Anyone experiencing trouble with getting AQ? I've had mine on order for almost 3 weeks now, and my supplier keeps relating that it's on backorder?

Ran out last night, hope they get this resolved shortly.

Game fish chow could hold you over...that always seems to be available ...

I considered that, may have to go that route if I can't obtain the AQ very soon.

Well...I'm pretty irritated with Land O'Lakes right now. They made a dubious decision. "They've" (upper management) has decided to focus mainly on their core products, meaning that there will be no urgency to make some of their line of lower volume products. AquaMax fits into that category. What's more irritating is that production and manufacturing haven't go to battle to help secure AquaMax, even from a third party manufacturer. So, the supply in the warehouse is gone, they have no supply line at the moment and only one person inside that organization is going to bat to see to it that we have product. He's working with a contract mill to make the feed for Purina and get it into their distribution lines. I've asked how long that will take, and he isn't positive, but thinks it could be as long as three to four weeks.
What's most irritating is that the decision makers didn't inform anyone of their decision, even within the company. Now, the sales force is learning about it and they aren't happy.
I'm writing a letter right now to express our utter displeasure with this uneducated, dubious decision. Best feed on the market and you don't want to make it? Really?

That's not good!! I have one bag! I also have 3 on order and have not heard from my guy? Maybe this is why.... Ughh Please keep us posted Bob when you can sir!!

Thanks,
RC

Bob, this is Frank (yes, still in hold mode on pond. Maybe it will dry off enough by August!)

Re AquaMax, do you think it would help if PB people here were to call, email, or send snail mail regarding this? You have a lot of influence, no doubt about it, but your words would have even more if a bunch of other people chimed in.

Just a thought. If you agree, what would be the best way PB folks could share their concerns?

I think that might be a great idea. I'll bounce it off my contacts and see what they say.
We might need a good, old-fashioned uprising.

FWIW I only hand feed as a supplement and my enjoyment. I feed NovaOP made by Skretting. It is a high protein fishmeal based pellet and comes in many sizes. My fish seem to love it. Maybe a pellet you could try to hold you over till AquaMax comes back? I don't know about availability. I get mine from Keystone.

An [expensive] option for short term use--go to the Skretting USA website [not the int'l website]-they have an online store. Skretting bought Silver Cup, and has continued to make product in Utah. Their 7.5mm floating trout pellets are an outstanding substitute for AM 600. They'll ship it Fed Ex ground, it'll come within 5 days, at least from Utah to TN. It's beautiful food, fresh, well formed. Skretting could take over the pond food business if they ever put their mind to it-take a look at all the options they make. I've tried to support AM as I know they're supporters of the Pond Boss universe...but gosh, this is getting ridiculous.

The Sdretting food is expensive to ship. Unfortunate but not unexpected; unless they set up a distribution network, they're probably not a threat to Purina. Unless someone like Rex buys a couple pallets and starts distributing........

Oh great. I'm supposed to be part of a pond seminar on Thursday on feeding......... Partially hosted by you guessed it - Purina.

Looks like I'll be running to my local supplier tomorrow and seeing what they have in inventory.

I'm with Yolk. It's time for another producer to step up, especially in regards to distribution.

Thanks for the insight, Bob. Was wondering why my suppliers kept looking down and scuffing the floor with their shoes whenever I asked what was going on.

This sucks.

FWIW IMHO, even though Skretting's primary business is selling fish pellets, even with a good distribution network, they will be higher priced due to the cost of the ingredients they use. They use fishmeal instead of poultry by products as their source of protein. I suspect this is why their products are higher in protein and lipids, but I am definitely not an expert. I figured there has to be a reason fish farms are their primary customers when those guys could buy a less expensive pellet.

Every time we've had a PB conference I've talked to the good intentioned Purina representatives. I've talked to many of the regularly rotated and enthusiastic regional reps a number of times. When I call back a month or two later, they've been replaced by a new enthusiastic rep without any power. Most have never even heard of us (Pond Boss).

I eventually give them my ever-so-impressive elected title, that I hold only because nobody else wants it. They again get enthused, but there is no follow-thru. I've posted my disappointments here many times.

It is like one of the lines from a Tom T. Hall song:



If we were to get a group together, could we convince them to sell us the rights to manufacture and market the Aquamax products?

It may be the only way I can get any.

I ordered four bags to be picked up next week. Should be interesting.

Fred - keep us posted. I believe you are one of the people who can reliably get Aquamax, and who provides it to other Pond Boss friends as far as two states away from you.

Is your warehouse big enough to hold several tractor trailer loads of Aquamax?

Ken

Yup, we have a big warehouse you arrange it, I'll store it.

Just to clear the record, Purina Aqua Max does not derive it's protein from poultry products - rather from menhaden - pure fish protein. I don't know if Bill was intimating this or not - I just thought someone should address it so there's no confusion.

Al uses Cargill, and he likes it. They made a play at the market a while back and even came to PB conference. I have no clue if they are still trying to gain a market share or not, but believe they still produce it. If AM is not available, might be worth investigating Cargill availability.

Yep, I've been using 1/4" Cargill for about 2 years now, and both the CNBG and I like it a lot. It stores in the summer heat very well, so I usually get enough for 6-7 months at a time. The ingredient numbers/content and price are very similar to Purina.

I still use Purina if I want some different sized food, so I hope they get this all straightened out. I just can't believe the private pond market is so limited that they would drop the the ball, even temporarily, and allow pond owners to look for other sources. IMO, the market is Purina's for the taking, they just need to make the food available in a timely manor.

Scott, Last Saturday I bought the last 3 bags of AM 600 from MM. If you need a bag, give me a shout, we can arrange it.

We have been using Cargill for a number of years since Purina Aquamax provided subpar feed and poor delivery service.
It was a major disapointment with Purina for me having used AQMX for some 10 years with excellent results.
George

TJ,

I got the "Poultry By Products" from this thread.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=304252&page=all

Thanks for clarifying.

I remembered that thread when I read Bob's comment about Purina working with a contract mill to make the AQ for them. On one hand, I'm glad someone on the inside is attempting to produce product, but on the other, the skeptic in me wonders what the end result might be.

As I recall, there have been issues with dirty extruders in the past, leading to variances in product sizing.

Purina AQ is an tremendous product. What it has done to help my fish is nothing short of amazing in my eyes, and I fervently hope that this issue is resolved in a timely fashion. However I can't afford to just stand by and think good thoughts..I need feed now, not later. Coming out of the cold water period, I haven't had the chance to stockpile feed for the summer.

I am researching alternatives, and have contacted Cargill and Skretting, regarding their dealer networks and distribution. I hope to hear back soon. In the meantime, I intend to order 2-3 bags of Skretting to hold me over. Yes, the shipping is expensive. But the product appears very comparable to AQ, nutrition and ingredient wise, and who knows...my fish may prefer it over the AQ.

I ordered 16 bags of AQ a couple weeks ago from my local dealer, but nothing has arrived yet. I guess this explains the delay, b/c the turnaround time in the past was fairly quick.

I was little lucky in that my dealer had a couple leftover bags of AQ600 with a July, 2014 manufacture date still in his storage. We opened them up and they appeared to be good. So I took them the same day that I placed my order. That'll tide me over for a little while.

With what I am reading in this thread, I am going to be proactive and contact the local Cargill dealer on Monday about sourcing some feed from them. I hate to do this, but....I don't want to be out of feed when the water warms up & the fish's appetites are kicking into gear.

I bought a feeder last week. I sent Purina a email on where I might be able to find AM..
Never heard back from them.
Now I'm thinking, maybe I should have worked out the food side of the equation before I bought the feeder.
Of course I don't have any fish yet, so it's a bit theoretical. (But they are coming.. )

Back when we were showing rabbits we had some issues with Purina on quality to the point of killing bunnies, went round and round with them to no avail, finall we were told that they just don't care what we thought- if ya don't like it go buy somewhere else! We did just that. I'm still to this day not to happy with them or their products. I use cargill feed and am totally pleased with results so far. IMHO



Pat

Purina has a website to locate dealers in your area. I lost the bookmark when my computer died but it is easy to find. You should call the dealer before you go to make sure carry the fish food because all dealers do not carry all of the Purina products.

Feeding time tonight, warmer water, hungry fish streaming towards me as I walked up, empty handed.

Then, when no feed came, began the accusatory stares....silent mouthing of threats...vulgar name-calling....obscene fin gesturing.

This is going to get ugly.

I feel sorry for the folks that have stocked their ponds dependent on pellet feeding with insufficient natural forage to at least sustain what's in there.

IMHO Welcome to corporate America. Folks have loyalty to products but big companies have no loyalty to the folks and only see the bottom line.

Edit: Dry cat food as a temp. substitute till AquaMax is back?

OK pond experts,while we're talking about fish pellets, what's the difference between Aquamax, Nutri Source, and Game Fish Chow all made by Purina?

