Hey everyone out there who feeds fish I have a question. I have been feeding my fish for about 2 months now. It been going pretty good. I feed for 2 sec. in the morning and 2 in the evening. Has anyone have issues with not being able to catch fish or seems to be harder to catch fish once you start a feeding program?? The last couple times we went we could hardly get a bite with a worm and I have yet to catch another HSB. I would have thought it would be easier to catch them especailly around the feeder? Been using bettle spins and small meps, rapala's but to no avail?? Should I maybe drop down to 1 feeding a day? Are my fish to satisfied now maybe? Do I actually need something that looks like a pellet now to catch my fish?

thanks,

We've all seen the catch phrase: "Fed fish are big fish", but the unwritten other half of that statement could be "Fed fish can be hard to catch fish"

I absolutely think our fish are harder to catch since implementing a feeding program. It just makes sense to me that they would be. And once you factor in a policy of catch and release combined with the feeding program, the fish get pretty tight-lipped.

Hence the popularity of pellet flies, and Stubby Steve's.

I don't know much, but at the Nebraska Pond Boss conference held a couple of weeks ago, Bob Lusk said something to the effect that "You can't feed the instinct out of them". In other words their instinct is to grab food if they see it swimming by.
Now I don't know if that applies the same to a live minnow as it does to a spinner bait.
I hope Bob read this and corrects me if I am wrong.

Once I began an assertive feeding program I have a very hard time catching anything but BG, RES, and HCP on artificials. My SMB and HSB will still hit jig/crawler, minnow or BG under a float, but it's not steady action. If I shut down the feeder for a couple days, which I rarely do, the action picks up significantly. If I want to tie into my SMB or HSB I resort to the pellet fly presentation and I have no problems catching them.

I have mixed feelings about the whole scenario.

I love the WR and apparent health of my fish that AM pellets render, and a part of me feels good that my fish are so reluctant to hit artificials which may discourage any trespassers. That last one might be a reach...

I miss being able to employ different angling strategies and having to resort to just pellet fly patterns. It doesn't require any skill to cast a AM 600 or LMB pellet out to feeding fish and hold on. So, I miss using plastics, topwaters, jigs, fly rodding with streamers/buggers or poppers.

In my fishery it's a tradeoff [high WR fish/poor angling success] unless I want to shut down the feeders - but it may be different in other ponds. Eager to hear other people's experiences on angling success on well fed pellet fisheries.

Hey TJ thanks for that bit of info. I wasn't sure if maybe I just forgot how to fish! Man there is always a negative with a positive hey! I did think about stopping the feeder also or at least backing off to one feeding per day maybe?? I enjoy watching them eat but I also enjoy catching fish too!!! Here I thought catching my fish would be easier! Hmmmm not sure about that???

One thing I'm worried about pellet pattern fishing would be unintentionally turning those fish OFF of pellets once catching them. I've read that others use that tactic purposefully to get GC or CC OFF the pellets...could it stand to reason that catching SMB and HSB on pellet pattern could have the same effect and turn them away from pellet feeding? That would be a very undesireable situation!

Tie a 500 or 600 pellet in pantyhose, tie off the top with some mono or thread, and use appropriate size hook and your fly rod and you will have success. If you dont have a fly rod, you can use a float tied 3-4' from your pellet fly to allow your some weight to cast and you'll still hook up.

Are you saying you're not catching any LMB either? Again, buffet line might be so good they are becoming very selective on what to pursue. Live bait on barbless hooks may also be an answer for you, or fishing early AM or late PM.

Yeah, I've heard similar statements a lot RC. Whenever people find out that I feed our fish, then it's like: "Well that's like shooting fish in a barrel". Not hardly. That barrel can be a whole lot bigger, and deeper, than what they envision. Even with HBG, which supposedly are always easy to catch, hooking up with one can be tough sometimes. I've got one LMB in the HBG pond that will go 3-4 lbs, and it needs to come out.....except I can't catch it. It has taken to feeding on pellets, and I can't trigger a strike. I've had my Bass fishing friends and neighbors over to try and remove it, but no luck. It simply ignores everything except AQ500.

Do I think it's impossible to catch it now? No, but I do believe it would've been caught by now had it not taken to artificial feed so readily. I think it might take a live BG to trigger a reflexive hit, or some Stubby Steve's.

Yeah spark you got that right! A lot bigger! Not sure now if it continues the way it is for this year if I want to feed next spring? Going to continue this year for sure and expeirment a little. May drop down to 1 feeding or 2, 1 second feedings?? Not sure. I know they are there and they are growing but if I can't take my kid out there to catch a fish what good is it??? Finding the right equation is the key for sure! Heck maybe this weekend was just a bad weekend to be fishing? Sometimes fish just aren't going to bite when you want them to

I have been feeding my bluegill during warm months for the last four years. Overall weight and relative weights are higher across the board. As are the weights of the largemouth bass. I do not have any trouble catching bluegill basically anywhere in the lake including around the three feeders on my three acre pond. I catch most of the bluegill right off of the dock close to one of the feeders. I just don't think feeding impacts their catchability. And the same is true of the bass. We consisitently catch bass and seldom get skunked.

