Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain LMB - how much do they eat and/or how quickly?

I'm new in this management stuff and ponds. I'm looking at providing forage fish in the Bluegill variety or another feeder fish. How much does a 12" to 15" LMB eat? If I stock 75 to 100 BG in a half acre pond with three of the aforementioned LMB, how long will they last? Will the BG, 3.5" to 4.5" in size, get a foothold in the pond before they become lunch? My additional inventory of fish are lots of smaller 4" to 8" LMB plus at least a dozen 12" to 15" catfish. If the LMB are going to eat all of the BG in the first day, week or month, would I be advised to also stock 100 or so feeder gold fish so that the BG might live long enough to produce their own fry? I hate the thought of feeding the LMB $400 in BG when I can feed them $30 in gold fish instead. How does this forage system work and how much do LMB eat. The last time I saw one of the big (in my pond) LMB catch something, it was a three inch goldfish. After gulping it down, the LMB continued to look for another meal. I know what it is like to have a Sushi habit, but even I don't eat $400 a month worth of fish. I certainly do not want to feed my LMB that much in BG a month. What do you recommend?

Provide some cover for your BG and they will flourish in no time at all.. Also you could cage raise the BG's fr the rest of the summer then they'll definately make it.. Don't waste your time with goldfish..

$400 for 75-100 BG? We source them here in NE for $.25/ea up to 4". Or, a guy can source as many as he wants from local farm ponds. I give away probably 2,000 BG annually to PB friends. Maybe I'm missing something on your bg cost?

I would stock 500-750 BG as large as possible in your half acre bow and provide dense shallow water habitat to help prevent LMB predation. Place dense cover [cedar trees, ect] in 3-6' depths around the pond [around 20% coverage]. There are plenty of hatcheries who can ship you BG for much cheaper than the price you are intimating. If you want to drive up to NE you can seine as many as you please.

If you can't source that many BG then think about adult BG. 50-75 6-8" fish would be much safer than 3-4"ers from predation and might pull off a spawn yet this year.

I've been quoted $2.75 per BG for 3.5" to 4.5" plus $125 delivery from one source. The second source is $3.75 per BG 4" to 6", but $2.50 per mile one-way which would add $450 to the cost. So if there are other alternatives, please let me ASAP. I need to make a decision the beginning of this week if I'm to get in on the first source's trip into Northern Nevada. There are no in state sources for BG, LMB, CC or mosquito fish in Nevada.

Hartleys in ks ships fish. Check the resource guide and ask them about shipping bg. Even with freight you should save a ton of money. Not sure how conducive the weather is for fish/air freight right now, though.

http://www.suttlefish.com/pricelist.html


Compare our prices on the internet. Our prices are competitive !
Delivery charges depends on location - contact us to discuss. Prices subject to change.

Coppernose & Native or Common BREAM (BLUEGILL)
80% 20% ratio with coppernose & shellcracker
1000 or less $25.00 PER 100
1000-5000 $200.00 PER 1000
Add 6.50 per small box (up to 500 bream) if shipping by fedex.
Add 10.00 per large box (up to 1000 bream) if shipping by fedex.
Plus FedEx charges or delivery charges.
We have a 14x14x10 box for you to pick up fish, Add 4.00 for this box.


Three to Five inch bluegill - delivery only - large sizes cannot be shipped
Less than 1,000 - 45 cents each
Over 1,000 - 41 cents each
If you have questions, call us 601-425-4480


Problem solved?

Suttle's often sells out of fish (BG/CNBG)on large contracts. They also don't like to get fish up in hot weather. You would have to talk to them. Good people and I have seen their operation and fish. Like with all hatcheries be cautious.

Good feedback, Eric. Just from what I read on their website they seem reasonable pricewise and the shipping option is a great tool for many, like DLJacob.

Problem not solved.

Nevada requires a current disease inspection report. So the referral is no good. I'm back to expensive BG or cheap feeder goldfish. Besides Suttle says the current temperatures won't allow for FedEx shipping of fish. I'm back to physical delivery services from disease free certified fish suppliers.

Something Dan Suttle said was that you don't mix BG hybrids, coppernose and native BG. I'm not sure what that means. Do they compete with each other? Fight each other like "dog aggressive" type animals?

So I'm back to the original question. How much or how often do LMB eat?

It is not the best practice to put both HBG and BG (BG or CNBG)in the same pond. It can be overcome with time. It is a genetics matter. In addition HBG do not produce enough offspring to sustain a LMB population. There is no problem having BG and CNBG in the same pond.

Sorry the recommendation was "no good" and didn't solve your problems. We're trying to help, here.

Does the NV DNR stock ponds? Seems like a viable option. I only see a few hatcheries in NV when I googled...which makes sense I guess considering most of NV is pretty arid.

You'd benefit from researching the vast amount of information available on the forum and all over the web regarding LMB forage habits/tendencies. Suffice it to say they are in predation mode frequently and will eat as much as possible. In other words they "eat a lot and very often" items typically up to 1/3 their body length, but will go to 1/2 if necessary.

