But I am taking it a step further and going with Gambusia also. I have had my own experiment with fhm, shiners and gambusia. I bought pinks or rosy reds for easier identification. The pink fhm school, and at a different depth than the gambusia. Way different. Sometimes the shiners intermingled with them, but only if they are about the same size. And he is really negative on bg/sf. I have to have at least res at first. They are going to be crackin shells on the bottom, not eating all the minnows.
So I'm starting with 400 golden shiners, no fry, all breeding size. Tried Anderson's but they are banned from California. And 100 2-3 res. They can't eat those big shiners. In two weeks I am going with 1,000 fhm and 1,000 gambusia, maybe 200 2-3 bg. No LMB, no cc, no predators. I think this is a super baitfish cocktail. The pond is about an acre and empty except for countless crawdads. I am going to try to hold out an entire year with no lmb. Do you think this is taking it too far?
Goals are like most the ponds I manage. Action packed fishing. Lots of catchable fish, no skinnies. Just trying a different approach here.
My experience with gambusia has always been positive. And my experiments confirm this. They just don't live where any other species do. They hug the shore and the surface. They are prolific live bearers. The fry provide forage for everything. They don't eat other fishes eggs. They are survivors. After a few years my fhm may be depleted. After a few more the shiners. The gambusia, will still be there. Yhis pond is a prime habitat for mosquitos. Not with them in there. They never grow too large not to be forage.
Downside, they are mean as hell. Have to be in order to survive. They will eat up other little just hatched fishes. Too bad. Should have kept out of their way. That is why they manage to stick around. It is very easy to plant more fish in that they cannot eat.
When I do drop in my fla lmb strain, they will have so much forage they should be immediate fat pigs. Both the bg and res should be dropping babies as well by then. Also gives me a chance to see if this pond can carry a large amount of fish. If not, I lost some bait and a few hundred brim. The population will flip, from no predators to almost exclusive predators. I'm hoping that takes 3-5 years. In my second year if I plant big enough lmb, I should have loads of 3 lb. That is my ultimate goal. And some catchable bg/res.
Phase #1 complete. Getting tougher and tougher to get shiners of any quality here. These were huge and only 3 duds out of 400. Just under Jumbo size, a lot of 5 inchers. The res were dinks mostly around 3. They too are getting very tough to get. Phase 2 in a couple of weeks the rest of the cocktail. FHM or tuffies. Which actually should be named wimpies or weakies. Especially compared to gambusia. I know they will be the first species to vanish. Also the gambusia, 1,000 each and 200-300 3" bg, native. No cbg or hydrids. No gsf. This cocktail then gets a full year to blend. Might add another 200-300 bg in Summer. I don't think any of the res/bg will breed this season. However all of the minnows should. I'm thinking 8-13" fla lmb Spring of 2011. I have to selective harvest many out, and this is thier destination, they already have a reservation for this pond. Might toss in a few 2-3 lb albino cc's for fun.
OK, all done for Spring 2010. 1000 adult FHM. 600 bg 2-4", 175 more RES, 2-3". One pink CC 3 lbs. Gambusia already found thier way in. Just loaded up from vector control plants in ditches. One dip net survey pulled in 20, with 10 loaded up pregnant females. I estimate over 1,000 of those already or soon.
So totals 400 GS, very large, just under jumbo 1,000 FHM adults. No pinkies. over 1,000 Gambusia 275 RES 600 bg 1 cc
Gravel beds to be installed before pond is full and 6 pallets to be sunk. I figure almost everything will have bred by next Spring except RES. Multiple hatches of all minnows. About 500 crawdads when rice fields drain in Fall. Cocktail is now mixed, just going to let it blend for one year.
Get native Sailfin Mollies. They are almost like Gambusias but Mollies get up to 6" and eat mosquito larvae AND plant matter. They will hang near the shore about 1ft or less of water and produce more young than Gambusias. The Mollies also live in North Carolina and maybe a even Maryland/Virginia. So i'm pretty sure they could live in Cali. Try www.aquabid.com and go to the native section. or try here: http://www.aquaculturestore.com/
just my .02 thats what I'm doing when I stock my pond. Should be a "food ladder" for your predator species. Start small and get bigger and bigger.
