Been in the planning for 4 years but finally got all our permits and money cleared. Seems a runoff ditch that collected water and pooled is considered wetlands somehow and slowed us down. What a joke. Anyways clearing started today. Not gonna be anything big probably only 8 acres but will be nice to have my own place to fish right behind the house in a few years. They said its gonna take a lot of burning lol. First debris pile is already 18 feet high and they said we would probably have 4-5 of them.

Welcome to PB. Eight acres should be a neat fishing hole.

Congrats on the ground breaking! Are you sure you can get by with only an 8 acre puddle? Haha

Wow, thats sounds nice. I bet with 8 acres you will be the envy of most. So will the work go straight thru till it's done, or is it to be in stages? Saving any root balls for habitat? Whats your ultimate goal of types of fish? We're drooling for details!!!!!!!!

Wow 8 acres!!!

Very exciting!

I figured 8 acres was small. One of my deer stands sits in our smallest field which is 5 acres and is next to our duck impoundment which is 4. I just dont see that being very big. Also theres so many damn stumps in there even if we burned 90% of it I will have a ton left over. We just had the area logged 5 years ago. Some stumps are so big they almost tipped the trackhoe several times. Gonna leave the bigger oaks up on an island with about 5 feet of water depth around each one and maybe toss some stumps or tree tops around those. Probably gonna go overboard on this thing. Got a guy thats gonna build us a fake dock at one end of the pond with 2-3 boat slips to provide some cover. Was also thinking about digging a few really deep holes and maybe throwing in some concrete highway dividers since we know a guy in the paving business. Just wanna use stuff thats gonna last and not rot away. Just hope we dont stock it with water moccasins is all I care about.

Stump City: Still gotta clear all those trees in the background.


Hope they got insurance!

I don't think I'm the only one wondering what is a fake dock? And why not just build a real one? I'm not sure the hwy dividers will do much for the fish. Here is the link to the artificial structure thread. It has huyndreds of great ideas.

Atrificial habitat

I mean fake as in its not going to be used. Just there only for providing cover for fish.

8 acres! Can't wait to see.

I was wondering the same thing too. If you have two boats tied up how could it be considered a fake dock.





I agree, fish don't abide by our same driving rules.....

So was looking at getting a bunch of these:
Cabela's Porcupine

Wheres the best place to put them? Also saw some pics of people making triangles out of 3 pallets will probably do that as well and put some cinder blocks on them. Again where would be the best place to put those? Also If I do dig a few deep holes should I put anything in them at all or would some rocks be good? Was thinking of dumping a ton of crayfish into those holes and figured if they were like lobster they like hiding and crawling around on stuff.

Placement of structure/habitat can get complicated because there are so many different factors that add into it. Such as fish types that you want, types/shapes of structure, summer/ice fishing, etc, etc. You need goals on what you want from the pond. Once you let everyone here know what that might be, they will be able to help you alot more. There is at least one forum member here (name Peepaw?) that deals with it on a regular basis. You might look at some of his past posts because they would very likely be talking about some form of structure.

The link mentioned above "artificial habitat" is one of the best areas to learn more. This Link is within that one and has good fundamental suggestion by Bob Lusk.

With the structure you listed, I believe members here have used them. But where you put it depends on your goals and fish. You mentioned that you want structure that lasts. Pallets will have a life span, but are free and that can become an issue to consider. Rocks are excellent for crayfish. Start of with that link I included to give you an idea of how to place any of it.

What do you mean by goals I want from the pond? I want big fish isnt that everyone's goal? Id like to provide some nice spawning areas for the fish as well. I want this pond to last forever. It will be stocked with LM Bass, Black Crappie, and probably 3 more species of Panfish (Bluegill, Shellcrackers, and Redbreast) most likely. And some crayfish for the bass to munch on. I keep hearing stuff about flathead minnows. Sounds like they might be good eatin for my crappie so might throw some of those in as well.