Yeah maybe it was just bad timing??? I don't know. Thanks bing for that info makes me feel a little better. I got a lot of time and energy in settting up feeding my fish and the results are looking good, but I still want to be able to catch my BG with a worm and bobber if you will.

RC51, I get a lot of pleasure just sitting down on the dock and fishing with meal worms for bluegill. Since i've started feeding I now catch them regularly in the one pound range, recent lake
record 1#9oz. Catching a few good ones now and then with the smaller eating size is a great combination.

Bing, do you practice catch and release with your BG? I wonder if the size of the BOW could impact the equation any? I don't know how large RC's pond is, but my HBG pond is 2/3 acre, and the other three are all between 1/2 and 1 acre in size. I fish these ponds everyday, and I feed once a day in all 4. I can take one or two fish, then nothing....no matter what I throw. I can see the fish, but they show no further interest in my baits.

Throw a handful of AQ500 in there, and it's another story! they will boil the water, but cast into the mix...nothing.

In the early Springtime, shortly after ice-out, they are much more easily caught. I always figured that behavior was driven by hunger, and subsided somewhat once feeding began.

Hey spark that is exactly what is starting to happen in my pond just as you described. My pond is 3/4 to 1 acre. The other day we were out there and the feeder went off fish hitting the food like crazy. Throw a worm and bobber in there and not a bite!! Fish jumping all around the bobber I couldn't believe it?? Maybe it does have something to do with size of pond? I don't know I am also using AM 500/600. The fish almost act like they are getting lazy and it's to much trouble to go after your bait!! Dang it man. If it's not one thing it's another!!

RC, I think it comes down to the same idea I've seen discussed here before: Do fish have the capacity to learn?? I tend to believe they do, and I think what I'm seeing in my ponds may be a result of that.

I had to chuckle at your lazy fish comment, as I have wondered that exact same thing myself. Is it too much effort to pursue my bait, now that easy floating targets are distributed freely every evening? Does feeding to satiation in a smaller BOW make the fish less prone to be caught, simply because they're "full" most of the time?

I can't help but think that "Stubby Steve's" exist today because someone saw a need for the product, quite possibly due to experiencing what we are discussing right here.

I have always found big LM were easier to catch in other BOW when it's colder-Feb./March. I didn't catch large numbers but the fish were considerably larger. As it warmed May/June the large fish just didn't bite as well. It seems in my pond that the fish have become hook shy, sometimes switching to something different they haven't seen in awhile helps. But I'm also a big believer in moon phase too. If the phase isn't right I just don't catch as many fish, if any at all.

I think my pond is 180° from you guys experience. I don't have a problem catching BG/LMB/RBT in my pond. Just yesterday I went out with a #4 hook, 6# Fluro and a dzn nightcrawlers. I caught 5 LMB in 7 casts sight fishing. The 2 that I removed from the pond (not tagged and I didn't bring the tape measure/scale to the pond) were 16" 2.68# and 15.5" 2.48#.

My neighbor has been catching LMB (and a couple RBT) on a #4 Mepps spinner with a red/white blade.

Esshup,
How often do you feed your fish? Once, twice a day? How many seconds?

thx,

Hey spark sounds like you and I are fishing out of the same pond!!

I can't help but think that "Stubby Steve's" exist today because someone saw a need for the product, quite possibly due to experiencing what we are discussing right here.

This is EXACTLY why Stubby Steve's came to be... Steve fed his fish the best fish food, gave them the most beautiful place to live and thrive, asked nothing more of them but to be caught on a hook every now and then.... and they proved to be stubborn! He did the same thing you guys mentioned... if someone wanted to catch fish at his place he'd stop feeding for a few days!!! Then he decided to accomplish the better option of "matching the hatch" for his own pond. Stubby Steve's.

We feel we are a natural partnership with the bigger fish food companies but it's difficult to get them to "think outside the box"... it only makes sense that they are losing money from less food being fed due to less fish being caught due to more finicky fish liking their fish food rather than other food available.... (that was a mouthful!)

This is one of my favorite articles by Bryan Brasher from "The Commercial Appeal".... he seems to be fishing from "the same pond" as many of us!


