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I can't believe it, but its true - all my blue gill died. I don't know why. I scooped out over 50 of them \:\( When the ice finally all melted in the middle of March the shore all around the pond was coated with small and medium size fry. The morphed ones then came up, as the ground thawed. This is an awful event. I have had this pond since 01.

Today I saw one Bass, and two Koi's. That is it. We have a creek that feeds the pond - which we use to keep the water level high and to skim the pond junk off of it. So the water comes in and out. We had a bubbler on all winter. There was a hole about the size of a garbage lid that stayed open. Granted, the winter was awful in N. OH., but still not to lose 50 fish. I am now afraid to restock because maybe they died from disease, or perhaps the creek water ??? Or maybe when we breached the bank to do some digging and bank work in early autumn ?? I noticed after we dug about 5 fish died. There looks to be some sort of oil or perhaps, as my son said is pine sap in the water? Does pine sap look like oil??
I am ready to just give up. So much effort, so much work, money and now nothing.
Would appreciate any help.



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Kay,

I'm sorry to hear that. \:\(

What size is the pond?

Did you get a lot of snowfall on the ice this winter? More than usual, and did it stay longer?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Sorry about the loss. Are you sure all the BG are dead. Most times that is not the case as some survive. Take a look at the link below.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92486#Post92486 fish kills

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92438#Post92438 diseases
















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Our pond is not very large probably about 1/4 acre. It is deep about 15' in middle. Yes, there was about 10" of snow on the pond.at times, and the ice was was thick at least 4". But, we have had winters in the past, as bad, and never a fish kill such as this. Now I don't know what to do??


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Yes the snow stayed on the pond all winter finally melting in March. Such a long miserable winter.


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Thanks so much for the links, they are very helpful regarding those awful words "fish kill."


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Sorry about the loss, I know how you feel, we had the same thing happen. we lost most of our bass & many many bluegill. Makes you want to just give up & let nature run the pond! I think our problem was running the aeration too long. with thick ice & a heavy blanket of snow, I turned the system on longer to make a hole in the ice, when the holes opened up it smelled like rotten eggs!

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Its no fun to lose fish, but on the plus side, bluegill breed like rabbits. If you have any left they will probably come back in droves.


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Like Mike said. As long as some are left they will put the population up fast. Why only a little hole in the ice?

Last edited by ken; 04/02/10 10:34 PM.

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I can only imagine how disheartening this is. I gotta believe something happened more than just the bad winter. Four inches of ice and 10 inches of snow is nothing. My pond is about 3/4 acre, on a normal winter I've got 24 inches of ice and we get 4 feet of snow. I will say that I plow about 30% of the pond to let some light in. But I think if I only had 4 inches of ice with a little snow things would work fine without plowing. I wonder if perhaps you aerated too much. I don't think you would want to run an aerator 24/7 in a very small pond or you would make the water too cold. But only some temeperature measurements would tell you for sure if that was causing a problem. I wonder what the oil slick was? Some real experts will have to chime in.


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kay, I lost a whole shipload of BG last Winter. For a month or so after that, I was sure they were all gone. As ewst noted above, that is usually NOT the case (and fortunately it wasn't for me.

Don't lose heart. Try to figure out possible causes for them to die, and eliminate or reduce as many of the risks you identify as possible. Keep looking for survivors - there probably are some BG left, especially if other fish survived.

Lot's of us have been there, and if you stay at it and reduce fish kills risks, the pond and the fish will be better than before.


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Kay:

Where was the aerator located? I ran mine 24/7 this winter and only found 1 floater (BG) this Spring. I have mine set so it's only 4' to 5' below the water surface.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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 Originally Posted By: Kay
Our pond is not very large probably about 1/4 acre. It is deep about 15' in middle. Yes, there was about 10" of snow on the pond.at times, and the ice was was thick at least 4". But, we have had winters in the past, as bad, and never a fish kill such as this. Now I don't know what to do??


Just a few more questions:

How old is the pond? Is there a lot of "muck" on the bottom?

Did it have a high density of fish before the winterkill?

Do you have a lot of macrophytes and or algae especially going into winter?

What size is your compressor -- I assume you are using a bottom diffuser?

Hang in there. I believe we can come up with a plan to prevent this in the future if we have all the details.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Thanks so much for your kind support and info. We had a compressor pump running 24/7 with a good quality bottom diffuser which was set in about 6-7' of water. The hole in the ice was small because, the pump probably wasn't strong enough to make a bigger one. It was so freakin cold here for days on end.
Today my husband installed the new Weathervane pump. Our son rakes the pond ( edges ) and beyond about x3 a year. No we do not have a lot of muck on the bottom, nor rotting weeds. We have a Amur which does a good job on the weeds. I use Curtine in the summer for the algae. There are frogs, bullfrog tadpoles, turtles, snakes,(northern water snakes ) and dragonfly. The eco system was doing great.
My son found another BG this morning which looked sickly. A small one with redness by its gills. I am not sure it is sickly because it was weak to begin with, and now fell victim to a virus. Or it is sickly because of some sort of pollutant in the creek water. We have a shut off in the creek, so when it storms we can shut it down. We also have a filter box in creek and in the box in the pond.
I would like to get some fathead minnows from Jones Fish Farm, next weekend, but not sure if I should do this just yet.

