn't hard to order, and my fish grew relatively rapidly on it.

After a period of time in which I introduced Aquamax diet to several different species, including bluegill, hybrid striped bass, redear sunfish and channel catfish, I began to suspect that there were some systemic stressors in the food. After fileting some of the bluegill that had been raised on Aquamax, I noticed white colored livers, and a lot of tissue in the abdominal cavity that was different than I was used to. I also found that fish that ate Aquamax grew well and survived well as long as there were other components to their diet, such as fish or invertebrates. But the fish that were subsisting entirely on Aquamax appeared to "top off" at a certain size. After lengthy discussions with experts in the field, there was a general conclusion that part of the process to create the feed may be limiting the fish's ability to live long lives. I never saw ANY scientific data to support or refute these concepts. All evidence was anecdotal, but seemingly consistent between all experts that I talked to.

A couple of years ago, I became a little disenfranchised by the fact that Purina was using my image, and some videos to promote their product, but were very content that I was paying more for their product than anybody else I knew. Apparently there is some type of tear in the fabric of the universe that makes feed more expensive in Lincoln, Nebraska than anywhere else in the world. I am not a person who lives by entitlement, but I still thought maybe there could be some sort of process that would allow me to get fish food for the same price as everybody else, instead of more....but that's another story.

This spring I had some difficulty acquiring my Purina Aquamax, and when I did finally receive it, it looked entirely different. It smelled different, it floated different, and it left no slick on the water. Instead of the inside of the bag smelling like fish, it smelled like burnt toast.

About that time I was contacted by Matt Rayl to try some new feed that he was helping to formulate. I took two identical cages of age-1 redear sunfish, and have been feeding one cage the Purina Aquamax, and the other cage has been getting the Optimal.

I am still in the process of assessing the relative growth rates. I realize there are many factors that affect growth rates--both short and long term--but I will say that after about 10 weeks, the palatability of the Optimal appears extremely good and the growth rates are currently significantly higher with the Optimal. I'm hoping to eventually sacrifice some of these fish to test the livers and other internal organs for signs of disease.

Again, I hope everybody realizes the definition of the term ANECDOTAL...but currently the Optimal feed seems to deliver significantly higher growth rates, better coloration, and more aggressive feedings. Obviously there is no way at ten weeks to really tell what the long term ramifications are. Let's just say I'm VERY OPTIMISTIC that there is a strong new player in the field. Perhaps the folks at Purina can tell us why the new feed smells like burnt toast instead of oily ocean fish. I've even noticed that when you broadcast the new Aquamax that there is no surface slick like I've been seeing for years.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really care who has the best product...I just want to be feeding it to my fish. Life goes by way to fast to not feed the best product. Let's hope that ultimately both products thrive and continue to try to produce the best and healthiest possible fish feed.

Optimal fish.

Bruce.

Was told by two very knowledgeable people in the industry that Purina farmed out the manufacture of their feed on a regular basis. That could explain why there seemed to be a variation in appearence.

The fact that no one that I am aware of from Purina has ever come on this website to promote their product, or respond to questions doesn't say a lot for them.

That said I've had pretty decent luck with their product in the past but did notice the fatty livers as did a few of my aquaculture colleages.

I look forward to getting a formulation for my trout as even feeding them once a day caused them to be built like toads.

I wonder if there will be a trickle down (up?) affect of the optimal. That is, will bass that eat bluegill, that ate optimal, be larger...

Sean

This is awesome. Would you mind posting the raw data, please? I would like to run some stats on it and make a chart.

I would say this is highly likely.

I've seen good results with AQ, but my gut tells me something just isn't quite "right"? I don't have the experience or knowledge to pin down what it is, but I feel like the majority of my fish hit a size where progress slows dramatically. Just to be absolutely clear, I have no evidence or data to support this assumption, just observation.

I am comfortable in claiming that the new AQ smells differently, and like Bruce I also do not see the slick on the water that I'm used to. I also think it hydrates differently, in that it appears to take much longer. The pellet center stays harder, longer.

I am curious,

Are the label stated ingredients and protein, lipds, etc. numbers the same as the old AQ?

My question is: do bluegill that grow faster also mature and breed faster? I think that's true, to a degree at least. Experts.....

I'm confident the answer will include the phrase "it depends"
Cmm

Current AQ500 tag: (#3) Notice the bottom where it states "Manufactured for Purina Animal Nutrition LLC"



Past AQ500 tags, from the first AQ anomaly back in 2012. Original tag on the right, (#1) confusing newer tag on the left (#2)



If anyone's interested, the debate from 2012 can be found here: http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=305270&page=1

Not trying to imply anything one way or the other, just posting for comparison.

Interesting the new tag does not have fish meal as the first ingredient. The wife says if the dog food bag does not have an animal protein as the first ingredient not to buy it. She says that indicates the animal protein is secondary in quantity.

Cecil, the new tag is in the top photo, and does have fish meal listed as the first ingredient. The bottom photo shows tags from back in 2012 when the first concerns arose. Sorry for the confusion, didn't do a very good job of explaining that...my bad.

I think the surface water oil slick from the Purina feed was coming from an oil, probably fish oil formulation, that was sprayed on the pellets to impart, A. fish odor, and B. fishy flavor to make the food more palatable.

It will be very interesting and educational to hear the results and hopefully pictures of the fish dissection when Bruce sacrifices one of his test subjects. I suspect that this "test" has already been done by the Optimal fish physiologists when developing the initial trial food formula for feed trial tests of fish grown in recirculating aquaculture systems. This is what physiologists do as part of their job description. If a lack of "white colored livers, and a lot of tissue in the abdominal cavity" is absent, then I suspect Optimal will allow pond fish to live longer and ultimately grow to larger sizes which is one of the goals of the new Optimal food for sunfish.

As on the 'inside track' for this new fish food, I have been told in dealing with this new Optimal food that fish meal is not all the same. There are numerous grades of fish meal, similar to many other products especially food stuffs. Some fish meal is cheap, low quality, 'junky' stuff and not all that healthy for fish growth and digestibility. Because it is fish meal does not make it a quality food product for growing healthy fish. Also when really highly experienced with ingredients required for growing fish, there unique vitamins and minerals usually present in natural foods eaten by fish that make a big difference in final quality of a healthy fish. Knowing about and using these premium ingredients is what separates average, good, and superior food products. Using these specialized ingredients can be very important for the health and life span of the specific animal that is being raised.

Great points being raised in this thread. As far as lifespan or longevity, has anyone had extended experience with the Optimal? My understanding from communicating with others is that we're all pretty much on the same timeframe. I'm both curious and excited to see what the future brings in this regard. In the meantime, opened my last bags of AQ yesterday. Hopefully It will see me through until feeding ceases for the year, but I have my doubts. I really want to start Optimal fresh next spring, with a clean slate, so I'm trying to hold off switching over to it full time until then.

Tony, if you run short, I might be down your way in a month or so. If not, shipping is an option too.