"A couple of weeks ago, I got an e-mail from a buddy who said I just had to try one of the great new creations from the fishing tackle industry.
He said it was called "Stubby Steve's Artificial Fish Food Lure," and I knew right away that I had to have some.
I didn't know what it was or even what kind of fish it was designed to catch.
But with a name like that, I knew surely it must be dynamite.
Turns out, Stubby Steve's Artificial Fish Food Lure is a perfect imitation of the same floating fish food that pond owners all over America are using to feed bluegill, catfish and a variety of other privately raised species.
Those of you who own a pond with an automatic feeder must know how valuable a bait like that can be.
You see, when fish are raised in a pond and fed a consistent diet of premium floating pellet food, they sort of lose a taste for primitive fishing baits like crickets and worms.
Wouldn't you?
I mean, if you had your choice between a store-bought delicacy or a dead, waterlogged bug, which one would you eat?
Once those fish develop a taste for the finer things in life, they can be ridiculously difficult to catch -- and trust me, there's nothing more frustrating than getting skunked on a pond that you built, by fish that you've spent hard-earned money fattening up. Now, Stubby Steve's is the perfect solution for fish that refuse to bite the hand that feeds them.
The folks who made this stuff claim that it "smells more like fish food than fish food" -- and if you leave a bag of it open in your truck overnight, you'll see what they mean.
It looks, smells and floats just like floating pellet food, but it's spongy so it'll fit easily onto any hook. It's such a perfect match that fish simply can't tell the difference.
I've already used it in the pond behind my house to catch bluegill until I was just tired of catching them.
I used it in another private pond to catch channel catfish the other day, and I'm convinced it'll fool any species that was raised in a pond or hatchery.
That means no more frustrating days during the winter trying to catch rainbow trout that simply aren't interested in our hand-tied flies. It means no more watching helplessly as big, fat tilapia eat everything except the bait we're dangling in front of their noses.
I've already talked with some people who think Stubby Steve's is cheating.
One guy said, "That's not fishing, that's just catching."
Some folks think it'll take a lot of the challenge out of the sport.
But honestly, who cares?
I've never heard a bass apologize for biting during practice and then disappearing on tournament day.
I've never heard a crappie say he was sorry for developing lockjaw all because of a simple change in the barometric pressure.
They'll hear no apologies from me either.
I've got a drawer full of Stubby Steve's -- and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it."



We're just proud to be a part of your fishing solution.....

Yes, I practice some degree of catch and release. I put back the very small and very large bluegill. The small ones to feed the bass and perhaps the larger bluegill, and the large ones, generally over eight inches. I keep the mid sized bluegill for dinner. I have caught many bluegill that showed obvious signs of being caught before.

Although I do not think that feeding materially changes the catchability of bluegill, sometimes when I have a lot of kids coming to the pond to fish I turn the feeder off for a day before they fish. The reason is, although I don't think feeding overall reduces the ability to catch them, I also believe that a hungry bluegill is more apt to bite than one which had been feeding recently.

RC51, I feed 2x day, and a 50# bag might last a month. Feeder times won't do much good because of different feeders throwing different rates. I've got mine set at 2 sec each feed cycle, for 4 sec/day total. (AM600)

Fish condition to people to survive just like wildlife does and we are generally too dumb to catch on. Have you ever walked up to a goose and got really close to it while strolling along normally. or maybe tried chasing it off and got really close to it! On the flip side, Have you ever tried stalking that same goose kind of like a predator or a hunter? I bet you didnt get nearly as close to it this time before it took off.

Ok its late so that anology may not have gone over so well, but my point is this. Fed fish typically learn about humans pretty quickly. They interact closely with them much more than unfed fish do. Humans come tromping along up to the pond or to the dock and the fish know you are there before you get there. Then you are watching them and they are watching you.

When an unfed fish knows you are there it will either leave or close its mouth as well- unless it is very hungry and has no choice. When a fish or animal is very hungry it simply has no choice but to eat. Come on deer hunters, hungry deer are much easier to hunt.

You want to catch fed fish consistently you need to not let them know you are there. In a smaller body of water its alot harder to stay concealed for a long amount of time, especially when a couple fish do get caught.

The larger the body of water, the easier it is to catch fed fish and I believe its a combination of all the theories discussed in this thread. I think RC if you get creative with this one you will be able to figure out a system that gives you the best of both worlds for your body of water.

In situations such as yours, I have also found it very beneficial to have several feed stations to spread the fish back out around the pond.

There is alot more going on here than what I have time to write about tonight, very interesting topic that I have spent much time studying and experimenting with on lots of lakes and ponds!

"Fed fish typically learn about humans pretty quickly" I don't wish to remove Nate's statement from its proper context, but there's that word.....learn. Fish learn. I personally believe this to be true.

Fascinating subject. Could it be that there exists a potential downside, albeit small, to feeding in a small BOW where a reasonably high, perhaps even average, catchability rate is desired?

I find that my fish are pretty well conditioned to me. When I drive my 4 wheeler to the pond and toss in food they are already there. When I sneak up on the pond I can catch fish for awhile. I can catch BG on just about anything for a short time. Then they realize that a piece of night crawler, a stubby steve or a fly has strings attached and lockjaw sets in. Yeah, they've learned.

Lighter line pays off but I do a pretty poor job of tying 2 or 4 pound line.

Here is another one for you sparkplug- I believe catch rates overall are actually higher in smaller fed bodies of water, compared to smaller unfed bodies of water. The kicker that makes this fuzzy is that expectations are much higher as well. Especially when you can see the fish feeding and not eating your offering.

Who out there is going to argue that fish don't learn? A fish that has never been caught before is very easy to catch. The second time its a bit harder and the third time even harder yet.

Also why do people think it has to be all or nothing with a supplemental feed program?

Some tips that I use for successful feed programs in smaller bodies of water to increase catch rates are: (this doesnt mean you have to do all of these, just the ones that apply to your situation, the key is to get creative to get the most for you from your pond and fish)

-Harvest Fish!

-Stock a few fish each year!