The goal here is not to feed your LMB with the forage stocking, it's to develop a forage base that is self sustaining. That's why you need to order a qty sufficient to sacrafice a portion to the existing LMB population but have enough to survive to spawn and establish a population. You can do this one of two ways: Stock larger adult fish or go with higher qtys to ensure survival.

Are there any ponds around where you live you can catch BG and stock?

Teehjaeh57, I was bummed that Dan couldn't supply me. I liked his prices too.

Dan didn't say if he did or did not have current inspection reports, just that I should look at NDOW approved suppliers. I assume he was not able to provide them with such an inspection report. Or he just doesn't ship fish across the country right now. In either case, I'm back to $400 for 100 BG in the 3.5" to 4.5" size range. Can they last long enough to be able to produce fry for future LMB meals? Or should I supplement with cheap goldfish to run interference for the BG?

Or do I need many hundreds more BG for this size pond and my 12" to 15" LMB population?

How many LMB present now? I hate to see you feed GF now and have some escape predation and get huge and cause problems down the road. I also can't believe they are selling BG for that price, it's borderline criminal. They are apparently very aware of their market's willingness to pay.

Depending on how many LMB you have will go a way to determining how many BG you need to stock. As stated earlier, stocking recommendations are 750-1,250 BG/acre in LMB fishery.

You should call the state and see if they can help you source fish. Sometimes that's a good option - in your case it certainly might be.
Where I live I want minimal state involvement in my projects, but I also raise my own fish, can source for free most the time, or can buy very cheaply. Your case is very different, the state might be very helpful.

I've seen three 12" to 15" LMB. I would guess that I have at least 100 size 4" to 8" LMB. It could be a few hundred of the smaller LMB, since I can't be around the entire pond to count. I've stocked about 1,000 mosquito fish a month or so ago. Regarding the number of catfish, I figure I've seen at least a dozen and maybe up to eighteen 12" to 15" size before they took to hiding with the temperatures rising. My pond is basically two ponds connected by a shallow channel. Right now the new pond addition is un-viewable due to algae bloom or suspended dirt and dust. I have next to zero visibility right now. The original pond has good visibility of about two feet. But I've got a lot of coontail and that makes it difficult to see anything unless the fish are in a clearing area around the perimeter of the pond. I have a third unidentified fish species that are in the 4" to 8" size range. The LMB don't seem to be interested in them. The only thing I've seen my larger LMB eat is a gold fish that migrated out of my stream into the pond. I have assumed that the LMB are eating their own, due to no forage fish unless they are eating small catfish. The pond/s are aerated and the new pond addition has a waterfall feature that flows from 80 gpm to 160 gpm depending on my pump settings. That helps with some aeration and water movement. I don't plan to use feeders unless I decide to add Koi to the mix. That has not been recommended due to concern over making the ponds muddy or cloudy. I'm still sitting on the fence regarding that choice however. There are an awful lot of beautiful Koi fish out there.

Nevada Dept. of Wildlife has given me a listing of fisheries to contact. There are only three that offer Bluegill or similar forage fish. Two of them are the identified sources number 1 and 2 above. I have not heard back from source number 3 yet. Maybe their prices will be closer to other distant suppliers.

Rule of thumb is that one LMB will need to eat 10# of forage fish to gain one pound in weight. As for the goldfish, I wouldn't put them in my pond, nor recommend them to any client for their ponds.

I would just stock as many largest size BG you can afford, create shallow dense cover for them [the coontail will help - until winter at least], and know you'll have some that survive and reproduce. LMB are not ideal for bows that size, but they are there to stay. Your LMB are eating their own, the gambusia, the cc, the goldfish, and anything else they can find right now. You should probably make a strong effort to remove some LMB as 100 in a half acre pond is in my opinion about 50-75 too many.

How many fish will a 12" to 15" LMB eat in a day? Are they picky eaters? i.e. will they skip eating their own if something else might be available to eat though not presently in front of them? Will they wait until they are starving before eating another LMB?

They will eat LMB just as fast as a BG if not faster due to the fusiform shape of LMB they are easier to eat up to a bigger size..

PS- My first post on this thread is still sound advice, except for your stocking cost.. Re-read it

As many fish as it takes to fill their belly. If all they have to eat is larger fish, then one might do, and one fish might take them a couple of days to digest. If all they have to eat is small fish, then that's what they will eat and they will eat more. Sure they have preferences, and that's been discussed before. Pond fish are cold blooded. Warm water fish eat/digest more in warmer water than colder water.

They will eat whatever fits in their mouth and down their gullet.

Get a blackboard and some chalk. Write "it depends" 100 times. There are really very few hard and fast rules (actually, there might not be any). Fish will do whatever they need to do to survive, and they do not have the ethics or morals that most of us humans have in regards to what we will or will not eat.

Another option to look into is sectioning off a pen of sorts.I know a forum member had a post where he used a corner of his pond sectioned off.So he could raise some fish out of reach from his lmb that seemed successful.

I would never pay 400$ for 100 BG,if it was me I'd be out when I had time with a fishing pole and a bobber filling a bucket or two,but that's me and again I have good hatcheries close at hand

There are many ways to skin a cat fish on here,maybe look into transporting them yourself?I think a bilge pump and a old cooler would be a lot less then what they want to charge you.Again quite a few posts on this setup and subject too.