Thanks Scott. Just for comparison, I dug out the receipt for the AQ. This was a few weeks ago so things might've changed, but it was right at $42 a bag, me picking it up at the dealer. Even thought the OBF is 10 lbs lighter, at $45 per delivered it's a no brainer. I hope production is ready, as I have a feeling this stuff will be very popular.

Maybe I missed it but whit whom do we place our order?

Esshup

Scott,
Awesome work by you again! But did I miss something, or will the TH feeder throw this feed?

Mike, they throw it just fine.

I contacted Matt a few weeks ago and ordered some Optimal Bluegill fish food. It arrived Monday and was packaged very well. For six weeks I had been feeding Aquamax in my FHM/RES only pond. I had never noticed a RES hit the surface or an aquamax pellet. Monday night I switched from Aquamax to Optimal. Tuesday night I noticed a dozen or more RES hit the surface. Although I'm not 100% certain they are hitting the pellets rather than the FHM, I think I can assume they are as I've never seen them hit FHM before. I hope to verify they are feeding on pellets this evening. If so, I have to say I'm shocked. RES are notorious for being very difficult to feed train. And here I have RES in a pond full of food items such as snails and FHM, and they feed trained within 2 feedings. That seems absolutely amazing to me. I'm hoping this is an answer to creating trophy RES fisheries. Cautiously very optimistic at this time.

Whoa. This could be really cool! Any chance for video or photos?

I'll work on it.

Planning on doing a little testing on my dad's bluegill pond. Throw a half cup of Aquamax off of one side of the dock and another cup half full of Optimal off the other side of the dock. I will take video after one week of this.

I got half a pallet of feed on my first order....Even late in the season I may need to order in more for customers.

That's right Rex, don't run out before you bring my YP and bag of feed lol

Cmm

I have a bag showing up tomorrow, can't wait to try it out on my RES.

Our RES fed on the Optimal as well.

A production run was completed today, and the pellet size was changed. After some consultation with some of the Optimal Feed users, the new production run has 3 different sized "pellets" in it. Here's what the new pellet sizes look like:


There's 3 different sized pellets in the bags, and once all the existing food is sold, any new feed will be this. There isn't much of the previous production run food left, I have less than half a pallet and half of that is already spoken for.

For people that ordered half and full pallets, the new production run is slated to ship starting on Friday.

Just as a reminder, this food is designed to feed Bluegills and all other sunfish (which in turn will feed the predatory fish that feed on them). I have been feeding HSB and other fish in cages Optimal, and the LMB/SMB/YP/RES/BG/CC, etc. in my pond Optimal food for a while. All the fish seem to be doing great, but I have a feeling that next year there will be another formulation that is more tailored to the top end predator fish in the pond.....

That's another thing that I like about this company - they LISTEN to the people who are using their food, and continually change to make the food the best on the market.

Pic of AM 500 next to current run of optimal..

The newest production run of Optimal is approximately .040" smaller in diameter than the one that you pictured, and approximately .040" larger in diameter than the initial run. Tony, the initial run is the food that you had.

I've started using the new configuration and my fish are absolutely going nuts over it. Very very impressive! I thought perhaps I would see a day or two lag based on the slightly different look and size, but no such problems.

Bruce, you're feeding production run #2 and the new pellet size (3 sizes in one bag) is production run #3.

I think the third run has the bases pretty well covered. Very enthusiastically looking toward next season.

Also, I appreciate the company working WITH us to fine tune the product. After what I've gotten used to as of late with other suppliers, this is very refreshing.

I'm requesting a video of their feeding Shorty!

I didn't hydrate the optimal feed in time the other day so fed it to them dry right out of the bag. Didn't seem to make a difference.

Springer Spaniels sure seem to love it....

Sean

You don't have to tell me about it. Mine will almost be deep enough in the water to swim picking up the pellets from the water....

It actually looks pretty tasty.

I wonder if you can vacuum pack portions and sell it to the doomsdayers as survivalist food

I've been told if one is hungry enough one will eat just about anything.

Haven't seen a dog yet that doesn't like fish feed!

After 6 weeks of attempting to feed train my RES on Aquamax 500 and observing no pellet strikes, on day 10 of feeding Optimal I observed 102 strikes in 15 min on a half cup feeding. Impressive stuff. Well done guys.

Very similar to my observations. So far every single result has been positive. I'm very excited for next year.

Yep!

I have quite a few RES eating Aquamax this year but really look forward to trying the Optimal food out. This is the first year I have seen good numbers of RES and SMB going after the Aquamax.

there will be another formulation that is more tailored to the top end predator fish in the pond..... wink grin

Man, I can't wait for this. With my Blue cats in my large pond now, I may have to make a run east to pick up a large order of the 'predator' feed.

When that comes to production, that will be shippable too.

I really like how the shipping was worked out as a fixed price of $45.00 per bag including shipping to any place in the continental US. They had to do some serious number crunching to pull that off!!!

As a bump, and if anyone is interested in this feed, you can order it from here: Hoosier Pond Pros

I heard through the grapevine today (I'm not on Facebook) that one of the members here who has been feeding Optimal for a few months did a comparison between Aquamax and Optimal. He found out that 40# of Optimal was the equivalent to 60# of Aquamax.

I just ordered two bags. Thanks for info, JKB! Don't have fish stocked yet, but should be very soon so I'll need to feed...

My plan is to hit HPP up in the spring for some. I would really like my non-pellet trained SF to start hitting pellets. I realize there is no guarantee but, I figure it's worth a try, even if only some go for it.

Thank you for the order!!

You'll get a FedEx tracking number as soon as it's generated.

esshup, I am thinking of the Optimal for feeding my CNBG this winter. After seeing some of the reports here on BG growth with Optimal, I am thinking that, if my fish reduce their intake of fish food during our winter here, the Optimal may help to add weight even at less fish food intake or feedings, compared to the Cargill's 4512.(Optimal out performed Purina that out performed Cargill's) I have only this past winter for observation or comparison to this upcoming winter on my pond. Last yr (2015) my water temp hit 42 for a short time of maybe two weeks around Feb the 22nd but the rest of the winter (Dec through Feb) it held at or around 51 degrees at what I might call a normal winter here. The 51 degree water hit @ or around the end of November. I am thinking I will harvest some Tilapia @ or around that time and then start the Optimal feeding. I am hoping to add weight through the winter months using the Optimal. I should have some HSB in the pond by then, so I am guessing I will be feeding them the Cargil's feed, but will wait on Overton's fishery to make their HSB feeding recommendations.
Question, How long does it take to get the Optimal after placing an order? and do you think Optimal will out perform the other fish food during our winter months?

Thanks

Tracy

I I just got a couple of bags. It's a little more $$ than the AM500, but not too bad.
I'm hoping the YP, will adapt to it. I know it's a BG formula, but I thought I'd give it a try.
Besides, I have HBG in the pond now. Along with some HSB, and SMB. (From Rex)

Tracy:

I honestly don't know how it will perform vs. the Cargill that you are feeding now, I can't get that formula up here. Next year I'll run another feed test with that specific Cargill formula - I'll either bring up a bag with me if I'm down there, or have one shipped up here. It's too late in the year now for us up here to do a test, the water is cooling down fast.

