I starting this thread to document the constrution of my poond that is suppose to start in 4 to 6 weeks. The pond is being built by damming up a ravine (where two come together) plus the south and east sides will have there slope greater reduced.

I have made a couple of individual post on this asking specific questions as I was working though the planning stages. I have modified the design a liitle since my last post an added another wood duck box and some more down trees. Here is an updated diagram of it



The only thing not really worked out yet is the emergency spillway but planning that to the south side of the dam.

As noted on here before I am planning on using a siphon system as the only overflow system in the pond. My dirt guy has never done one of these before but is very interested in doing this



Here are some pictures taken late winter/early spring that show the area where the pond will go

Facing north



Facing NNW



Facing West



Facing South



Dam Location facing south



Tail area of dam



Most of the dirt for the dam will be moved from this finger between two ravines making the east end of the pond.



Slide showing showing other areas around the pond area and the pics above

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/before/?albumview=slideshow

The plan is to update this post as progress is made, getting real excited to get this thing going.

Woo hoo...another well documented project to follow. All that paperwork planning, too. Further verification that Lassig is dyed-in-the-wool and soon to become pond nuts.

Wow, I should be able to plan so well.....Found this to be an easy build "fish house". Whenever the pond is low and I can see the top of one and down 3 or 4 feet, fish are all around it.

I am nuts alright. I always seam to get in deep with anything I do. The bales (winter wheat straw) on the east end of the pond are getting moved tomorrow to make room for the work that will be happening. These belong to my leasee but in three months of asking he hasn't been able to get them moved. Sounds like I need to rewrite the lease agreement. Anyway this should be fun only going to be in the middle 90s tomorrow

It looks like you are well on your way. Good luck. Keep us posted

Heat index of 105 but I got the bales moved yesterday, thanks to my neighbor and his 70 hp tractor. Now I just have to wait for my dirt guy to catch up on his backlog of jobs from the wet spring. Hope to get started for real end of July/beginning of August

How many blocks did it take to make this? I am thinking this would work really well inplace of the rock reef I was going to make.

Just got off the phone with my dirt guy as to when he will be able to start the job, looking like around 8/3 so I getting excided.

Keep your camera close, send them to us, so we can enjoy them also.

Dirt guy pushed the start back a week due to rain on his current job. I hope the forecast for this week is wrong, calling for a chance of rain every day till Sunday. Really looking forward to getting this job started.

I made one change in the plans. Going to go with a floating pier instead of the fix pier I planned

Why did you decide on the floating pier lassig?

I was concerned about setting the fixed pier at the right level to be close enough to the water (didn't want a 3 to 4 foot drop to the water or water over the top of the pier). The cost of 6x6s that are rated for water contact are very expensive and didn't want to go with ones rated for ground contact. Also I have way too much on my plate right now and this took a 2 day job off of it.

A floating pier is always the same distance off of the water and I can add it at anytime and I don't have to buy it this year.

Now with all of this said once the pond is finished (haven't started yet) I may change my mind back but I doubt it.

You can always set the post longer than required and let the pond fill then cut to desired height and build the deck when ever you get ready. I used 8x8 railroad ties instead of treated lumber for my deck. Should last even longer and they are cheap to buy.

That was the plan if I went with a fixed pier. Have to wait and see how things look after the pond is done. Like I said I may go back to this since I really don't like the movement of a floating pier.

For a different approach, what about placing concrete pillers in the pond bottom and than placing the 6x6s on top of them. I would use a piece of rebar as a pin to keep the 6x6s from sliding off the piller? This way it would be possible to replace the 6x6s later (if needed) and you would use shorter 6x6s than without the pillers? Of course I would use the concrete forms to make these pillers.

Lassig, what program did you use to make your diagram?

I used Microsoft Visio. It is done to scale

More rain last week where my dirt guy is working so he is now suppose to start onmy place later this week. I hope so I bouncing off the walls waiting to get started on this project. Just looked at the radar and the only rain on it is right where he is working.

I know what bouncing off the walls is all about- when it comes to rain.

Great looking project....looking forward to following it here. Good luck!

I am at the farm and hoping to start today or tomorrow. Should hear from my dirt guy in an hour or so.

Dirt guy just called, he will be here later today or first thinig in the morning. Cann't wait.

Keep taking and posting photos. We love following along!

Getting a dirt guy to start on Saturday is a good chore.

Look what showed up late this afternoon. Not the big JD he normal uses but a step in the right direction.



I took a bunch of pictures around the pond area today to have a before look. I have a slideshow setup at http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/daybefore/?albumview=slideshow

There have been alot of rain delays for him this year, I wouldn't be surpised if we work on Sunday.

Day 1 was short, he didn't show up till 12:30. We did get 4.5 hours of timber clearing done. Here are a few photos from the day http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day1/?albumview=slideshow

Looks like good progress for 4.5 hours. I like the slide shows!

Nice looking project. I have one going also. How do you construct the tire pyramids? PVC trees? I am at the point that I need to start placing structure/cover at the 4-6' depths. I am eager to see how it turns out with all the careful planning.

Try this thread http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Rain 3 hours yesterday afternoon (1+"), 3 hours this morning (6/10ths), and 8/10 ths of an inch this afternoon in 15 minutes so no progress today. He did bring the trackhoe over yesterday. So now there are two pieces of equipment and too wet to use them. Nerve racking sitting here and no progress being made. I hope the rain goes away and we can get some work done

Got almost a complete day in yesterday even with all the rain we got on Monday. Pictures of day 2 progress are at http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day2/?albumview=slideshow

Lots of rain predicded for today, I hope it holds off until late this afternoon. Clear skys around here right now

What a great feeling, ain't it Lassig? Looks great!

Thanks its getting there, right now I sore from cutting up the logs in the picture to make lumber from. Got to run back out there and finish up before the dirt guy shows up. I ran out of daylight last night and didn't get them all done. Could be because the sprocket on the end of the chainsaw bar wore out. I don't understand why it is only 21 years old. Figured it would last longer than that (JK)

Looking good. It's amazing what a couple pieces of heavy equipment can do. I like the shot of the fire at night.

My dirt guy showed up with his son yesterday so 2 guys working on it. They where able to work until 2 PM when the sky’s opened up and rained 2.5” in 45 minutes. Just talked to the dirt guy and most likely no work will be done on the pond till Friday afternoon or Saturday. The ground is really wet and just to hard to work. Pictures from day 3 are at http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day3/?albumview=slideshow

It's looking good.

What are you going to do with the large logs?

In some of the photos it appears as though there is some kind of crop planted, what is that?

The large logs are going to be turned into lumber. I have a guy coming next Friday and Saturday to cut them up. Most of the wood is Oak and Walnut, but there is other mix wood in there. I am going to dry the wood on site and use the mix wood to build the base of the drying stack and the stickers that go between the stacks. There are more logs out there that I need to cut up and stack but it is sooooo wet I cannot get out there yet, maybe tomorrow.

Yes there is a crop planted, it is soybeans. Some of the crop is going to be damage but I worked that our with the farmer that rents my place

lassig - How are you drying the logs? Do you have a kiln or do you plan to air dry them? I tried air drying some sawn white and red oak a few years back and it shrunk and twisted so bad I could not even use it.

Bing

What are stickers?

Dave,
They are the pieces of wood, placed perpendicular, used to divide the stacks to keep, as much as possible, the stacked wood from warping.

We use them to keep the wood off of the ground and to focus the load to selected bearing points.

You probably know them by a different name.

Thanks for the pictures looks like you are having fun.

The fires look like they burned up pretty well.

Thanks Rad. I have never tried to dry lumber. I know zero about it.

Sorry for not responding sooner, I stuck my tractor moving logs around. I know my dirt guy said it was to wet to work I just couldn't listen. He came over this morning and pulled me out with the trackhoe. Still too wet and no work will be done today. Hopefully tomorrow we will get some work done. Isn't August suppose to be dry? 5+" since Sunday, atleast the fall food plots I planted last weekend sure are wet.

If you want to get into the details of drying lumber check out this publication Title: Air drying of lumber.: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/specific_pub.php?posting_id=16923

Also, Fine woodworking has done a couple of articles on how to do this. You can sign up for a free 14 day trail subscription to thier website and then download these articles.

Bing,

Air dry on site. Yes I am afraid of that happening to me after I go through all of this work. Did you cover the stack with a top? I plan on sealing the ends to prevent checking and wraping the pile in what is called shade-dri. It is a material that allows wind to penetrate but stops the sun and rain.

Well finally a full day of work was done yesterday, The first since last Wednesday. A lot of dirt was moved yesterday but progress is still slow in coming.

