Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,056
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,407
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
15 members (Donatello, Freg, tws3, rjackson, jpsdad, Layne, jludwig, Shorthose, DenaTroyer, Theo Gallus, Tinylake, catscratch, Brandon Larson, Dave Davidson1, Blestfarmpond), 643 guests, and 177 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 16
S
ScottO Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 16
Hello,

I'm a long time bass fisherman and a short time pond manager. My wife and I recently purchased a 15 yr old custom built home in southern Indiana that has a 1 acre pond. My goal is to have a great Bass and Bluegill fishing pond. The first thing I've done so far is fish it about a 6 times to see what I was getting.

So far the bass population is good. However they're small. My brother-in-law and I have caught over 30 bass in a day a couple times already. They range from 8" to 15". The 15" are far and few between. Most common size 11'-13'.

The bluegill (Hybrid) population is low. However the size of the bluegill we've caught are very large! I've got large hands and I can barely get my hands around them. laugh Good problem to have I know. :-)

The previous owner says that there are about a dozen decent size catfish in there. He's wasn't sure if they were channels or flatheads. I've fished for them a few times and haven't caught one yet to verify. I'm hoping channels and not flatheads.

Structure is sparse in the pond as it seemed to be a bit more for cosmetics than fishery, so there is very little visual structure and little visible vegetation. About 40% of the pond has cattails on it the come out about 2' from the ponds edge. NO down timber, or stick ups. No rip rap or lily pads. It does have a grass carp or two. The pond is very clear! It also has several mussels in it. Not seen any crawfish yet. There are also a decent number of frogs in the cattails.

My objective: I want my Bass to grow much larger (if possible). I'd also like to improve structure and vegetation. So that I can help improve my bluegill numbers (Have places for the BG fry to hide).

So far, all I've done is order 50 lbs of fathead minnows to help fatten up the bass and take the pressure off the bluegill fry.

What do I do next? How do I improve vegetation/structure (without over doing it)? Any and all help is appreciated! :-)

Thank you!
Scott

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
If your goal is larger bass those hybrid gills aren't going to cut it. Not enough forage for hungry largemouths. I would look into stocking some larger, northern bluegills. They will be the backbone of your food chain, unlike hybrids. You might also begin removing some of those skinny bass.

Have you researched the archives devoted to structure? Lots there to read.

Almost forgot....have you considered supplemental feeding for the bluegills?? (northern bluegills)

Last edited by sprkplug; 10/07/14 11:07 AM. Reason: added feeding advice...

"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Scott, welcome to the forum.

Unless you have very deep pockets you will go broke trying to fatten up the bass that are in there. Each individual LMB needs to eat at least 10 pounds of fish per year to gain one pound in weight. So, the FHM that you stocked is enough for 5 bass........

Your pond can support roughly 75 to 100 pounds of bass of all sizes. So, divide that number by the weight of the LMB that you want to grow and you'll see that you won't be able to support a large number of large LMB.

You'll see quicker results by removing a lot of the bass from your pond, I'd start with removing at least 30 pounds. Also. like sprkplug said, you'll need to get some non-hybrid northern bluegills in there to provide forage food for the LMB. Typical stocking ratios are 20-30 BG per LMB. But, with the size of the LMB in there now you should stock BG that are 5" long or larger to prevent them from being eaten as soon as they are stocked.

The catfish, if they are over 3# each, will compete directly with the LMB for food.

You might want to give some thought to draining, killing and starting over - it might be less expensive in the long run to do that. Once it's drained, you can place cover in the pond much easier too.

There's many other options besides LMB/BG. Just food for thought.... HSB/SMB/RES/HBG

Here, this might make it a bit easier to understand us. wink
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 16
S
ScottO Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 16
Thank you gentlemen for the good information. You've opened up my narrow mind to new possibilities :-) My mind is now flooded with thoughts and questions.

With the pond being 1 acre and it's max depth of 14', I guess I've just never given any thought to adding SMB or HSB. I find this very intrigueing! :-)

It also concerns me a bit drainging/killing. Wouldn't that take a LONG time to get back to productive fishing again? Or with it being October, now would be the ideal time to do it?

What kind of costs would I be looking at if I did that?