I heard from Matt this morning. He talked to someone that also did a feed test with LMB. They cut open the LMB and the livers of the Optimal fed (yes, this was the BG food) were red, the LMB that were fed the other food had white fatty livers. Growth was about the same.

One of the goals for developing the new Optimal fish food was NOT to produce exceptionally faster growing fish but to produce healthier fish with longer life spans, especially for the sunfishes. If your fish are healthier and live longer eating an artificial pellet they will ultimately grow larger compared to dying prematurely at less than their potential maximum size.

So far early feeding studies of the Optimal fish food for sunfish are showing the fish also grow better eating Optimal compared to other better quality high protein fish foods. Growing better and longer live spans; that is a win, win benefit.

I've kinda shared my Optimal story on here already. Essentially I have a RES only pond in which they are in heaven. 350 RES in a pond full of snails and FHM. As mentioned above, I tried feed training them on Aquamax but mostly fed it to the FHM. With Optimal the RES are now feeding on it vigorously, even with the decreasing water temps. I can't recommend this food enough for RES and feed training.

Haven't heard from them yet, Scott. Don't know if I did something wrong or there is some holdup elsewhere.

Have searched this thread and somehow am missing one thing. Is this optimal feed floating? And how long does it stay afloat. Is it part floating and part sinking?

Yes. Mine lasts for at least 5 min and is usually eaten by that poine.

I could be wrong, but I think the Optimal folks make their feed float with a different method than Purina. This same method in turn may be why the feed is less harmful to the fish's livers. Again could be wrong on this. But I am hopeful that this is one of the issues that is been sorted out.

The Zeigler Silver I have, most of it will float for a good day or so, but by then it expands quite a bit, but still floats. Could be the fat?

Water has been in the 40's for a while now. I blocked off the inlet to the sump so the feed won't get sucked in. Every morning I toss some in and it's gone when I get home. Nothing in the sump, so they have to still be eating it. I haven't seen a HBG in weeks now. There are quite a few places to hide and I see the inside bottom of some 4" PVC pipe is really clean compared to the sediment all over everything. I think they like my randomness of dropping in PVC pipe sections.

Last HBG I saw was a brute!, so I'll just let them do their thing until I tuck them away in the basement for the winter.

I ordered a bag of Optimal (latest run stuff with the 3 sizes) going on 2 weeks ago. Was told back then it might be ready to ship sometime this week. I said no problem, not in a big hurry.
See how it works with YP.

Thanks for the info JKB. I didn't now this was coming out with multiple sizes in the same bag. To me that is a huge plus and makes me want to order it even more next spring. Being able to feed multiple size classes is one of the main reason I am feeding my current chow.

I'd like to see some starter feed sizes I can use for my own hatched fish, as they become larger in size, and of course large enough to feed my large yellow perch.

Matt is delivering fish (I think he spent the last 3 days from sunup to past sundown stocking fish) and he said he would get to boxing and shipping later on this week. That's the food going to Haughton?

No clue as to the consistency, but maybe just grind it up in a blender?

It's floating, and if it isn't eaten, I've seen it float for close to 12 hours.

I've tried that and it was a PITA to feed a lot of fish. Also the starter feeds are usually much higher in protein and lipids, which smaller fish need.

Cecil, there IS some starter feed that they make already for the Aquaculture market. It's a lot more expensive than the Optimal Sunfish food, but that's because of the ingredients that are used. I think I had a quart bag here and I may have put it in the freezer to keep longer.

I think that starter food was around $5/lb.

I'll have to check to see if there's any of the newest production run food here in Indiana. Here's a picture of the newest production run that has the 3 different sizes in the same bag:

Is there a phone number to call to order this food? I would like to talk to a person before I order. Who do we ask for. Is it someone here on the forum? I already have others interested in the product here in Texas.

Call Scott (esshup) at: http://www.hoosierpondpros.com/
Phone number is on the site.

That's the man to talk to.

Flame, good talking to you tonight. I'm getting a PM together to send to you in a bit.

Thanks for update! Yeah, I live in Haughton, LA, though the pond is in Texas.

Starting feeding Optimal today and after the 30 sec get to know me session they were aggressively hitting it.Thanks Scott for the prompt service

Hey, Scott. It's been two weeks since I ordered and still have no notice from Fed Ex. Getting a little nervous since stocking is coming soon, probably a few days after the blessed rains.

Should I call someone? Any info?

Thanks. I really would like to give Optimal a try on my new pond!

Still MIA and I sent in a USPS money order.

Check your PM.

Since you were coming down for fish, I was going to give you the bag then and refund the shipping $.

But, I'll tell Matt to ship it.

I was not aware of that plan. I thought it was shipping from the factory.

Thanks so much, Scott. Glad to hear they are already shipped!

I am really looking forward to seeing how my newly stocked CNBG, FHM, and especially RES react! Bob Lusk is my pond consultant and will watching closely, too.

Hey, Scott. Got a quick question for you at PM.

Thanks...

Frank

The half and full pallets are shipped direct, the individual bags are shipped here from Indiana.

PM sent. Looking at the tracking number, it will arrive Monday.

Any idea on shipping cost for half or full pallets to SC Nebraska?

PM sent

FWIW I have been watching this thread with interest. From my limited experience, IMHO Purina has enjoyed top status for a long time do to their ability to distribute a reasonably good product at a reasonable price. As far as I can figure, there are other foods out there that are as good or better but cost of distribution is always where they fall short. If this new chow can jump that cost effective distribution hurdle, it could change the market.

Thanks, Scott. Came in today. Pond finally got enough rain to make a big difference, too.

How did the boxes look? Still attached together? Beat up bad?

This year is a learning year for different shipping techniques.

Scott, the cardboard boxes are a little beat up, but they are attached quite well. I opened them up and the feed bags look in great shape. I'm sure the feed got squashed a little, but from the looks of things damage is minimal.

Question: How long does it stay good for? A month, a few months, half a year? Hopefully we'll run out soon after stocking, but I'm curious.

If you look on the bag, there should be a "use by" date. I was told that the date is really about 3-4 months earlier than when it really needs to be used because of different holding temps. i.e. Northern ponds vs. southern ponds. Hotter temps degrade the vitamin package faster. The date on the bag is worst case.

any updates on fish size?

With the cool temps here, I don't have anything further to report. (Well, the 30-40 mph winds did blow the cage with the Optimal HBG into the pier, and it tore part of the mesh loose from the cage. I don't know how many are now swimming around in the pond... )

I have seven YOY RES in my aquarium that have been converted over to eating Optimal in a "crumble" form. I made them go cold turkey on the blood worms and night crawlers that I was feeding them, they gave me "the fin" for a solid week and they still act like they despise but their attitude is improving.

Sorry to hear that Scott. Been there done that with ice and dropping a fish into the pond when removing them from the cage. I've finally come to the conclusion that if I don't want fish from a cage in a pond, the cage has to be in another pond.

Man I hate it when they give you the "fin!" Makes you think that you abused them or something. My one and only GSF was accidentally caught this summer...he gave me both fins when I turned him back! He was one pissed off fish!