Here are the pictures

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day4/?albumview=slideshow

The sawyer comes today to start cutting up the logs. Plus there is one guy here pushing dirt. The down side is that track hoe is being moved out today to dig a basement and rain is in the forecast for tomorrow afternoon - Friday. Getting close to closing in the pond and don't want to do tihs with the rain in the forecast.

Can you quickly review the dimensions and depths of the project? That draw is cavernous! As I see it, it appears that the draw will be one heckuva deep hole with the surrounding areas being cleared at a shallower perimeter. What I can't visualize is the dam area, but assume it to be further down the draw.

Thanks for the link Lassig.

Like a lot of other people, I've thought of it but buying a sawmill(er) just isn't justified for my post oak.

Pretty much it. The rought layout of the pond is at the beginning of this thread. I show the north shore as a straight east and west line and it is really SW to NE. The deep draw you see is really deep 40 to 50 feet deep. Today we filled a lot of it in. We are going to keep this area 20 - 30 foot deep. A winter and low water refuge for the fish. We will move the dirt from the east and south ends yet to make the rest of the damm. There is still some brush clearing/tree removal to be done on the north side of the pond but I am trying to keep as many trees as possible there. In this picture I am standing at the south end of the damm facing north



This is another picture where I am standing back a ways from the area but I am facing towards the damm area. It is right where the woods start.



There is a little more brush clearing to be done but that will have to wait some my dirt guy had to big a basement with it today and most likely tomorrow, long story.

A lot of work was done today on both the cutting of lumber and moving dirt. Only one bull dozer working today but he got a lot of dirt moved. We got though about 35 to 40% of the pile of Oak and Walnut. Just to add 5 more logs to it tonight from an oak and walnut removed today. The pictures from today are here; http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day5/?albumview=slideshow

I understand the cutting lumber is not for everyone but I have a lot of great red oak and walnut and at $0.25 board feet for cutting them I had to try this.

If we can get a lake project off the ground this winter there will be some lumber to cut. Trying to get a pro to cut on the halves. It would be nice to build a cabin out of the wood from the site. It would make a good story for the grandkids.

Thanks for the pictures

From your earlier posts I can tell you are familiar with sawing logs for lumber. I just want to emphasize how important it is to build a level and supported stack for air drying. Good, even dimensioned stickers are important too. Cover the stack and weigh it down to keep everything as flat as possible. Walnut is a fairly easy material to dry. It remains stable and is a delight to work in the shop if only air dried. Oak is a little more difficult. I've cut and dried lots of both. Walnut is my favorite.

R.

I build two platforms that are good and level as shown in the pictures. The problem is that I have more logs to cut up so I will end up with three stacks. Not only will I be adding weight to the top but I plan on putting a rain proof cover and use Shade-dri coth on the sides. I have all ready painted the ends of the logs with anchorseal.

Another good day of cutting lumber and moving dirt/stumps/junk. I have a ravine just west of the building site so we cut a path in there only taking out small trees and push the stumps and junk into the ravine. The side benifit is this will most likely be my future septic field. Way too many logs and going to need to build a third pile to store all of them. Feels good to do a couple good days of work. The pond is really taking shape now the only problem is that with rain in the forecast the next step is start building the dam and we are afraid to do that right now. The pictures from today are at; http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day6/?albumview=slideshow

Wow, despite all the rain delays, the project is progressing nicely! It must feel good to finally seeing it coming together.

Thanks for the update. It looks great.

Well after 5 days of nothing being done due to rain, they got back at it today. It is starting to shape up, they say tomorrow it should really start to look like a pond. Pictures as always at http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day%207/?albumview=slideshow

Well it is starting to look like a pond. There is about 4 feet more of dirt to add to the dam and it looks like the pond will be 15’ to 16’ deep at the deepest spot. The thinking is that the dam will get done tomorrow and Friday we will be laying pipe for the siphon drainage system. Then all that is left is cleanup and diversion ditches to be built. Then my work starts with placing structure in the pond and planting.
Here are the pictures from today http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day8/?albumview=slideshow

Mark

Are those trees on the bank staying? I ask because my dirt guy insisted on taking out basically anything that may potentially hit him in the face while digging. How do you know that topsoil where the trees are will hold water? Or am I missing something? Quite possible. Looking very nice though, love the slideshow.

Yes the small group of trees is staying. I don't know for sure but see no reason why it would be a problem with holding water. Those trees are on the edge of a ravine that existed before the pond was constructed. We are going to clean up the edge to where the water line will be. This edge is very steep and almost a straight drop to 15' of water. There is about 6 inches at most of topsoil (if you want to call it that it still has alot of clay in it) and then heavy clay from there on down. Most of the trees you see are 3 to 8 feet higher than the water level. Why would this be an issue with holding water?

Oh, might not be, just curious. The way the picture looks, if that bank was like what I have it'd probably wash away when full.

Well the dam is at final elevation and most of the pond basin has been shaped. Need to do some cleanup, install the siphon system (Pipe), and create two diversion ditches to get more water to the pond. Should take 2 – 3 days but we will see. Need to lay some stone in a couple of areas and that may not happen till next week some time. Then the real work starts for me, I have to get FS in to lime the area and I have to put in fish structure, fertilize and plant the area, put up wood duck boxes, etc. Hopefully I can get this all done this month yet. If anyone is bored I can solve that problem. Slideshow of today’s progress http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day9/?albumview=slideshow

Been working on the pond the last two days but things come along slow. We did get the drain pipe laid yesterday and been cleaning up around the pond. My dirt guy still has a day or a day and a half left. Need to cut the diversion ditch up north and lay stone in a couple of places. I have to get started on my part which is many days worth of work. Pictures as also at http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/day1011/?albumview=slideshow

Looking for some input on use of a landscape rack. I have a small New Holland tractor that I do a lot of work with and was wondering if a landscape rack would help clean up a lot of the roots/sticks that are around the pond before I till the area to plant. Anyone have any experience here?


Mark

Wow, it's looking great.

Thanks JHAP,

Well the plan was to get a lot of the structure in the pond Sunday but Mother Nature had a different idea. It rained 1.7” on Saturday night and that made the pond a muddy mess and hard to work in. On the good side it is holding water about 1 to 1.5’ of water right now. I did manage to get the pvc trees done. I dug the holes before the rain Saturday night and had half of the trunks in on Saturday night so I didn’t have to do all of it in the mud. I wanted to get a brunch of pallets in the pond but just to muddy to deal with that. Going to wait until I have help or it is dry enough to use the tractor.

My dirt guy has about a day to a day and a half of work left. Has to make the diversion ditch to the north and lay rock in the diversion ditches and emergency spillway. Then I can finally get started on planting the area. Hoping for some dry weather so this can get done sooner than later.

A couple of pictures of the PVC trees http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/Day12/?albumview=slideshow

Mark

You have a nice little forest started. Those will be some happy fish!

The floating pier is going right between the two forests. I cann't wait to have a sams in one hand and the fly rod in the other catching bluegills after a long day of work on the farm

I really like the countours of your pond, this is gonna be one fun place to fish.

Did ya hear that George, bluegills on a fly rod?

I have forgotten (child of the 70's) how big is the pond going to be overall?

YEAH COOL ...

I walked the water line we shot and it comes in just under 22000 square feet, so call it a half acre. The deepest spot is just over 16' deep. I have 2.5 acres of land around it the need to be planted.

Hpoe you get the weather to finish the project.

In Texas we always pray for rain but for you we will pray a little time to finish.
Good luck

Forgot to ask, I didn't secure the pvc branches in the PVC trunks. Has anyone seen an issue with this? Will they fall out over time? How to secure them? self tapping screws? glue?

I don't know if you've done yours the way I did mine, but I used zip ties. Two of them because my branches were one inchers. Drilled a hole through the trunk and branch and fed the ties through.

I was wondering if I would ever see this day but the construction of the pond is done. I spent Thursday - mid afternoon today (Sunday) working on it. This included working on the vent for the siphon system (more to do here yet), adding pallets for structure, installing the wood duck box support poles, and the biggest job of the weekend planting the 3 acres around the pond. The diversion ditches and emergency spillway where planted in a pasture grass seed mixture and oats, the areas north and east of the pond where planted in oats as the cover crop to frost seed short warm season grass and wildflowers into, and the dam front and top and building site where planted in tall fescue.

Here is the view on the south side looking NW



The south diversion ditch, this adds about 1.5 acres of drainage to the pond.



Here is the view from the east end of the pond looking west



The north diversion ditch this one adds about 4 plus acres of drainage to the pond



This is the north side of the pond, it was planted in oats as a cover crop to frost seed WSG and wildflowers into.



The emergency spilway area



This view is taken while standing on the dam looking east



This is looking at the future building site



This area was cleared out so stumps, trees, etc could be pushed into a ravine. I think this will be my future septic site



As usual a slideshow of the pics

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/final%20construction/?albumview=slideshow

Very nice lassig. It must feel great to look out on that completed project. Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm sure you covered this, but I can't find it at the moment. How was this going to be filled?