I was told the perch I purchased today were shipped from out of state to my supplier in SW Michigan. I didn't buy many, around 100, just enough to get started and see how they acclimate to my pond. Apparently they were 'trained' on Aquamax pellets.

I don't intend to feed daily as my goal isn't trophy perch. I'd rather see how the pond can sustain them naturally. I've spent about 18 months trying to build a variety of forage and I'm curious to see how the balance of life is in my pond before interfering too much. I'm afraid my crayfish might get ahead of themselves without some hungry fish in there to take care of them.

I also know that there are lots of snails, hopefully the perch will go for those too.

The perch looked great, all looked quite lively and all made it the one hour ride back home with no mortalities as of tonight. The larger perch, maybe roughly 1/3 were full of eggs and I was told if i wanted young perch to hurry up and put some branches in the pond as they may even lay eggs as soon as today.

So I asked the nice people at the fish farm what they fed their perch. I asked if I could buy some from them. I figured I'd try to keep them trained by doing some hand feeding from time to time when I had a chance. Mostly to keep them pellet trained and perhaps if they learned to come to the same place around the same time, my kids could learn to do it and watch them eat every day after school.

I was told that although it was 'very expensive' this was the best floating pellet to use. I was kind of surprised at the label but accepted it, said thank you very much for being kind to honor my tiny little order and taking care of a new customer.

This is what they told me to find and use in the future:




It is part of my job to be up on the difference between Vitamin D2 and D3. D2 is made by plants and animals as a result of sun (UV) action on them. For example trout caught from the wild are a reasonable source of Vit D2, I'm told farm raised trout are not. D2 you purchase in the store is made by taking big trays of fungus and exposing them to UV radiation.

D3 is made by UV action on the skin of humans. Most over the counter supplements, even if they do not specify, are D3. This is simply reverse engineering of the D3 molecule in a lab and then packaged into a capsule or tablet for human consumption. Far better to get it this way then to expose trays of humans to radiation.

I found it interesting that this bag of fish chow also includes added HUMAN vitamin D. Perhaps the reasoning is simply to try to achieve the same levels of D3 in large fish farms of the trout to keep them 'on par' with their free range cousins.

IMHO The ingredients and the target species. For example, for CC the food of choice is grain based and much lower protein than a pellet like AquaMax targeted at fish such as HBG.

Or maybe my supplier prefers Aquamax but is settling on the skretting product because he cannot get what he prefers? I know they sell other types of fish including HBG and I would think they would want the best they could get. On the other hand, maybe they were shooting for the middle and trying to find the one pellet that could service all their fish to keep the ordering simple.

My fish farm feeds Skretting.

All anyone around here carries is 32% floating catfish food. Coop has some 32% sinking.

We have a local Purena dealer (caries the Purena floating cat fish food)and I ordered some Aquamax 500 from him about a month ago now. He apologizes profusely, but so far no Aquamax.

I need to check with Tractor Supply. At one time they had Game Fish Chow. Sometimes 32% Purena and sometimes 36% Cargill, depending on the store.

Sure would like to buy some better fish food, but it seems to be a rather difficult task.

I've wondered about feeding or supplemental feeding (pellets), and I've always come back to "no". First was the issue of installing feeders. Then it was maintaining the feeders and hoping no trespassers would monkey with the feeders. Then it was thinking about am I running a factory pond or a natural pond. Then I thought what if I am feeding and the feeders break, the food runs out, etc.

This topic has brought that one concern to a very real light. I don't want to rely on man-made products for my fish. At least at this time. I hope y'all find the feed bags you need. If anyone is in metro Atlanta area there are a couple of shops that had plenty of feed couple of weeks back.

I was going to order 6 bags of feed from Skretting. Then when I got to check out the shipping via UPS was $150. Don't think so.

Too bad. Would have liked to try it.

Heck basslover, feeding my fish is half the fun of having them. Talked about getting a feeder with my wife, but she was against it. She said I had too much fun feeding them by hand, and that a feeder would reduce my enjoyment.

They are like puppy dogs following me around the pond. An unnatural pond is quite ok by me. If it was natural it would be pasture (or native prairie) instead of a pond.

$150 ! Ouch. Would like to try it too, but not for that much scratch.

I suspect is is shipped via UPS one bag at a time. But wow! $25 a bag. That seems high even for UPS.

You can go in to the on line ordering and put what you want into the shopping cart. Go to check out and there it will tell you what the shipping will be. Don't have to actually order to find out.

Just a thought, I would ask Skretting if they have any customers in your area that you can get pellets from. I can buy them at Keystone in Richmond, Il. They also ship. Freight charges from there might be less.

Edit: Just went to Keystone website to see what shipping would be to Indiana. UPS $25/bag.

I think most of us have probably wrestled with the " feed or no feed" question at one time or another. This most recent development with my feed supplier does nothing to change my opinion on the matter, as I have seen the positive results my feeding program has produced. And while I am attempting to locate a substitute feed, I am not worried that my fish will perish during the interim. It's not their survival that I'm concerned about, I simply want to continue furthering the advanced growth rate I have observed thus far, due in no small part to supplemental feeding.

We have two ponds here that we do not feed, and they have done very well for themselves over the last few decades. So it's quite apparent that feeding pellets is not a requirement, rather it's a choice.

Adding biological forage is a cornerstone of pond management. And many feel that this is a more natural choice, and I would not argue that opinion. I would however, point out that adding additional forage is, from my point of view anyway, a form of un-natural management in itself. We've all seen those giant RES coming out of Havasu, and biologists believe their tremendous growth is due in no small part to the arrival of invasive Quagga mussels, introduced by man. Tampering with the natural eco-system? I think so.

I don't feel that our decision to feed pellets has tied my hands, or restricted my options at all. There are no mechanical feeders here, as in our situation they are entirely unnecessary. Biological forage swims and breathes....using up valuable space within the allocated carrying capacity of a BOW. Pellets may contribute to water quality issues, or weed growth... Adding biological forage carries the risk of introducing an undesirable species into the BOW, and can be tough to implement successfully into an established ecosystem. Pellets can be added anytime.

+1 Sparkie. I also use supplemental feeding to improve growth of whatever fish in the pond want to eat some. I think it is a great tool. I hand throw the pellets cause I just get a kick out of watching them feed!

I have been on the forum several months now and have seen several stocking recommendations like " You can stock a 100 of them , but if you stock pellet trained fish, you can put in 300." What does the guy that stocked at a capacity based on pellet feeding do when the pellet supply is suddenly shut off? Will his fish continue to survive?

I think this is why it's best to diversify your pond's portfolio. If our ponds' were propped up solely by a daily infusion of AQ, then I would worry. We talk often of the difference between feeding supplementally, vs. feeding to satiation, and maybe this illustrates that point.

I am of the opinion that ANYTHING that is constantly run on the ragged edge at maximum rpm is subject to problems. Maybe that's just a simplistic view from the guy who has to scrub his fingernails clean every night, but that's just the way I see it. When you're pushing something that hard, a hiccup somewhere may spell disaster.

I would hope that those who truly rely on feeding AQ have a supply on hand to hold them over. The problem for me, is the timing....I don't like to carry feed over during the cold water period when I'm not using it, so I tend to order heavy when spring arrives. But I may need to rethink that strategy.

That stuff has a short shelf life to maintain it's integrity and potency

I think 90 days, but that question would be for the experts to confirm, that way we all can check the dates on the bags before we buy

I found myself running short on Cargils due to miss communication's. So I talked to my seed and feed supplier who handles Purina to see if I could find some of the Purina feed. He told me he would have to order it and would have it in 2 to 3 days, but after seeing this, I wonder ? But in my discussion with Walt @ Overtons we discussed a larger order of Cargils and he was not concerned with me storing for longer time periods as long as I can keep the mice away. So I am having Cargils delivered and I hope it will arrive this week. I feed to increase the size of my CNBG for increasing the size of my upcoming CBLMB and my plan's are also to feed my upcoming HSB. Plans might change but today this is my plan

Tracy

Larry, Game fish chow is plant based and AMAX is menhaden based. No idea about the other product.

A little math, as food for thought:

Price I paid last year for AQ500 (don't have this year's price yet) $.76 per pound, local pickup.

Price for comparable Skretting product, $1.60 per pound, price
includes shipping from Utah.

Price for comparable Skretting product, $1.84 per pound, price includes shipping from northern Illinois. (Keystone)

Trying to find a local supplier for Skretting or Cargill, not looking very promising.

FWIW Any fish farm/hatchery within driving distance from you that would sell you feed to get you by?

Thanks Mike. I have time. I'm headed down to Mt. Vernon to a pond seminar to talk about feeding that is partially sponsored by Purina and I'll bring some home if they have any.....

If your supplier is in Gobles, Mi. they have fed Skretting for a long time.....

Just paid a visit to my supplier in Batesville I ordered 3 bags of AM 600 over 3 weeks ago and he still does not have it.... Ughh I got lucky and got 1 bag here in Little Rock at a store. I am gonna call them today and see if they have any more! I will be going over to get them today if they have any more that's for sure!!