Our pond is 9yrs old, and the joy of my life. Destresses one just to sit by the water, especially after a long work day - in health care

Pullo, I am sorry to hear of your loss too. Did that happen this spring?

Last edited by Kay; 04/03/10 03:56 PM.

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 Originally Posted By: Kay
Thanks so much for your kind support and info. We had a compressor pump running 24/7 with a good quality bottom diffuser which was set in about 6-7' of water. The hole in the ice was small because, the pump probably wasn't strong enough to make a bigger one. It was so freakin cold here for days on end.


Ditto with what Theo said.

It should have made a bigger hole even in the "freakin' cold" weather of Ohio this winter. Now Canada I can understand but not Ohio. I'm thinking it may have been undersized or there was some other problem. If it was undersized or not producing enough flow for some other reason, it may have allowed oxygen robbing muck to build up over the years due to less than adequate destratification. And it may not have exposed enough of your pond water to sufficiently prevent winterkill.

I have a 1/8th hp compressor for winter and it makes an opening 20 by 30 feet in the dead of winter. I'm actually going to move it closer to shore next winter as it stressed my caged fish somewhat. No problems in the pond however.



 Originally Posted By: Kay
Today my husband installed the new Weathervane pump.


Do you mean rotary vane? If it's a 1/4 hp rotary vane it should have plenty of air flow possibly more than you need for a 1/4 acre pond. Not a problem most likely in summer, but I would move your diffuser closer to shore in 3 to 4 feet of water this time before ice up. Or put in an alternate line and diffuser to hook up for winter. If you have sufficient air flow during the other seasons it should not only eliminate an anoxic water layer, but subsequently keep oxygen eating sediments from building up that rob your pond of oxygen under the ice, that produce anoxic gases.

 Originally Posted By: Kay
Our son rakes the pond ( edges ) and beyond about x3 a year. No we do not have a lot of muck on the bottom, nor rotting weeds.


Are you sure you don't have a build up of muck in the deepest water? With a stream running in, you would be amazed at how much silt and sediments you get that builds up on the bottom, and it if your pond truly is 15 feet at 1/4th acre you/ve got a steep sided bowl for a pond. With a steep sided pond all sediment will makes it's way to the deepest water where you can't see it. In some of our lakes here that are very deep (one over 100 feet deep) all the sediments slide down the steep slopes until they encounter a flatter bottom.

 Originally Posted By: Kay
We have a Amur which does a good job on the weeds. I use Curtine in the summer for the algae. There are frogs, bullfrog tadpoles, turtles, snakes,(northern water snakes ) and dragonfly. The eco system was doing great.


The same species exist in shallow ponds and swamps but they can't support larger fish over the winter.


 Originally Posted By: Kay
My son found another BG this morning which looked sickly. A small one with redness by its gills. I am not sure it is sickly because it was weak to begin with, and now fell victim to a virus.


Most likely bacterial, probably initially a water mold that started under the ice. Very common with winter stressed fish. Water molds (fungus) and bacteria are facaltative pathogens that are always present in a pond etc., but only cause problems when the fish is vunerable due to stress. Most of our native fish live below optimum temps in winter which means their immune systems are not running optimally either.

 Originally Posted By: Kay
Or it is sickly because of some sort of pollutant in the creek water. We have a shut off in the creek, so when it storms we can shut it down. We also have a filter box in creek and in the box in the pond.


Some kind of pollutant is possible but 99.9 percent of fill kills are due to oxygen depletion/hydrogen sulfide build up under the ice. Coming out of winter if a fish kill has been observed that jumps to 100 percent! Typically if a water body is literally poisoned the fish die immediately. And poisoning rarely occurs in the winter. Also viruses usually cause quick fish kills and aren't active in really cold water. Bacterial infections are usually fairly slow compared to this taking a few fish at a time. Most likely your morbidity problem will take it's course and be over soon. Most of the fish that will die have probably done by now with most of them having expired under the ice.


I would like to get some fathead minnows from Jones Fish Farm, next weekend, but not sure if I should do this just yet.

It shouldn't be a problem now if your problem was oxygen depletion. Personally I'd wait and take an assessment of the damage first. I'm also not a big proponent of stocking fatheads unless it's a beginning fishery or they are able to reproduce and hide enough to sustain a population.

 Originally Posted By: Kay
Our pond is 9yrs old, and the joy of my life. Destresses one just to sit by the water, especially after a long work day - in health care.