On the BG side. Are there any pro's or con's to having several species of panfish (Sunfish, BG, pumpkinseed, etc...)? Do the LGB or SMB mind which kind are in there? I wouldn't think so...but I don't know. Also, should I consider getting rid of all the catfish?

If I went with SMB, LMB and HSB, can they all co exist? Will there be enough food?

That's enough questions for now... Thank you all again for all the great insight! Looking forward to reading your answers!


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Scott, I will defer to esshup on the costs associated with killing off the pond and starting over. He's a lot more knowledgeable in that regard than I am, as are quite a few on here.

Yes, you will lose some fishing time while your new population comes into its own. But in most cases the tradeoff is quite worthwhile, and many folks use the time to make improvements.

As far as the bluegills (sunfish), the most commonly stocked in our area would be northern strain bluegills, (BG) and Redear sunfish (RES). They perform well together, and occupy slightly different niches in the pond ecosystem. Certainly you have other options, but it becomes a matter of weighing the pros and cons of each, and deciding where they fit in with your goals.

Smallies and largemouths are generally not stocked together, as the largemouths tend to dominate and out-pace the SMB. Oftentimes, the smallies disappear over time. HSB are a lot of fun in a pond, and make a great "bonus" fish. They take pelleted feed readily, should you decide to implement a feeding program. Speaking of feeding, If doing so appeals to you I highly recommend it. Lot of bang for your buck there.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,407
Likes: 788
Costs.....

To kill and start over?

As with all things related to ponds, that depends. (where have we heard that before??) wink

You can kill a pond 2 ways, rotenone or hydrated lime. Both work as about as well, just make sure that enough is used. It's less expensive to drain down the pond so there is less water in the pond to treat. If it's a dammed up area, and it has a drain pipe with a valve, then the valve can be opened to drain out the water. If no valve or a dugout pond, renting a 3"-4" or 6" trash pump and pumping out the water is a viable option. You can get the pond pumped down in less than a week.

Here's a good write up on how to do it.

https://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/pond/upload/Rotenone-Starting-Over-January-February-2008.pdf

A gallon of rotenone, depending on where it's purchased can run $120-$150. You need a chemical applicators license to purchase it.

Hydrated lime needs no license to purchase, you just have to use enough to get the pH to 12.

Draining will also let you get a good look at the pond bottom, and if there is a foot or more of muck, it will allow you to dig out the muck, which will remove a lot of nutrients in the pond, which contribute to growing algae. It doesn't *HAVE TO* be done, but once the fish are in there, it's an impossibility to do it without costing huge $$ amounts (dewatering bags and sucking the muck out) or using a dragline (makes very turbid water and if there's cover in there that you want to keep, forgetaboutit.

Draining also lets you put the fish habitat in the pond where you want it, relatively easily, at least a LOT easier than if you had to place it via boat.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 236
R
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
R
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 236
Before you rotenone the pond and start over remove any small LMB you catch. Do a search on the forum for relative weight and learn how to determine if the fish you caught is stunted or not. Remove all stunted fish and release all fish with good relative weight. Stock some bluegill. Get some structure in there soon so your forage will have places to hide (this will also concentrate your bass population in certain locations making them easier to catch). Install a feeder to fatten up your bluegill and bass. All of these options are cheaper than wiping the slate clean and starting over, they are also a lot of fun.

If after a year or two you do not see improvement in the RW of your bass then consider starting over. If you do start over you can consider going the smallmouth route (like I did) or HSB. If you do start over be prepared to stock forage and wait a year (or two) to let them multiply before you stock your predators. If you want bigger fish you will need to stock at a lower number which means you won't be catching fish on every cast like you do in a stunted pond.

This past weekend I caught my second bass ever out of my pond, the pond was built 3.5 years ago and for 2.5 years it had no predators. I don't get to fish it daily or anything, probably only 10 times a year, but you get an idea of the kind of fishing action I am experiencing. I do expect that if we get a nice spring my smallies will have a good spawn and the fishing action will change dramatically (it will be time to cull the small ones). I only stocked 11 smallmouth in the pond and there is so much forage for them to eat that they don't appear too interested in my lures but their growth has been awesome.

Last edited by RockvilleMDAngler; 10/08/14 09:52 AM.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 07:28 AM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Donatello - 03/28/24 07:20 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by jludwig - 03/28/24 07:12 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:17 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by esshup - 03/26/24 10:00 PM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5