RC

My Supplier in NW Ohio said he just received a shipment of Aquamax but can't get Purina Game Fish Chow.

Well I called my LR supplier and he said they are out at every store they have!

RC

Did someone check if the menhaden supply is getting low? You would think outside of a production facility failure that the popularity of pond management would keep the demand high.

I think menhaden fish meal is used in some dog and catfood as well

If LOL isn't listening to Lusk, their premier spokesperson, I find little reason to hope for near term solutions. The market sure seems ripe for a competitor who can provide quality feed and make it their primary focus - not an inconsequential afterthought. Feed revenue probably equates to less than .00001% for Cargill and Purina. Who can blame them for what we justifiably perceive as lack of customer care? I get it, from both perspectives.

Problem for the smaller competitors is distribution costs. If some pond owners find sourcing AM and Cargill difficult, imagine the challenge that would represent for a smaller player with no existing distribution network? It would likely price the product out of the ballpark.

I know someone working closely with scientists on a new pellet product, and they are sending me test data from a few hatcheries using it. What I've seen is improved palatability, improved growth rates, and necropsy results suggest longer life spans - all of which are huge. I'm far from a feed expert, but from my consumer standpoint, these are all primary concerns of mine growing my fish.

Distribution issue still looms large, however. If pellets had a longer shelf life, it sure would help simplify the equation. I want to be optimistic, but I'm fairly certain they'll never become a player unless they crack this nut - and I don't see how they ever can using traditional methods.

Game Fish Chow hey Bill or anyone else if I have been feeding AM 600 to my fish and I switch up to GFC will my fish be ok with it?? Or will they turn the other way? Seems I can get some GFC and before I bought it was just wondering how well it works??

Is it about the same size as AM600?

thx,
RC

Game Fish Chow 32% is the same size pellet as AM600 41%. My fish YP don't like GFC. ewest feeds GFC and AM together. Once you fish are accustomed to eating AM, I think they hesitate lowering their palate to GFC.

GFC has various size pellets to cover the spectrum - but no big pellets.

Thanks just not sure if I want to spend the money on GFC if they are not going to eat it at this point! Ughh what to do!!


RC

Assuming the Aquamax follies don't get resolved any time soon, perhaps PB members could band together with other groups, like Private Waters, and see if we could make an agreement with the SP (Supersecret Pellets)folks.

If necessary, interested pondowners could put up the money to have a specified amount of SP trucked to a central place, then pick it up ourselves. East Texas would be an obvious place to start, since feeding in private ponds is huge there.

More expensive and more of a bother, sure. But if SP pans out with greater palatability, increased growth, and longer life, I suspect many would find it worth the investment. As time goes on and SP popularity spreads, the distribution network could grow.

Just a thought.

Bit the bullet....Skretting feed is on the way. Have to admit though, part of my decision to order it was based on sheer curiosity, rather than need. I think I got a sample of this stuff from esshup a few years ago, maybe when it was still Silver Cup? As I recall my fish loved it.

Anxious to experiment.

I got some Purina GFC at Tractor Supply once and it was 32% like you say. I went back another time and picked up some bags of GFC thinking it funny that the bag looked different. But this GFC was Cargill and was 36% protein. Same store. Don't know if Tractor Supply was in the midst of changing suppliers or what. I go back this spring and no fish food at all (yet) but nearly all the other horse, dog, chicken, etc feed is Purina. So not sure what I will eventually find in this store.

Still have not got my AM500 I ordered over a month ago now.

Edit for correction: The 36% protein stuff was not GFC, but in fact is called Sportsman Choice Trophy Fish and is marketed as a mufti-species fish food in the same category as the Purina GFC. It is produced by Cargill.

Silver cup has a great reputation, let us know your impressions. I'm expecting your own palatability test results...I'm ok if you blend it into a shake or malt or something, but a true man would hammer a dry fistfull straight from the bag. Up to you ultimately...not like your pond cred is on the line or anything.

Or is it?

I know my wife was not so happy when all the kids came in with their hands REEEKKKIINNGGGGG (with her voice going higher and higher towards the end of the word) like fish food. We had to scrub and scrub to get the smell off before going to church. I'm not going to supply disposable gloves for all the kids so I think I'm going to invent a large 'salt shaker' I was thinking a small plastic peanut butter jar with the red lid on is about the right amount of fish food for now. I'll drill some 8-10mm holes for my 3.5mm sized food and the kids can take turns vigorously shaking it into the water.

Other ideas outside of a powered feeder for hand tossing the pellets without touching the feed?

My boy saw my hand cranked broadcast grass seeder and he thinks that would work just fine

Now you've went and done it. Calling my status into question. Dissin' on me right here, in public, in front of everyone.

I'll give you results...I'll pour milk on the stuff and eat it like breakfast cereal. I'll have Skretting/menhaden protein smoothies. I'll dump it in the tub and use it like bath salts. Heck, I'll even grind it to a powder and do a few lines right here on the counter, all in the name of science.

Never let it be said that Livingston wouldn't take a hit for the good of the forum.

I use the small size plastic Folgers coffee cans to toss out the feed.

My "feed bucket" that I take to the pond includes 2 small coffee cans and one large coffee can filled with AM 600, 2 small ones filled with AM LMB and one empty one for tossing the feed.

Never touches my hands and I can toss out only has much as I want.

Now that's good stuff right there spark!! A few lines! LOL that's funny!!

RC

Little fish food smell never hurt anyone....certainly not in church.

After all, Christ was reputed to have enlisted fishermen as disciples.

Now THAT's dedication.

It ought to be good sprinkled on ice cream and as granola with yogurt also. I hope you ordered two bags so some will be left for the fish.

I also found out that the kids decided to feed a bit to the dog. He LOVED IT. Was going nuts trying to get more. Is it the grain or the fish taste in there? Maybe it is a bit salty? sprkplug, you can let us know if it is a certain hint of anchovy on the back of the palate?

Any concern with the dog sampling it? I think the cost of this bag of fish food and the higher protein he gets from it is probably better than the equivalent weight/serving of dog food that we give him and cost per bag is probably about the same!

Back in the day when we raised hogs, dogs loved the pelleted hog food, especially the higher protein starter feed pellets for the weaning size pigs. My brother had a Brittany that would turn up its nose to dog food in favor of pig starter feed. Would be right in there with the small pigs at the pig feeder.

I think durn near everything likes the taste of AQ, including dogs. I don't give them very much, but usually offer a palm-full at feeding time if they happen to be around. And they usually are.

Makes a passable substitute for salad croutons also.

On the more helpful side of things, prices on the Skretting website reflect a minimum order....The 40% protein fish meal based feed is around $37 per 40 lb bag.

Now for the interesting part. If you will spring for a pallet, which is 20 bags, they will knock off a substantial amount per bag....a considerable savings.

Shipping is the stumbling block, however it now appears that this may not be set in stone either. I should know more tomorrow, but my impressions thus far is that they are willing to make an effort, which I find encouraging and refreshing.

Cred definitely safe and sound, Tony. I knew you'd rise to the occasion. Keep us in the loop regarding your findings...

WOW...now that's funny!

Hand feeding dry pellets is easy to keep clean - yet fishy smelling hands has always just been part of the game for me - like black soil under the fingernails when planting my salsa garden. Soap and hot water, and I'm all good - at least in my estimation. Still, there's no way to keep one's hands clean when feeding 8 cages hydrated feed daily...my wife finally gave up complaining.

Got an email from my AQ dealer this morning. Basically stated that "the Richmond plant has been having issues getting the fish feed manufactured". So my 16 bag order from last month is still waiting to be filled. He had no idea when AQ would be available.

They should move operations closer to where the majority of the pond owners are.

+1 for the member who suggested we put a map on the forum with thumbtacks where the ponds are. It would help the advertisers or marketers and would suggest potential places to locate future fish food plants.

I ran across an article about Bell Aquaculture in Redkey Indiana that mentioned that Bell has a mill and will custom make fish food to the customers specification.I have no idea about lead times or cost though.Bell looks to be up Esshup's and Cecil's way!

I think I ordered some YP fillets from them one time.

I haven't tried to order any this year and I think I am the only one that uses AQ from my dealer. I just started using it last year.
Hopefully they get things fixed I, if not I guess I will try and find the best substitute. I do know you can have a good fishing pond without feeding I have for years. I really enjoy feeding my fish and the results have been good.
I have seen the bunker boats in Venice La. And it makes you wonder about the harvest. But us pond owners use very little of it compared to where the bulk of it goes.
As far as dogs my beagles like it but they can and do eat about anything.

I stopped by the local co-op yesterday. I asked them if they stocked Aquamax.
He said they could get it, sometimes stocked it, but they always had some "Southern States" fish food in stock. I don't know if that's the name, or where it comes from, or both. It's 32% protein, floating, and $16.95 for 50#s.
Anyone familiar with this feed? Is it comparable to Aquamax 500?
Thanks,
Jeff

Well here is the bad part of all of this for those who have been feeding AM for a while. Once you give your fish this type of quality food it's very hard to get them to take anything else. Oh they will take it a little here and there but not like AM!