-Don't feed all year long.

-Feed a mid day feeding only certain times of the year.

-Spread the fish out by spreading out more feeders than recommended. (doesnt mean you need to increase the amount of feed)

-Once your fish are to your acceptable size feed less often.

-Make sure to focus on feeding your smallest of fish. longterm this is very important for many reasons

-****Give your fish good habitat around the whole pond so they have a reason to be elsewhere**** this one is key

-Don't educate all your fish all on the same day (sometimes you can sit in a spot and catch 50 fish when they are young and do that repeatedly and then they are all educated much quicker- especially with HSB I have seen them caught so many times when they are young and dumb and they get old and smart real quick).

Im sure others have more advice for what they do or have found to work for them

All good points Nate, and I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to respond. I can't speak for RC, but I do tend to practice some of what you suggest in your post. I feed all of my ponds by hand, as I believe it gives me the chance to adjust feed rates based on what the fish want....if they don't want to eat that particular evening, then I cut down on the feed. If they are especially aggressive, then I feed more. That kind of flexibility is just not available in a mechanical feeder.

I also feed from the entire perimeter of the HBG pond, and probably half the perimeter of the other three. Again, this is just to try and make sure I get feed in front of any fish that wants to eat. I've always done it this way, it seems to produce good results. I feed every evening during feeding season. Perhaps I should cut back.

All of this info is great! Thanks everyone for taking time to post. I guess what I expected was bigger fish and easier to catch fish??? But like you said Nate maybe my expectations were a bit high in thinking I would just grow large fish and I could chunk a bait out there and catch whatever I wanted when I wanted! I am finding out thats not the case!

This whole thread has me rethinking the feeding plan entirely. Initially I had hoped to establish a good forage base so that I would not need to feed my smallmouth. I am letting the pond sit for a year without predators so the varied forage (fhm, gs, crayfish, grass shrimp, banded killifish, spotfin shiners, greenfin shiners, bluntnose minnows, johnny darters, RES) can get established before the SMB and YP are stocked. I was going to put a feeder in soon and get some AM600 going to kick start the growth of the forage and eventually predators but if that means the predators will be too feed-oreinted to catch why did I spend so much time and money establishing the forage fish to begin with?

Another part of me is thinking maybe some of the people on this site are noticing the difficulty of catching the feed-trained fish because they are either fishing solely with live bait (worm or minnow under a bobber) or their kids are having a tough time catching fish. Both of these situations could suggest that the fishing tactics are to blame and not the feeding. A minnow or worm under a bobber is not a very natural presentation to a fish, sure you are putting the real thing out there for the fish but there could be millions of the real thing for the predators to choose from! Your minnow swimming 12" under a bobber is totally missed by the bass that are chasing schools of the same minnows! For this reason I will mainly be fishing artificials that trigger reaction strikes from fish or that stand out more and get the attention of the predators. I am sure the big ones will get hook shy if I over fish the pond but I do not foresee myself (or my kids) getting to fish the pond more than 4 days a month anyway.

For those of you finding the fishing to be tough please try throwing a weightless senko, a shakey head finesse worm, a texas rigged craw imitation, a crankbait, or a topwater popper and report back! I would love to know if the fish are not hitting artificials before I decide to spend $600 on a feeder.

I feed my fish, and use a 14' crappie pole to get out away from the dock.. If the big ones can see you they make an instant u-turn for deep water. But i have no problem catching big fed fish like this.

For my part at least, I'm referencing BG, not so much LMB. And I have thrown a variety at them: spoons, spinners, poppers, flies, worms, beemoths....fished with and without a float, and also just a slow sinking presentation with no weight. And I have fished BG for several years, so I don't want to think my fishing abilities are the culprit, but I will admit that anything's possible. And I do catch some, but when compared to the numbers of fish that readily feed on AQ500, there's a huge difference. Especially since some of these are a species (HBG) supposedly known for their willingness to bite, and relatively easy "catchability". There must certainly be a multitude of factors that play a part in whether or not the fish are "biting" on any given day, and on any BOW.

However, since I have fed ponds, and unfed ponds, within yards of each other, all stocked with the same species,(with the exception of the HBG pond), I can compare them quite readily. The unfed pond produces BG much faster, and with less effort on the part of the angler, than the fed ponds do. It would seem to me that the feeding programs are having an effect on angling success or failure.

I went back and found the last thread I remembered that dealt with fish, and their capacity to learn, or not. I'm still not sure I can differentiate between a conditioned response, and a learned one.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=22044&Number=279741#Post279741

I also have used small poppers small meps small spinners, small square bill mini minnows, and will catch one every now and then but??? Like spark says! My water is alive with fish when fed by the feeder so I know there are a lot more down there then what I am seeing?? I have fished now for over 35 years and feel I know a thing or 2 about fishing, but that is not it. Anyone should be able to go out and catch a 5 or 6 nice size BG without much effort even if they are using a worm and bobber, but now that seems to be harder then it was before! Like Spark says he has both fed and unfed ponds and the unfed pond is easier to catch a fish from! Which I find funny cause all you think about is how easy it is going to be to catch these feed trained fish and now you cant hardly catch them at all!! That is to funny! And fustrating at the same time!