"The Fin" needs to be archived in the classics

That's why I use my pond as a test bed. I don't have clients mad at me that way for screwing up their pond. They'll have to swim fast to avoid the LMB.

You just think the wind blew the cage into the pier. Never underestimate the determination of HBG.

Still feeding Optimal about 6sec once a day from two feeders.Colder temps in North Mississippi so kinda expect activity to slow down more and more over next two weeks...

So far been happy with dispersion from TH feeders and aggressiveness.

Just an FYI, I have been trying the Optimal feed in my cheap Moultrie Feedcaster 30 gallon feeder and it works very well. I struggled with the feeder plugging with Aquamax 600, but so far it seems to handle Optimal much better. In fact, it seems to throw it farther and easier.

That is good to know.

I tested some larger fish food pellets today in the TH feeder. Approximately 9.5mm, actual size was running from .375" to .490"

The TH feeder threw the pellets without any further adjustment. Another piece to the puzzle of the Carnivore food.

Trying to figure out the largest pellet that the TH feeder can reliably throw without any irreversible changes required to it.

My Moultrie struggled with AMax 600 during periods of high humidity. So I suppose the TH may have similar issues with the carnivore food if you push the limits of size too much. 9.5mm seems HUGE. That would be awesome.

Definition of irreversible?

Something that doesn't require a reciprocating saw, hole saw or tin snips to adjust.

Things that probably 50% of the pond owners don't want to do, or can't do.

If it requires some adjusting or changing out of the spin plate, or something easy like that, then it's no big deal.

I'm wondering how waterproof the Optimal bags are. I'm headed to place in a few hours and it'll be raining all the way by the looks of the forecast. I guess I could put the bags in trash bags.

I'm guessing they're more waterproof than most feedbags, but I'd cover them up.

Would anyone be willing to post the tag for this feed? I am wondering what the protein and fat content is. Thanks

Just curious if anybody else had ordered optimal from the optimal website? I ordered two bags a couple days ago and have never received any conformation of my order or shipping. Is this normal or should I be trying to contact someone through the website?

ozarkfisher...I carry optimal and will be in Little Rock/Keo tomorrow as part of a run delivering Optimal, Texas Hunter feeders and some fishies.

NEDOC, TH feeders do not suffer the humidity problems of creating sticky food on the spinner plates that "deer" feeders will always have. Deer feeders leave pellets exposed to morning fog on the pond where TH Feeders have the feed/spinner plate recessed deeply into a dead air cavity so high humidity/fog is almost a non issue entirely. Plus, the blower unit on TH feeders run after pellets are stopped from dropping to clear almost all residual feed in the chute.

Rainman, Thanks for the offer If I was in town I would probably meet you. I actually just received a confirmation of my order through my email. I was just beginning to get worried since I had not heard of anyone else ordering straight from optimal's website.

I was in the same situation. Contacted them today via their website to inquire about lack of order confirmation, order status and shipping/delivery details. Within an hour I received an order confirmation, but no order update or delivery information.

Same here, I ordered a bag from the Optimal website, got a confirmation of the order but that's all, no scheduled delivery or tracking number. After a week of nothing I went back to the site and found no phone number there. Emailed a few times the next week and still no response. Finally got an email on the day the order arrived, over 3wks from day I placed the order. I'll be ordering from elsewhere, next time. No excuse for poor communication with the customer.

Hey guys sorry to here that .. Making new warehouses to help with shipping ..so maybe something happened .. But can Lponds and ozarks private message me so I can fix and then correct the issue ..
Matt Rayl with Optimal

Working with Matt last year was great for me. He even texted to stay in touch and sent a picture when my order was shipped. Stick with him. Best customer service I have ever experienced in any business.

Welcome to PONDBOSS Optimal MATT!! Very nice user name by the way

Many of us are looking forward to using the optimal product. Having several locations and distribution options is good news. So far it sounds like going through a reseller like esshups store is the most reliable way to get confirmation and knowing the product will be shipped promptly with tracking. If there is a central place to order that then feeds various distribution warehouses, please let us know. It would seem shipping once from a warehouse would save money versus shipping to resellers.

Can't wait to try it myself! (first need to confirm that my RES actually made it through the first 2 winters

(also there has been some questions recently on content and labels. Will the new bags have product info labels with breakdown of percentage fat, protein etc?) Thanks!!

Matt's no stranger to some of us. He's a Fishery pro and a good one. Had a beer or 2 with him at PB1 in Arlington quite a while back.

Welcome back Matt.

I've run through about 20 bags of Optimal so far and Scott @ Hoosier Ponds has been very prompt getting them to North MS for me.

Pretty good ice fisherman also.

Anyone figured out how much Optimal a TH feeder throws per second? I know with the AM 500 it was 8 oz. every 6 seconds.

Brian, it will vary with how far down the feed plate is adjusted from the bottom of the feed hopper. Further down (away) from the hopper and it will throw more food.

The correct way to measure the distance is a royal PITA. You measure from the bottom of the hopper to the bottom of the flat part of the spin plate. With the lip on the spin plate, it is very hard to measure.

Just a FYI. I used a trash bag to catch and with Texas Hunters feeder and plate set at factory, it still threw 8oz in 6 seconds for the Optimal. Same amount/weight as the AM 500 in 6 seconds. I thought it would be less, but I still have about 25% AM500 mixed in, so not 100% sure, but will check again when all the AM500 is out.

I wouldn't think IF your feeder was empty....just put 2 or 3 weighed pounds in the feeder, turn it on once, then just scoop out and weigh what is left in the hopper and weigh the leftover,

Good idea. IF there was power there, use a shop vac.....

Gonna' dust off the soapbox this evening, so be warned. I've been feeding Optimal all year, and seeing great results. The fish have responded well, and since I find myself feeding a larger amount than I had anticipated, I ran out and had to reorder. The new product arrived this evening, and I was eager to get back into a normal routine....been out for three days.

Unfortunately, I was dismayed to discover the "old" Optimal my fish had grown accustomed too, is apparently no more? This new stuff has different sized pellets, one being absolutely huge by my standards, and one approx. the size of AQ500. What gives? Why, why do feed manufacturers keep fiddling, adjusting and tweaking? I understand the need to keep abreast and continue product enhancement, I really do. But al least continue the "old" stuff for those who don't want multiple sized pellets, partially sinking food, or a product heavy enough to be thrown by a mechanical feeder. I don't want any of that stuff....I already know what works for my fish, and the latest and greatest trend does not interest me in the least.

I also realize that producing multiple sizes of feed, like AQ does, costs money. I would gladly pay more for the product I want. Just give me the option to purchase it. As it is, my bluegills, both the hybrids and the northerns, consumed the small pellets and rejected the larger stuff. It floated up to shore. Maybe they will learn to eat it, I certainly hope so. But will the benefit obtained by feeding a great product be lessened, by having to wait a month for the fish to learn to eat it???

Rant over, sliding soapbox back under bed.

Tony, the reason for the change in feed size is that people were complaining that it didn't throw far enough when put in the automatic fish feeders. Some wanted small pellets, most wanted big pellets.

