Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Which fish to save

Hi all, here is my situation, I have two 1/2 acre ponds right beside each other that we are going to connect this summer. One pond is about 8 years old and it has Walleye, Perch, Blue Gill, Pumpkinseed, and tones of little Green Sunfish. The other is only 2 years old and really don't have much in it.

I'm struggling with what if any thing to keep, My first thought is to keep the Walleye (They are hard to find here, I drove 4 hours to get them) the perch and blue gill. I really don't want the greenies.

We originally stocked 40 Walleye, I don't know how many made it but we catch them threw the ice pretty easily and they are long and skinny. The perch are spawning and look really healthy.

How do you think my new 1.3 acre pond would work out if I did this, Keep all Walleye ( guess 20 to 30 ) Keep all perch (could be hundreds) Keep 100 adult bluegill and all the minnows we can (spottail mainly)

Any thoughts are appreciated

I can't give you much help here, except to ask --- where are you planning to keep all these fish while re-doing the pond?

My gut instinct says don't worry about the walleye since they are skinny. Perhaps save the smaller ones which have not been stunted yet. they would also be easier to store while working on the pond.

What are your ultimate goals for the pond? Big walleye? Big Perch? or?

I should of clarified, We are going to start pumping out the older pond next week, then have a bunch of friends over for a fish catching/netting and barbeque party. The fish will be moved over to the new pond (30 to 40 feet). The old pond will then be renovated, we have a milfoil problem and the side of the pond closest to the house is shallow and being overtaken. We can't even swim in it anymore. We will be digging it deeper and steeper, then a long "T" dock will be built that stretches out into deep water.

Our goals are to have a nice looking pond that we can swim in and catch fish out of. I know everybody says that, but we don't need it to look like a pool to swim in. As long as there isn't thick weeds at the end of the dock we are good. As for fish we have young relatives that come over and just want to get a bite so bluegill are perfect. For my self I mainly fish it in the winter so all species need to bite under ice.

I don't want bass because they don't often bite threw the ice and I chase them all summer so I want something different at home.

Well, it seems that you are on the right track for having a good BG pond so long as you keep your walleye. Good BG ponds rely on an overpopulated/stunted predator species, typically bass, but I would assume walleye would work too. Take out all the predators that are big enough to eat sizable BG while maintaining a lager population of smaller predators to keep the BG from overpopulating and stunting also. I don't know a thing about walleye. If they don't reproduce in ponds, you may have to ladder stock them to keep their numbers up high enough to hammer the BG YOY as you remove the larger ones. There may be another more available species you could use for your predators up north, but I can't comment on that. LMB would certainly be a good tool for your BG pond along with the walleye, but skinny predator fish may be all you get either way.

As far as I can tell my Walleye have never spawned. Everyone I catch is 14 to 15 inches and skinny.

That was my thought too, If I keep the Walleye and perch in a newly renovated pond with little vegetation any Bluegill spawn that happens should get hammered.

I do hand feed when ever the pond is flat in the evening, I would guess 3 to 4 times a week.

I do have the ability to put in thousands of Emerald Shiners in the fall if that will help them get through the winter in a newly renovated pond.

That is really my main concern, how will my fish do this winter if they are put in a newly renovated pond. And what effect will it have on them going forward.

Well I'll say this.

1. Your fish are used to that type of weather so making the pond bigger should not effect how the fish do this winter. They should do better I would think.

2. Walleye from my experience don't really get bigger until they hit about 20 inches. They remind me a lot of Northern Pike. Skinny, skinny until they hit a certain length then they start to fill out. 14 and 15 inch Walleye are gonna be skinny all day every day...IMO.

RC

You haven't said the condition of the current BG? Walleye seem skinny and YP and doing good, but what about the BG? The reason why I bring this up is, will your walleye keep them under control. It will be interesting to see what Bill Cody would have to say about this. It seems like the walleye are going to prefer the YP first, then they will work on the BG if forced. You says the YP are in good shape, so it seems like the walleye are working on them as expected, but what about those BG?