It does feel really good, but the work is never over still have alot to do next spring and a little after that I am sure. It will be filled by drainage about 8 to 12 acres worth.

It's looking great!

Very well done, Lassig...and well documented.
You will be contacted very shortly by the founding members of the Sunil-Burgermeister fathead forage society.

Thank brettski, looking forward to it. I only hope to have enough water come spring to put in a couple pounds of fatheads

OK, The start of the project and during the projects we had many rain delays. Now what I finally have the area around the pond planted there is no rain in the forecast. Wondering if three days of work and $1000 in seed and fertilizer (till in not left on the surface) is going to go to waste? How long can fescus and oats lay in the ground before germinating?

You'll get rain in plenty of time for it to germinate. The worst part is if it gets wet, starts to germinate, then goes thru another prolonged dry spell. Then the partially germinated seeds will die. If you get rain, and the ground stays damp everything will be fine. We're starting to get a lot of dew on the ground in the mornings now around here, and the ground is staying damp for quite a few hours into the day. If we had one rain to give it a good soaking I think it'll stay damp enough for it to germinate and grow. If you had planted it in late Spring, and we were going into summer, I'd be more concerned.

So when are you going to start talking about fish stocking??? You've mentioned bluegill for flyfishing and fatheads for forage.

Great Pics BTW! This is just a cool project. I rarely get a chance to venture outside of the questions and observations section of the forum!!!

You will have plenty of water to plop some fatheads into pretty much as soon as the ice comes off.

Thanks esshup, I was thinking the same but good to hear it from someone else. Rain is predicted for 5 days next week. Hopefully 2 or 3 of them will come true. We also have been having tons of dew every morning. It has really been helping my fall plots.

I have been thinking a lot about fish stocking and even have some ideas of what I was thinking about in the lastest HBG thread. Current thinking is HBG and HSB. Goining to have to do more research as to the cost of feeding for this and if I want to get that involved. I really do like the idea of catching large HBG on the fly rod and tieing in large HSBs. Right now it is time to wrap up this project until March when I frost seed the wildflowers and native warm season grasses. I only have a couple of things to do yet this fall; secure the limbs on the PVC trees, put out wood duck boxes, and plant hairy vetch/winter rye on the very steep slopes that cannot be worked with equipment. It is getting very close to the start of hunting season and time to change focus. I will post pics of the pond as it fills.

lassig-
your post sounded so final-it has been fun following the project---and looking forward to it filling up!!!

n8ly---it is good to have you in the blue collar section.

It feels good to have the basic construction finish, is it really ever finish. There still is work to do and will be every year. I will continue to post as the pond starts to mature.

Lets come up with a fish PLAN! IF you dont want to feed much, than you might want to consider a HSB and Black Crappie plan! Jeff Slipke had some awesome case studies today at the conference using those two species and various other forage minnows.

If you stocked your fatheads and shiners and black crappie this spring, and added a handful of hybrid bluegills to the mix, you could then add your HSB later in the year and possibly stock them a bit heavy to keep reproduction down to a minimum with the BC and HBG. You then would not be dependant upon pellets nearly as much as just a HBG/HSB pond would be.

10 lbs fatheads
10 lbs shiners
50 lake chubsuckers airmailed in from overtons
100 BC
100 HBG

Then plopped in 75 HSB a few months later or even next spring and you should be good to go with just a bit of supplemental feeding for fun! You would then want to replace annually or biannually the fish that you harvest from the system.

Interesting combo. Still on the fence about feeding. More due to the fact that I am not resident on the farm and may not get there for 3 or 4 weeks than cost (though it does come into consideration). My real goal is still very large BG and it seems HBG and feeding is the way to get there. I am not a LB fisherman and like fishing for HSB is I am leaning that way also. Just would like something in the pond that would also be a reproducing source of feed for the HBG and HSB. BC may just be the answer, I was leaning towards redear or pumpkinseeds since they will eat snails and things the HBG and HSB will not.

I want to make sure I understand the ins and outs of feeding. With an HBG and HSB pond would I be feeding the same size feed? For all sizes? Should I focus on smaller size feed so all fish benifit? Is feeding twice a day the best way to go (hour after sunrise and hour before sunset)? I understand that you only feed enought ot be cleaned up in 15 to 20 minutes. Don't start feeding until the water temp is 55 or above. Stop feeding when the water temp drops below 55.

If big bluegill are your priority, skip the crappie - they get too big for bluegill to eat very quickly, and beyond that they'll compete directly with bluegill for food and thus lessen the size of the bluegill significantly.

You don't have to go with hybrid bluegill to get them very large; numerous studies have found that regular northern-strain bluegill grow as large or larger in the long run on pellet food than HBG. HBG will get bigger on average in a pond that isn't fed, especially if there are a lot of FHM, and they grow faster initially regardless of the circumstances; but the state record bluegill for IL was three and a half pounds, and it was a common northern-strain bluegill. Bruce Condello on here has caught more than one northern-strain bluegill (though I should note he has his own sub-strain that he's been breeding for ten years) over two pounds. And the huge advantage of northern-strain over HBG is that the HBG are only good genetically the initial, stocking generation; they denegerate greatly even in the first generation of offspring. So you would have to re-stock them regularly. Whereas northern-strain bluegill do not degenerate genetically at all, and once you've created ideal conditions for them in your pond, all you have to do is maintain said conditions and the bluegill will get huge year in and year out with no re-stocking.

I would recommend you look into getting some of Bruce's 'gills. He's moving to a new spread, so I don't know the status of his bluegill, but if you could get some they'd be worth their weight in gold. Another possibility is the Jim Frey hatchery in West Union, IA; they specialize in large northern-strain bluegill and have been breeding them selectively for years, and they deliver to IL:

http://www.jimfreyfishhatchery.com/consulting.htm

Another note: I would recommend against HSB if big bluegill are the number one priority. HSB are a great fish, with lots of fans on here, as they get huge in ponds; but part of how they get huge is by being fond of pellet food, which means they'll directly compete with the bluegill for it. Big channel catfish will literally knock bluegill out of the way with their tails to keep the bluegill from the food; unless HSB are atypically generous among fish species, I'm guessing they would do much the same thing. At a minimum, they'll eat a lot of the food that would otherwise go to the bluegill if no other species were present that ate pellet food. So I would suggest, as someone who specializes in big bluegill, that you not stock any other species that eats pellet food: no CC, no HSB, and no grass carp (which most definitely will bully bluegill, and eat enormous amounts of pellet food).

My recommendation would be to stock 300 bluegill per acre (this number is significantly lower than those normally recommended by hatcheries, but will result in faster growth for the bluegill) if stocking fingerlings, or 150 if stocking fish 3" or larger; 100 largemouth per acre at least, perhaps 150 if stocking fingerlings; 50 redear per acre; and as many FHM as you can afford (you can't have too many of them, and the more you stock the better chance they have of establishing). You might also consider stocking grass shrimp, which are a favorite food of bluegill; TJ on here regularly puts together orders from a hatchery in NE that sells a strain of grass shrimp, P. Kadiakensis, that does well in cold climates and has successfully established in the ponds of several members on here; I just put two orders into three different BOW a little over a week ago.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post178742

Keep no bass - none. You want the bass to overpopulate because then they keep the bluegill well-thinned such that the bluegill that survive the bass gauntlet grow several times faster than they would in a pond in which there were more bluegill competing for food. The bass won't get large, but your bluegill will grow like mutants and within two or three years will average almost as much if not more in weight than the bass.

As far as pellet size, if you stock fingerlings, you would want to feed whatever pellet size Aquamax makes for fingerlings; I don't know the name of that size but they have sizes for everything from fry up to LMB pellets. After a few months when the bluegill reach 3", you can feed Aquamax 500; when a good number of the bluegill reach 6" or better, you can mix in 600 half and half with the 500.

You can feed up to three times daily in the peak feeding months, probably May through September in your region; I'm currently doing this in multiple ponds and the bluegill feed like piranhas, and are growing pretty fast. If the fish start tapering off in their enthusiasm as the water cools, you scale back to once or twice a day. Then, as you noted, when the water temp drops below 55, they'll go off the food until the following spring.

Walt,

Thanks for the detail response. My pond is 1/2 acre in size but not anywhere near full yet. So early next spring if decent water is in the pond I am goint to plant 20# of fatheads. I am not in a hurry to stock fish I would rather do it when right than rush it. So what do you think of the following stocking plan

March/April 2010 Stock 20# Fatheads and ?? PK Shrimps
May 2010 100 3-5" Bluegill
25 3-5" Redear
50 3-5" Largemouth Bass

Start feeding with Aquamax 500 at stocking of bluegills.

