My selected pond site (1 acre) includes some intermittant stream bed. So, to be legal, I'll need a Corps of Engineers regional permit, as well as a State EPD permit. The 300 LF of affected stream bed will most likely have to be mitigated. (I haven't been officially told any of this yet)
The one pond builder I've managed to find got real shy when he heard about the stream bed.
How many of you guys have had to go this route, and what kind of money are we talking about?
Contact Jersey he went thru it a few years back. Not a pleasant experience as best I recall. You can pm him from this thread
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=10505&Number=113865#Post113865
Soon as I saw Skipsters location, I immediately thought of Jersey. Rockytopper was right....not a pleasant experience.
Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.
Guess it's time to bring out my motto:
"No Guts, No Glory!"
I believe Jersey would say that persistence is the key.
This can be a slow process that will be easier with help from someone that has been down the road. Persistence and patience is the key.
OTTO
Dumb luck was as important as persistence. I had a great congressman walk through the system with me. The ACoE will give you two choices. Bribe, I mean MITIGATE, translation, give them a few tens or hundred thousand dollars, or don't build. The NRCS is useless.
Do a Google search for "Riparian Rights".
I don't I would have told them that.
IIRC, there was someone who posted here a year or two back that had the Federalis hounding him 8 or 10 years after he built his pond. Does anyone remember the details? I think he was in Ohio?
Just as an aside, while doing some research yesterday, this thread came up on a google search 3 different times. Kinda makes you feel like you live in a glass house.
I spent two years fighting the state DEQ, township, and county getting the right permits for my hole. Still not done yet as I dont have all the grass planted around the pond so I can get my final approval and be done with them.
You will probably want to shoot yourself 3-4 times through the process, but in 10 years when you are enjoying your pond it will be worth it. It makes you understand why government workers go "postal"
Rex,
In the course of dealing with all the agencies you listed, did you have to fork over any $$$$$ for the permits. What would happen if you did not plant grass around the pond?? Would you be fined or forced to drain the pond?? Just curious. Never had to deal with this for my permit from the state.
Russ
Holy Jeeze!
It seems the more I learn the more I find out I don't know.
I keep hearing Music from Rod sterling's "The Twilight Zone" mixed with the Beatles "Long and Winding Road".
I ask consultants: "How much will it cost?"
They say: "How much you got?"
I just hope it doesn't take me 10 years to enjoy my pond.
Rex,
In the course of dealing with all the agencies you listed, did you have to fork over any $$$$$ for the permits. What would happen if you did not plant grass around the pond?? Would you be fined or forced to drain the pond?? Just curious. Never had to deal with this for my permit from the state.
Russ
I paid $100 to the state DEQ so they could tell me where to put my pond
I paid $160 to the county so they could make me plant grass on the pond banks (cant have soil erosion)
I paid $500 to the township so they can make sure the pond is not too steep and who knows what else. They also would not let me sell any of my sand. I do get part of the $500 back, depending on how many inspections the township has to make.
The reason I had to get so many permits is because my pond is in a 100 year floodplain, otherwise I could have skipped the DEQ
They made me get a complete survey and submit a plan. Cost almost $6000. They never looked at it. Then there was a $700 environmental impact fee. I'm still not sure who's environment I impacted, other than my own.
The story use to be it did not cost much money until you move some dirt. That has changed at least in some places, do not give up.
OTTO
I'm debating weather to "go solo" with the permit application.
I've had guys tell me they can help with the permit, for like 5 grand! I can't throw money away like that. I know what I want, I can do the drawings, I just need someone in the know looking over my shoulder. (who doesn't need to retire in the next 5 minutes)
If any of you guys know someone in my area, (Savannah District, COE)I'd appreciate a recommendation.
Chat with your Congressman Jack Kingston. My late father-in-law was his aid. The guy would be appalled at the hassle you have to go through. If he cannot directly help you, he will try to find someone who can.
We lived in northeast GA for ten years and just moved up to northern VA about two years ago. In that part of GA, no permits were needed for ponds. When we moved up here, I expected a huge hassle in the preliminary stages of planning for a pond. I checked very thoroughly, and was pleasantly surprised to find nothing. I then chatted with the county's enviro. engineer and told him everything I had found. I almost fell over when he said there were indeed no restrictions, no permits for what I was proposing. I almost felt like I was living in a free country again.
What county do you live in?
Chat with your Congressman Jack Kingston. My late father-in-law was his aid. The guy would be appalled at the hassle you have to go through. If he cannot directly help you, he will try to find someone who can.
We lived in northeast GA for ten years and just moved up to northern VA about two years ago. In that part of GA, no permits were needed for ponds. When we moved up here, I expected a huge hassle in the preliminary stages of planning for a pond. I checked very thoroughly, and was pleasantly surprised to find nothing. I then chatted with the county's enviro. engineer and told him everything I had found. I almost fell over when he said there were indeed no restrictions, no permits for what I was proposing. I almost felt like I was living in a free country again.
Frederick County. I was pretty stunned at his response, as this is the oldest county in VA west of the Blue Ridge (G. Washington had his survey office in Winchester). Older often means more bureaucracy.
No real progress to report yet other than an evolving perspective. By that I mean I have learned a lot in the last month. This forum is a great warehouse of knowledge. I have totally become a junkie.
That said, I want to apologize for the comments I made about consultants. I know some of the major players here do this for a living and I'm sure they provide a valuable service.
I've met a pond contractor whose sister is a NRCS agent. Hope to get the ball rolling soon.
After we clean up this brush pile, the pond will go in behind it.
Skipster
You are on the right path with a pond builder that has connection.
The picture looks great, in my country the next time you would see the brush pile it would be on fire. Are you burning or chipping.
OTTO
The brush pile is much larger now that we're cleaning up. I'd say it's about 130 feet long, 20 wide and 10 high. (so far) We should finish Friday. I'll post a pic before we (the forestry folks) burn it. Gonna be one heck of a blaze!
I would only burn about a 20' pile one at a time. As a firefighter who has fought brush fires and as a homeowner who has started them, believe me they are no picnic
Burning brush piles go on often around here and believe me there cannot be enough care taken to make sure that nothing goes wrong.
Except for the running of the chain saws this is the most stressful part of the job.
Be careful but send pictures.
Otto
By the way where is Birch Run
I was moderately freaked out by my dirt-guy's tree burning practice. First of all, I never dreamed that green, freshly downed trees would burn. Stupid city boy. Once it's lit, green timber burns fairly slow but it requires alot of attention with the dozer and track hoe as they constantly adjust and compact the mass to continue a thorough burn. As promised, the only thing left is root balls. As we cut into the virgin block of timber to remove trees (many) to create the road to get to the pondsite, there were 2 smaller burn piles of trees created on the way that got torched right under the remaining forest canopy. That's the fires that freaked me. He reassured me that they haven't lost one yet. A gallon or two of diesel, a match, and maybe an old tire (sshhhh).
Hope the burn went well. Did you get any pictures.
OTTO
Up by me, They've been digging up apple orchards and using gas powered fans to stoke the fires.
We have the pile consolidated. Some of the material was pretty wet. (It's been sitting since last fall.) I plan to give it a couple weeks to dry out. I contacted the state forestry folks about a permit, and they suggested I hire them to burn the pile. The fee is very reasonable, and they will stand by with their equipment. I want to set it up for a Friday, so I can camp out with my kids for the weekend and keep an eye on it.
Make it hardwoods instead of pines, and that pile looks REAL familiar to me.
Its been 5 yrs so I guess Im safe now.The pond,its always been there,as far as I know.Im sorry sir,I have NO recollection of those events at this time