Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Will feed trained bass adapt to natural forage?

I looked all over the forum but can't locate an old topic covering this.

I am not finding any fish farms that do not feed pellets to their LMB. All of their fish are feed trained.

I am planning on stocking 1 lb. feed trained LMB into one pond that will have a feeder this spring....so all is ok there. However, I plan to add these same 1 lb. feed trained LMB to two other ponds to help diversify the genetics as none of these BOWs have been stocked in more than 60 years. No feeders will be on those ponds.

Are these feed trained bass going to be able to adapt to natural forage in our two ponds without feeders? Research I have done on the topic goes both ways and is not consistent. The most recent issue of PB, in an article by Bob Lusk, seems to infer that most or many of these feed trained LMB won't do very well when they need to figure it out on their own....but he does not say it won't work (at least that is the way I am reading it).

Anyone have experience with this? Are there hatcheries out there that actually feed minnows and/or other more natural forage to the fish they sell? I am of the opinion that once these pellet trained fish get hungry enough nature will take over and the transition can be made. Any opinions? Thanks. BM61.

Try using the fingerling bass as a source for your bass stock or supplemental stocking. Many hatcheries sell YOY(young-of-year) bass in the fall that are not pellet trained. Older bass at hatcheries are often pellet trained. 1. The younger the bass is the more likely it will resort to eating natural forage. 2. If you have pellet eating LMB the subsequent generations will have fewer pellet eating bass. Select the younger bass (offspring) in these ponds for transfer where you want them to readily adapt to fish forage. 3. Collect your fish eating bass for transfer by catching them on lively fish such as small BG or shiners. These caught bass will at least have a tendency to eat forage fish.
Lusk generalizes in many of his articles and leaves a lot of unanswered questions. My ideas above should help you solve your problem.

My problem Bill is that I am stocking into existing 60+ year old ponds that we are in the process of rehabbing. We are in the middle of executing a plan after an electro-fishing survey last May and have met or come close to the harvest targets we put in place for 2016 (we have a few more fish to harvest in one of the ponds before we bring in the new genetics).

These stockers need to be able to survive with 14-16 inch LMB that are already in residence in our BOWs. I would assume anything less than 5-7 inches or so would probably not be much more than a snack. So I don't think we can do fingerlings.

Sounds like we need to keep our fingers crossed that the larger stockers can make the transition......or at least a decent number of them. We have a good amount of forage in the ponds right now so hopefully that will ease the process. Thanks. BM61

IIRC there was a PBM article a few issues back on just this subject. The study looked at whether pellet fed LMB could compete with wild LMB. As I recall, the pellet trained fish did not do that well. I'll see if I can find the article.

Edit: Ok, found the article. It was more than a few issues back.

Jan/Feb issue 2015 - The article is one of Eric West's Cutting Edge series. The discussion is survivability of pellet trained LMB.

Hope that helps.

P.S. Thank you Bill Cody for providing a summary of each year PBM articles in the archives. Sure makes finding old articles a lot easier!

Well if fingerlings are not an option the use my other suggested methods 2 & 3 of collecting bass for transfer. If your habitat is conducive to bass recruitment (weed beds) then ladder stocking of fingerlings are a viable option.

Look in the recent Pond Boss mag with the Cutting Edge article about the subject in depth study on a Fla lake Bill D referenced above.

Maybe another couple options to investigate...

I would PM Rainman and see if he can deliver some non-pellet trained LMB to you.

FWIW the fish farm I use does not pellet train their YP so I sent an e-mail to one of the biologists I know there to see if they could deliver 8+ inch LMB that are not pellet fed. The farm is in Illinois so no interstate transport issues. I'll let you know when I get a reply.

bassmaster61 Would it be reasonable to hand feed the stockers for a period of time in your two old ponds as they acclimate to their new environment and natural forage? Perhaps a few weeks of only supplemental feeding would keep them healthy as they transitioned to finding their own grub.
Just a thought. I have no experience with this, but it is something I would try, especially if, as Bill Cody recommends, you have bass recruitment habitat in the ponds.
Maybe at the same time, you could cripple some forage fish by fin cutting to make it easier for the new arrivals to catch them.