Sounds like a good plan! 500 to 1000 PK would be a great number to start with; put a couple bales of hay into the pond in a couple places two or three feet deep for habitat/food for them.

Is your pond 1/3 full yet? If so, you could stock the FHM and PK now. 1/3 full is the level that is commonly recommended for stocking fish by most state agencies and most better pond managers as well.

Are you going to have an automatic feeder? They make a big difference. They're always there, rain or shine, don't have emergencies that pull them away, don't feel too tired after work to feed, etc. Just the ability to feed multiple times a day makes a huge difference.

Haven't been to the farm in a week and it only had a little puddle on the bottom then that was about a foot deep at best. It didn't rain all week so most likely it is dry now. Being a drainage pond I need to wait for rain. Hoping that it is at least half full by March.

Will any type of hay due or is one type better than others? I am assuming you are talking about the small rectangular bales. I have many 900 pound round bales of wheat straw on the farm from last year.

I will have to have an automatic feeder since I am not resident at the farm and sometimes don't get there for 3 or 4 weeks.

Yeah, one foot of water won't get you far. But if it's even 1/3 full by March, you can safely stock then.

I learned the hay bale trick from TJ via Bob Lusk. I would think smaller bales would be better. You wouldn't want a bunch, because they'll lower the pH of the pond, so for this same reason I would think smaller would be better than bigger, as two small bales probably won't significantly alter the pH.

The automatic feeder will be the best money you ever spent. Make sure to get one that has at least 100-lb capacity for fish food, as you'll need that much food in it if you're only going to be there once a month or so.

Another thought: if paying a little more isn't an issue for the feeder, especially since one should be plenty for a pond that size, Texas Hunter makes fish feeders with 125-lb. and 175-lb. capacity. Sweeney also makes feeders with capacity that much or more, and those two brands are tops in quality. I've experienced firsthand and also read on here some of the problems that can come from cheaper feeders; if I owned the ponds I'm feeding now I probably would have nothing but TH or Sweeney feeders. In my experience (I fish a lake some that has Sweeneys, and have read several glowing reviews on here from TH owners) those two brands are in a class apart from the rest.

Paying a little more always hurt but I am more interested in the unit working reliable since I am not there than saving a few dollars and not working.

I think that's very wise. In that case I would suggest going with either a Texas Hunter or a Sweeney. You can't go wrong with either one of those, whereas it's eminently easy to go wrong with any of the other brands (I know from personal experience).

BA Products had some nice remington feeders being demonstrated at the conference along with the Sweeney and Texas Hunter.

All the feeders looked and worked great!

That was a great segment - I hope someone experiments with this stocking plan RE Nate. I also encourage folks to contact Jeff Slipke and request his presentation via email - I would hope he would make it available. The data doesn't lie - this plan works - huge HSB and very limited BC recruitment. Fascinating stuff IMO!

Guys I have been following this SEP (Jeff's) project for a few years. It is highly dependant on TShad as the backbone of the forage base. You will need to factor that in or out (replaced with GShiners , additional FH , LCS , or other Shad substitutes)and feeding. Obviously anytime you change species you change the dynamics. SEP does not know if the subs will work or not or if the basic plan will work outside the South (ponds with a good bloom) or the effect of feeding (no feeding in the studies). Sure worth a try as long as you consider the pros and cons. Contact Jeff for details.

Mark,
A 1/2 acre pond can produce quite a bit more fish with a put/take fishery than it can as a natural balanced. There are some real good ideas for you to consider here, but based on your goals/conversations, you may want to stick with the HBG/HSB Combo and Put/Take every couple of years. If you want to add crappie to the mix, I dont see a problem with it, because I am fairly confident the HSB will keep their recruitment to a minimum in your pond and they will provide a nice bonus/forage to the mix. You may not consistently grow 14-15 inchers, but your originals will get to 12 inches pretty quickly, and you can keep any 8-9 inch offspring that you catch if they stack up there. It is fairly easy to control their numbers in a small pond at certain times of the year if needed.

With a 1/2 acre Hybrid Put/Take with occasional supplemental feeding your fish will grow large, be very aggressive and will put some meat on the table while providing quite a bit of sporting activity as well. You may not grow the Illinois state record, but you will have alot of fun!

Dont worry about feeding the fish hundreds of pounds of food, just supplement them when you can if desired either by hand or with a feeder. If your only on the property once a month or so, I would hold off on the heavy feeding program until your in a better position to monitor fish feeding activity as well as neighbor/poacher activity. There are pros and cons to a heavy feeding program, and it is not for everyone for every situation.

****My opinions expressed here may take into consideration your goals/thoughts, etc but are heavily biased towards my small pond management/ hybrid striped bass experimental management style. Please remember that you are the pond boss and ultimately will decide the right path to take for your new little slice of heaven****

Thanks for the ideas and keep them coming guys. I have lots of ideas floating around in my head. I imagine that I will be thinking about this a lot while I am on the deer stand this fall. Not much can be done till late winter/early spring so we have plenty of time to kick this around.

THanks again

Got back to the farm this weekend and the oats and grass are coming along nicely. I planted some hairy vetch on the steep slopes that I couldn't work with machinery. The wood duck boxes have been hung in hope of being used next spring. That is about it for work on the pond till March when frost seeding of the warm season grasses and wildflowers will be done. Here is a picture of the pond area



Slide show from around the pond area

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/plus2weeks/?albumview=slideshow

A month later than the last update. A lot of the grass and oats came in great. Plus a little rain has started to fill the pond. Here is a shot of the pond area.



Here is a slideshow from around the pond

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/plus6weeks/?albumview=slideshow

Yeah, I'll say the vegetation came in well. Nicely done.

Here is the latest picture of the pond, the water level has dropped 16" to 20" in the last two weeks. Hoping it is just the ground around the pond soaking up the water and not a leak.

Still looking good. Love the panoramic shots you take. How do you do that? If you haven't mentioned it already...

I use a free program from Microsoft call ICE. Pretty straight forward to use, I just need to get the pictures taken correctly

Cool. I'll have to check that out. Sorry if you've mentioned it already...

That is cool. All this time I though ice was only something you put in a Captain and Coke.

It all looks, great, Lassig. I can see a lot of work was done, and the results are fruitful. I really love the stand of trees and steep bank with roots. Nice work.

I really like the stand of trees and the steep bank also but I am starting to be afraid that I will have to remove them. My dirt guy and doug at pond doctors beleive it is the source for my pond not holding water. We have had 9"+ of rain in the last month and the pond is barely up and dropping fast. So we are going to watch it over the winter and see if the situation changes. I doubt it will fix itself but it is the season for miracles. If things are not much improved by May the trees go. The good news (if there is any) is that the pond will be much bigger now, maybe by as much as a 1/4 acre. If we have to do this extra dirt moving I plan on using DB-200 over the entire bottom of the pond as an extra precaution.

Here is the lastest picture of the pond from last Saturday

Does the plan above sound reasonable? Other ideas?

No opinions?

Those trees do look like some kind of seep - sand/ gravel vein, etc. - could be hiding underneath their roots. If you're sure of the integrity of the rest of the pond, what else is left?

Thanks Theo, we are pretty confident that the rest of the pond is good. As you said we are concerned that there is some sand hiding under the trees sucking the water away. I guess I am hoping of a miracle and I wouldn't have to do anything, very unlikely.

Since I am not resident at the pond I am putting up a trail camera that takes time lapse photos of the water level measuring stick I put in a couple of weeks ago. I am doing this to monitor the levels of the pond and see if it stabilizes at some level, this may help identify roughly where the leak is (at least level).

If it were a leak from the trees wouldn't the water level only lower to that height? The water level in the last pic is quite a bit lower than where those trees roots are...just a thought

The concern is that we didn't get into the north shore and don't know what may be in there causing the leak. In the last pic the water is 1 to 2 feet up on the north slope that we didn't touch. So it could be hitting a sand/gravel vain that we did not see and sucking the water out. Then once we get above that the trees could cause an issue.

I do plan on monitoring the water level until May before I make a decision on what to do.

The higher the water level, the higher the pressure is pushing the water out, so the leak might be slightly below where the water level is now. I hope you get it figured out, it's a pretty site for a pond.

Thanks esshup I love the site just may have to love it with a few less trees and a little bigger pond. Time will tell

Do you know the geology of the area ? In some places trees root and grow in fractures in the bed rock. The root growth further fractures the rock. That would be the first place to check if the pond bottom is not the problem.