I know the feeling. Been there done that although I've never had a full fledged fish kill. However 9 years is plenty of time to have a pond build up oxygen robbing sendiments to a fish kill.


If it was me I'd wait until sustained temps in the 70's and do some fishing to determine the extent of your losses. If you have a good diffuser/compressor system going I'd run it 24/7 to keep the pond destratified and the oxygen levels healthy from top to bottom to get the benefical bateria working on the sediment.

Then decide from your fish population assessment what you want to do and what your goals are. If you don't have many fish left to speak of, get several dozen fatheads from a local baitstore and stock them. You'll have thousands by the middle of the summer.

Restock gamefish this fall or next spring?

I'm hoping we can get some input from others here especially the aeration experts. Theo has pretty much said the same thing I did but more succinctly.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/03/10 05:30 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Kay, yes this happened this spring, i keep waling the shore but only saw two fish so far.

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I know the feeling to be waiting by the shore, and nothing. Have you had your pond for a long time? Here in Northern OH we broke a record for heat that last couple of days - I think it was 86 yesterday!! My water temp is about 56deg. The water is cloudy with brown algae and I can't see the bottom to well. I put in some Cutrine today, and it should be clearer in a couple of days.

I hope your fish show up, and they are healthy. My son, husband and I are going to do some fishing on Easter Sunday, and hopefully we can catch some BG to put in the pond to see how they do.


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Hi Cecil, Thanks so much for all the info. You offer a wealth of info. I made a mistake regarding the compressor. We NOW have a Rotary Vane 1/4 compressor. The one that was running this past winter was a piston pump - very loud. We kept it in the barn/garage my husband had built in 06. I don't think it did the job from what you wrote.

The creek doesn't flow into our pond. We have pvc pipe that carries the water into the pond. We have a filter on the intake and a filter box in the pond to catch sediment. The pond has shallow sides, and then goes deep, another shelf, and then drops off. I don't know how much sediment is on the bottom.

I did notice BG dying in late autumn, which was unusual. Maybe they were ill and spread some kind of "gilly plague" under the ice!!

Your pond and home are beautiful!! Probably awesome in the summer \:\)

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Kay:

Cecil touched on it briefly. What type of diffuser do you have, an airstone or a membrane type? IIRC, airstones need to be cleaned periodically, and the membranes should be cleaned as well, I've just turned them off and on a couple times and that seems to work (the membrane type). Does your line running to the diffuser have a pressure gauge on it? If so, what's it read?


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We have 4 9" airstones which we clean. Oh no, all this tech stuff. I think it does have a pressure gauge, I don't know what the psi is. Those that would know are repairing a boat motor :). I would go back and look but its a ways back in the yard, and I can smell a skunk FOR SURE.


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I will let you know tomorrow re: the PSI. I DO KNOW this, this pump has more psi than then old for sure. Hopefully, this will help the pond maintain its health. Thanks so much for you info and help.


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 Originally Posted By: Kay


I did notice BG dying in late autumn, which was unusual. Maybe they were ill and spread some kind of "gilly plague" under the ice!!



Kay it sounds to me like you had a fall turnover that brought up anoxic water, which means your previous compressor was not operating up to snuff, as it apparently didn't completely destratify you pond. Now with the rotary vane you should be much better off. You may have actually lost many of your bluegills in the fall and they didn't come up until later. I had that happen with some brook trout once.

And Esshup makes some good points. You need to do some maintenance of your equipment, stones, membranes. Diaphragm pumps also wear out and need parts replaced. Be sure to replace your carbon vanes once a year with your rotary. Not hard to do.

Many people put pressure gauges on their compressors so they can tell if they are losing pressure.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/03/10 09:27 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Kay,
If it helps ya sleep better this weekend, I have been getting phone calls and emails from people everyday since the beginning of march about fish kills. This was definitely the worst year ever in Central Illinois. Here is the kicker though, usually winter fish kills in ponds are catfish and bass, but this year most of them are actually bluegill fish kills and the bluegill are still dying daily from fungus and disease from winter stress.

Your pond will bounce back faster than you can imagine and you can do a few things like transplant some larger sized bluegill to get things rolling even faster.


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Nate,

Do you think mine and other speculations on what happened, and our recommendations are in line with what you think happened, and what you would recommend? You have a lot more experience than I do with these kind of things as that is your living. What do you think?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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What a cute picture!!! Well, yes in a way, it helps make sense of the loss of the BG poplulation. I wonder why the BG took such a hit? The fellow from Jones Fish Farm told me that BG are usually the first to be distressed, as they are more fragile then bass?

The good news is this, my son and I went fishing today, on Easter Sunday, and we caught some big male BG and females. A total of 12 in all. Not bad for about 1/2 hour of fishing!! We put them in our pond. I pray that they will be ok. I hope that there is no disease waiting in the water.

I would think if the water had some sort of noxious waste or such then the frogs would have died too??



Last edited by Kay; 04/04/10 07:52 PM.

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