Weather here is always usually warm. Right now im outside watching them clear in shorts and a t-shirt. It can get cold but never long enough for it to actually freeze. My uncle has 2 ponds nearby and they have been there for 50 years and I think he said they have had ice maybe once or twice but never thick enough to actually walk out on. Summers on the other hand are brutal. 100+ temps and 200000% humidity. Thats why I want as much shade/cover as possible. Rainfall is iffy. This year it rained literally every day from March through August. Last year we had a drought. How do I prepare if we get hit with another Noah's Ark amount of rain? Im not worried as much about lack of rain because of the natural springs below.

Also back to cover. If I go with plastic pallets will that be better? Since there wont be any overhanging trees will probably have to plant some willows and will search for other things to plant that will hang over the pond and provide cover. Just wish I could have some cypress trees. Also this place sits on top of a natural spring and the water table isnt very far below. I think my dad said maybe 5 feet. So once they start digging it wont be long before we have water. Should I worry about my pond filling up before I can set up my structure? Once they hit water should I halt work until I can get everything in place? Obviously every pond is different but I dont want them to be digging one minute and then 2 hours later the damn thing has filled up with water.

Nope.

My farmer is gonna get me about 14 more tractor tires I might tie together in groups of 3. Any idea how to punch holes into them so fish can swim in and out? I assume holes about the size of a softball would be best?

Also for spawning areas. I guess I will have to read up on that. I had an old pond where I grew up that me and my friends used to fish where the bass literally spawned right next to the bank cause we used to just drop in live bream as bait and they would inhale them right away. But 90% of the entire edge was ringed with weeds with so maybe thats why they picked those spots. They were easily sight fished as there was usually enough break in the weeds to drop in either a live bait or a jig. Also you could easily walk across the pond at any part so it wasnt very deep. Had a friend nab an 8 pounder doing that when he dropped a bream into a bed next to a fallen tree that went out about 5 feet into the water. Seems she didnt like mr bream swimming around there.

Loved that pond but no one took care of it and eventually algea took over and it became unfishable. Also I dont think anything fed it because when we moved away I swear no part of it was deeper than 1-2 feet. Shame too because there were some monsters in there as no one would keep anything and it was all catch and release.

Almost finished with Day 2. So much for ever using this deer stand again.

Awesome it seems someone has already sent out a memo to some uninvited guests that a new pond is coming. Found two cottonmouths today.

Careful about stocking crappie in your pond. I've read on this site numerous times where crappie can over-populate in ponds under 25 acres. Just another thing to consider.

I think they are by far the best tasting freshwater fish so if that happens culling will be swift and the fish fry massive. Also my uncle stocked them in his pond and its only 4 acres and hasnt had any problems. They mostly just hang out around a bunch of hay bales he dumped out in some deep water.

You could consider mounding dirt in a few areas to create "islands" so that pondweed could establish there as well as along the bank. Crawfish and other critters will occupy the weedy areas.

If this site had a like button, I would hit for this project. Looks good.

With 8 acres in SC you can really make a trophy bass fishery! Anyone know if threadfin shad would overwinter there? If so they should definitely be stocked. I would also add red eared sunfish, coppernose bluegill, golden shiners, grass shrimp (they are cheap and provide small forwage for your young bluegill and bass, stock once you have some established vegetation), crayfish, and fathead minnows to the forage base.

Listen to the guys on here as far as structure goes, it sounds like you want big largemouth and a crappie population, guys here will tell you exactly how to set up your underwater world.

As soon as your pond is dug and the strucure has been placed you should add a small amount of fathead minnows to any water that is holding. Fatheads can survive in shallow pools, spawn incredibly fast and give all your predators a good forage to gorge themselves on. Your 4-6" stocker Largemouth will be 9-11" by the end of the year eating every slow fathead in the pond. Stocking 1000 fatheads in March will give you millions (so many you can't see the bottom of the pond) in 3 months. Every last one will be eaten within two years, bass and crappie will eat the fatheads into extinction but by then they have served their purpose and your bass will be large enough to prey on bluegill shad and shiners.

Many people here like to get their forage base established before adding predators as bass and crappie can eat every bit of forage in short order. Giving your forage long enough to grow and breed means that the predators can eat the offspring but your brood stock remains to keep the base going. My pond was stocked with numerous varieties of forage fish in March and I don't plan on adding predators (smallmouth and yellow perch) until next fall. If you can use threadfin shad then you won't need to wait as long as I waited but adding fatheads/golden shiners/threadfin/crayfish then waiting 2-3 months before adding the bluegill/largemouth/crappie means you are far less likely to end up with starving bass in two years.