It would be kinda like you feeding your dog this awesome food for a year and then getting him some off brand at walmart. What do you think your dog is gonna do when he goes to eat it the first time?

Now for those who have not yet started feeding I would find something that may not be quite as good as AM but you know you can get time and time again at the local coop! Quite honestly this whole looking for a particular type food for my fish is getting old when you have to keep looking, and looking and looking and waiting!

Disappointed,
RC

It looks like this was brought up before, albeit several years ago:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256761

Here's a little more info on it but it doesn't give a full breakdown of ingredients:
http://www.southernstates.com/articles/pond-products.aspx

If AM becomes harder to get than it already was/is, at $16.95 for a 50# bag I'd be interested in trying it if it's a viable option, as I just paid twice that yesterday buying out the AM my supplier had stocked up for me (from last Fall). $$$ OUCH!

I'm easily going through 80 lbs of AM 600 and 40 lbs of AM LMB per month so like others, I certainly hope for a positive outcome with Aquamax, but a viable less expensive option would also be welcome!

Can some entrepreneur start a processing facility to make fish food pellets using asian carp instead of menhaden as the primary protein source? Seems like the supply of asian carp in the great lakes is soon to be nearly endless. Also a lot more meat per fish than menhaden as well

FWIW as I was reading through this entire thread....
(hey, I'm starting to learn the acronyms)

Seems there are potentially some savings that could be had by purchasing Skretting or others if distribution could be handled better. I am all for buying local but.... why can people buy dog food with free shipping on www.wag.com if they spend more than $50? From what I've seen, the dog food there is $2-$3 higher than if I buy at the local store, but delivered to your door.

Is it possible to quantify how much fish feed could be purchased on that website if the Pond Boss community came together to shop there and got the same potential deal, free shipping? That's really all that website is, distribution and they already have a fish section albeit for aquariums.

Was at a pond conference last night in Northeast Iowa which was sponsored by Purina and Aquamax. They had a few bags on hand but not much. I inquired about the shortage at the beginning of the meeting and both the regional rep which was in from Nebraska and the local rep each were caught off guard. Upon further phone calls by them they then confirmed there was a problem at the end of the conference. It seemed that neither was aware of the problem or if they were they were not going to let the cat out of the bag. They continued to state and were somewhat optimistic that they would be getting a semi load of Aquamax Tuesday of next week. I put in an order and am crossing my fingers. He did also state that there is a new plant coming online to make the product but would not start until they had the bags in the plant!

Great job, Doc!

My supplier is making calls as well, so as someone posted earlier maybe enough voices (in addition to the Pond Boss himself) will attract some attention?

Maybe?!?

His bosses also made reference to a certain letter that was sent to Purina about the issue. I should also add he was wondering how I knew so much about the subject and I told him the Pond Boss Forum! He was unaware of this website prior to this. I even showed him this thread with Bob's post and he started to get more of a picture about what is going on and the problems moving forward if this continues to be an issue. Hopefully the higher ups will as well.

Well lets so a little quick math here. Just as a maybe type situation.

We have 12600 members on the forum.
If only 10 percent of them feed AM to their fish that's 1260 members.

1260 members times 38 bucks a bag is $47,880 bucks if only you bought 1 bag per member. So lets say each member bought 4 bags. That's $191,520 bucks. I buy 5 to 6 bags a year and I am small time compared to some out here!

So lets say 10 percent that's may be to high. So lets go 8 percent that's 1008 members out of 12600.

1008 x 4 bags per person = 4,032 bags. 4,032 bags x 38 = $153,216 bucks.
As you can see the numbers can add up quick. And this is just our forum.

RC

Good info. Thanks! I'll see if they have the little bites.. It's a pretty cheap gamble, just to see if they'll eat it..
That is, once I get some fish.. Hehe

The 17 dollar a bag stuff likely means it's protein source is mostly corn and soybean meal. Likely OK for carp and catfish. Not so much so for BG and likely not much good for LMB.

I suspect menhaden is more nutritious due to high fat content. But I'm not an expert!

Agreed. My pond to be will only be 8 to 10 acres, small by Texas standard, but I can tell you right now that four bags would be much closer to my monthly deal than yearly.

And I still would like to to tap into the possibilities of using the new secret sauce food that enhances growth, palatability, and even fish lifespan!

Well I am looking at this from my small perspective. I am sure in Purina's eyes 200 to 220 thousands dollars is chicken feed to them. Compared to what they do every day.

But this can get high real quick. I am sure my number are low.

If you took same 1008 members times 10 bags and 38 bucks a bag now your talking almost 400 grand! At that point it's gonna be hard to start looking the other way!

I wonder if Bob knows how much AM they sell in a year average? That would be interesting to know. Is it really that small of a nitch market compared to their other products? I can't hardly believe that... but maybe it is?

RC

RC, I understand what you're saying and I'm sure someone at Land-O-Lakes would know with the push of a button how many bags were produced and sold last year.

Even if they sold 50,000 bags at a profit of $20 per bag, I think herein lies their reasoning. Even though $1m seems like a lot to us, to Land-O-Lakes it's probably preventing a greater profit on more marketable feeds just by producing the AM.

To them it's probably small potatoes in the scheme of things, like Bob mentioned, "They've" (upper management) has decided to focus mainly on their core products, meaning that there will be no urgency to make some of their line of lower volume products. AquaMax fits into that category.

Bought three different fish feeds today.

Sportsman Choice Trophy Fish (Cargill) (compare to Purina GFC with multiple pellet size for multiple species)
$14.49 for 25# ($.58/#) (Tractor Supply Co.)
36% protein, 4% fat

Sportsman Choice Floating Pond and Catfish Food (Cargill)
$17.99/40# ($.45/#) (Tractor Supply Co.)
32% protein, 4% fat

Catfish Supplement 32(sinking) Land O'Lakes Purina Feed LLC
$20.00/50# ($.40/#) (local Coop)
32% protein, 2% fat

Have previously bought the Land O'Lakes floating 32% from the coop and as I recall was around the same price per # as the Sportsman Choice.

They only had 4-25# bags of the 36% protein stuff. Would have bought more and none of the 32% floating if they would have had more. I like to mix in a small portion of the sinking food as I don't believe all my fish come to the surface for the floating and I like to feed some on the windward shore when it is windy and the floating just floats up on the bank, thus at least the sinking gets down to where the fish can eat it. I never feed a large percentage of sinking to make sure it gets cleaned up. Another TSC store is supposed to call me when they get some 36% in. It is marketed as a multi-species feed and has multiple size pellets kind of like Purina Game Fish Chow and I think is supposed to be Cargill's comparable product only the Purina GFC is only 32%.

BG and CC are my target species for the feed. Don't know if any LMB or RES are getting any. FHM also eat.

Also consider Rangen. They have a broad range of Aquaculture foods, and the better products use fish protein. They are headquartered I think in Utah, but I go to their plant in Angleton, TX, south of Houston. Rangen.com

I'm also trying Rangen, I am seeing good results and will know after this summer.

I picked up five bags of 500, five of 600 and one of 400 this week. Backorder on the Largemouth. Didn't seem to be any issue getting it.

Looking at the Rangen website, I'm curious which feed to get for SMB, YP, and RES?
Koi food?
Thx

Rangen has a production facility in Angleton, just south of Houston, Texas. From what I could tell, their rainbow trout mix looks like it would put weight fast on BG, as it is high in protein and fat.

Don't know how costs compare with Aquamax, but if it is all comparable that would be a big plus. Always good to have competition.

Still would like to hear more about the new stuff in Pennsylvania that enhances fish growth, eating, and even life expectancy.

Still waiting on my Skretting. No fault of the company, but FedEx has some rather curious delivery procedures.

I'm curious why dog food would not serve as a source of protein and fat for fish?

My brother who researched various types of dog food felt that one of the highest protein and fat dog foods is made by Diamond Naturals. IT is sold through specialty pet stores and through the Menards chain.

I found their Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete ($.75/pound) has:
Chicken and rice formula specifically formulated with optimal levels of protein and fat to fuel your hard-working dog
Also designed to meet the needs of growing puppies and pregnant or nursing dogs
Made with 32% protein and 25% fat for balanced nutrition
Contains glucosamine and chondroitin to promote proper joint health
Balanced omega fatty acids promote healthy skin and coat

They also have a Diamond Naturals Hi-Energy Sporting Dog ($.46/pound) has:

Increase levels of vitamins and trace minerals for active sporting and hunting dogs
Made with 24% protein and 20% fat for balance and increased energy
Chelated minerals are more readily absorbed for excellent nutrition
Naturally preserved for freshness and taste

So dog food has in some cases as much protein as premium fish food but seems to have more fat (maybe this is why it is bad for fish?)

Probably the pellet size is a drawback for small fish but maybe if they pick away at the pellet as it softens, or you presoften it I wonder how things would go?

Just curious!