I'm with Nate!

I'll go a step farther and say feeding has a lot less to do with fish "catchability" than does fish conditioning.

Fish learn a lot more than many give them credit for. "Green" fish will bite almost any thing at any time. "Experienced" fish, those that have been caught or witnesses others getting caught, are wary. The best solution for that is to fish less, but that's pretty drastic.

Last time we fished, the wife said "The fish don't like our bait". I said "They like our bait just fine. It's our hooks they don't like"

If you are having trouble catching bluegill in a "fed" lake, hold off feeding for a couple of days before you fish for bluegill next time. I feel it may be more of a fish with a full belly than a conditioned fish. Works for me.

I'll buy that. We talk on the forum of feeding to satiation, which to me equates to "full". In a small BOW, it's bound to be a lot easier, and a whole lot cheaper to feed that heavy vs. a large lake or pond. Could it be that the fish in a larger BOW are more willing to bite simply because they're still hungry? Whereas those in a smaller pond, being fed to satiation every day simply show less interest in anything that doesn't resemble what they are used to eating, because they're full more often, and don't need to experiment with other potential food sources?

Spark I think your right to some degree. I didn't seem to have this problem until I went to 2 feedings a day at 2 seconds. When I was doing 1 second I seemed to have better catch rates. It would make since that if a fish was full why bother trying to eat more and chase it down. Although I have seen bass with fish coming out of their gullut and still hit your bait too. I like the idea of turning your feeder off but if your not present on your land all the time that is not really possible, but I can back it off and feed less at certain times when I know we may be going fishing the following weekend.

we use a buglite, which operates only at nite,the bugs that are attracted by the lite are chopped by the rotating splines. when they hit the water they are still alive and moving, the bg really go after them. Natural food and it does the job for you.

What do people think of this point Nate made? How would you go about doing this? Smaller pellets? Feeding in shallow water?

I think this is a very interesting topic and I recall a term paper that was turned in for wildlife biology class that may explain a little. Granted this was a long time ago but it had to do with the conditioning of all animals from birds, squirrels, deer and turkey at feeders, humans on foodstamps and welfare, fish being fed at regular intervals etc...... the point to his paper was that with all animals studied that were being fed at very regular intervals they all became "lazy" and slowly became reliant on the free hand outs and became less adapt at foraging for themselves. In a lot of situations some became so dependant on the handouts that if they abruptley discontinued then the animals would stress out in varying degrees depending on how long they had been fed. Some would actually starve to death depending on the time of year. I think some examples were discussed recently in another thread on deer feeding. Based on his findings animals in a different control group that were fed but not at regular intervals did not stop foraging on their own between feedings and did not show the same dependicies or the same stress symptons when feeding was discontinued. His sugggestions for feeding wildlife was to never fill the feeders and to let them remain empty for short periods of time to keep the animals being fed from getting 'lazy". He supported feeding but just not at regular intervals. It would be interesting to have two ponds and experiment with different feeding tactics to see if catchability or wr were effected by the different feeding tactics implemented. Use regular feeding times on one pond and scattered random feedings on the other. On the pond with scattered irregular feeding times perhaps net off a small shallow section of the pond so that only the small forage fish could gain access and feed them on a regular schedule so that the larger fish consuming them could benefit from the forage feeding without actually becoming dependant on pellets.

i do some supplemental feeding by hand. here's my experience (at least as it relates to bass). i have about 7 bass in the pond that are on the supplemental program. one of these, "spot" (named for a little pigment spot on her side) is an absolute cinder block of a bass - 7 lbs. 5 oz. at 21" long last time i caught her. i'll leave the relative weight calculations to the experts, and just say that she is very fat and well fed. she is the both the easiest and hardest to catch fish in the pond. i'll explain. when you begin to feed fish, they change their perception of human presence. drive up a noisy truck and tromp carelessly around a pond full of wild fish and you will see them dart away from the bank like their tails are on fire. do the same in a pond full of "pet" fish that are artificially fed by hand and the fish will beat a path to you and park right at your feet waiting on you to start slinging food. spot is no different. she is wating on me at the side of the pond along with her buddies before i even get my truck in park. she knows it's time to eat.

since spot and her buddies have changed their approach to me, if i want to catch them, i have to change my approach to them. i can cast spinnerbaits, crankbaits, plastics, you name it, past any one of them and run the lure seductively within an inch of their nose and they will simply turn to avoid the lure as if to say, "c'mon quit messing around and feed us already." however, i can take the same lures and pitch the baits right at their noses and the baits are devoured before they even have a chance to get wet. why? because in the first scenario, i was trying to make them bite the bait. in the second, i was feeding it to them.

i don't know a lot about fish feeders, but i'll try to draw a parallel. i'm sure that feeders make some type of noise and vibration when they are activated, even without food in them. i'd be willing to bet that fish get conditioned to these noises and vibrations as a positive stimuli associated with food and respond to them the same way they respond to someone in a truck pulling up to hand feed. i'd almost be willing to bet that if you turn on the feeders for a few seconds without food in them (if this won't damage anything) you can catch fish around them.

to me, there is no sport in catching pet fish. that's why i try to keep most of the fish in the pond on live forage like bluegill or shiners. fish that are stuffed on live forage are hard to catch, but there's a lot of satisfaction in it when you do catch one.

i guess that's one of the tough decisions all pond owners have to make. if you want impressive fish, stock lots of forage or feed supplementally in large quantity. downside? the fish will be harder to catch. if you want easy-to-catch fish, understock forage or underfeed with supplemtal sources. downside? you won't get very many impressive pictures.

of course there are certain things you can do when fishing a pond that will dramatically increase your chances of catching ANY bass, regardless of how well fed they are.