The geology is fairly well understood. In building the pond we moved between 13 to 15K cubic yards of dirt. In all of the dirt only 2 small rocks where found. I don't know how far down it is to bedrock but I don't think that is the issue. I leaning more towards it being a sand vain that is sucking the water away. We did hit 2 small pockets of sand while building the pond. We where able to completely dig them out and fill with clay. In total they where about 10 yards of sand and it was reomved from the pond area. Both of them where at the bottom of the ravine in the basin of the pond and the reason why I don't have the 25+ deep hole in the pond that I wanted. One of those areas is under about 8' of clay and the other in under at least 3' of clay.

What about a test bore in the tree area to see if it encounters sand and if so at what depth. I doubt the tress are the problem but they may be growing in or over a sand seam.

I have to check around and see who could do this for me. I am really hoping we stay on the wet side till May so I can be sure it is a leak.

If the trees don't cause a problem they really add to the beauty of a pond, very nice pond.

It has been a couple of months since I posted any progress on my pond so here is an update. Being winter not much is happening but I did get the trail camera in place to monitor the pond level. Still working out the kinks with this but a time lapse movie of the pond from 12/12/09 to 2/19/10 is available at

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243...dlevel_0001.flv

It does appear that the pond stabilizes at a level which is roughly in the area of where we didn't do any compaction on the north side (direction the camera is facing from the time lapse above). Talking with my dirt guy he strongly beleieves that we need to remove the trees/roots on the nroth side and escavate this area out to a slope of 3:1. This will show us if there is a sand vain causing this issue and allow us to compact this area. In addition to this he wants to add bentonite to the entire pond basin as a precaution. I am having problems spending the money for bentonite ($8k - $12K+) when I don't know if it is really going to be needed. I am planning on doing a couple of bucket tests with just the soil from the pond and see if it leaks, if it does that answers the question on bentonite being needed.

If we do use bentonite will this prohibit vegatation growth in the pond? Looking to have some water lillies on the east and new north side of the pond.

I am still waiting till May to make a final decision if the north side gets removed or not, but right now I would say there is a 99% chance of that.

Any suggestions, comments, or other plans of attack are welcome.

What about using the bentonite, then putting a couple yards of dirt on top of it in the areas that you want the lilies to grow?

That is an option to get the lillies to grow if Bentonite is used. Could use container also I suppose and that would stop the lillies from spreading out of control. I am really trying to avoid using bentonite if at all possible. Hopefully the bucket test will prove it is not needed. I am already 2.5 times over budget on this project and bentonite would make it 3.5 to 4 times over budget.

Dusty from Tx Water Lilies says it is no chance of hybrid or tropical lilies spreading too much. In fact, he said if put in a container, they will not grow to near their full potential. I did put mine in containers with a mix of clay and bank sand,to start getting them established. Should be ready to set in pond edge by June when it will be down about 2 ft. From there I will start with well water to keep level hopefully stabilized 2 ft. over the lilies.
Now if you plant lotus, all bets are off.
Dont see how an inch or 2 of bentonite would negatively effect the lilies as their roots will spread out and down.

lassig

You are going in the correct direction by waiting to make the decision. The budget is as big a factor as the amount of water loss.
Otto

Updated water level video on my pond. It has been a month since I have been there and the level is lower than I would of guessed. Not totally sure what the problem is now, will wait a couple more months before doing something, just need to figure out what that somwthing is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuivq3QpYNY

Water level still more down than up. Hoping to start working on correcting the situation here in the next week or 2. Going to remove all the trees/roots/etc on the north shoreline, enlarge the pond by resloping the north side to 3/4:1, and compact the heck out of it. Hoping this will fix the problem. If we find good clay while doing the resloping work, we will push it around the bottom of the whole pond as just an extra precaution. Here is what the pond look like last Sunday



http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/plus%209%20months/lookingnorthsmall.jpg

Here is the water level timelapse video of the pond from the middle of december till last weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI440tQfoaw

UPDATE, The rain will not stop. As soon as I get the pond drained it rains again. Hopefully we can get a two week period with little to no rain and get it done.

I did get a bucket test done this weekend to see if bentonite would help my situation or not. It appears I need between 1/2 to 1 pound of bentonite to seal my silty clay. Going to go with 1 pound to be on the safe side. Now I need to find someone that will deliver 30,000 pounds of bentonite in 50 pound bags and unload it for me. I have one quote on the material and delivery just they cannot unload it. Waiting on another quote from the local FS to come back. They said they could unloaded it for me. Still looking for other quotes, does anyone know of a bentonite supplier in west central Illinois? Anywhere to rent a heavy duty forklift?

The contractor came over on Saturday and we set a plan. I going to try and keep the pond drained out (see picture above that is about as full as it ever gets) so it dries out. Once it is he is going to come over and remove the trees and make it about a 1/4 slope on the north side of the pond. I am going to till the rest of the pond, spread the bentonite, and till it in. He is going to compact it and then cover it with clay form the north side that we saved. How does this sound as a plan?

On a brighter note than the post above the prairier planting (wildflowers and prairie grasses) is coming in nicely on the east side of the pond.

Here is a pick facing NW the shows the pond and pump in the background



Here is a better picture of the flowers still not as nice as the full size version. The annual flowers ase really pretty right now



For larger version go here http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/plus%209%20months/IMGP1400.jpg

And finally a piece of equipment that I am going to become very familiar with the next couple of weeks/months.

With the pending addition of Bentonite to the pond I am wondering what is the best way to compact the soil after adding it. My contractor has a habit of just running over it with the bulldozer while I think we need to get some sort of roller. Whats the opinion on this?

Got to the land last night and the pond has more water in it now than it every had. I drained it down to only a foot of water left last weekend and 3.5+" of rain during the week brought it all the way back up and more. So going to run the pump all weekend and try to get it empty. Looks like after Sunday there is no rain in the forecast. Plan on staying till Monday to get the pond empty. SUre wish it didn't leak we had more than enough rain to fill it a couple of times over.

On another note suppose to be getting the Bentonite delivered Monday. Hope that happens so it is here for when we do get the pond empty.

The wildflowers on the east shore are coming in better than last weekend, they are looking great. Much more color than last weekend.

You need a compactor in there, it's the only way to do it.

20,000 pounds of Bentonite chips showed up this morning along with a JD bulldozer. Now I only nee the operator to show up. He is suppose to be here in the AM with the trackhoe. Looks like we are ready to start the repairs. Figures rain in the forecast for all of next week.

Here is what the pond liked like today, fully drained



Larger version here http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/pond/before%20repair/facingnorthsmall.jpg

I need to learn that all things dirt take time. My contractor finally showed up around noon yesterday and with the hoe. So he and his son started on the trees on the north side. Here are a few pics of the work in progress, the last one is roughly how it sits right now. It may be that way for quite a while with rain in the forecast the next x days. Some say x is 3 while others are calling for a chance of rain the next 6 days. I surely hope it doesn't rain that long.

Well managed to get a full day done yesterday with my contractor cleaning up the pond adding a little good clay to the existing basin. I work 6000 pounds of Bentonite into a third of the pond and compacted it. He covered it with some more good clay but didn't get the chance to compacted it since it rained both this morning and this afternoon for a total of 1.4". He also removed over 200 yards of muck from the bottom of the pond. He got a couple of hours in today doing more clean up. With the rain this afternoon I doubt we will work on the pond again till Friday at the earlest. Here is a pick of the pond tonight, no trees on the north side and lots of water I have to pump out.



We did managed to cut around 500 board feet of lumber this afternoon before the rain. This was from a few trees we removed on the north side and one the wind storm of 2 weeks ago pushed over

Between Tuesday and this morning we have had 2.7" of rain, so no pond work will be done for a while. Hoping something can be done by Saturday. I am pumping the water out of the pond right now. As it turned out I was better off buying the trash pump than renting one. I have used the pump on 6 different days now and the rent on that exceeds the purchase price. I thought this was a 3 day job max but with the contractor stuck on a different job for a couple of days and that pushing us into a window of rain this could easily be a 2+ week elapse time job (already a 1 week elaspe time job). Hopefully not longer, it is tough sitting here and seeing all the work that needs to be done and not being able to do anything.

I bought one when we renovated the pond and found out that it was cheaper in the long run rather than renting the pump as well. I was suprised at how expensive the suction hose and the quick disconnect fittings were.

Well quite the day of work. I got on the tractor at 6AM and didn't finish until 4:30. We srpead an additional 12000 pounds of Bentonite yesterday. We did this in two lifts of 6" each. The second lift didn't get finihsed until this today. I tilled it in and compact the entire pond basin (atleast what is finished about 90%). I stille have 2700 lbs of Bentonite left (out of 20000 pounds). Here is the bentonite spread on the pond this morning



After tilling it in, I also tilled the south (right side) since I spread 6000 Pounds of Bentonite on it last Monday and didn't get a chance to till it in.