32% would be on the low end of the scale for fish. 32 would be catfish food. A lot of the pond owners are using feeds in excess of 40% protein.

32% fish food runs around .40 per pound.

I finally got my AM600 this Saturday. It took about 4 weeks, but I got it. I usually can get my stuff from this guy in 2 weeks so just fyi it is taking a bit longer for sure!

RC

Does the higher fat content in dog food pose any problems for fish?

I believe 20-25% lipids would be a problem for fish. Recall some papers saying there's an upper limit. If work isn't too swamped today may go see if I can find them again. Seems like max 16% rattles in the back of my brain.

edit: Yup, we've been over this:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=400263

Thanks, that helps. I did find some articles indicating fat deposition in the gut of fish, liver too.

I'm checking with our local coop too.

The Skretting is here. And thanks to the incredible generosity of a good friend here on the forum, I received an additional two bags. Many thanks!

Looking forward to trying this stuff out.

Generally speaking food made specifically for a certain species is going to be formulated best for that species.

On the other hand, it makes a lot of difference if a person is only hand feeding a small portion of the fish total diet mostly for entertainment purposes, or if the fish is in a tank and totally dependent on that food for survival. If a person is only hand feeding a small amount of the fishes total diet, lots of different things can be used. Heck BG and GSF love to eat bread torn up in small pieces. But bread is very low in protein and I imagine is a very poor feed for the fish. But a few slices of bread torn up in bits and thrown into the pond is not going to change much in the scheme of things and is exciting for kids to do. But I would bet if a person got up to the level of ten pounds of bread per acre per day (ten pounds is a number Bill Cody had told me that if exceeded could easily run into water problems so that is why I chose that number for an example) it would not be a good thing.

So if I had some dog food on hand and no other feed and wanted to see if the fish would eat some for entertainment purposes, I would throw a little in. But I doubt it would be the best for the fish or the most economical food source for the fish on a sustained basis.

I bet your local farm Coop will have 32% catfish food. After learning what I have here on PBF, it is not the best fish food in the world but I bet it is better than alternatives made for other species of animals. And it is pretty reasonable in price. It is what I have fed mostly because it is what is readily available, and my fish have seem to have done pretty well, at least by my standards. That said, I am attempting to get some higher quality feed and currently have some 36% "Sportfish" feed. But the 32% catfish food will work, at least for supplemental recreational feeding. And you can get it at about any farm supply store.

Thanks Snrub. I will check my local tractor supply and another store that I need to stop in at (Family Farm and Home I think it is called?) There is a local farmers coop that I think has to order it but I'm checking.

yes, totally for fun for the kids. I'll use up my bag of 3.5mm steelhead food and then see what else is easy to get and affordable.

I don't mind giving the fish a treat and helping them from time to time but i really want to know what it takes to sustain naturally too. I'd like to see how the fish balance out the crayfish population for example...or the snails for that matter.

I'd love to hear from the many mechanical/inventor geniuses on this board how I could adapt a light and fan into something that would knock down the bugs at night as an alternate (and around here almost unlimited) source of protein. I think I can make a little rain shield/hood and get a light fixture in it but I'm wondering if I had a plastic filament going around like a weed whacker if it would be horizontal oriented motion below the light or above the light, or maybe vertical oriented motion, maybe a shaft with 2 vertical oriented monofilament propellers so that the bugs will be propelled down into the water on each side of the fan? I have access to computer cooling fans which might be adaptable to having some monofilaments added or the blades removed, etc.

Does anyone know if it is the light that attracts the bug or the heat or both? Is there a color light that is more important than the heat produced? that will determine what Watt bulb and how much heat the enclosure has to endure if I run it on a timer from dusk till dawn. I'm thinking of mounting it inside a upside down clear storage tote.

You mean like this?

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=29929

I have Bojo fishing light - they are a PB advertiser and make a rock solid product. Bulb mattered regarding light wavelength, according to the owner with whom I spoke. I suspect the protein rendered to fish is inconsequential, but it's entertaining over a beer on a warm Summer evening.

thanks for the thread sprkplug, I hadn't seen that thread. I hope all those who posted in that thread about their mounting setup will take the time to show pictures. appreciate it!

I found a pretty big supply of Aquamax near me in the St Louis/Washington Missouri area. I grabbed three bags of the max grower 600.
I asked the dealer how he had so much in stock. They said they have a customer that goes through 7 bags per day!
They have to keep him supplied, as he's a commercial fish grower. There's a guy that build a pond not too far from me a few years ago. He's got huge docks that go up and down, and aeration going all over it. I think it's the same guy that needs the 7 bags per day. He sells a lot of tilapia (I think.) commercial operation.
At least it's out there. If someone needs a bag or two let me know. I'll have to ship it or meet you near St Louis.
Jeff

Foods not formulated for fish will have different amino acids and trace elements (about the only way that I can explain it) than what is in foods not formulated for fish.

I don't know if the fish food production facility at Bell is still going, nor if it is still being spearheaded by the same core of people.

I will be trying a different food shortly, and it's not one of the ones that's been mentioned here on the forum. Can't say much more about it, but supposedly it's formulated differently to minimize the fatty liver problems that are seen on some foods, and still allow for fast growth on the fish. It IS a bit pricier than AM, but hopefully the long term growth benefits will be worth it.

As TJ mentioned, the distribution hurdle still has to be overcome.

So far so good on the Skretting. I mixed two sizes together and feed this mixture once a day, same as I do the AQ. Fish are eating well.

According to the ingredient list, I do believe that the protein source for this particular feed is more plant and poultry based, however. It does contain fishmeal and fish oil, but it's not front and center like it is on the AQ.

I hear your coat has a newfound sheen and lustre to it...any pics for us?

There are pics, but they're posted on a site that's members only, and then there's that whole auto re-billing, credit card fiasco.

It's complicated.

I understand you're also now neutrally buoyant, like a mink might be. They should tout that in their marketing collateral. Fair warning: Should I find you in my fish cages this Winter, we're going to have a serious discussion regarding appropriate behavior.

I now have mad minja abilities....you won't find me in your fish cages. Matter-of-fact, you won't find anything in those cages but water.

Is it true there is a brownie recipe on the bag?

I think so, meant for tenderfoots like ourselves. Spark prefers a more straightforward approach: Direct osmosis [or freebasing].

Any updates on the AM production issues? I just bought the last 2 bags of 600 my supplier had and she said they have had an order in for 3 weeks.

Bought 5 bags of Amax 500 Saturday and feed store was unaware of a shortage.

Like most everyone else, my Aquamax supplier is out, has been out, probably continue to be out, etc.

Stopped by Tractor Supply to see if I could fine ANYTHING. Nothing! Zilch!

An employee noticed that I was wandering around looking for something and we had an interesting conversation.

"Can I help you Sir?"

Yes, where is your fish food?"

"Are you looking for catfish food?"

"Game Fish Chow if you have it"

"No, we do not have any fish food"

"Do you no longer carry fish food or are you having trouble getting it?"

"Oh no, we still carry it but it always sells out as soon as we get some in!"

"If you sell out each week, maybe you should increase your order!"

He stood there a minute, looked up and said, " That's a good idea!"



I just shook my head and went back to the ranch.

FWIW....I order 15 bags at a time about 2x/year of Aquamax 500.

Like most of you, my supplier has not been able to get any this year. Today he called to say that he finally reached someone from Land-O-Lakes who read to him from an email something akin to the following:

"We expect to have 3 truckloads into Richmond, Ind, hopefully by May 26th. Then we will transfer some to the Harrisburg, PA facility. So, for you folks in VA and other areas serviced by Harrisburg, don't expect to see any Aquamax until mid-June."

My supplier called today. She has been ordering my AQ every week for some time now, but no dice. Today was no different....she wanted to know if she should keep trying, or if I was ready to throw in the towel. Said there was no indication when, or if they would be able to get product.

I asked her to please keep trying. Got plenty of Skretting feed on hand, but would like to get back to Purina, if they would just make an honest effort to supply product.

If my supplier info is correct, it should be close to you at the Richmond IN plant o/a May 26th

Is it possible to buy direct from the factory? It is only a 45 min drive from where I live. Next question is it cheaper than going through a retailer?

I just picked up a couple of bags of Aquamax 2000 in Hawaii. Supplier said they had the 500 also in stock. I guess I'll find out next time I go to buy if there is a shortage.

I called my supplier for some yesterday. and they said next week. We'll see how that goes!!!!!!!!

Just 4 posts, and already far smarter than a TSC employee!

Got my 500 in a week and the 600 took 3 weeks... Doing my best to get the pond better balance and ween them off a little bit, but dang are they hungry this year..

Hi All, I talked with the distributor for Jakes Feed in Longview Tx. He said the issue was simply this, Purina just had a snafu in start up of spring supply needs in the south. He said that Purina is supporting the Aquamax product and that Purina shut down a plant and had to find additional suppliers. He said they have started, although late, to fill the demand. He said that about 3 weeks is what they see as the distribution chain will be full or much closer to full. they have the game fish and already are making the 600, then 500 and 400 about the same time.