To go along with that scenario of "spot" waiting on you for food, a few ponds that I walk around (mine included) have LMB that follow me around the pond. Whether they are expecting a handout (my pond) or catching grasshoppers that fly into the pond because of walking around the perimeter, they still play follow the leader.

I agree with your assesment of running a lure past their nose vs. "feeding" a lure to them.

A couple of years ago I watched a LMB try and grab a BG when it was feeding. I started by fin clipping one (BG) and putting a #10 hook in it's tail stub, then putting it into the pond for the LMB to eat. (I watched the LMB try to move around the un-clipped BG to grab it head on.) I found that if I were to pull the BG backwards a bit, then the LMB would grab it. I'd quickly yank the small hook out so I didn't hook the LMB. After a while, it'd jump out of the water to get the BG as I lowered it to the water. You could swim a BG past it and it wouldn't give it a 2nd look, but dangle one? I was amazed at how far above the water it could see the BG and get it.

I don't feed until the fish stop eating, the fish clean up the food in <10 seconds (the RBT are the biggest eaters in the pond).

I don't have to fence off an area like ozark suggested, I just simply use a scatter feeder to toss 1/8" pellets and even smaller in areas about 2-4' deep. Some big fish come in and eat, but predominately smaller bluegills feeding off those feeders.

Feeder placement is very important!! Feed where your target species would prefer to be.

Rockville,
The good feeders are about $800 these days.....but nonetheless I would definitely do everything possible to build your forage base as large as possible!! Being patient for a whole year will pay off big time! With your target species being smallmouth, it will take them a few years to really dent the forage and believe it or not, your smallies will more than likely not even look at a pellet until the pellet is easier protein than the forage. Sounds crazy, but in a situation your creating, the smallies can easily catch forage all day long!

These examples of feeding programs are just a few peoples experiences of what can happen in their situations. Yours is completely different. In my opinion Smallies are the perfect fish to supplementally feed because I have never seen them become dependant on just feed in any situation. Even at my lake with a bazillion feeders, the smallies only show up sporadically. Same with yellow perch.

feed the forage and it will last you way longer than if you wouldnt feed the forage.

Sounds like Texas Hunter needs to develop a timer that you can set the days you want to feed like Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday! Hmmm that could be interesting for those situations where its just a nice supplement.

I really hope folks reading this stuff don't get confused and associate all of this with every situation. Feeding is a huge tool for many situations, it just needs to be done correctly to accomplish its intended purpose.

I feed my BG the AM500 feed twice a day from two feeders on a 1 acre pond.

Before I built my pond I envisioned being able to easily catch BG anywhere near structure or the feeder. I wanted to us a bobber because it is easy for other "non-fisherpeoples" visitors to use.

I found that the BG immediately scatter to deeper water when I walk up (not like the LMB that follow you around as ESSHUP noted). You could catch a few by casting into the deeper areas where the feeder reached using a bobber about 2 feet above the hook baited with cricket/worm but they would become skiddish after that.

I decided to go with ultralight equipment; 4 lb. flouro with a very small hook (I think they're labeled as "cricket hooks"), a BB sinker about 1 foot up the line, crickets/worms and fished very slowly (or even still) on the bottom in the deeper water around the feeders. I find this works very well and the fish do not seem to figure it out until I've caught 18-20 when the bite slows but does not totally stop.

Turns out this is a very fun way to fish for 9" BG (or hopefully 10" by now as I haven't fished BG for a while as I continue try to cull <13" LMB).

Hope this helps.

I'm not about to stop feeding my fish, as I've seen the positive results that come from doing so. And certainly, every pond and situation is different, and requires a different approach.

However, I do believe that this thread has brought up an issue that seldom gets mentioned. That being the increased difficulty in catching fish that may arise due to an aggressive feeding program.

The key word being "may". "Fed fish are big fish". Yes, but it appears that "Fed fish can be hard to catch fish", MAY also apply.

I agree. The feeding of the fish is great for them for sure! It's up to us as managers to manage the feedings to our content for not only catching fish but for larger healthier fish too! Trying to find that perfect balance!

Angling technique will also come into play. I know of a lake where a white 1" twister tail will hammer the fish - just as long as it has a pink or red jig head. Use a green head and you'd think the lake didn't have any fish in it at all. But, use a chartruse body instead of white on any color head except green, and they're back to bending the rod again.