Here it is after compacting it for 7 hours with a 70 hp tractor



Here is the pond looking north as it sits now. I hope the rain holds off and we can finish in the next day or two.

Looks good now. If the clay and bentonite dont do nothing will. What is your source of water-rain?

Yup water source is runoff from about 10-12 acres. Contractor is suppose to be here shortly, hopely we can get close to finishing today

I hope you finally get the leak fixed. You've been fighting it long enough.

Thanks Scott, I sure hope this fixes it. Two guys are here now knocking out the remaining work. I hope they finish today, or at least come close.

Well we are at this point again, the pond is finished for the second time. Here is how it looks now



I am thinking of planting a pasture mixture for the ground cover but looking for suggestions on trees to plant. Thinking of a couple of river birches by the diversion ditch on the right, some norway spruce or colorado blue on the mound in front of the corn field, and a couple of maples that turn red in the fall. Any other suggestions?

Looks great, Lassig! Congrats on being done! Again.

I don't know a whole lot about trees and which do/don't make good pond accompaniments, but think you're on track with finding trees that will add nice color with the seasonal changes. Maybe look for trees that also have nice spring time coloration. And I'm sure none of us need to tell you - KEEP THE TREES AWAY FROM THE POND!!! Would hate to see you back where you just were!

Great looking place there Lassig.

Not to hijack the thread, but how far away should trees be planted from a pond?

Also it very nice looking...Good luck!

Lassig - wow, what a journey. I'm glad for you it's finally over. My best to you on creating and keeping a seal.

I love your coniferous choices. While slower growing than White Pines, they form a denser, more effective wind break. Also, both cultivars you mention, the Colorado and Norway, are beautiful.

River birches will grow large no idea on their appetite for water.

Many Maple cultivars that provide brilliant fall foliage exist. Check with a nursery but I'd stick with Sugar or Red maples. Fall Fiesta is a hardy Sugar; Autumn Spire and Autumn Flame are good choices for Reds and are more tolerant of drought conditions.

Thanks guys, it has been a journey, I hoping I can start on the next phase on stocking fish next spring. I still need to add structure to the pond this year. Thinking of changing my PVC trees to porcupine fish structures and having less of them. Also, need to get the dam reseeded and seed the north side that was just worked on. I don't plan on doing that till September when grass has a better chance to germinate and grow.

I believe keeping the trees 25' to 30' from the pond should be good enough.

We didn't find anything in the north hillside the suggested a leak so I think it was leaking out of the bottom. Hoping the bentonite solves that issue.

Bossone, while I was kind of kidding with lassig who felt the leak he was experiencing may have been caused by the trees (looks like from his last post that this may not have been the case after all), trees right at the edge of a pond can create a couple of potential issues I'm aware of, though they certainly work on pond edges for an awful lot of people. In particular, some species are incredibly thirsty and can be responsible for measurable water loss as they suck it up to meet their needs. Not all of them are this thirsty, though, so it's certainly not a blanket prohibition as to trees as the pond edge. The other issue is just the falling leaves adding organic matter to the pond which can create nutrient issues at some level or another. Like I said, many ponds work just fine totally surrounded by trees, but there are definitely some reasons to at least consider placement when you have that option available as lassig does here.

Todd - great points.

Willows and Cottonwoods are notoriously thirsty and should be avoided. If shade or windbreak is goal to reduce wave action/erosion/evaporation on a pond, you have to plant conifers as they won't drop leaves and provide year round protection.

Red Cedars are IMO the least attractive, but are hardy, drought tolerant and usually free to landowner.

White Pines grow fast, are beautiful, disease resistant but don't provide a very dense break. Avoid other pine species - tip blight and other vectors are decimating pine populations nationwide. We're about to lose all our Scotch pines - years ago it was the Austrians and Ponderosas. IMO avoid them altogether for this reason.

Norway or Colorado Blue Spruce is probably the way to go for an all around great windbreak.

Deciduous trees could be planted in other areas to provide aesthetic impact. I plan to line my easement road in both ditches with Maples for the classic New England feel in Autumn. It will be a long and arduous process, but it will be worth it. Something to consider, at least.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. The goals here (should of stated this earlier) is more for looks than a windbreak. I don't plan on planting the tress close enough together to create a wind break. I want to add some color/texture to the north shore and break up the view of the corn field in the background. The idea of the maples is to have 2 or 3 that will be great shade producers in the future. The river birch was to have something different. I will most likely have mostly norway/colorado blue spruce for the year around color and not adding anything to the pond. Any pines are out of the question, my deer will not leave them alone. I have planted over 500 in the last two years and not a one has surived. All trees planted will be caged to prevent animal damage.

I am thinking of adding a red bud or two and some dogwood for addition color in different seasons.

Gotcha - aesthetics are your primary concern. Depending on your annual precipitation you may want to consider drought tolerant cultivars of whatever you plant. Red Maples are more tolerant than Sugar - etc.

I can't wait for you to tell us what you choose - you could plant a wide variety - too cool.

TJ, I love the image in my mind that your planting vision has created. I can imagine your lane in fall with all the colors bursting off those trees. Really nice! Makes me think I should look at something like that in one area of my farm.

We have virtually NO evergreen trees in the area at all and I've been toying with the idea of getting a bunch of saplings and planting in some different areas. Anybody know of a good source for pine saplings? I know we planted literally (that's for you, Condello ) thousands of them while I was in Boy Scouts and I believe that we were given the trees for free. I'd love to find a decent local, or at least regional, source for pines.

Great sounding project, lassig. I think you'll make some great decisions and look forward to hearing how you resolve the selection process. It's great to have a clean slate to work with!

Todd:
Every Late Winter/early Spring this county and the surrounding counties have a tree sale. You can pre-order saplings from them pretty cheaply. I wonder if the same thing goes on out East?

Your state DNR agency will have several types available for Spring planting. Typically have to order sometime in the Fall to reserve. Saplings are typically 24-36" here and range from $.75 - $1.50 ea depending on the tree. Give them a call and see how to order.

Otherwise Matt Harris is a good friend, member of Pond Boss, and President of the Arbor Day Foundation. I could find out his source and could probably get a good deal. Let me know.

Never even thought of the DNR angle, TJ. Thanks for suggesting that. Scott, I've never heard of or seen annual tree sale days here, but I may start asking around about it to see if that's done here.

Appreciate the ideas, guys!

Todd, here's your first phone call:


CLEMENTS STATE TREE NURSERY



About the Nursery

Clements State Tree Nursery is located about 10 miles north of Point Pleasant, W.Va. The nursery is situated on approximately 125 acres and is capable of producing 20 million seedlings each year. Clements has been growing seedlings for more than 40 years to help West Virginia grow and stay beautiful.

With the addition of a new cold storage unit and new packing facility in spring 2000, the nursery is able to complete orders and ship them out in a more timely manner.

Tree seedlings may be ordered each year from Oct. 1 through April. Orders will be mailed from mid-November through April.



To contact the nursery


Clements State Tree Nursery
624 Forestry Drive
West Columbia, WV 25287
(304) 675-1820

Hey, that's great, Scott! Now that you've found the place for me, do you think you could run over and get them then plant them all for me, too?


I've never found that operation when I've searched, though I haven't put a whole lot of time into looking up to this point.

Thanks for the lead!

Lots of rain in the last week at the farm. The rain guage had 5" in it. I know it rained last Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday, so this is a combination from all of those times minus evaporation. The pond has just under 10' of water in it and this is almost double the amount of water ever in the pond. So far the reapir is looking good. Of course time will tell but I am hopefull.



The only problem with it filling so fast is I didn't get the fish structure back in the pond. I am converting the PCV trees to procupine structures and having finished (started) this yet. Maybe I can walk them out where I want them but afraid the water is too deep. If I have to I will wait for winter and just set them on the ice and let them fall into place.

Awesome, lassig! Congrats on the progress and the stability of your water level! That's gonna look fantastic when you get it filled!

Congrats on getting all that rain. Glad to hear the water level is holding!

We sit here and watch the major rain go with North or South of us.

I hope to get the wood duck box for the NE corner reinstalled this weekend and get the fish structure back in. Would it help to throw a couple of pallets in just below water level and 5lbs of fatheads?

If the pallets sink and the water level comes up quick, no, but if they float, yes.

I believe that they will sink, but I have been wrong before. I could attach ropes to the pallets and pull them up to shallower water if needed. Just really wondering if it is worth while getting some forage started in to pond yet this year. Long term I doubt the fatheads will survive.

I think the FHM would pull off a spawn or 2 before it got too cold, increasing the forage base. Go for it!

So what temps are we thinking the FHM would stop spawning?

What about Shiners have they already spawned this year and what size do they have to be to spawn and where can you get some that large?

I was thinking about trying to add some more if I can find somewhere to get them besides the bait shop.