For us in Tx. I did speak with Rangen in Angleton Tx. and they have several floating products that are in the family of Aquamax (fishmeal) feed. He said they have 1/8" 3/10" 1/4" and 3/8" Floating, a 40% protein,10% fat called EXTRA 40. They have another 45% product and I forgot to write down the fat content,in 1/16 and 3/32" sizes. He said they are not set up for retail but will not turn away retail, if a retail customer has a tax free number.

I have cut back on my feed distribution amount in hopes that the Purina supply chain will improve dramatically in the next week or two. If that does not happen then I will go elsewhere for my little bit of business.

The Purina distributor guy was nice and said that during meetings Bob L. had voiced displeasure to say the least and as far as he was concerned this Snafu will most likely not happen again. He said he does want happy customers and Purina does too.

Hope this little bit of info helps someone make a decision. I will let everyone know when I see it in East TX. and hopefully it will start showing up everywhere else too.

As a non-user of the products, I will be curious to see if the prices go up in the next year or so after so many folks have let them know you're loyal to, and more importantly dependent on, their products. You going to quit using if the price goes up a few dollars a bag?

I will not be impacted by the cost if you are asking me. I would always consider other Feeds if the product quality is close to the Purina Fishmeal based products and somewhat cheaper. I have read and been told that fishmeal based products are just what they are due to the catch rates and cost of the menhaden fish used to produce the feeds and it just is what it is.

One of the main reasons I chose to use the Aquamx product is Bob recommends it, 2nd my fish biologist said it is a good product, 3rd from what I read it is as good as they come at this point and time, 4th one only has about 6 years at best to get all the growth you can out of my focus fish CNBG and I want them as big as possible.5th possibly some less waste from the fish due to better conversion rates.

I may be way off base here but that is what I have basically gleaned from the materials I have read and the post from experts here on PB.

I can say just a bit over 2 years out, with great genetics and good feed a CNBG can get big and PHAT!! I have some.

My AM supplier informed me this morning that my AM600 is in, but no AM500 yet. He is checking to see if the AM500 will become available or not. If not, I guess that I'll be getting more of the AM600 in its place.

I was just glad to hear that part of my order has finally come in (placed this order in early April), as I was down to 1/2 bag of leftover AM600 in the feeder as of this weekend.

Will be interesting to see if the price stayed the same or increased. Guess that I'll find out when I go pick it up.

I just received this email from Customer Service at Purina..

"Thank you for using Purina feeds. AquaMax has been back ordered due to plant being shut down and consolidated into one plant. Since they had to update some of the machinery for the products. They are in the process of getting back up to speed. By the end of June dealers will be fully stocked once again. If you have questions, please let me know."

It's hard to find any around here right now. (Eastern Missouri) hopefully by the end of June things will be back to normal.

I know we've been having some issues with Purina, but some are having more issues than us.

Recently, a retired friend of mine (no names will be provided) was at his local Winn-Dixie buying a large bag of Purina Dog Chow for his dog. As he was in the check-out line, a woman behind him asked if he had a dog. What did she think... maybe he he had an elephant, maybe he couldn't get any Aquamax!

Being the friend many of us know, on impulse he told her
that no, he didn't have a dog, he was starting the Purina Diet again.

He added that he probably shouldn't, because he ended up in the hospital
last time, but that he'd lost 50 pounds before he awakened in an intensive care ward with tubes coming out of most of my orifices and IVs in both arms.

He told her that it was essentially a perfect diet and that the way
it works is you load your pants pockets with Purina Nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry. The food is nutritionally complete, so it works well, and he was going to try it again. He said that practically everyone in line was now enthralled with his story.

Horrified, she asked if he ended up in intensive care because the dog
food poisoned him. He told her no. He stopped to pee on a fire hydrant and a car hit him.

He thought the guy behind her was going to have a heart attack, he was
laughing so hard. Winn-Dixie won't let my frend shop there anymore.

Hahaha! I almost spit coffee out my nose!

laughing tears over here, that was the best one I've heard in a long time!!

I have been having problems getting the aquamax made with the menhaden. I can get a fish food made with chicken as the primary ingredient from muenster feed mill. Is anyone familier with it? Can anyone comment on it as being good or bad? I hope Bob Lusk comments on this since it is made not far from his house.

James; Sent you a PM.

Purina dropped the ball y'all. But there are alternatives:

I can ship Cargill 1/8" and/or 1/4" 45% protein, 12% fat diet anywhere in the country, and it is a higher quality product than the Purina Aquamax anyway. Flat rate shipping is $20 per bag via Fedex. Feed cost is $39 per 50lb bag.

Also I am taking contact info for anybody interested in getting a larger pellet similar to the Purina Largemouth diet. If you are interested then please send private msg or email to todd@overtoncentral.com When we get enough orders for largemouth pellets we will have Cargill make the product.

I have ordered a bag of Melick Aquafeed from right here in PA, 42/16 in 7.5 mm size, cost was 28.50 for the feed, $28 to ship plus sales tax, gotta be close to $60 for 50 lb to my door. I have 200 lbs of grower 600 on back order. My local co op has very poor service anyway and I am seeking alternatives at this point. Anyone ever use Melick?

Business is business, I understand we are a small market compared to cats and dogs, but what kind of moron shuts down a fish food factory to re-tool in the spring of the year? That is a November project anywhere in the country. It's like a candy cane factory closing at Thanksgiving, dumb move any way you look at it.

Supplier called yesterday, no AQ this week either. Maybe next week.....

My 500 and 600 came in yesterday and my supplier said there is lots in the Dallas warehouse now.
They are still waiting on the 400.

Just got my feed today!!!! So from the time I placed the order till now is 2 weeks. I feel lucky, it seems some of you have been waiting longer than that.

Nine weeks and counting.

Received a call from my supplier today, Aquamax is in East Tx.

I have great respect for the Melick feed, and have literally used tons of it. However, to do so, we usually ordered a minimum of a "pup trailer" load - which is a 28-foot semi-trailer load. If there were other orders in our area, we would sometimes get one-third to one-half of a 48-foot or 53-foot trailer load. All was in 50 lb. bags on pallets. That was all we could reasonably store.

These feeds were always very high quality, and we were able to achieve incredible conversion rates with various sinking feeds for trout in large spring-fed concrete raceways.

We had very similar results with another company out of PA -- Zeigler Brothers, Inc. There too, we were buying full 28-foot pup trailers, or half of 48 to 53 foot trailer loads.

I broke down yesterday and got two bags of Cargill Sportsman's Choice TropyFish feed from Tractor Supply. It felt kind of like substituting tofu and Portobello mushrooms for a holiday cookout of Japanese Kobi beef.

But, that is what I had to choose from. Our two local Purina suppliers are far less than helpful for the small amount of food we individually buy. To me, it is a chicken and egg issue. I don't want to wait 2-4 weeks for a delivery that may or may not arrive. They don't want to stock something I won't pick up because it takes so damn long to get it into a store 30 miles away.

Based on the specs and ingredient list, what I bought yesterday seems similar, but a little inferior to the generic fish food I get at our local farm co-op for about 1/2 the Cargill price. Both show crude protein at a minimum of 36%. The Cargill crude fat is listed at a minimum of 4%, vs., the 6% for the generic. The Cargill crude fiber is listed at a maximum of 7% vs. 5.5% for the generic.

These are not at protein/ingredient levels I want. The products show animal protein either first (generic) or fourth (Cargill). The rest is grain and chemicals in both. I have no idea what "animal protein" might be. But there are many millions of chickens within a 25 mile radius of my place. About 200,000 to 250,000 usually reside less than a mile downstream from my place. They go to a processing plant about 30-40 miles away. Each day, many tractor trailer loads of feathers go off for processing from the main plant. It is just my guess that chicken feathers are a major part of the "animal protein."

I'm thinking we may now be a big enough US-lower-48 group, with clout and enough storage capacity, to start our own co-op to serve what I perceive as a rather large private water owners group in the lower 48.

I've got about a 2000 square foot climate-controllable unused building on our farm, with its own 200 amp power service, telephone/DSL, water well, concrete floor, and well insulated walls. I'm about a mile off US Route 50, 15 miles from I-81 which is the major north-south transit route for drugs, moonshine, illegal cigarettes, and many legal shipments between the northeast and the gulf coast. I'm pretty close to where the west end of I-66 connects to I-81. I-66 connects I-81 to Washington DC and I-95, the other major east coast north-south transportation route from Florida to Maine.

I really don't want to go back into business or go back to a job. I'm loving retirement. But, maybe several of us could think about starting a non-profit regional delivery co-op, for various hard-to-get aquaculture supplies, to satisfy the market for high quality private waters products. Many of the wealthiest of the wealthiest in the world own farms within 50 miles east of me. They own huge farms, with trophy horses, the best of the best cattle, and many have multiple ponds they like to use for relaxation.