The orders didn't warrant running 10 tons of each size, so the machine was set to make all 3 sizes at the same time. So to try and address everybody's wants, all 3 sizes were put in the same bag. They will learn to eat it, give them a few days. The recipe didn't change a bit.

Talk to TJ. Convince him that smaller pellets are better. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you want another bag of the smaller stuff, let me know. I will be making a run to Arkansas next week, and swinging near Jasonville on the way back to stock some fish. I have one bag of the original size left, and was saving it to feed train some fingerling RES. Well, let me back up a bit. Originally the first run was one size and it was small - maybe .093" dia and around 1/2" long. Next run was larger, around .187" dia and 1/2" long. You know what the 3 sizes in one bag are.

BUT, I have access to some even smaller food now.

I'm trying to convince them to make pellets for carnivores that are barely small enough to be thrown in a TH feeder. That would be in the 8mm-9mm range. But, I need to get a 20,000# order to get them to run 'em. I DO have some 9mm LMB feed that I am waiting to try in the TH feeder. Unfortunately, it showed up at my door right after I filled it with 80# of feed........

Tony, if you want the old sized feed, I can inquire what it would cost. They have a small mill, and can do custom runs as small as 100#. But don't expect the price per pound to be anywhere near the price per pound in a 20,000# run.

Pond feed is a teeny tiny part of their business, it's geared towards aquaculture, both fresh and salt water. Many, many different recipes and sizes. I think I have 5 - 7 different recipes and sizes here. Different blends for different species and different sizes too.

I'm willing to pay more, but I doubt I can justify the cost for a few hundred pounds of the original stuff. And I appreciate the offer on the last remaining bag of the smaller pellet, but it would only prolong the inevitable. Hopefully, they will decide to eat the new size. Hopefully.




Smaller pellets ARE sooooooo much better.....heck, maybe they can simply compress a 40 lb bag into one large pellet. Then you could just feed once every couple three weeks, and the fish would bite off what they wanted. Like cows feeding on hay in the bale ring. I know, the mechanical feeder thing again....."it doesn't throw far enough, it throws too far," "the giant pellet collapsed my feeder legs", "a sasquatch got into the feeder and stole the pellet bale", "when my feeder throws the pellet bale, the splash empties all the water out of my pond".

It's always something with the mechanical feeder guys. Real men's hands smell like fish food.

Tony, I have 4 bags of the "older" Optimal in the white, woven bags that I'd be HAPPY to let you pay extra for!!! lol Let me know and I'm sure I could meet Scott somewhere.

I'll be installing an AirMax aeration system in a pond about 2 hours west of you near Effingham, IL also if you wanted to pick some up.

What are the new pellet sizes? My bluegill love the bag I have but they are still small and can barely eat the size I currently have.

Thanks Rex, I would be happy paying an additional 10-12 dollars per bag, but if there isn't a continuous supply available I'm still just postponing the eventuality. Inconsistency was the reason I switched from Purina in the first place, so it aggravates me to see it happening yet again.

I'll get over it.

Thanks esshup, that looks like what I have now. The smaller BG attack the larger pellets mob style until it is small enough for one of them to swallow. They seem to always target the larger pellets first for some reason. Once the pellets soften up a bit, they have no trouble eating it. These fish were spawned in my pond and took to the Optimal pretty quick.

i was the one that made the other post about the feed sinking. i started using the feed last fall and i remember it looking more like rabbit food as far as diameter. the last 2 bags were a good bit smaller in diameter and were VERY dark in color, these were the ones that sank.

i got 2 new bags in this week, opened one today and the diameter is huge as compared to the last bag. the color is very light tan and it 100% floats. i honestly didnt pay attention to the length.

last year i did not notice it had a very fishy smell and today this bag has almost no smell.

i threw a handful today as i was filling the feeder and the fish tore it up just as the did the darker small diameter food. i still use aquamax from time to time. i want to make sure my fish like that size and shape pellet also (it makes it easy to catch them on stubby steve).

i have a sweeney feeder and it throws all feed very well. i have had it since 2009 or 2010 and i have never had a single problem with it.

Here's my experience thus far regarding the switch from last years food to this years food.... When I first started using the bag from this year my redears seemed to not like it, or at minimum slowed their eating considerably. I discussed this with Bruce and he thought I may have a hatch of some sort underway that was overwhelming my redears therefore they were showing little interest in the feed. After about 3 weeks of slow or no feeding they began feeding again and seemed to slowly increase to the point that they are now feeding more aggressively than prior. Another concern of mine was that this years batch seemed to have more feed sink upon being released from the feeder and the feed also saturated and sank more quickly. I'm guessing it was less than 5% that sank upon hitting the water, but a noticeable difference nonetheless. At first I wasn't fond of this as a bloom was underway and I couldn't see if they were hitting the sinking pellets or not. But suspected by minnow activity in the area they were not hitting the sinking pellets. That puts us up til this last few days when I've had a chance to do more observation of the feeding. They are now feeding better than they ever have (possibly d/t water temp increasing) but I'm also under the impression the seeming change in food has helped my fishery for two reasons... 1) the small number of pellets that sink seems to have enticed some fish that were too timid to come to the surface before into becoming feed trained and 2) the smaller pellets are being taken by fish too small (4-5") for the larger pellets so I am assured of future generations of pellet trained redears. Also of note, I've NEVER seen fish as obese as these redears. They were particularly large after they slowed their pellet eating for 2-3 weeks. So I'm fairly certain a massive hatch had taken place. These fish were hatched spring of 2015 and I believe average over .75 lb now with what I believe is a few around 1 lb already. Very pleased with the results from Optimal at this time.

Question for esshup.... Would feed fresh from the mill be more likely to sink than older feed? Possibly some drying taking place after I open the bag that changes buoyancy? I'm wondering if that's why some of the newer feed seems less buoyant.

I just stopped hydrating the feed about three months ago, but went back to wetting it down again this evening. That did the trick, no more pellet rejection. Still hopeful they get used to eating it without me having to prepare it, though.

scott69, I have noticed the exact same thing with my feed. Latest order seems just like what I've received before. either way my fish in both ponds are growing and thriving at levels I've never experienced before so I cant complain. Need to start a new thread about this actually.

Keeping in mind these fish had been fed 4 times already that day, I'm happy with their feeding on Optimal. These are 2 year old redears that are about 9-9.5" on average and over 3/4 lb. My goal is to have the larger ones averaging 1 lb. by Labor Day.

What beautiful water! I haven't seen clarity since ice season...algae blooms all year and sketchy looking water.

Mine looks absolutely incredible this year. But then again, after redoing mine 2 years ago, my nutrient load is minimal.

Two coppernose bg of the 300 that I stocked 6 weeks ago at 2-3". These are around 4-5". Feeding 4 times a day for two seconds each time.

That's amazing Chris

Ordered my optimal bluegill today...excited to get it here!! They are started on the Purina Catfish 32 that I got at the coop, don't laugh...all I could get at the time.. lol I have been hydrating 3 to 1. Putting in a folgers can, then putting it in the fridge. They nibble at it and probably get some out of it...but they are learning how to eat. Can't wait to see what they do with optimal!

