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I have been reading all the threads I can on this website since June. The amount of info is staggering to a new pond owner. My just shy of 3/4 acre pond (.7 acre according to the builder) was finished at the end of September 2016. Max depth is 15-16 feet and a large area of 8 feet that slopes to deep end. There is not much surface water runoff getting into the pond. I had them do a mound along the driveway to keep the field runoff out. I did not want the excess nutrients in the pond if I could help it. The house front gutters will be tiled into pond. Seems like most ponds around stay pretty full with just the rain water filling them. We will see on that.

I proceeded to stock one pound of FHM and 75 softshell crayfish from smith creek that fall. I think I am pretty set on the types of fish I want, but I just want to make sure I stock the correct numbers since you can only do it once. I am planning the following species: FHM, GSH, softshell crays, HBG, YP, RES, SMB and HSB and possible some rainbows in the fall to catch out before water temps get too high.

pond goals: To provide quality fishing and filets for the freezer. I want fish the kids can catch to keep them busy during the summer(YP and HBG) and some different fish(SMB and HSB) besides the normal old LMB and BG like most ponds around me. if all else fails, then the LMB and BG can be added. just always read that once there in there is no going back. I don't care to grow a state record fish but I enjoy catching nice big bluegills and light tackle fishing.

also will use blue dye in pond for cleaner looking pond and to help with light penetration for weeds/algae control. the wife wants it for swimming also and a big beach area for my younger kids and other family/friends to enjoy.

I plan to have aeration with diffusers in the shallow and deep areas. I also plan to feed fish more of a supplementary diet so they will still bite well and keep the YP offspring in check. but also want healthy fast growing fish.

I have added a bunch of concrete piles and 5 SMB beds at varying depths from 2-6 feet deep. also a couple FHM condos and some artificial tree structures. I plan to add a bunch of pines and large branch structures this spring. I will put them shallow so I can pull out and replace as needed. also added a few areas of river rock for more spawning areas.

My idea of stocking was to add more FHM and then the GSH, RES, HBG and YP this spring. then add the SMB and HSB next fall(2018) to give the fish a chance to spawn and get a couple age classes established prior to predators. I may also add more crays depending on how my trapping survey goes this spring. I tried catching some last week but only managed to get FHM. not sure if its too cold and the crays aren't active or what. I plan for this to be a lot of put and take also with the HBG and HSB.

questions are, what numbers to stock of each type and whether it is a good idea to stock multiple sizes of the HBG and YP or just fingerlings? I was thinking of stocking 20 or so 4-6 inch of each type to maybe have a few fish to harvest this year?

Also, what time of year should I stock the fish or does it depend on a certain water temp?

any advice and info on what I may be doing wrong is welcome. I just want to do it the best I can from the start.

I also just subscribed to pondboss for 2 years. anyone know when the issues come out?

thanks for looking and any advice,
scott




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Last edited by xraytrapper; 03/01/17 03:55 AM.

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few more pics. I placed most of the structure in the south half of pond so if kids were swimming they wouldn't have to worry about hitting any of it. kind of ran the artificial trees from top to bottom in a line to create a highway for fish to run different depths. hope It makes a good place to jig for the YP also. I added more trees than what some of the pics show. I also added larger rock around pond border where ledge is for better crayfish hiding spots.

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going to bump this back to the top and see if I can get any responses. 125 views and nothing yet. I went thru a few old pond build threads I had printed off and tried to come up with a stocking plan on my own.
there is currently 8-9 feet of water in the 3/4 acre pond and probably 6-7 more to go to full pool. pond completed September of 2016.

fall 2016
75 papershell crays from smith creek
1 lb FHM hand sorted(ran some minnow traps during warm spell and caught plenty of FHM but no crays, not sure if they are inactive at the colder water temps.)

spring 2017
will hand sort all fish
add 5 more lbs of FHM in addition to the 1 lb I put in last fall.
2 lbs of GSH(more if its needed to get them established), will try to get some breeders if possible
75 RES , will try to get 3-4" fish for easier job of hand sorting.

wanting to add HBG and YP this year but not sure if it is better to wait until fall to add to allow forage to spawn with no bigger fish? the fish will be from Shelby fish farm and should all be pellet trained. will pellet trained fish and two different sizes not hurt the minnow population?
was thinking of doing 250 HBG (200 2-4" and 50 4-6" fish to establish couple different age classed). also add 200 YP with a mix of sizes to have a spawn for spring 2018. also will water level be good enough to spring stock although should be closer to full by end of spring rains.

fall 2017
add more papershell crayfish if spawn not achieved and/or small sample size of crayfish population.
possibly some trout for fun

spring 2018
possibly add more HBG and YP to ladder stock for harvesting fish.
? add more FHM

fall 2018
stock 25 SMB
stock 10 HSB and ladder stock 3-5 per year or every other year once YP spawn needs controlled more and for harvesting a few fish after few years.


any comments or advice will be much appreciated.