This may be something that shouldn't be on the PB forum -- at least not right now. I'm looking at this as a neutral production, where it is neither a money-making nor a money-losing venture. However, I see it as something that can help us all.

Send me a PM with your ideas. Maybe as a group we can do something to make our water/fish management more scientific and less stressful for all of us.

Just my feeble thoughts.

Ken

I have 4 lakes and have been feeding the 600 as well as the chunks. Now I can't get anything and I am feeding catfish feed. I am raising Hybrid a Stripe Bass and LMB.
In 5 years they are now in the 7 lb range. I am afraid I will lose some growth on them. I am upset but there is nothing I can do. Sure disappointed in Purina. Hope someone steps in and fills the gap.

We are very pleased with Cargill fish feed for growth and condition of our HSB and CNBG for the past few years since AQMX began providing inconsistant quality and service.
Don't have the specs on hand for the feed since son Jeff takes care of the feed business, but it is comparable to the old reliable AQMX we used for many years.

We are very fortunate in our area having Overton Fisheries nearby to pick up as needed. Others in area have it delivered in large quantities.
G/

Sounds like you could do a higher $/volume buisness than fish food with those facilities, Mr. G.

I am about done with Purina's exhibiting a complete lack of interest over the last 2-3 years in consistently supplying a quality fish food anymore. Quality has been VERY inconsistent, customer service has become almost non-existent, and supply is spotty at best with no correction or explanations given or seen on the horizon.

Skettering Nelson's Silver/Gold Cup and Cargill have quality feeds, want the market share in smaller pond feed sales, and have supplies....maybe it's time to make a switch

You are so right Mr G. Thank goodness for Todd. Had problems with Purina with rabbit food. Found out that they ain't the only game in town.

We've been feeding Skretting for several weeks now, and the LMB, HBG, CC, and YP seem to take it just fine. The HSB and BG are a little different story.

Be aware also that Skretting has several different product formulations, and not all utilize a fish based protein source.

+1. I get my menhaden based Skretting from my fish farm. I called Skretting several weeks back out of curiosity. You need to order 5 ton minimum before the mill will run the good stuff for you. Skreting primarily caters to fish farms as they have about zero distribution network in the US. They are relatively new to the US market. They bought out Silvercup. My impression was that you can count their entire US office staff on two fingers and a toe!

Ten weeks after initial order....checked with feed supplier today, still no joy.

My feed store called Tuesday and said that they had some.

Want to make a trip up North?

Or LMK what you want. I should be down in your area stocking a pond within 2 weeks.

This Aquamax issue is just so unfortunate.

I met a fish truck this morning at about 7:00 AM, with their schedule showing them to be ready to start filling orders by 7:30 AM. I was at least 15th in line, even though I was 30 minutes early. This truck, and their main competitor, show up alternate weeks at competing farm supply outlets in our area. There are also several who do direct pond stocking.

By the time I placed my order with the fish truck this morning, there were a lot more customers behind me. The truck had run out of fatheads by the time I was placing my order. The people ahead of me got the last of the grass carp. The guy behind me had pre-ordered about $600 worth of fish to stock a new pond. He owns several other ponds. So, by about 8:00 AM, this truck was already very low on stock, with the rest of today and tomorrow before they can restock without affecting their schedule. The driver and his helper looked stressed. My guess is that they would not be able to complete deliveries today and tomorrow due to demand for pond fish.

What this has been leading to is that we have thousands of ponds in my area. Many are in the very wealthiest counties in the US.

We are also a pretty significant agricultural area that uses huge amounts of animal feed.

I don't know what the local market really is, but I sure see a lot of fish feed being sold when I'm in farm supply stores. I use a meager 40-60 lbs., per month - but im just one of very many. I figure I'm just one of a group that extends well into the thousands, of people like me within about a 25 mile radius, who rely on high quality fish feed.

How Purina can still be ignoring us, after several years of people like me wanting their nearly unobtainable Aquamax products, is unbelievable.

Enough!

IMHO decisions today are made by the finance people in big corporations (I work for one). Someone got a big bonus and maybe a promotion for this idea. Rest assured, Purina will come out on top and loyal customers will flock back. 2 years from now, nobody will remember what they did. Just my 2 cents.

My fish are enjoying the Melick feed at the moment, the co-op called and my grower 600 is in so I will pick that up. I dealt with big corporations for a number of years, specifically with money people, and that part may be true. I will not forget what they did in two years though, and am always looking for alternatives, have found a couple too.

Aquamax SportFish 600 was the only high protein feed any feed store carried within a 30 min drive (furthest I checked) of where I live. My fish would eat pondfish 2000 OK, but won't hardly eat gamefish chow (main thing anyone carried).

Also, I really like the AM LMB.

I've contacted everyone in my area to find an alternative to AM 600 if/when the supply runs dry again.

My local dealer FINALLY got in some 600 in today (that I've had ordered since April).

I received an email yesterday from my Purina dealer in Bowling Green Mo. He's got AM 500 in for me. Not sure if it's from earlier production, or the new plant. I'll pick it up Saturday and see.

Success here also. Just got a call, and my AQ is here. Eleven weeks after ordering.

And I'll have food for you next week Tony! Matt and I will drop it off when I drive by.

Excellent!!

Read an article today about the 'invasive blue catfish' being a big problem. They are trying to find ways to use a huge amount of unwanted catfish meat. Could they turn that back into a high protein source for fish food rather than using menhaden? Obviously fish don't mind eating other fish in the form of pellets..

That horrid invasive blue catfish....

I've wondered the same thing about Silver Carp.

I finally get the AQ in, and now my fish won't eat anything but the new feed Scott and Matt brought me. Figures.

IMHO if fish food is a primary product of the company that makes the feed they brought you, stick with it!

Same report here Tony. That feed Scott introduced me to is like fish crack to my BG, PS, and GSF. It took them couple of days to switch but now its all they want.

What is it?

Sunfish specific food. The guys that make it were concentrating on the aquaculture industry for a long time, and are good at it. They will do necropsies, blood tests and other testing on fish to determine what to add or remove on the fish food to make it as efficient as possible. Less food going out the south end of the fish means better water quality and more efficient food conversion by the fish.

Matt got them to look into the pond industry. For Aquaculture they make food that is fish species specific, and this food is sunfish specific. I'm working on getting a bag of Largemouth specific food.

The biggest thing is working out the distribution system, i.e. shipping.

The pellets aren't "pellets", they look more like worms. The food works in Texas Hunter, Stren AquaPro and Diamond feeders - I've tried it in all 3. Sunfish that aren't pellet trained seem to train easier on this food. But, because of the weird pellet shape, pellet trained fish have to learn all over again - they don't recognize it as "food". Catmandoo said he has RES eating it.

Tony, I told you that your fish were weird!!!

Very cool esshup. I would be interested in purchasing it in the future. Odd shape may help the angler as well when pellet trained fish are hard to catch.

Esshup, I'd be interested too!

AQ500 on left, the new stuff on right.




It's curious. At first, my fish wouldn't eat it. HBG, native BG, nothing. They were trying to, but would pick a "pellet" and reject it...I watched a northern BG pick up and spit out the same piece of this feed six times before giving up. Interest in the feed was immediate, but what I'm calling the "mouth feel" just didn't seem to be what they expected. Finally, I resorted to hydrating the feed....man alive what a difference. I have witnessed the most aggressive feeding responses over the last 4-5 days, that I've ever personally experienced. The northern BG are literally boiling the water to get this stuff. I'm currently feeding twice the amount than I do with AQ, and they would eat more, but I'm shutting them off every night.

After feeding last night they of course wanted more, so I fed unhydrated AQ500. Nada. They would swim up and inspect, and them pass. I fed more of the hydrated new feed, and the water rolled.

To be fair, the hydration quality may be the deciding factor. I have always been a huge fan of feeding softened feed, but have gotten away from the practice this past couple years. I need to hydrate some AQ and do a head-to-head.

Also, the LMB and HSB don't feed on it very well, at least for me. I feed them AQ. The YP seem to have no problems.

And last but not least, my HBG are slow to accept it. They're beginning to feed better, but not nearly as well as the northern BG do.

I'm going through this stuff real quick. Cannot seem to get enough on the water to satisfy the fish.

Found this online. Has this been evaluted/debated on the forum yet? If so feel free to point me to the link. Is this a regional only fish food? Any personal reports to share in using it?

Fish food 50 pound bags, good or bad?

Your fish will probably eat the Farmers Choice 32% fish food but don't expect optimum results as far as the best growth rates. The lower quality feeds of 32% protein usually result in more fish manure and less aggressive feeding response. Digestibility of the food and nutrition gained are important parts of good quality fish feed. Choosing a fish food is dependent on how much value you place on the overall quality of your fishery.

Tony:

If you can, can you try hydrating some of the AM food and see what their response is to it? I'm curious if the response is to the "feel", or to the shape of the pellet.

I know you have a lot of other brands of food on hand, but I'll be in Jasonville tomorrow and could throw another bag or 2 in the truck if you want.