Unfortunately, since I am still chained to the working world, our BOWs are at a weekend place so hand feeding on any kind of consistent basis is not an option.

I looked at the recent PB article and another ewest wrote some time ago that I saw on the Bass Resource site and it looks like my stocking project in ponds without feeders may not be as successful as I anticipated.

But it sounds like I should have some survivors and I am going to have to be happy with that. We really need some new genetics in these ponds. As I mentioned above, none of the 3 have been stocked in more than 60 years (since their initial stocking in the mid to late-1950s). Thanks as always for the advice and opinions. BM61.

Just to close the loop on this, the fish farm I use got back to me and provided they also only have pellet trained LMB and they think finding one's that are not trained could be very difficult.

Thanks Bill D. I appreciate the legwork. And I agree, finding larger (or really just about any size)LMB that are not pellet trained seems very unlikely. We will just make do with what we can get our hands on.

BTW, I think we are in the same neck of the woods. I have been talking to Logan Hollow Fish Farm. They are in Murphysboro, IL....about a 2 1/4 hour drive south of our place in Macoupin county IL. Thanks again. BM61.

We are just east of Rockford. The fish farm I use is Keystone in Richmond, IL (not far from Wisconsin border).

This may help you a little. The last three years I have been leasing a 10A. quarry that has had no fish added as far back as anyone can remember. There are existing bass in the pond. A pond manager thought we needed to add some new genetics so this spring we added 50 8-10 in. LMB that were pellet trained. They did go to pellets this summer but also were very active in the sallow area when we added fatheads and also BG fry. They were not hard to catch on lures this fall and had grown very well. I even caught one through the ice the other day and his belly was full of something. It seems they like their pellets but prefer natural forage.

Herman Brothers , (Nate) might have some ideas or access to larger LM that aren't pellet trained. He is north of you , could be worth an email or call. Let him know you're a pond boss member.

Nate is who recommended my adding new genetics after he visited our pond after a seminar in our area.

You have a large body of water.

Do you have a good amount of structure and cover? If you do, you could very well introduce the bass fingerlings with a crapton of fathead minnows and might find that a number of fingerlings grow out, or even a fair number. Provided there is structure and cover. With that much surface area it is hard to think all but a small number would survive.

Depending on the layout of the pond and structure and cover you might also be able to coral off an area to rear your LMB fingerlings in, feeding them minnows, prawns, and pellets maybe if you had to to grow them in a safe container. Again, with that much surface area you might be able to do this quite easily.

I got some LMB fingerlings that were pellet fed but they ate immediately when the minnows were dropped in. There was no hesitation by most. They just munched them. And then they stopped feeding on the pellets. Some never went back to pellets. A few ate live and pellets, but ultimately the only ones who ate the pellets were the runts. This is my unique experience - yours might be different.

bassmaster61- You never mentioned how big the water/s are that you are dealing with for these pellet trained bass. I have found that if you fish the furthest areas away from the feeder with live bait you are most likely to catch fish eating bass.

Yes, beastman, Nate Herman did do our fish electro-survey and devised the plans to manage our 6.5, 1.6 and 1.5 acre BOWs. Our goal is to consistently catch a good number of 2-4 lb. LMB. He recommended that we add some new genetics after meeting specific LMB harvest targets in all of the ponds.

The feeder will be on the 1.6 acre pond and we will add 75 feeder trained LMB and 400 adult native (5-7") bluegill there.

The 6.5 and 1.5 acre ponds will both get some new genetics (LMB & BG)but they will not have feeders.

Thanks jgr and basslover....your success gives me some optimism.

The fish farm Nate recommended does not have anything but feed trained LMB & BG. I will get back in touch with him to see who else he might recommend. And Bill D., I did talk to Keystone but we are way downstate from you (45 minutes north and just east of downtown St. Louis). They quoted a delivery charge to our place of $400.

Thanks for the comments and information as always. BM61

You don't need a lot of fish to freshen the genetic pool. I see it as you having 2 options.

1) Stock some 2# feed trained bass in Feb or March. They will be sexually mature and will spawn this year.

2) Stock 75 fingerlings per acre. Fin clip them all to ID them. Not everyone will be eaten, and when you are doing your bass culling, return those to the pond.

Yes, feed trained bass will revert to natural forage.