Talked with Dustin at the South Dakota office of Optimal today. He said they've come out with smaller feed, BG Jr, for those who prefer it. Also have a LMB product.

Dustin indicated that all Optimal is made at the same mill now, except for small specialized orders. Differences in composition such as floating or sinking are mostly due to mill issues, not reformulation.

Chris, Did you weigh them and maybe get a relative weight %. Just curious...They look fat. Nice job.

I hope they don't change the 'mill issues'. I like that about 5-10% sinks. It has helped a few of my more timid redears feed train. Or so I believe. And great news on the Junior sized feed.

Fedex dropped my optimal off a few minutes ago. Can't wait for 8 o'clock when I go feed. I'm sure they will take a few days to get on it...but I'm anxious. They have really just in the last few days began to really hit the hydrated catfish feed I've been putting out. I have to sit about 20 feet from the shore, but after a few minutes you see the feed bouncing up and ever so often get hit and disappear.

I opened the optimal bag and the smell is so much different from the catfish feed. The catfish feed after hydration smells like wet livestock feed. I'm assuming due to the fact of so much grain product in it. The optimal smelt like aquarium fish flakes, or that was my first impression. Anyways, will post vids when they really go to taking it.

Great! I think you'll be pleased with the response, though it may take them a few days to get used to it.

When they do, watch out!

Ive been feeding it in one of my feedees for a couple days now. They are starting to eat it better this afternoon. I've been feeding Aquamax for 10 years now but if this feed turns out to be as good as everyone says then I'll swap all the feedees to optimal. Aquamax must have changed there formula a few years back cause it isn't the same as it was when I first started feeding it. I used to get 110% relative weights but now is more like 90% to 95% on average.

Second day on optimal. I hand feed. We had a storm going by today, so I stayed on the south end (shallow end) so the feed would stay put. Yesterday was pretty much business as usual. You could see the feed bounce and get pushed around (pecking). Today as I made my way around the shallows, I saw something I haven't seen the past two weeks...(remember I was feeding hydrated Purina Catfish 32, not great, but feed)...they began breaking the surface to get the feed. I wasn't a riot by any means...but probably 20 or so breaks. They broke the surface enough to see their heads...a couple up out of the water. Lots more feed hits. I think by the end of the week they will really be getting after it. They actually stayed close enough for me to see a few today. First time for that also.

+1

Could the lower relative weights have to do with the number of fish being fed rather than the feed? Larger number of fish being fed the same amount of feed might divide the weight between more fish????

Just asking.

Yes along with the age (population status)of the fish and harvest. More mouths to feed.

Could it be that your fish are becoming overpopulated? May be more of an issue of not harvesting enough.

No I didn't get any weights. Bought a kitchen scale a few weeks ago so the next time I am up there I'll get some weights.

Hoping to get a photo of Optimal Bass, Optimal BG and Optimal BG Jr tomorrow night. Here is video of redears attacking the Optimal BG. They feed like this for 3-4 min each feeding 6x a day. This seems pretty good for redears.



Sorry, struggling to embed on my phone.

Placed an order with Optimal for a couple of bags of BG Friday to try it out. Do they notify you when it is shipped? Tracking number? I received an acknowledgement of the order but my account only shows that the order is being processed. Not in a hurry but need to arrange for someone to be present for delivery.

I didn't receive a tracking number. But here in Nebraska mine was delivered 22 hrs after I placed my order.

Just an FYI. I went by the pond yesterday. I hadn't been by for about 10 days. I had started the newer Optima feed right before I left for vacation. I looked in the feeder to see how much was left, and was pretty surprised that the feed level hadn't dropped very much. The new feed must be a bit larger than last year's production. It isn't going through my feeder as well. I'll be back up this weekend and try to adjust the opening.
I hit the test button, which send s out a 10 second feed. It took a while to start shooting feed out. I shook the feeder, and it picked up a bit. Had a pretty good reaction even though it was mid afternoon. I'm thinking my FHM population took a hit over the last week or so, without the feeder running.

My feeder doesn't take large feed very well at all. I'd have to shake it once in a while with the Optimal BG to keep it casting feed well. Now that I've mixed a bit of Optimal BG Jr. in with it it doesn't have near as much trouble.

Sounds like I need to get some Optimal BG Jr.
Thanks

What feeders are you guys using? I haven't gotten one yet, still hand feeding but what you are experiencing might sway me one way or another.

Thanks!

I have 2 Texas Hunter feeders and 1 Moultrie 30 gallon Feedcaster. Obviously the Texas Hunters are way better, but the Moultrie can work well in certain situations. It doesn't throw the feed far and doesn't take large feed. But if you can put it out over the water on the dock it works adequately for a small pond. And then use smaller feed. It costs about $150 and to replace the feedcasting unit is under $50. So far mine has lasted a couple seasons and has done well. I really like it in situations where I can hand feed on most days but want it throwing feed regularly for feed training purposes. You can see how far mine throws in the video above. I'd guess maximum is 15' with most of it landing in the 5-8' range.

I had looked at those, I have a couple old deer feeders that just need the motor/timers. I wanted a texas hunter for Christmas, but I've about decided on aerator parts and just get the american hunter/moultaire motor/timer.

Does it clog up with optimal bg?? Thats what I plan to feed, but can do jr next if needed, but would rather stay with BG. If going that route I would put it on legs out in the pond and just walk out there to fill it. Thinking the aerator would be a better investment and go with the cheaper feeder.

I have a aquamax, or something like that. I saved a few hundred bucks over the TX feeders, but it was not a good deal. It jams a lot, and it doesn't throw as far and as wide. (From what I've been told)
Also, i had to replace the wiring harness not too long ago. They stood behind the product and sent me a new harness, but I had lost two weeks of feeding thinking it was running fine, but it had shut down.
When you factor in the price of good fish feed, it pays to go ahead and get the better feeder.

Peachgrower,

I have had Optimal BG in my Texas Hunter for 10 months now with Zero issues. Expensive, but great machine.

Chad

Chad, I agree about expensive. However, others are also expensive and have issues. To me, the TH is an investment and the others are costs.

Sorry I missed your question PG. Mine does plug occasionally with Optimal BG, but it doesn't seem to do it anymore than it did with Aquamax 500. As long as you live by your pond and are able to go tap on the feeder occasionally it isn't an issue. I've had the Optimal BG and Optimal BG Jr. mixed in there for about a week now and it seems to feed thru the feeder much better, cast better and is much less likely to plug. If I didn't live by my pond I would fill it with Optimal BG Jr only as I don't think it would plug.

Another thing to think about is getting the non directional deer feeders if you are putting it on legs out in the pond. I don't know from experience, but I'm guessing that would be much less likely to plug than the directional fish feeders. I believe Moultrie essentially has the same units but made for wildlife rather than fish ponds. If you have any other questions I can go looking for you and send you to the product link I am talking about.