Thanks Scott. I'm thinking the same way - I need to establish what and where the attraction lies. I'll hydrate some AQ this evening.

Thanks for the offer. I'm tempted to take you up on it, but I do need to use the feed I have on hand. I'm curious as to how they will transition back to Purina and Skretting, after getting used to the new feed. If things continue as I hope, I see myself switching over completely to the new stuff once I get all this current feed used up.

Hydrated AQ500 this evening, by way of comparison. No contest....the northern BG ate it, but response was lackluster when compared to the last few evenings. The HBG fed well, better than they have on the new feed.

After I finished scattering the AQ, I went back with some hydrated new feed in the native BG ponds and business picked up. It seems more evident that my northern BG much prefer the new food over the AQ, but I think it's still too early to call it conclusive.

Nevertheless, I find myself wishing I didn't have three bags of AQ500 to use up. If the claims of better nutrition and longer BG lifespans hold up for the new feed, I see myself switching brands. I'm also thinking I will leverage my decision to hand feed vs. automatic feeder, by hydrating whatever I feed from now on. I think the fish take it better, and that's what it's all about in my eyes....getting the feed into the fish, not just on top of the water.

Tony my experience is in line with yours. My fish have preferred hydrated pellets over dry since I started feeding 8 years ago, without exception, every species, every time. I find when fish appear satiated on dry pellets, they will continue to hammer slowly sinking hydrated pellets until they literally regurgitate them. My fish are especially fond of AM LMB formula as they hydrate quickly, I rip off a portion, and toss into cages or around the dock. I'd say my fish have historically preferred hydrated over dry by at least a ratio of 10:1. In my experience, even at ice out when nothing but GSH are taking dry pellets, all fish will eat hydrated - at least a little, but reject floating dry food.

do fish have a sense of taste? The hydrating may give a change in texture or how it feels when they grab it but i wonder if it releases the 'taste' from the inside once it is soft? how does a bluegill know a real worm from a fake one, taste? scent? feel? texture?

Like others here in the E Texas area, George1 and Pat, I was picking up Cargill fish food from Overtons. It was a 7 hr round trip for me. Walt (Overtons) mentioned they could get it delivered to me direct. So I tried a 20 sk delivery. Boy OH Boy, did those 20 sks go fast !! 3 Texas feeders will throw out some feed ! And the CNBG will eat it as fast as it hits the water. So, I placed a full pallet order (50 sks) and it arrived yesterday, (1 day after I placed the order) and delivered it right to the barn. The only problem is I have back problems and so I am waiting for my grandson to help stack it in the barn.
Cargill 1/8" Triton, A blue colored 50lb sk.
Crude protein Min. 45%
Crude fat Min. 12%
Crude fiber Max. 3.0%Phosphorus Min 0.9%
Feeding directions "it depends" is printed right on the sk, Haha, where have I herd that before?
Concern's? Do not overfeed, overfeeding will result in oxygen depletion of the water. I am not sure about this warning on the sk. My Overtons CNBG seam to eat most everything that hits the water and what is not eaten by those fish are eaten by the FHM and crawfish. I have watched the big crawfish put the feed in their mouth and it looks like I have good crawfish numbers for now, but the CBLMB, recently introduced, should put a hurt on them in the next few months.
So if you might think I am over feeding, I am trying to get my CNBG big fast and reproducing fast so I might get those CBLMB in the double digest ASAP

Tracy

Ordered 6 bags of 500/600 and got them to the feed store I use in North Mississippi in a week.The 500 was definitely a lighter color than my earlier order but the 600 had the rich dark color as before.Hope this isn't a quality issue but it did surprise me a little

TJ, up until a couple years ago, I fed hydrated feed every night. I slowly got away from doing so, as it is messy and takes longer. But watching my fish feed these past few days has caused me to rethink that strategy.

I was asking Scott when he was here the other night, "is this new feed the missing link?...is this the final piece of the puzzle needed to produce 2lb bluegills in our ponds with any sense of "regularity"? If a feed can promote longer lifespans and improved fish health, will that translate into a longer time period in which to feed, and grow bigger? I think it should, which leaves me to try and figure out how to best use that to my advantage.

I'm thinking hydrated feed is more palatable, and more readily consumed in quantity. Especially for younger, smaller fish, during those all-important early growth years. It's easy to feed bigger bluegills, but the future, potential trophy status belongs to those smaller fish. I need to de everything I can to get that feed into those fish.

Just got our 4 bags of AM600 in this week here in south central Nebraska.

I picked up one bag of AM600 2 days ago here, made in MN, 41% protein according to the label. My YP, SMB, RES, and GSH seem to like it much better than the Sportsman Choice from TSC that they have been eating lately.

I haven't been able to get AM LMB since April. I have orders out at 3 purina dealers in the area...

I'm starting to get impatient because it's the only feed I can really get past my bluegill and only to my FT LMB and HSB.

The best I can do is throw like a gallon of AM 500/600 or so all together from a bucket and have it sit on the water thick. Otherwise the bluegill win.

Also supplies of 500 and 600 haven't been consistent and I'm having to use 500 a lot because the 600 isn't in.

Very frustrating, but if I could get a different feed locally, I would. I may have to drive to Overtons (6 hour trip for me) and try the Cargill feed.

Reports from home say I finally got the Aquamax 500 ordered months ago. Grandson has been feeding the fish for me, so don't know how they like it yet.

I got two bags of the 500 the other day. I dumped in a bag on top of a small amount of mixed 400 & 600. The feeder was jammed the next time I looked. The 500 had some big blocks of clumped together feed. I went through the feeder putting everything into 5 gal buckets. I threw a bunch away. It didn't look right. I am not sure if it was like that when I dumped it in or not. I'm going to look through the second bag of 500 as I put it in the feeder, and make sure there are zero clumps. If so, I'm taking it back to the dealer. I don't know if it's new production, or something older that they found. The YP love it though.. They are small, and can't take the 600.

Taylor
My CNBG love the Cargill from overtons I buy the 1/4and 1/8 and mix so all sizes can eat
I use the 4512

I fed the last of the new feed on Monday, so now I'm back to AQ500. The HBG are taking the AQ readily, but the northern BG are finding the transition difficult. I'll broadcast the feed, and they'll swarm it initially, but quickly recognize it's not what they've grown accustomed to eating. They leave it on the water while following me down the dam, hoping I'll toss something more to their liking. They will eventually begin cleaning it up, but without the enthusiasm they've shown over the last few weeks.

Not that long ago I was desperate to get AQ. Not so much, now.

I just purchased 4 bags of 500, 6 bags of 600, and 3 lmb AM at Coop in NE.

The 500 is same dimension as my previous feed, but much lighter in color. No big deal I hope.

The 600 is about 1/3 smaller than my all the 600 I've ever bought. It's almost like they cut the original pellet 2/3 down, and one side is completely flat - it's no longer a rounded cube. I don't know why.

The LMB is much darker brown and again is about 1/3 smaller - it's now in a rounded cube like an oversized 600 pellet of it's former dimension. I fed it and the SMB and HSB seemed not to mind. I did notice it takes 2x longer to hydrate than my original LMB formula. The bag is no longer plain brown bag, it's now in packaging just like the 500 and 600.

I've been buying AM for 8 years and the feed dimensions have never changed. Seems that if they were going to alter the shape and size of the pellets, they would announce it in some manner, in order to manage their customer's expectations. I suppose this is to be expected, however, since AM generates such insignificant revenue for a conglomerate like Land O Lakes.

Has anyone else experienced different sized/shaped pellets?

I'm also finding the 500 to be light in color when compared to previous (last year's) product.

The "worm" looking feed looks that way because that is how it comes directly out of the extruder. The extruder compresses the feed using a screw and squirts it out an extruder plate with holes the size of the feed you see on the right. Then a rotating cutter is set to cut to the approximate length.

That is information I gained years ago watching a portable soybean extruder working at a farm show. How they get the AQ fish pellets round I don't know but my guess would be that after it comes out an extruder it goes into a tumbler while the feed is still hot (extruding creates tremendous heat) and tumbles it round.

Maybe someone involved in the feed business can give a better explanation.

My fish seem to like the AQ500 after eating only 32% or 36% feed previously.

If you look closely at the AM feed, you can see that it's still a "tube" shape, just cut about as long as it is wide.

Locally available is Zeigler Silver and the G, which may be Gold.

HBG scarf it down without hydration, and the ones that sink, the FHM clean up really well.

We have been using Aquamax for years now, both the 500 and 600, but our dealer said that he could no longer get it, no possible dates in the future were given to him, so we had to switch to the Game Chow. Still a good food I suspect ( still expensive, albeit not as much as the real thing ) but I have noticed a distinct last of oder compared to the other stuff, it was very "fishy" smelling....this stuff....not so much. We are way out in the Ozarks of MO and have very limited dealerships available to us within driving range, but when I called the only "city" to speak of 120 miles away, they told me the same thing. Wish the news was better, sorry....