OK, all done for Spring 2010. 1000 adult FHM. 600 bg 2-4", 175 more RES, 2-3". One pink CC 3 lbs. Gambusia already found thier way in. Just loaded up from vector control plants in ditches. One dip net survey pulled in 20, with 10 loaded up pregnant females. I estimate over 1,000 of those already or soon.
So totals 400 GS, very large, just under jumbo 1,000 FHM adults. No pinkies. over 1,000 Gambusia 275 RES 600 bg 1 cc
Gravel beds to be installed before pond is full and 6 pallets to be sunk. I figure almost everything will have bred by next Spring except RES. Multiple hatches of all minnows. About 500 crawdads when rice fields drain in Fall. Cocktail is now mixed, just going to let it blend for one year.
Dang, nice work PF. I am digging this combo stocking approach. I hope you document it closely so we can all benefit from your experience.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
Get native Sailfin Mollies. They are almost like Gambusias but Mollies get up to 6" and eat mosquito larvae AND plant matter. They will hang near the shore about 1ft or less of water and produce more young than Gambusias. The Mollies also live in North Carolina and maybe a even Maryland/Virginia. So i'm pretty sure they could live in Cali. Try www.aquabid.com and go to the native section. or try here: http://www.aquaculturestore.com/
just my .02 thats what I'm doing when I stock my pond. Should be a "food ladder" for your predator species. Start small and get bigger and bigger.
Hey Fishkeeper1
Tell us more about Sailfin Mollies. They sound fecund, forage size up to 6" is also appealing. What are it's water temp limitations? Wonder if NE would host a climate suitable?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
SAILFIN MOLLY Order - Cyprinodontiformes Family - Poeciliidae Genus - Poecilia Species - latipinna
Geographical Distribution The sailfin molly is found in fresh, brackish, and coastal salt water in coastal lowland habitats from North Carolina to Texas and the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. Prefering marshes, lowland streams, swamps, and estuaries, the sailfin molly is very common in peninsular Florida. Non-indigenous populations are established in the western U.S. and in Hawaii. Sailfin mollies introduced to California have caused a decline in populations of the federally endangered desert pupfish (Cyprinodon macularius).
Habitat Sailfin mollies are most commonly observed in the shallow surface waters along the edges of marshes, lowland streams, ponds, swamps, estuaries and even ephemeral water bodies such as roadside ditches. Small to large aggregations of the species are most commonly found under floating vegetation or near structures in the water, minimizing their chances of being observed by potential predators. The sailfin molly is a tolerant species. By exploiting the thin film of oxygen rich surface water with their upturned mouths, sailfin mollies are able to survive oxygen depleted habitats. A euryhaline species, the sailfin molly may be found in a variety of saline environments and will breed in brackish waters.
Size, Age, and Growth The natural lifespan of sailfin mollies, like other small poeciliids, is short, particularly in the case of the males, which may live less than one year after achieving sexual maturity. Depending upon environmental conditions sailfin mollies may become reproductively in less than a year. Sailfin mollies are small fish. At one year of age males typically range in size from 15-51 mm SL while mature females are likely to be approximately 19-53 mm SL. The sizes of adult males is directly correlated with population density. The greater the population, the smaller the average size of males. The maximum recorded size for this species is 150 mm TL.
Food Habits Sailfin mollies feed primarily upon algae and other plant materials, although they will consume a number of aquatic invertebrates including the larvae of mosquitos.
Reproduction Female sailfin mollies tend to be larger than males, a disparity typical of the Poeciliidae. Males exhibit large and colorful dorsal fins in addition to a colorful caudal fin and these conspicuous secondary sexual features play a role in female mate choice. Fertilization is internal and is accomplished by means of highly modified fin elements within the anal fin of males that form a structure known as the gonopodium. Sailfin mollies produce broods of 10-140 live young, depending upon maturity and size, and females may store sperm long after the demise of their relatively short-lived mates. The gestation period for this species is approximately 3-4 weeks, depending upon temperature, and a single female may give birth on multiple ocassions throughout the year. Although sex ratios of the broods are balanced, adult populations tend to be largely female as males appear to suffer higher rates of mortality due to a greater susceptibility to predators and disease as a consequence of their showy breeding dress and a life spent largely in a frenzy of breeding. There is no parental care exhibited by this species.