Are SMB a possibility where you are?

My opinion and experiences with walleye are to stock the perch, walleye and shiners in the new larger pond. Leave out the BG as the walleye will not control their numbers. Even some smallmouth bass added will not adequately control the BG. The walleye and larger perch will eat some yearling BG during winter but not enough to control their numbers. the pond I think will become overrun in time with BG even if you have 100 walleye per acre ladder stocked. The walleye will primarily prefer small perch and shiners as main forage items.

Keep the BG and GSF in the smaller ponds and you may eventually need to add LMB to grow bigger BG for harvest.

I would say they are also doing well, they look healthy and plump. I don't have any monsters but an 8 inch gill is fun for a little guy to reel in. I could easily get smallmouth I just don't want too. I fish about a dozen tournaments a year from Lake St Clair to the Thousand Islands and everywhere in between and they are mostly smallmouth.

Fishing in this pond for me is mainly a winter thing, We set up the portable hut, shovel off the ice and have a fun day. I sit in the hut with an ice fishing rod and a beer while the kids and there friends skate.

This is the first year that there seems to be a lot of YOY BG and Greenies , I think there is two things that could contribute to this. One my milfoil is really taking off and this is the first spring that I missed the Shiner run and didn't put in a cooler full of adult Emeralds. I really believe they gobble up the newly hatched fry.

I have found that having ice skating on the pond while some try to fish deters the fish from biting well, although the beer tastes the same either way.

LOL this is true Bill, Do you think the timeline that I had in the first pond, this being the eighth year and just now seeing sings of a lot of small bluegill and green sunnies is about right? Or do you think I should of seen this earlier? I'm just wondering if the huge influx of Emeralds each spring had an effect. I would guess I put in about 10,000 each spring

Theoretically, stocking some male only LMB would introduce predators with the perfect gape to focus upon 3-5" BG and GSF and help keep populations managed...they will top out at 2-3# and larger BG should be safe. However, your YP will take a hit and if supplementally stocking WE you'd want to select the largest fish possible to avoid predation from the LMB. I've considered employing this male LMB method over the years but eventually got my BG population managed through other avenues.

This is a tough decision the young family members that come over to fish love the gills because they are easy to catch but I don't want bass. Seems I'm backed into a corner here.

Well, you could always keep the two nond scenario you have. Renovate the one that is in bad shape but not connect it to the other. One for walleye and the other for BG.

That is probably what I would do but my wife who puts up with me spending waaaaaay to much money on these ponds said she would love it if we could sit on the deck and look straight down 1 long pond instead of having that grass patch in between. Guess what's happening?

Here is an out there idea that anyone around the great lakes may comment on.

I spend a lot of time on Erie and have learned 2 things for sure
1 - Perch, Bass and Walleye are all Using the Goby as a big part of there diet. And Gobys will surround a bass bed and if that Male is pulled off for even a few second they will flood the bed and eat the eggs.

SOOOOO If I want Walleye, Perch and Bluegill in the same pond, with the Buegill making the same style bed as a bass is the goby not the perfect addition.

Goby eats bluegill eggs and Walleye and Perch eat Goby.

WW,
I'm all in on experimenting with the goby. Of course once they are loose in the great lakes who knows if they do more harm or more good. But in the confines of your pond (assuming you can confine them there) they would be an interesting addition both to see if they help balance the pond or if their young will provide forage opportunities.

I can't believe how much the bass have adapted to eating them. I know when we fish the rivers that feed into lake Michigan, if we catch small gobies and use them as bait you have never seen such a magnet for big bass! Even better than using a live blue gill.

Of course with goby you are also accepting all the unknowns that come with them as we really don't have a good grasp on their life cycle, eating habits, any parasites they might bring with them etc.