If your goals are for trophy largemouth you need to be careful of how many you stock. Stock too many and you will end up with smaller hungrier fish, stock too few and you will have some monsters that are hard to find (at least until they spawn a few times and their offspring grow to catchable size). The worst thing you can do is just call up the local fish truck guy and go with whatever he tells you, fish sellers will sell you what makes them the most profit and not necessarily what is best for your pond. There are a lot of good reputable fish dealers on this site that can help you. Speak to the experts here and come up with a stocking plan, that way you will establish your ecosystem for long term success and save money in the process.

Do not forget this vital fact: A bass has to eat 10 pounds of forage in order to gain one pound. If you have 1,000 bass in your pond you need 10,000 pounds of forage for all those fish to grow to 1lb.

Im cautious about adding shiners. I heard they can take over a pond. Someone threw a few into my uncle's pond when they were done fishing and he had 100s in no time. You couldnt sink a cricket anywhere without shiners stealing them off your hook. I remember one day we caught so many and just kept throwing them up onto the bank so the predators would eat them that we probably had 75 easy. And that wasnt even using a boat just fishing off the bank around the edges with some of the younger relatives. We didnt catch a single bream just shiners.



Thanks. Just started burning our first debris 3 piles today. These guys are going warpspeed and all we have is one dozer and a trackhoe.



Gonna have probably 3-4 islands with about 4-5 feet of water around the edges. Now that a lot of clearing has been done I can start to see which trees I wanna keep up and where the islands will be going. Gonna have a nice one pretty close to the bank. Might build a little arch bridge going to it because it looks like it will be our largest one.

If you fish with live crickets then you should not add shiners to your pond. If you use artificials you won't have a problem. Shiners are good forage and help keep bass numbers under control by feeding on bass eggs. Don't worry, your bass will still have succesful spawns but the shiners can help keep their numbers from blowing up. Threadfin shad can fill the shiner role as a easy-to-swallow forage fish, I prefer a varied forage base just for diversity sake but threadfin won't survive my winters so shiners are a necessity for me.

Large bass will have the bluegill as their main forage item. Because bluegill are so tall they are hard for smaller bass to eat and that is where your shiners/shad help out. A 16"+ largemouth will eat bluegill with no problem because it can fit a 4-8" bluegill in its mouth but a 12" bass struggles to do that. Even large bass will eat plenty of shiners and shad as their shape makes them safer and easier to eat.

Are large brim (assuming brim = bluegill) a goal for you? If you would prefer large brim to large bass then increase your bass stocking numbers and you will have larger brim with more small easy-to-catch bass. You have an 8 acre pond so you can still get big brim with big bass but your stocking strategy would need to change to reflect that and your management strategy could be more involved. By stocking coppernose bluegills you will end up with some big bluegills (especially if you add a feeder).

Personally I dont eat freshwater fish other than crappie. My dad doesnt like Bass fishing and still goes old school with a Browning bream buster and a live cricket. I only fish for bass. So if the bass eat all the bluegill and become lunkers its fine with me. I dont have kids or see any in the forseable future, and I know they love catching some bluegill, so I dont really need tons of bluegills. Also Im sure I can always stock more later if necessary. My dad can get over it if my bass eat every big bluegill since he also prefers eating crappie. So as far as bluegills are concerned they are just there as food.

Also I assume the fish will naturally segregate themselves? Where do I want my Crappie? Like I mentioned my uncle has 2 ponds but only one has Crappie and in my uncle's pond they are all located around some hay bales sunk in deeper water. Only a few have moved from that location and if thats whtat you are after you have to fish the hay bales.

The bass are scattered but 100% of the ones I caught out of his ponds were always under overhanging cover, either some fallen trees that fell into the pond or tree branches, working plastics either a lizard or worm. I actually throw them up onto the bank at an angle and then work it back towards the boat threw deeper water so they go right under any cover. Usually they get inhaled a few seconds after sliding into the water. I have never caught a bass in open water in either of his ponds. I have tried slow rolling a spinner bait, jigs, and crank baits but never caught anything so I assume hes got no structure in the middle of his pond to hold fish other than those crappie.