Most places around here are done until this fall.

Thanks

Your pond is looking great! Got my fingers crossed things keep going well, although I think you've got it licked now.

OK I now have a good problem. We got 1.5" of rain last night and the pond is up 2' to 11' 3". Full pool is around 15'/16'. My plan is to replace my PCV trees with porcupine structures and just got the sheres in the mail and haven't gotten them assemble yet let along into the water. I am now thinking the water is too deep to put them in this weekend and may not be able to the rest of the summer. I am thinking I have to place them on the ice this winter (if we have any) to get them where I want them. Any other suggestions on how to do this?

FYI on the suggestion of Herman Brothers I added 2 pounds of fatheads to the pond tonight. I will add pallets to the pond tomorrow and I hope for a couple of hatches yet this year. This should create a good forage base for next years stockings.

lassig, if you have a boat getting them in place will be easy. Or, put a float on them, go swimming and sink them where you want them.

No boat at the farm yet, beyond this I not really seeing a need for one in a pond this small. That may change with time. I guess I am trying to be to precise in my placement of the procupine structures and was going to put them out in 2 groups of 4, with one group to the left and one group to the right of the future pier.

fill 4 or 5 tubes with sand, all on the same side, and drop 'em in

I am using the 2 brick method on a shorter piece of pipe.

OK I did a little work on the procupine structures today. Thinking about using 2 different pipe lenghts. 30" and 48" with the 48" being placed in deeper water. Here is a picture of what they look like.



Bigger picture here http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/IMGP1522.jpg

See an issues with doing it this way?

I have 8 5' long 4" PVC already drilled for PVC trees, free to the first taker.

Question : why not use the PVC tree (even sideways) vs these porcupine structures? And how many porcupines are you going to use? Looks have you have more in the back?

The trees could be used sideways and I have some that are 8' long and some of these may endup in the pond on there sides. I got a good deal in the procupine spheres and plan on putting in 9 of them. Plus I just like the procupine structures. The structure in the background are the 8' pvc trees

OK, not to steal or sidetrack Bossone's thread on planting trees around a new pond I am adding my current thinking for tree planting here.



As always comments and suggestions are welcomed

Thanks for sharing... now I'll have to post something. <smile>

I was curious why you put the spruce in the back, rather in the front so you could get some color in the winter?

Here was my thinking.

First I wanted shade reasonably close to the bank in a couple of places. The maples and later on (30+ years) the oaks will provide that.

Second I wanted color throughout the year. The color of the red maples and birches in the fall will be pretty. Plan on adding redbuds maybe earlier than later for spring color.

The spruces should give me winter color and block most of the corn/bean field behind them. Since the oaks and maples are spread far apart, they will not have leaves on in the winter, and the spruces are on the top of the bank I think they should be visisble for many years to come, if not forever, atleast my lifetime.

Now you got me thinking of moving a couple of them closer to the water

My situation is different with my pond being basically an extended back yard. We wanted to be able to enjoy the color during the winter and the the tree would outgrow the spruces and you would be able to enjoy their color as well.

Let know what you decide.

OK quick update, It dried out enough yesterday for me to physical layout the tree placement on the north side of the pond. Below is my update layout



Since the pond is almost full and very muddy I am curious if the mud will settle out by itself or need help. So to see where I am at I started a jar test. Here is what it looks like after a day, It hasn't cleared any in one day, not that I really expected it to. Curious to see what happens to this in the weeks ahead.

So, how is your confidence level of the pond being fixed correctly and that it'll hold water like you want?

Fairly high. I understand that is has only been less than 5 weeks since the repair was done and we have gotten a lot of rain over those 5 weeks. But I have a trail camera pointing at the depth guage and it takes a picture once a day (I am not resisdent at the farm). We had an 8 day period without rain and the water level dropped less than 6 inch. Then we got a 2.5 inch rain and the pond went up a foot. The pond has less than 2 feet to go to be full. Actually would of liked it to fill slower now I am fighting alot of erosion and need to get 5 - 6 days without rain so I can get the grass/oats planted.

If it isn't one thing it is another

I have this issue since my construction pond document is supposed to start in 4-6 weeks. The pond was built by damming a stream, by the south and east sides there will be less steep.

Quick update on my pond. It appears to have done well during the six weeks of no rain and dropped only about a foot. We got over an inch of rain on Saturday morning and that brought the pond back up 6 inches. Here is that current picutre of the pond, with 14 new trees added to the north side



We planted the trees on Friday but didn't get the spruces caged into Sunday morning (rain and just had to bow hunt). While Saturday night a buck got into one of them and tore a couple of branches off of it and scraped it up. Wish I had a trail camera there so I could see who it was. Needless to say he would be put on the hit list immediately.

Been a while seen I gave an update on the pond. I was able to get the fish structure out on the ice December 28. Not real clear in the picutre but I place 2 groups of 4 porcupine structures on both sides of where the pier is going to be (closest shoreline). I also took the remaining PVC trees and placed them horizonally along the far and right shoreline.



The ice came off the pond last Saturday night. It is roughly at the same level as it went into winter at. So I would say we have the leak fixed, finally.



So on to the next steps. I am going to plant a Stocks seed water edge mixture right around the water line on the far shoreline (where it looks real rough). I also have to fix the left side and get the conservation/clover mixture to take hold a little better, hopefully frost seed that in the next couple of weeks. Then sometime in the next month we are goign to be digging the foundation of the new house on the right side of the picture. Going to be a busy year.

Almost forgot, since the leak is fixed going to stock the pond this spring. Current plan I have worked out with Nate is the stock 100 4-6" HSB, 250 3-5" HBG, and 100 3-5" BG. This is a little heavy for a pond this size but plan on feeding. Nate gave me a good deal on a Texas Hunter feeder last winter. Also, going to be adding a couple more pounds of Fatheads in the next month. I want those HSBs to be able to just open their mouths and eat.

That's great news, both on getting the leak fixed and starting the house. How did you do during goose season? We ended up with between 50 and 60 on the ground. (Greater Canadians)

Not including what we shot in Sask. we ended up with just over 80. Really a slow year. Usually we shoot 150 - 200. I was at the farm last weekend pruning fruit trees and took a load of building supplies down. I had snow geese all over the place on Saturday. Many where looking to land somewhere and eat. On Sunday while I was packing up to come home I had a flock of 100 - 150 snow geese come right over the trailer at 30 yards. I think that did that on purpose since the shotguns where at home

We're too far East here, we never see any snows. I'd like to get in on one good snow hunt one of these years.

Pond is at an all time high of 12' deep. 2 to 3 more feet and we are full.



I slightly changed my tree planting plan and got them planted late last October. Same day my buddied shot a 146" 3 beam buck on my farm 5 minutes after shooting time (atleast he did waste a lot of time)



Ok now for the next phase of the project. Yesterday we cleared the building site for the house.

Looking to the north before



After

Looking South before



After



The house is a basic ranch of just over 1500 sq ft and a big garage. Here is the rough plan for the basement



Firstfloor



Current plan is to dig the basement around the 24th of this month.

OK daylight is buring and I need to get some foodplots bushhogged before heading home.

Just for Scott, I saw thousands of snow geese migrating over my farm yesterday (and last week)

Thanks! You really know how to hurt a guy.

The locals (Greater Canadians) are pairing up now that the ponds are thawing out.

The house plans look good! Lets hope the rain stays away long enough for you to get the basement done, then rain like heck to fill up the pond.

Well they did say we would start digging the basement around the 24th just not what month. Turned out to be April. Starting digging the basement on Saturday and got most of it done.



Yesterday they finished digging the basement and poured the footings. I had to be at work so all I have is the security camera shot for this. Not the best but was nice being able to watch them work yesterday.



After 8 days on Turkey hunting I was able to get a Jake on Saturday. First turkey I have shot in 2 years. Been tough on the farm this year.

Didn't realize it has been this long since I updated this post. The house got build last year to the point the exterior was done (minus deck). Here is a slide show of a few pics from a year ago. The only thing that has changed is the grass is longer and the chimney has been wrapped in fieldstone.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/lassig/110925/?albumview=slideshow

I may actually get to finishing the deck next year if the funds hold up after the kitchen gets done.

Now all of the interior rough in is done, I finished it over the winter. This included hanging the drywall. I got smart and hired a local guy to tape the drywall and prime the walls. This was in May. Since then I been trying to finish the Master Bathroom and accomplish this a couple of weeks ago




Now working on the two bedrooms. The flooring for these rooms is 3/4" walnut in 2 1/4" and 3" widths. The wood was harvested from the site when the pond was being build. I have oak flooring (also harvested from the site). I spent a week ago finishing the flooring and just completed finishing the doors and trim. The doors are installed but have to get the trim in, that is on the schedule for this week. Here is a shot of the floor



The other job I have mostly completed (still need to tuckpoint a small section) is the fireplace. My brother inlaw help me get this beast of a firewall install and laid the stone on the fireplace.



