Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain hypothetical southern pond

I've been doing a lot of research on creating the forage base in your pond before your bass arrive.

I believe that I want to use these species in my pond. How would you stock them?

Information:
pond (somewhere in warm fish territory)
about 20 acres in size
plenty of spawning area and cover for forage species and bass
min depth: 2'
max depth: 16'

food chain:
fathead minnows
bluntnose minnows
golden shiners
threadfin shad
gizzard shad
lake chub suckers
grass shrimp
crayfish
redear sunfish
coppernose bluegill
florida strain largemouth bass

Tilapia will be raised indoors over the winter in tanks.

Approximately 10 male and 20 female Tilapia adults will be stocked per acre every spring. (fish exceeding one pound in size).

I am hoping that proper fertilization, and slot limit management will leave me with a pond that will produce large numbers of high quality (5+ pounds) largemouth for years to come.

If you can think of any forage species that I missed please let me know. Also, if you have any stocking advice that would be appreciated as well.

Hey bugs, welcome to the forum...

I am assuming since you are on NJ, this pond has yet to be constructed? Are you retiring and moving south soon?

You would definitely be doing the right thing by stocking and establishing a good forage base first before you stock your bass. The better shape your forage base is in when you stock the bass, the better growth rates you are going to get on your bass. Once you get everything going a good bass harvest plan will help you keep your bass numbers in check.

Out of your list, typically, the only thing you will want to wait to stock would be the gizzard shad. Despite some peoples thoughts about gizzards, they are a great forage species for raising trophy bass when stocked properly. If you do not have enough larger bass in the pond before you stock the gizzards, the gizzards can stockpile at a size too large for your bass to eat and take up a lot of biomass in the pond. So, wait until year 2 or 3 to stock the gizzards, or until you have enough larger bass in the pond.

Threadfins are sensitive to colder water temperatures. So, depending on where the pond is, you could have some issues with winter kills. Stock a couple of loads in the spring before they spawn, and you should get good stock of them going.

Depending on your timeline, you can stock all of those listed forage species in the spring or fall (minus shad), and let everything get cranking. Then the following spring to stock the threadfins, then stock your fingerling bass in late spring/early summer.

I agree with AU. You did not address a very key point in your list. Using feed trained LMB and supp feeding. That takes a lot of pressure off the forage base.

With a goal of big LMB you should wait on stocking GShad until 20-25% of your LMB biomass is over 18 inches.

I didn't really plan on feeding the fish. I planned on fertilizing the water to keep the smallest end of the food chain kicking, but hadn't planned on feeding anything pellets.

I understand the stocking philosophy on Gizzard shad. I would wait until I had bass over 16" before I started stocking gizzards. I can see how a pond full of 18" shad could be a bad thing LOL.

I feel like I will probably stock fatheads, bluntnose, golden shiners, lake chub suckers, grass shrimp, and crayfish the first year. I will probably leave that set for a year before I add anything else.

After that I will probably add gizzards, red ears, and coppernose in the fall and then stock florida largemouth in the spring.

I have given a lot of thought to stocking adult tilapia every spring as supplemental forage. I can grow a couple hundred tilapia indoors and move them out to the pond in the spring when the water temperature is suitable.

I feel like they will probably add to the food base and be great forage.

Are there any species that I have missed that I should consider?

I am most likely going to be in Georgia. I have been looking at buying land in a lot of places and my dollar goes pretty far in Georgia. LOL.

I would not add GShad until you have a large % of your LMB over 18 inches and the # of your small < 12 inch LMB under control (not overpopulated). That will be year 2 or 3 after stocking 2 in LMB.

I understand that you don't want to add Gizzard Shad or Tilapia to your pond until you have Largemouth that can consume them. I'm not one of those antsy people that need to get fish in the water just for the sake of getting them in the water.

Are there any good forage species that I have missed?

Are there any unusual species that would do well? Insects? Snails? Invertebrates? Mollusks? Anything? I want to have the forage base be as diverse as possible and I want to make sure that I get all of the forage in before the bass (for the most part) so that they can establish a population.

You got the species down but as important are the numbers. Things might change based on pond size also. Also critical is proper design of the pond and if here in GA then likely need to lime heavily. Also be aware illegal to stock tiliapia in GA.

I'm looking for land as well for big lake and second office. Permitting for that size lake can be a pain. Good luck.

Illegal to stock tilapia in Georgia? Hmm. Well, Georgia is out. Is there a list of states that I can find someplace where tilapia ARE legal?

Every state around us legal with permit, 5 of em, go figure. Weird fish don't know state lines as far as I know. Headed to GA AFS conference where IM now on the board I will see if we can get that law changed for you. Tell them the state losing a land sale.

Land is so cheap there compared to New Jersey its not even funny. I could sell my place in New Jersey, 2 acres, 4br house, etc and use the money to buy 100 acres in Georgia LOL.

I doubt that they would care about losing a land sale.

I just don't see the point of not allowing tilapia to be stocked in a private pond. Its not like the tilapia could ever walk across land and get into another body of water from a pond/lake I would build.

We have plenty of land for sale here in SC, and we can stock you up with tilapia.

All it takes is one hurricane and the 15" it could drop in rain and you'd be amazed at where fish from one private pond can end up! All those lovely Asian carp now screwing up the Mississippi River drainage all started out in a just a few private ponds, until heavy rains flooded them out...

However, GA is way too far north for tilapia to consistently survive winters, so other than them surviving in warm water refuges(power plant outflows, etc) I don't see a major issue. Even VA bans tilapia, so it isn't just GA.