Oh yea I guess the way I like to fish will probably affect how I want to construct all my fish holding devices. I mainly fish with plastic baits. Love those 6" and 7.5" Culprit worms and Lizards and have used those 90% of the time I have ever freshwater fished going back to when I was in middle school. I also like walking a zera spook or working a rebel pop-r that make a lot of surface ruckus cause seeing a nice bass explode on one those is so much fun. Even had bass follow them all the way up to the boat before striking. Never really bothered much with spinnerbaits or buzzbaits. I have tried tons of them but never caught a single bass off of either EVER. If I do dig some deep holes and fill them with rocks and crayfish I assume working a jig around that spot will be the best way to catch a big bass. I will also live bait every now and then but its so easy it almost feels like cheating.

And we just broke the trackhoe. Guess my stumps were too strong:

Your largemouth won't eat all the bluegill if you stock the correct amounts, bluegill spawn throughout the spring and summer and provide lots of young-of-year for the bass to eat. If you want big bass you need to limit the number of bass you stock initially and go high on the bluegill stockings. If the bass are overcrowded you end up with some huge bluegills that the bass cannot eat and many stunted 8-10" bass. Those stunted bass eat all the newly hatched bluegill before they have a chance to grow and become a worthwhile meal.

Bottom line: Focus on your forage base first and get it established before adding predators. Patience now means a healthy and balanced pond for years to come. Trying to establish a forage base with predators present is VERY difficult and expensive. Instead of stocking 1000 2-3" bluegill which is affordable but won't make a dent in an 8 acre lake with bass, you have to stock 3000+ 5-8" bluegill that will survive predation but break your wallet. The cost is dramatically more expensive. If you stock your forage and wait several months before stocking predators you can buy less and smaller forage fish but get the same result as stocking three times that amount of full grown forage along with the bass at the same time.

I have a few questions that may also help thomasmgp. It sounds like he wants crappie the most( his top goal). Most on the forum don't reccommend that you put in crappie unless you have a lake(aprox25+ acres), but I think thomasmgp is going to put them in no matter what. Now enter into the mix LMB. Can the LMB be used in a way to control the crappie population? How about not having BG so the LMB have to eat the crappie? What relationship would/could these two species have? Would he have a better chance with his crappie without any BG?

I might just leave the crappie out if they are a problem. Im guessing thats why my uncle only put them in one of his ponds. Im only after LMB mostly anyways. Also what makes them so bad?

Well time is all we got seeing how we probably wont fish it for 3 years. So if we dump in small bluegills first along with the flatheads and crayfish then I can add the bass 6-7 months later.

thomasmgp.... read all you can on here about your desired fish species, then read some more. Once fish are added, it can be hard to make corrections.

I was thinking back to the crappie situation and it just hit me. My uncle has his only in a 4 acre pond. But every time we fished it all we caught was either crappie or bluegills. We were lucky if we caught 1 bass for an entire day of fishing. But if we went over to his other pond with no crappie...Bass city. So either they love the taste of bass fry or they were stocked first, grew to full size eating everything around them and thus ate all the food the bass would have eaten.

Just spoke with my dad. Crappie are out.

The problem with Crappie is that they spawn early, way before bass. They end up eating a lot of young bass and pretty much anything else that spawns in the spring. They have a tendency to take over.

One species I havent thought of yet. What about catfish? But I guess they would compete too much with the bass for food since we always used bream to catch them. Id just like to have something in there I enjoy eating. I will eat bream and bass but just dont like them as much. Not much fun having a pond with nothing to fry up after a good day of fishing.

thomasmgp: Have you read any of Bob Lusk's books, they are listed for sale elsewhere on this site. I would recommend "Basic Pond Management" as well as "Perfect Pond, Want One", as starters. In these books, and elsewhere on this forum in many blogs is what is a generally recommended stocking plan. Generally, although it varies by geographic area, you start with fathead minnows as soon as you have enough water to keep them alive, then later adding various sunfish like bluegill, red ear, etc., then even later largemouth bass. Current thinking is that adding channel catfish doesn't necessarily improve the other species in the pond, generally also they do not generate a reproducing stock of catfish. Most people stock catfish only if they like to fish for them or eat them, and do so on a put and take basis. Put in 100, catch many of them and then restock. Also the general thinking is that once a channel catfish is caught it should be removed because they get hookshy very fast. I think you have already been talked out of stocking Crappie so I won't comment on them, but I agree they have no place in a small lake or pond that is trying for a balanced fishery or a trophy largemouth lake.