What next after getting trim installed in the bedrooms is to get the pine carsiding on the great room ceiling and finish the fireplace. After that it is on to installing the oak flooring in the great room and hallway.

Been a while since I posted an update. The inside of the house is done, has been for a couple of months. Also the deck got finished. A short pictorial of the house is available at

http://s290.photobucket.com/user/lassig/story/9443

Spent a little time fishing this afternoon before deer hunting. Caught a personal best hybrid striper, little over 16" 2 lbs 6 oz.



Caught it on a Clouser Minnow. Problem is I was fishing for the rainbow trout I put in the pond a couple of weeks ago. Caught 7 HSBs but no Rainbows. Going to have to figure out how to catch the rainbows, assuming it will not too difficult. Fortunately I already have Venison meatloaf prepared for dinner and didn't go hungry.

Went to town today I came home to a very happy event. The pond is FULL.
Finally after the drought of 2012 the pond filled up today. It was 3 to 4 feet low and the combination of snow melt and rain has it right now just an inch or two from going through the overflow. I had the feeder in front to the dock and moved it last night in prep for the water to rise. I didn't expect it to rise this much but glad it did and happy that I moved the feeder last night. Here is a picture of it at 4:45 ish. It is up a couple of more inches since than



To put this is perspective here is a picture from 8 days ago. Notice the cages on the far shoreline and how far they are out of the water/snow. Right now the water is on the other side of them and some of them are in a foot of water. The cages are on the left side of the picture above.

Congrats Mark!! I remember all the problems you had with it a few years ago.

Awesome! Congrats lassig!

Awesome!

Thanks Guys I been wondering if this day was going to come. Now of course need to stay there for a while. Watch out for the wind on the back side of this storm, it is really blowing here now.

I was always told life is full of ups and downs. This is definitely a downer. Just two weeks ago the pond was all but full, water didn't start flowing through the siphon system but was real close. Now 2 weeks later and sub freezing temps the pond is down over a foot. Now the ground surrounding the pond was frozen but is also very dry, really no soil moisture going into winter. I think this is way to much to be caused by wicking alone, am I wrong? It has been 3 years since the pond was this full and it held water then at this level. Wondering if I need to start looking for a leak in the top 4 feet or hope of lots of spring rain and see if it comes back up and holds.

Mark, I'd take a wait and see attitude. Don't panic just yet.

Where is the fun in that. I wish I knew 4 years ago what I know today about compaction. I agree with you Scott and usually my pond doesn't look much different than others in the area. The next pond (I hope) will be different.

Lassig, I have a similar situation at my pond. I run my well and I'm at full pool within a day or two, depending on how far down it was when I started. I shut it off for a week and my level dropped two feet. It was similar to the thread titled Ice Bowl. Looked like one of those skateboard parks.

Here in Nebraska, we also have the low winter precipitation problem and because the water I'm adding to the pond is not coming down my banks, but slowly rising from the bottom up, the upper banks are not getting saturated. It makes sense to me why the level drops like it does right now, however I don't like it much either.

I'm taking Scott's suggestion of wait/see.

Josh, in looking at your pond, I'm not 100% sure that it was compacted properly. You might have to deal with the same problem I do......... If by the end of summer it's still doing the same thing, then you'll know for sure. At least you have the well to fill it up!

My rainbows are not waking up from the winter. Ice has been off the pond for a week now. Fished the pond hard last Saturday and only had one on. Tried feeding the last couple of days with the warmer temps and no takers. Any way to wait these fish up? I assuming they are still there only took 4 out during the winter. Put in 25 to 30 last October. In for a cold couple of days now so not expecting them to come out of there funk.

nice .... maybe a yellow in the middle of the two red maples?

My grandparents did that around the back of their garden by the house about 80 years ago and they are awesome ... pulled hard maples they liked out of the woods. The contrast in color helps set them off, I think. I trimmed back that big bright orange one in front that came up later ... blocked everything.

oh ... maybe I replied to a 3 year old post ... oh well.

Well it is definitely a leak the pond is down a good 2 1/2' to 3' since it was full 3 months ago. Very little rain in this area this year but all other ponds in the area are much fuller. Maybe down a 1' at most.

On a bright note I caught the first two true 1 lb HBG from my pond last night. The first was 1 lb 2 oz and the second was 1 lb 1 oz. Both where roughly 10.25" long.

AARRRGGGG!! I know how hard you worked at sealing it the 2nd (or was it the 3rd?) time!

Congrats on the HBG!

Had a somewhat surprise HSB delivery yesterday from Rex. Nice to have a second year class of HSB in the pond. The originals where planted in Oct '11 and are now averaging 3 pounds. Who likes to eat HSB? I need to remove some from the pond to make room for the new ones.

Mark, I don't know about HSB, but from eating Stripers, remove the dark meat along the lateral line and soak them in milk for a bit.

Won't those new fingerlings just become breakfast for the larger HSB?

They shouldn't, the gape on the HSBs is really small. This one is 2 lb 14 oz and look at its gape.

Decided to increase the pond clarity on my pond and went the ALUM method with the master applicator himself, Rex Rains.

Setting up



Getting some lime into a slurry



Applying the lime to the pond



The last spot to spray



About 5 PM tonight, the water clarity is 24 - 30 inches, just a lot of algae was brought up to the surface. I hope the rain tonight dissipates it.



When the fish feeder went off tonight the fish didn't feed but there was a lot of floating algae in the area that the fish food is throwing into. Once the fish food was in the clear water the fish starting feeding hard on the food.It was great seeing the fish actually coming up for food.

More to come on this, hope to see 36 to 48 inches of visibility when this is all done

Can't see the pics. It says the pic was either moved or deleted.

Sorry Dave I posted this and then moved all of the photos to their own album on photobucket and forgot to fix the links. They are fixed now. If interested here is a link to all of the pictures from yesterday

http://s290.photobucket.com/user/lassig/pond/Pond%20Clarity/story

We have received 0.44" of rain since the application was done and the algae is gone. The water visibility is over 4'. I couldn't measure any deeper since that is the water depth at the end of the pier.

Nice looking place. Do you want 4 ft of visibility?

Thanks Dave, to be honest I wasn't really sure what I wanted, just better visibility than the 9 to 12" that I maybe had. We definitely got a lot more than I was expecting to have happen. I assuming with the added clarity that it will not take long before a bloom happens and the visibility gets into the 24 to 36 inch range which is what I would like as a final point.

I think there is good chance that it will.

A little update, received 2" of rain yesterday but more of an all day event and not in 10 minutes. So not as much runoff. The pond ended up going up 5" and the visibility is down to 30" (from 48"). But without the ALUM treatment the pond visibility would of been about 2" so it is really doing its job.

Mark, did you do another jar test after the latest rain to see how quickly the water clears?

I haven't but I could, assuming just put the water in the jar as before but dont add ALUM this time right?

I have been measuring visibility each morning at 6AM. It was 48+ the first 2 mornings. Then the 2" all day rain event happened as mentioned above. The visibility went down to 30" and then the next day was 36 and this morning it was back down to 30. The water is real green so I am assuming that a good bloom is going on. I plan on taking a water sample on tuesday morning for Bill to analysis what the water is like a week later.

I would think a beneficial bloom would be getting healthy about now.

You're right on the jar test, no alum. leave it in sunlight 2 days to see if any sediment is there, then in dark 2 days to kill any algae. If by chance it is still a little cloudy, the try a little alum and shake.

Well it has been a LONGGGGG time since I have been here and it took a possible problem to bring me back. I have to change that and return more often.

The last couple of days I have had this algae bloom occurring on my pond and not sure what it is or if it dangerous to my fish. I haven't seen any dead fish during this time. The fish are still feeding actively 4 times a day and the aerator runs 12 hours a day from 7P to 7A. The water level is lower than usual with the lack of rain for months.

Should I be concerned about this? Anything I can do to clean it up?

Mark, good to see you posting again!

I'd have to defer to Bill Cody for the type of algae. As to whether it's harmful or not, I'll fall back on the "it depends" line. It depends on whether it uses up a ton of O2 (meaning enough to leave the fish without enough O2) during the night or not....

Thanks Scott, I sent Bill an email yesterday on this after talking with Nate. I appears I am feeding to much this year and that extra load with a lot of fish in a low pond has created this situation. I cut back on the feeding for now and going to try and treat the algae with some bacteria pellets from Nate. Just need to free up from work to go and pick them up.

Don't forget to go fishing and remove some fish too!

That's on the to do list. Just need a couple of buddies over and have a fish fry