Miss still requires a permit which I have never know the agency to grant. Its not like our rivers don't cross state/watershed lines. In 90% + of the state they will winter kill but along the coast they may be (have)overwintered. That is the source of the permit/ban. In a big rain event some that were being commercially raised got loose in the coastal waters.

Wade, I'm not going to lie. I do enjoy fishing for some giant catfish too and South Carolina is just about as good a place as any to catch 40+ pound cats on a regular basis.

I will look into it for certain.

Now that I have learned the wonders of tilapia I couldn't really imagine stocking a bass pond without them.

Our bass ponds get along just fine without tilapia. It just takes more BG.

Gizzard shad grow big bass... And you can stock gizzard shad in any state in the southeast. They just have to be stocked in the correct manner.

I think that is what I am going to go with is Gizzard Shad. There are waaaaay too many restrictions on tilapia. While they would be nice to have I guess that they are not necessary. They're just nice because you don't have to worry about overpopulation of large tilapia like you might with Gizzards.

It looks like this will be the food chain

bluntnose minnows
golden shiners
lake chub suckers
grass shrimp
crayfish
threadfin shad
gizzard shad
coppernose bluegill
florida largemouth bass

I did away with the idea of fathead minnows and redear sunfish because I didn't feel that they were necessary. They have a good probability of ending up extinct pretty quickly anyway.

Now I just have to figure out how to make spawning areas and cover for my forage species so that they don't end up extinct.

RES (redear sunfish) prevent parasites in your other fish. FHM (fathead minnows) are used for that very purpose. They help jump start your predator fish.

In a pond that is literally FULL of bluntnose minnows, golden shiners, grass shrimp, and crayfish. do you think that the fatheads are a necessity to jumpstart anything? Not trying to be a know it all, because I certainly don't, just trying to learn what I can.

Also, I haven't ruled out redear sunfish. The main concern that I have with them is A) will they find enough food to eat in a new pond that hasn't had time to develop a population of snails? and B) will they interbreed with the coppernose bluegill and make any kind of undesirable hybrid?

I had planned on introducing the bluntnose minnows, golden shiners, lake chub suckers, grass shrimp, and crayfish a full year before I put any kind of predator fish into the pond. So, if all goes well the pond should literally be boiling with forage by the time the first bass touches the water.

I planned on adding the coppernose bluegill, redear sunfish, and threadfin shad in the fall of the second year, and putting the florida largemouth in that following spring.

Following advice I got here I would wait until there were a lot of 18+ inch bass before stocking the gizzard shad.

I truly want a high quality bass fishery. I don't need 20 pounders, but it would be nice to have 10 pounders be a fairly common occurrence, five pounders being a daily phenomenon, and the occasional behemoth pulled from the water.

I don't mind culling large numbers of bass from the pond every year. I have more than enough friends that enjoy a fish fry. I just want to build a sustainable food chain that will feed all of the bass from the smallest of the small to the biggest of the big as long as I keep the bass population in check.

Keeping the bass numbers in check will be your biggest challenge. In doing so, you are going to make a lot of hook shy big bass. It is a catch 22... Something small bodies of water have a hard time overcoming.

If you stock the species listed above, FHM aren't a necessity, but they do fill a slightly different niche. If you are giving your forage fish a full year to grow/spawn before adding predators, just a couple pounds of FHM will turn into thousands and thousands of fish in that time period, especially if the right spawning structure is present for them.

I would highly recommend RES. There is a slight chance they will hybridize with your BG, however their hybrid is not undesireable, if anything most people like the hybrid. It will be rare and low in frequency. The benefits of adding them would far outweigh any undesirables. I honestly cannot think of any undesirables in stocking them... And don't worry, they will find plenty of food to eat, even in a newly built pond. RES, don't just eat snails.

What would be the different niche that fatheads fill? I know that they are a little slower than the bluntnose so they are more easily captured and eaten by young bass. Are there any other differences?

I had planned on using cinder blocks placed about one per square yard in about 18" of water. The substrate will be sand and gravel and I am hoping establish a fair amount of vegetation for them to hide in. I can dedicate however much space is necessary for them to reproduce. I thought that the golden shiners could use the same vegetation as a place to spawn as well.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Thank you for all of the help so far. I know that with the right information my fishery can be a success the first time around.

Slightly different feeding habits and habitat preferences.

If you are placing spawning structure for FHM and bluntnose, 12" or less of water is ideal from my experience. Anything deeper and they will be eaten by predators.

Very good information. Then I will figure out exactly how shallow I can go and still keep the cinder blocks under the water level.

Can you recommend any other species of minnows, shiners, chubs, etc that could be beneficial?

Thank you.

If you're trying to grow big LMB, having a diverse number of small sized species of minnows isn't as important as other goals. There really aren't a lot of options with LMB because they are just so effective a predator. In a southern pond, threadfin shad, BG, RES, GSH and when your bass get bigger gizzard shad are your major key important species. Most people lime trophy bass ponds bringing the pH level up. I don't believe LCS will do well in hard higher pH waters. They tend to prefer soft acidic waters. So you can try stocking them, but they most likely will not do well. In all likelihood, the bluntnose minnows will be all eaten within a couple years after the bass begin reproducing. There are a few obscure sunfish species and suckers that may be good forage, but it would be extremely experimental at best. Establishing a good population of BG/RES along with threadfin shad is key. Keeping them reproducing through a feeding and/or fertilization program is important for continued success. Then adding gizzard shad will result in your best bang for the buck. FHM stocked in the very beginning will get your bass off to a fast start, that is about all they are good for. If you build your pond in a state that allows tilapia, then obviously they can be used to take pressure of of your sunfish.