Hmm if catfish dont mess anything up I might just do that. Also when stocking if I add my bass gradually is that better than dumping them all in at once? Like when I stock my sunfish maybe stock a few bass as well. Then wait a several months while my bluegills can grow enough to not get eaten before stocking the rest? That should give the first bass some time to get big and start eating bluegills and crayfish while the newer and smaller bass feed on flatheads.

Also like shiners my dad is very against adding shad. Any reason not to? With Shad, Crayfish, and a healthy sunfish population that should produce some lunkers eventually. Also if we have shad I think using topwater baits will be more effective especially a zera spook.

I didn't say that "catfish don't mess anything up". They have their pluses and minuses.

Well they sound better than crappie. Also I remember night fishing for them with my friends growing up. Loads of fun.

Threadfin shad are wonderful. People with ponds further north (like myself) who cannot use them as they won't survive our winters, have to get more diverse forage to have a thriving forage base but we all wish we could just use threadfin. Threadfin shad are not to be confused with Gizzard Shad, threadfin stay small (4-7") and can be eaten by just about any predator while Gizzard Shad can grow to well over 20" and can overwhelm a pond.

http://www.overtonfisheries.com/StockerFish/ForageFish/ThreadfinShad/tabid/79/Default.aspx

Here is what Bob Lusk had to say about them in another thread:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...amp;Search=true

threadfins are a great idea. Here's why.
We all know that bluegill are the backbone of the food chain. They always have been and will continue to be the item of choice to raise largemouth bass. Threadfin shad are a great second choice in waters where they can live with the lowest risk of dying each winter. They are so prolific that they actually increase the odds of bluegill survival, thus "creating" a new food chain.
Threadfins move out into open water and bass will follow them for the chase. I have seen some fabulous topwater action in July from bass chasing shad in the middle of a lake. For each day a bass is suspended in the middle of a lake, the shoreline forage fish have another day to live and grow. When a lake has spawning threadfins, the statistical odds of bluegill survival increases. The main significance of that factor is that if a bluegill is eaten at 1" of length, that fish weighs less than one pound per thousand. But, if that same bluegill lives an additional four weeks and can grow to 2.5", it weighs at least 15-20 pounds per thousand. If it can make it to 45 days, it weighs 30-35 pounds per thousand and is a more significant forage fish for the size class of bass that needs it the most...those fish in the 15-18" sizes.


Other good links about shad:


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=90319&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25747&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18993&fpart=1

Another good Bob Lusk quote:

Look at bluegill as the backbone of the food chain. They are the meat...the primary food for bass. While bluegill spawn several times a year, their numbers ebb and flow as spawning peaks and drops. While young bluegill grow into the food chain, they tend to congregate in shallow shoreline environments.
Threadfin shad live in open water, only congregating along the shoreline to spawn. The rest of the time, threadfins live and feed in open water. A plankton bloom is crucial to their success. Threadfins spawn continually, all summer long. Baby threadfins can begin having babies after about 90 days of maturing. Threadfins stay small, not growing larger than 7 inches.
The main reason they are an excellent forage fish to use for managing for giant bass is because they utilize an open niche in the lake/pond, are small enough for bass to catch and eat, reproduce as much or more than bluegill, and help increase survival of bluegill, so these backbone fish can keep up the pace as primary food source.
The down side is that threadfin die when water temperatures drop below 42 degrees.
It's not that threadfin are 'better' than coppernose bluegill, or that coppernose are 'lacking' anything at all. It's simply a matter of taking the primary productivity of a food chain and converting it to more fish for bass to eat. The addition of threadfin shad could reasonably double the volume of forage fish available to bass stocked with bluegill only. That's the reason.