What I ended up doing was building a small feeder platform with Tommy Dock parts and putting my feeder out over the water. It isn't terribly costly to do. And I'll bet there are cheaper options than the Tommy Dock parts. Then I put my feeder on that and I use it as a place to sit on and watch the fish feed.

Thanks guys!!

NEDOC, I would like to look at those links. I think the moultaire would work for me. That is the one in your vid? My pond is around an acre or a little over. I think I will use the plastic barrel off my father in laws deer feeder...then get one of the timers on ebay. I think I'll go non directional and build baffles for it if needed one day. It will be in the middle of the shallow end of the pond. Do you have a solar charger on it? If not how long does it last?

Update on optimal: MAN, I'm going to get a vid this weekend I hope. But in the last few days, they swarm this stuff. I have a small, maybe 6 ft feed ring made out of scrap 1/2" pvc tied to a piece of a cinder block. They home in on that. I throw some around it also for the bashful ones, but they have gotten to where they knock alot of out over the top of the feed ring then the bashful ones get to still eat. These were 2-4" 6 weeks ago and splash like they are way bigger! Its exciting when it finally begins to come together.

Here is the unit I have.......

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/moultrie-30-gallon-feedcaster

Some coons got the best of the wiring on the lower unit so I switched it out and put this one on.......

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/feedcaster-kit

If you are going over the water you may wanna use this lower unit...

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/moultrie-econo-plus-feeder-kit

or

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/pro-magnum-feeder-kit-6-volt

I don't have a charger and mine lasts a couple months.


Also, if looking to build a feeder platform, here are some cheap leg holders to help.....

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Multinautic-Multi-Anchor-Leg-Holder-Dock-Kit-19111/207072390

Thanks alot! Is the feedcaster the one that you had some clogging issues with? Its directional isn't it? I would think the "deer" style 360 would have less trouble. What do you think? My fish are really hammering the Optimal BG...hate to change it.

Order was delivered by FedEx Friday morning as loose bags. Driver apologized and explained that the shipping box arrived in pieces and was unusable. He searched for an invoice in what was left of the packaging but was unable to find one. Optimal also included a couple of small sample bags of the new BG Jr. feed. As expected, the driver was of the opinion that the shipping box was not sufficiently sturdy. Would not expect otherwise from a good company man but am including this in my post in case there is a trend. I'm certainly not complaining because we all have our FedEx and UPS shipping stories.

Looking forward to giving it a test next week. Just filled my Texas Hunter feeder Wednesday with my regular feed and it will take a few days for it to empty. I certainly appreciate the sample bag of the new product.

One other thing concerning Optimal's customer service. I received a phone call from the company advising me my order was being filled. At least I think that iis what the voice said. Thanks to the modern miracles of electronics, we now have answering machines that can totally garble even the most simple messages.

Yes I had a few clogging issues but not terrible. I agree with you that the 360 would seem to clog less. Keep us updated.

I'm curious to see how the 360 feedcasting works as I'm tempted to float a feeder in my catfish pond to attract fish for seining.

Well, I figured out this weekend what my feeder issue was. The coons had pulled hard enough on the cable going from the solar panel to the battery that they loosened it. The gap led to water leak, from the big rains we've been having lately. When I was up there on Friday, I opened up the feeder, and caught the whiff of rotten feed. I took 5gal buckets down and took out all the wet feed. I was very conservative. Any feed suspected of being wet, or near the wet stuff was discarded.
The feeder worked fine with the "good/dry" feed. It didn't broadcast the same volume in 4 seconds as the older Optima. Easy fix was just to add 8 seconds to the feed time. Now it runs for 12 seconds. Re-sealed the power cable. Hoping for trouble free feeding the rest of the summer. The fish love it, that's for sure. Caught mostly HBG over the weekend, but a few YP also. No SMB, or HSB. Did catch a RES, those are pretty fish.
Water at the surface was pretty warm. Down a few inches though, it was still pretty cool.

NEDOC, check the spin plate setting on the TH feeder. From the bottom of the feed hopper to the flat portion of the spin plate should be 3/8". You can adjust it down a bit if needed.

Unfortunately, it has to be done with the feeder empty.

Thanks esshup, but the feeder I was referring to above is a cheap Moultrie. The TH feeders rarely plug for me.

New to the fish feeding game here. I have a 3 to 4 acer lake that is from 15 foot deep to 4 foot. I have had it survayed and the report say I need to feed the Blue Gill / Brim as we call them in Georgia. I have read a lot of the post about feeding. I am still not sure which food is the best value for the money. I am leaning to Optimum. So here are the questions I can't seem to find the answers two.
1. Is optimum the best food value out there?
2. When do I start feeding my fish?
3. How many times and how long do I feed them each day?
thanks in advance for your help and feed back.

I'm no expert, YEEH, but I do feed my fish Optimal. It is one of the most expensive feeds, so obviously I feel the nutritional value is better than most. However, Purina makes good feeds as well. Either should work well for you.

Based on my experience, I'd say to begin feeding when water (not air!) temps hit 60 or a bit higher. Start in the afternoon when things warm up, as fish are more active then. Later in the heat of summer switch to morning and late evening.

It may take a while for the brim to figure out what's going on, so don't get discouraged if nothing much happens for a couple of weeks. They'll get it eventually! Just don't feed much until they do.

How long? Let the fish tell you. If they finish the feed in less than 5 minutes, feed more. If feed is left over after 10 or 15 minutes, feed less.

One benefit of feeding is the sheer fun of watching them eat. What a blast!

Lots of good fish foods and a LOT of junk. I'm feeding Optimal and some of us buy in bulk, have it shipped in, and split it. If/when I run out I have no problem with using Purina or Cargill. But, there is also some lesser quality stuff that I stay away from.

The junk is usually found in feed stores and generally costs less. High protein doesn't always equate value. I'm aware of one brand that is heavily dosed with ground up chicken feathers. Feathers are high protein but indigestible by fish.

I use Optimal, Al Hall uses Cargill and Lusk uses Purina. I've fished both of their places. We all raise big, healthy fish.

It may depend on what is available locally. Optimal has the advantage you can easily order it by mail and have delivered to your doorstep.

In my case up until last year if I wanted anything other than the lower protein stuff sold in places like Tractor Supply I had to order it way ahead of time and the reliability of supply was questionable. That has changed more recently with a local feed store stocking Purena Aquamax MVP. Now I feed MVP for my bulk feed but I find the Optimal is handy for any specialty feed I might want such as starter or bass feed, because I can order it easily in smaller amounts.

So I feed both Optimal and Purena.

Thanks to all who replied. I had not heard of Cargill, but will look them up.
So I wait till 60 degree water and start feeding once a day till they figure it out than look at maybe twice a day. Make sure there is enough on the table to last approximately 10 mins of feeding. Thanks for the info. It seems like purina is a multi purpose feed. My lake has more bass in it then Brim. So It was recommended to feed just the brim. I will check out the Cargill feed. I do have a local feed store close by and will see what he stocks.
Next is weather to airreate (yes I know I spelled it wrong but not as bad as Seri di when I ask her)or not.
Thanks for the info

I use cargill 4512 and have had good luck with it. The fish seem to really like it over the stuff you get at Tractor Supply

One other thing: During the heat of summer, don't feed at the crack of dawn. Low oxygen levels could mean trouble. Wait for a couple of hours of sunlight when oxy levels are up. Evening feeding can be as late as you want, even darkness, with no such issue.