Been thinking about an experiment made possible by mother natures refusal to give me any rain. Some may recall from previous threads that I had to build a temp damn in the middle of my pond while construction was going on to pump water out of side we were working on to finished side. Then the skys opened up and never got a chance to remove the barrier. Now that we have gone over two months with no rain whatsoever the pond is now divided in half once again. I have continued feeding on one side and have seased to feed on the other. This has was started on the 16th of may. As long as the drought continues I will remain to do so and see if there is a difference in catch rates from one side or the other. Both sides have about the same amount of structure and have the same types of fish. In the past we have caught fish fairly consistent from anywhere in the pond. Obviously there is flaws in the controls by not knowing exact distributions and numbers of fish on each side but I still think it will give an indication of catchability from one side verses the other. Also something of interest will be effect on the fhm and other forage species from one side to the other as well as any other adverse byproducts of feeding that may occur ie; higher p rates, visibility etc....If nothing else it will take my mind off the falling waters and lack of rain.

And I agree with you'all I would never consider not feeding fish in my bow. Way to many benefits to loose just for easier fish to catch.

That will be an interesting experiment!

Has been twelve days since stopped feeding on one of the now seperated ponds. On the other have been feeding 64 oz every day by randomly broadcasting around perimeter. Took kids out after feeding and fished both for one hour apiece with live grasshoppers. Caught thirty one on one side and twenty eight on the side that we feed on. Most were various sufish but we did catch yp on each side and a crappie on each side. one would not be able to tell any difference at all between the number of bites or the size of fish with the exception of the food bellies on the side we had just fed.

Very interesting topic! Do you guys feel that abrupt discontinuation of feed trained fish on a specific feed program can be detrimental to a BOW? I worry that the biomass can be elevated due to the amount of supplemental food.


Any thoughts?



drp

My buddy came across this problem with his fish and we pondered the situation on how to get the bluegill back to eating natural food. First he used game fish chow so only the bluegill were eating, while they were eating he cut his food back to half as much and we started throwing out crickets with the food and the big gills would watch them and eat more GFC they slowly started eating them mainly big gills. As days went on and this feeding kept on, the bluegill would eat the crickets first. Finally it got to the point where he only threw crickets out. Then he stopped feeding on a schedule and a certain place just throwing at random locations. The bluegill are still doing great, I went fishing there about two months ago he has been doing this for about a year now. I feel like its getting bluegill to act more naturally by eating something live and crickets float an make a lot of commotion on top of the water so it calls in a bunch of gills, also it's easy to watch the takers of crickets since there on top of the water. Another plus is crickets are so easy to keep. Make a box with a wire top, put potatoes, egg crates, green beans, lettuce, grass, and just about anything leafy or great and something to hide under.

BG do not stop eating natural food when they are provided supp feeding (pellets). It just means more food for all. The biggest limiting factor in most waters is not enough food for the existing mouths .

Anytime the food supply (food web) is reduced be it all natural or lots of pellets or fertile water you are going to have lots of problems unless you reduce the fish biomass (harvest) to match the food web.

No doubt that more food means more fish biomass (not necessarily just bigger fish but also more). Population quality requires harvest mgt and water quality as well.

Not sure if this answers the questions but is supp food for thought.

Do crickets provide enough protein for a pond full of BG?

This year grasshoppers are all around here in Oklahoma. Last night we were fishing and I threw a few grasshoppers in the water and they were instantly hit by BG or LMB.

I have heard BG love crickets...

Not to bring up an old subject but I think this will be the last year I feed. It seems to get worse and worse trying to catch my own fish. Yesterday we were fishing for a while and my mom couldn't even get a decent fish to take her small hook. Got a lot of smaller ones nipping at it but that was it. So we strolled over to the feeder in the boat mind you and set right there next to it and I grabbed a bunch of food and chunked it out there and the fish went nuts not 10 feet from us!!! Some nice size fish too. We had just been fishing in that area and couldn't get a bite!

I would rather catch a little smaller fish than not be able to catch hardly any. I am also thinking if I spend 200 bucks on food each year I would just go ahead and put that money towards 10 to 15 pounds of feeder fish in the winter and supplament feed that way. These fish need to work harder for there food they are just to darn lazy!!

RC

Tell me exactly (specifically) what tackle and bait you were using, from hook to rod tip. I realize every pond is different, but I haven't seen that happen in any of the ponds that I've fished in that have fish that are on supplemental feed.

Well I know other things can factor in like cooler weather and high pressure things like that.

I was fishing more for bass and HSB slow rolling a beatle spin so I wasn't to worried about me catching anything as I know both can be quite pickey!

My mom however was fishing with your typical 5.5 foot rod with a quater size bobber and split shot on the line with red worms. Short shank small hook 4 lbs test line. Not sure of size but it looked like a #8 hook.

I turned the feeder off yesterday. Going to let them go without for a week and see what happens. That will tell the tale. I don't know what else to try?

RC

snap swivel on the line or line tied directly to the hook?

One lake I fished on I was using redworms. It was almost like something was wrong with the worms - the fish avoided them. Switched to wax worms and problem went away.

Fishing this past weekend was tough - post cold front.

Try it without feeding for a while, it can't hurt. It could be that the majority of BG were bedding too, and weren't interested in feeding unless the bait was put in the bed.