Anothe rvote for reading Bob Lusk's two books "Basic Pond Management" as well as "Perfect Pond, Want One". Definitely required reading. You've got an opportunity for an awsome fishery. Let these guys steer you in the right direction.

Work on hold it seems while they do repairs on the trackhoe's thumb.

Finally back to work

These guys are a bunch of comedians. They love leaving presents in front of my door, knocking, then running off to hide. This wasnt the first one. I have learned to open my door slowly and have a broom handle ready.

No need for a broom handle for that one, it's already got an extra hole behind it's head.

Where's Todd when you need him?

Yes where is he? I think Todd should hire these guys for his next project!

Is that a timber rattler? I've never seen one.

I believe so Dave, no rattles.

Havent even actually started digging and they are close to hitting water, especially in the middle, because the entire area is basically a giant bowl. When they got the dozer stuck a few times guess they decided to have some fun.

That's just sick right there, spinnerbait!

Hey Scott, it does have rattles.

This seemed like a good idea at first

Are you using it for fish habitat........ there must be cheaper things to add than that.

Was that yours, or theirs?

Rockville would Threadfin shad survive a typical mild winter in North Texas?
It's been in the twenties recently here in Dallas, but wont stay cold long.
Also are Threadfins something you add every year to keep up with predation?
I add tilapia, but maybe I should also add Threadfins?

Mine. Now that they got it leveled out some im thinking about driving my DeVille through it a few times. I figure as long as I dont stop I should be good.

It's a good example of how tracks float and tires don't..no matter what the weight.

We have all been there, in one way or the other......

Sorry, I couldn't help it!

It seems I have become a target when it comes to snakes!

You're right. I took a quick look. Oops!

I think it should be frozen and shipped to Todd. He likes snakes.

And I think you should shut up!

Im hoping they find another one without killing it. Gonna put it on my bed and name him Rattles.

Somethin' about you just ain't right, boy!

thomasmgp, if you look in Todd's signature line, I'll bet you'd be able to find a shipping address.......

Hey! You remember that thing about shuttin' up??? Work on it!!!

O.K. counsel, I'll be quiet now.

I swear every time it goes 3-4 days with no rain and they get ready to start burning it rains again. If we douse everything in gasoline will it still burn through a down pour? Had debris piles for almost a month now but havent been able to burn any of it cause of rain.

Take a large wad of burlap bags soaked in Kerosine or Diesel and shove it in the bottom of the piles. It WILL burn.

I am hoping that this was just a tongue-in-cheek question, thomasmgp. The LAST thing you want to do is use gasoline to start a fire like that! There are plenty here who will share that sentiment, including some professional firefighters and medical professionals. The kerosene idea offered is certainly more viable. I have also heard that spraying diesel fuel out of a hand pump type sprayer, and concentrating the stream in one specific spot till it's really cranking, will start a fire on any flammable material and that will not go out in rainy weather. PLEASE don't even consider gasoline as a means of starting your fire!

I second Todd's suggestion. We use diesel fuel. Not only is it safer, but much more effective. Gasoline will be gone in mere seconds, likely not even igniting your pile, while diesel will persist long enough to get your burn started.

Don't use old "white" stove fuel either. I thought it would be a great idea to dispose of it, but it wound up blowing half my hillside up, and scattered my pile of brush everywhere. Those fumes can creep like nobody's business! Yes, I was standing in the middle of it when I lit it. Best bass note EVER. I managed to be OK apart from being rather startled. I was clothed well so I was protected.

I have a scary white-gas story also. Nobody was hurt, but that stuff is dangerous.

Dad was a fireman. He was told that a gallon of gas was equal to 1 stick of dynamite in explosive properties.

Diesel is the way to go. I use the pump up sprayer method.

Needs bigger tires I guess

Hang on, let me get my tractor and I'll pull 'ya out!

If by tractor you mean crane then OK cause thats what we needed. Oh and we just got it stuck again. That pic was from 3 days ago lol.

I dont think holding water will be a problem.





Dug those yesterday. Deer seem to love it. Tracks all up and down the bank guess they love some fresh ground water