My first bag of quality food was from Cargill, supposedly delivered from the "mill." It has a massive ten pound clump of molded feed right in the middle of the bag...how in hell can this be...I removed the bad stuff and fed the remainder. Then I saw on here the danger represented by molded feed.
Purina feed: a local store is a dealer, but all they had was one bag of lower quality, saying that nobody buys expensive fish food. Otherwise, the shipping charge is more than the original price, working out to about $4 per pound.

Optimal Bluegill: Free shipping from the source. The fish love it...bluegills and catfish and even Gambusia...small fish nibble it...and a few of my bass took to it also. When the catfish are up on the surface, I'll throw them the low quality Gamefish food from Tractor Supply.

I would suggest to keep looking for a feed store that can order AM 500 or 600. It cost me about $0.75/lb

I think(?) that the lower quality Purina feeds (pond gamefish chow, Purina catfish feed, Aquamax Pond 2000 & 4000) and the Aquamax high protein series Fry powder thru AM Sportfish 600 are produced or at least stocked at their main plants. Thus when a retailer orders Purina fish food the special order bags all should be able to be placed on one shipping pallet order. At least that is how my Purina retailer received my AM feed orders. I had to tell my retailer how to do it. Maybe it would help if you called the plant or the Purina sales representative for information where your retailer orders his fish food?

Bill, tell me about this Aquamax 4000 stuff? My local Family Farm and Home chain store can get some purina foods judging by their web page. Their web page only has pond gamefish chow and Aquamax 4000. What is the 4000? It appears to be a single size, small pellet floating feed that is high protein, low fat. But I can't see the tag for protein source and in the fine print online it says it is just fine for herbivores and carnivores and then says it is targeted for catfish and tilapia?

Strangely they don't list the 'better' options, they don't list MVP, and then they do list 'largemouth' which I assume is a very specialized large pellet size feed?

Their web page does not indicate what any local store might actually stock and it sounds like special orders, 1 bag at a time is the rule.

All we can get here is "Catfish Pellets" at about $20 per 50 pound bag, or the "Game Fish Food" sold by Tractor Supply, at about $13 for 25 pounds, but it's often out of date. Optimal, at $50 for 40 pounds, is too much for me to feed regularly. So, I mostly feed "Catfish Pellets".

I think the AM4000 is a protein food 36%P/6%F 3/16" designed as noted for catfish and tilapia whereas the AM2000 is 32%P/3%f 5/16" pellet. I think a lot of the purina retailers don't know a lot about the Purina types of fish foods. Sometimes we need to educate the retailers and sometimes contact their Purina sales rep to get the food we are interested in having. I am pretty confident that if the right contact channels are used any Purina retailer can get any Purina feed at reasonable cost. Extra shipping cost of getting Purina fish food sounds naive of the possibilities.

Here is a Purina web page that has links to the different aquatic feeds.

Purena aquatic feeds

All fish products

John

I have fed the AM400 and really like a small amount mixed in with the larger feed to feed the sub 3" BG. A bag will last me all season because the tiny pellets go a long ways.

It is hard for me to get it though. Much easier to order the largest size Optimal starter and get it delivered to my door.

Around large fish farming areas it is probably easy to get any of the Purena feeds. Out in the hinterlands, not so much so.

My feed store was not familiar with the Purina feeds, but they were able to get MVP in about a week. Now they keep an inventory just for me. $42 per bag. Always good conversation when I stop into the Livingston Feed Store which is a plus.

Any good Purina feed store can get anything in their next regular shipment.

I'm not sure the price is worth it, especially for CNBG. However there is at least some evidence that the feed to body mass conversion ratio for one of the fish meal based brands is below 2:1 which may give a lower $/lb than the cheaper plant based feeds.

I've invested $$$$$ in my ranch - pond - house, so skimping on feed seems like a false economy.

Thanks for the link snrub. I guess there is a aquamax 400 AND a aquamax 4000. The 4000 is a 3/16" floating pellet but the specs from the link you posted indicate more suitable for plant eating fish like catfish and tilapia. Not sure why the farm supply chain store web page only offers the gamefish chow (cheap), the 4000, and the largemouth options only.

I'm happy with optimal and their rapid single bag delivery to the door service. I need to figure out how to get different sizes Optimal without ordering several bags. Or I have to do a little crushing or regrinding on my own at home.

You can order a single bag of anything from Optimal. Sometimes they have specials. Check their web site regularly.

In the Purena Aquamax I now feed the MVP which is a variable size product. Basically it has 500 and 600 sizes and smaller ones not quite as small as AM400. It is a good all around size to feed multiple size fish. I used to feed a mix of AM500 and AM600 with a little 400 mixed in during the year when there were very small BG near the shore line. When I went to MVP I will mix a little 400 or the largest size of Optimal Starter.

I only feed around 3# per acre so subsequently my fish are always hungry and will clean up any type of feed I throw out. If I run out of my regular feed I will feed some 32% feed in a pinch and the fish eat it just fine also.

snrub, what do you see as the difference between the AM400 and AM4000?

Has anyone tried the Skretting brand ? I was wondering how it compared to the Optimal ?

My local fish farm had zeigler Bros food. When I went there I got 10# for free with my purchase. I got some trout and they love it but I was having some problems getting the bluegill to eat it. They kept spitting it out until it softened after floating awhile.

Well today I got a bag of optimal bluegill and it was an amazing difference. They all loved it. Even the trout went wild for it. Even tiny bluegill couldn't resist trying to get it. It is just more attractive and they keep it down.

I only throw by hand and just put out around a cup each night. This bag should last most of the summer.

I have the same experience. Even giant 1 inch hand thrown Optimal pellets will get pecked at by the YOY CNBG in the weeds, especially as it softens. All gone by next day.

How much is normal to feed each time? I stocked 300 HBG and 80 RES...and have Optimal Junior.
I intend to setup feeder but have not yet done so so i will hand feed to start.

1 cup, 5 cups, just toss it out and wait and see??

Also, do you throw our feed in one spot, or multiple? I'd imagine many ( on the other end??) would miss dinner if isolated to one spot. too bad they dont come to a dinner bell.

thanks

toss and wait and see is a good approach. You probably will see 80% immediately gone and the rest slowly over the next 30 min will be cleaned up.

I too see amazing response to optimal and I only hand toss it when I have time.

A trick that is working well for me (and would be a very smart marketing trick if anyone from Optimal is reading this..) I bought the standard optimal and the next size smaller (the JR.) and mixed them 50:50. This gives a variety of sizes that more fish can work at at the same time. The larger fish take the bigger ones and the minnows can work over the smaller ones and get them in their mouth more quickly.

I know Purina has had success with a feed that has multiple sizes, Optimal could easily have a feed with 2 sizes mixed, or even 3 sizes mixed using some of their starter pellets.