She did have a small snap swivel!! Good call maybe that was making them act weird?? And your right about the post cold front.

I just find it fustrating that I can go out on a big lake I don't do anything to at all and catch more fish than I can catch in my own 1 acre pond!!!

Growning up I don't remember having this much trouble catching BG no matter what we used as far as hook / line/ bobber ect. But most them BG were wild and competing for food I am sure!

Thanks for your replys esshup I guess I am just venting more than anything. It can get fustrating, but I did enjoy time with mom for sure!

RC

Take the snap swivel off. Tie directly to the line. If there's a split shot on the line, move it to directly under the bobber, away from the hook.

There are less fish in your pond than in the local lakes. If your pond gets fished on a regular basis, and the fish and released back into the pond, they learn what NOT to bite on. The more natural the presentation, the easier it is to get them to bite.

Case in point. I caught a lot of BG on nests using a white 1" curly tail grub. They hit it as soon as it came close. I moved them to the pond. Could I catch them on the same lure? Heck NO! But, switch from a pink jig head/white body to a black jig head/brown body and they hit it.

I'm a big fan of what I call the slow-fall presentation..... no weight, and no float...a size 8 or 10 hook, and in this case, some lively bait, or maybe a small hair jig. It takes a pretty good setup to cast in this fashion, (unless you're using a fly rod), but it usually pays off for me.

Cast, and let it sink slowly. If you have time to eat a sandwich before your lure/bait hits bottom, you're on the right track. Set the hook on ANY twitch of the line.

Speaking from Indiana, my RES are on the beds, and the BG are staging just off in deeper water, with a few hardier souls already fanning out nests. If I were fishing right now, I would cast out to the slightly deeper water beyond known spawning areas.

For many, many years now, I haven't used anything but micro jigs for bluegills. They are perfect for that slow fall presentation when matched w/an ultralight spinning combo w/4lb test. Cabelas sells them in 1/80 and 1/100 oz sizes. Occasionally though, I'll switch things up w/ice jigs. Another plus is that the BG almost never swallow these jigs. The only time I use a swivel is w/an inline spinner to prevent line twist.

I like to fish this way as well, seems to produce more. We always do this when catching bait for Catfish trips.

As far as the BG/HBG I have the opposite issue. I go out trying to catch CC using Liver, Guts, Stink Bait or anything you would think the CC's would like and I cannot get my bait past the BG as they hit it on the way down.

Whatever it takes to catch them I hope it picks up for you.

Keep us posted.

Update on turning feeder off.

Ok now I turned off the feeder Sunday afternoon. My mom and dad went fishing last night dad said he didn't catch any bass or hsb but mom caught about 5 or 6, 4 to 6 inch CNBG and one nice 8.5 incher!! Sorry no picture! So this means 1 of 2 things I guess.

1. Me turning off the feeder is making in difference in catching my BG already just after 2 days. Or.

2. Itjust happend to be a bad day of fishing on Sunday and turning the feeder off really didn't make a big difference at all??? We just caught the fish on a bad day and they were not hungry?

What do you all think makes more since option 1 or 2? I think option 1 is what I am leaning towards for now.

If it is option 1 I won't quit feeding but I will sure feed at certain times of the year other than when I know we will be doing more fishing.

I sure wish they made a feeder that had an app you could control your feeder from your phone as to when you want to feed or stop feeding. That would be cool!!

RC

I don't know how different your weather was Sunday, but Monday I could not get any of my HBG to bite for nothing. Caught 4 of the HSB I put in a couple weeks ago. Throw out feed at feed time and the water boiled. Guess I'm going to have to get me some stubby Steve's.

I think you probably just had a bad day of fishing.

I have been to my pond and the fish just boil the water but do not seem interested in biting at all.

Then there are times that the food is untouched and we knock them out as we fish. This is very odd to me but at least we catch fish when we are there.

Not the shortest drive to the land, so we hope to have a good time when there.

I've had the same experience. And this from a fish that, to read some reports, eats anything and everything all the time. I wonder how many of the articles I've read that touted this supposed HBG trait were written by folks with hands-on experience with this fish, rather than just recycled material from an earlier work?

Matter-of-fact, and on a broader scope, when is it time to revisit old articles, theories, and generally accepted facts regarding fish of all kinds? Certainly building upon the work of recognized authorities is commonplace, but surely new information, new variables, and new questions will sometimes demand another look at what is considered the standard answer?

I don't think the wheel always needs to be re-invented......but I'm open to the idea that improvement can sometimes be achieved by thinking outside the norm, rather than simply accepting as fact, that which has been steadfastly regarded as the final word.

Sorry for getting off-topic, RC.

You take the swivel off of the line??

I think fishing just been crappy last couple weeks.. Feeding too (waters boiling but not alot of variety of eating pellets on my pond feeding)

Just like with other animals when the spawn starts fish are not much interest in food ! Point made.

Hey Esshup

No I am not up there and I have not had a chance to tell dad to take it off so she actually caught those with the swivel so it could have been a lot better maybe with it off! I will take it off this weekend.

Thanks