Predators Sailfin mollies are small, numerous members of the lower end of the food chain. As such they are prey for numerous animals including aquatic insects, other fishes, reptiles and amphibians, birds and mammals. Specific examples of such creatures include, giant water bugs (Belostomatidae), largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides), American alligator (Alligator mississippiensis), bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana), snowy egret (Egretta thula), and racoon (Procyon lotor).
This is pretty much a stock and pray approach. No sailfin mollies for me, not that I don't think they are cool, but just a lot of problems getting them for the right price and possibly into Cal. This is my longest distance from my home base pond, so I tried to put it on a don't need to visit often plan. I will check it soon though, and maybe even dip a net or fish some for the bg/sf. I will see if customer did all my plans and if it is full now. I think the shiners fit my large batfish segment. I have also had pretty good luck getting fhm and shiners to coexist with gambusia. This pond is a virgin so a lot of things are missing, such as vegetation and shoreline cover. Another reason I chose the mixed baitfish approach, they have some cover, but not a lot.
I'll keep notes as always, but for now staying the course, targeting Spring 2011 for 100 8" and above LMB. My longterm goal is to make this an awesome LMB growth pond, with minimum selective harvesting or planting for at least 5 years. Crawdads will be planted in huge amounts in Fall. Anually.
Yes, I'm sorry I got all elusive...I am just wondering if they would survive NE winters. Might be an interesting forage item to consider either stocking or raising.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
That is why I thought you were askin him. I have less than no clue with that species and zero experience. Sgt. Shultz on that one. Sorry, I fail the know it all test.
I pretty much limit myself to what I can get locally. And in some cases, I stock ponds for my own supplies. I'm set on gambusia, getting there on FHM. Dream of having a dedicated shiner pond. Between paying more for shipping than the fish themselves cost and boxes of fish not up to my standards arriving, like miscounts, wrong species and entire boxes of floaters, I have the ability to cherry pick the best prices and quality. I am just filling the holes of fish my farm friends don't raise. I'd like to have a midrange minnow supply, I normally have used bg for. Whether those mollies, shad or shiners. I still have a hole there. It's on the drawing board, but not a high priority. Just can't get enough good forage. If this pond works out, I may be able to get some breeder shiners out before the LMB eat everything up.
OK started two seperate ponds from scratch within a few miles of each other, but vastly different stocking. Did an accelerated planting, stocked Gams and FHM late winter, then 1 month later lmb, bg, res and cc. Visited ponds yesterday massive fhm hatch. Was not sure that would happen with so little time before lmb and cc planted. Never had much luck planting fhm in established ponds, more like feeding fish. But in a new pond, they just took off. Schools of 50-200 hugging bottom close to shore, they go too far out, LMB boil on them. LMB grown from 3-4" to 7-8 in a few months. I guess they school up for defensive purposes. Having the lmb in there really changes thier behavior. Gams just doing thier thing, right on the shore on the surface. no schools, don't go out even if you get right next to them. FHM outproduced gams heavily, planted at same rate. Might have 2000-3000 along the shore in a 1 1/4 acre pond. Too many to count.
Baitfish cocktail pond only thing you see is gams. FHM come up to feed on pellets, but not in schools, all new hatches as well. Without lmb in there, they act different. Not afraid to go out deep. Some bg feed, don't see GSH at all. Just monitoring the cocktail. Soon to be one massive baitfish pond. LMB next Spring. Was a gamble or risk on that aggressive timing putting lmb in so fast after fhm, but cannot beleive how many produced in such a short time. Just made a note to myself, it is better to start from scratch. LMB went off pellets they were raised on to minnows instantly.
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