Not just bass, when my freezer gets low I go get a boat full of Perch and Walleye out of Erie and Gobys are almost the only thing in there stomachs.

Keeping them contained is not a real problem I live right in the middle of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario (15 min from each) every single stream, creek, river, drains into one of them and is full of Gobys.

I have a dug pond 4 mile from the nearest body of water so they can't go anywhere anyway but if they could they would only be rejoining there friends.

I agree. In the north when we ice fish for big walleye and speckle trout we will snowmobile in and drill the holes. Mush up a few minnows dump down the hole. Then cover the hole with pine bows then cover with snow. The hole will not freeze over.

Next day snowmobile to the lake but do not drive onto the lake. Walk out to your holes un cover and start fishing. Big fish in shallow water.

Beer still tastes the same too.

Try experimenting with the gobys and see where it leads the fishery. My main concern is keeping enough gobys in the pond to eat adequate amounts of BG eggs. Conditions would have to be very correct on several areas both of BG, goby, habitat and predator balance. The "stars" would have to align. The fish do not always follow theory.

We need a thread on Gobies. What is the easiest way to catch them? can you net them in the shallows like minnows? I don't suspect they would readily go in a trap? Just catch them one at a time with hook and worm?

My experience is that they are usually near rock so a net might be tough. small hook and a piece of worm will work for sure but that is slow going. I bet a minnow trap set right beside a rocky area would work but have never tried. I might experiment this weekend.

I see some controversy on Gobies. Illegal to be caught with one in your possession live (assume that means away from the body of water where you just caught it) or to transport it. Thus technically the CO office sees you with a live goby on your hook and you fishing with it you are in trouble, or you can say you just caught it?

They are silent on the dead goby issue, or using dead ones as bait. I've read CO officers threatening to ticket anyone with a goby in their possession dead or alive, but that is a gray area.

Certainly I wouldn't want to get caught transporting them even if it is legal to have them in your local pond.

Source:

link to source:

Here was a ask the DNR question.


From Ask the DNR:

QUESTION 07/08/2008 01:50 PM
Goby... The law is very clear that "Live" goby can not be used as bait. What is the "LAW" on using dead ones as bait ???

ANSWER: (Lynne Thoma) 07/09/2008 09:47 AM
You are correct: the law is clear that persons shall not use "Live" gobies for bait. Unfortunately, the language is silent on the use of dead gobies for bait. So, technically, you can use dead gobies.

We already have the restriction in the Fishing Guide about the use of live gobies. It's the very first thing listed under the Unlawful section on page 7. We remain silent on the use of dead gobies because we really don't want to encourage the use of gobies for bait--this would only encourage anglers to move them around the state, which is something we really want to avoid as it is important to keep them out of the inland lakes.
-----------------
Followup question: 07/09/2008 10:59 AM The state might address this as more and more are using them for cut-bait ect. If was a total ban on using them as bait "dead,live,parts" would help prevent any more contamination.

Follow up answer (Lynne Thoma) 07/10/2008 02:14 PM
Using the same logic, a complete ban on their possession (dead or alive) is unnecessary. We're not concerned about the use of dead gobies as bait, especially if they are used in the same waters where they were caught. Our concern is the movement of live gobies to waters that currently do not have them, thus the reason for the prohibition on live gobies.

I imagine every state has different laws and Canada probably different yet. And then each CO officer can apply the law as he sees the situation unfold.

It seems if you net them out of the water and use them for bait in the same body of water that should be OK, but would using a live goby for bait be different from the law standpoint even if it is in the same body of water....

How confusing..

It is the same here, and believe me I would never move these things outside our area. the few times a year that I go north to where they haven't gotten to yet I make sure to do a good clean on my live well and hoses before I go. Having said that the Niagara Peninsula is completely infested and a personal pond is the only water that you might not find them in. Actually with the number of ducks geese and Blue Herons we have I will be surprised if they don't end up getting in anyway.