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Neat deal with a LOT of rocks that had to be labor intensive. I'm impressed. I know nothing about Ohio stocking rates so will leave that to others.


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awesome looking pond


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Originally Posted By: xraytrapper
.....fall 2016
75 papershell crays from smith creek
1 lb FHM hand sorted(ran some minnow traps during warm spell and caught plenty of FHM but no crays, not sure if they are inactive at the colder water temps.)

.....


My understanding, right or wrong....the papershells spawn late summer and the females carry the eggs under their tails (looks like a raspberry) until the following spring when they will hatch. So you currently only have a maximum of the original 75 stocked last fall. I think it would be very lucky to catch one now, even if they are active. If they survive/thrive, you might have a big enough population to trap some late summer.


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Crayfish are pretty inactive in water less than 55-60F. Papershells will be carrying eggs in late May-June. You will get a crayfish hatch in 2017 but most of the young could get eaten by panfish. The adult carys will survive well until the SMB are big enough to eat them.

Pellet trained stocked YP will eat primarily pellets and not a lot of FHM, but they could eat numerous YOY crafish. Stocking two sizes of YP will get you some 10-12" YP by this fall. If the YP with several 6"-8" are stocked in late March early April2017 you will get a YP spawn this year. You only need one or a few egg ribbons to hatch in 2017 to give lots of YOY YP with basically no predators. Check with Shelby to confirm some availability and pick up of egg laden YP with some males along with your perch order. He is open now and selling some fish. I got FHM from him 3 wks ago.

Your stocking plan sounds pretty good for your goals, except depending on how skittish the females are in your family. Lounging, floating, idle swimmers will get nipped by the HBG. Frequency of nippping will depend on several factors. Nipples and body moles look very similar to a fish pellet or snail.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/10/17 10:52 AM.

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Almost identical to the pond I had built in Nov.
Stocking recommendations for a kid friendly pond, not necessarily trophy but easier catch rates and a bit of a put and take to avoid hook shy fish:

I think you could do the following:
25-50 SMB
20-40 HSB
250-500 HBG
100-175 RES
150-250 YP

I am trying for all pellet trained fish ( And will feed 2-3x day ) and will start aeration in the next year or so. I plan on stocking all species at 4-12 inch range depending on species and availability. I will ladder stock depending on harvest and fishing pressure. You could probably go a lot of different ways if you plan to ladder stock and depending on fishing pressure etc...


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Thanks for the responses guys. My girls are 4 and 6 and they have swam with bluegills before and been nipped. They didn't seemed to be bothered by it and actually thought it was funny. They also don't sit still long enough to be idle. And the nipples are usually covered here. Lol.

Bill, so it would good to have a small amount YP reproduction this fall then and not stock predators until fall 2018 ? Or could I stock the predators in late spring of 2018 ?
Also should I stock the HBG this spring also with two size classes?
Will two pounds of the GSH produce a good population?
I will call Steve at Shelby tonight and see what he has and what sizes.
Probably will wait and try to get fish next weekend when it warms up some.

Beastman, we do have pretty similar goals. I will have a put and take fishery somewhat too. I want easy catching fish in the HBG and fillets from them and the YP to eat. Not concerned about having huge SMB but would enjoy catching them on light tackle.


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I would add predators after the YP have spawned or were supposed to spawn. You really don't what an over population YP early. If you stock two sizes of HBG then I suggest you have some predation pressure present when the HBG fry are coming off the nest and present. This spring you can add some of the small HSB to eat and excess hatchling panfish. You may have to wait until fall 2017 to get the smallies.

Stocking some 4"-6" HBG & YP this spring will result in some 8"-10" panfish to harvest this late fall. They grow fast in a new pond. If desired allow for some partial harvest when stocking the numbers.

Two-three pounds of GSH will create a lot of fry if you have adequate spawning habitat for them.

IF you are feeding fish pellets you can add at least some of the predators (HSB) this spring as last year's raised fingerlings (now juveniles) to eat HBG and YP fry plus pellets. You state your goal is not trophy fish just good fishing with panfish to make fillets.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/10/17 03:52 PM.

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bill, I talked to steve at Shelby fish farm. he was very helpful and I would recommend to anyone looking for fish. he said his YP will be dropping ribbons in the next 2-3 weeks. he told me transporting them when gravid and within 6 weeks of spawning poses a high risk for fish aborting the eggs. but, he said if I wanted some ribbons he would give them to me and they would transport great to the pond. so a win , win situation.

he said all his fish are pellet trained except for the RES which he said was a disaster, lol. so they all should take pellets pretty easily and he feeds around sunrise and sunset so I should be able to keep feeding at similar times which hopefully makes the fish pick up the feeding easier.

how many ribbons should I lay on branches in the pond this spring to avoid an overpopulation? I can always add extra HSB this fall if needed.
also will the annual rye I grew in pond bottom last fall at 3-5" tall in spots be good for GSH spawning? I will plant some more on rest of bare dirt around pond when It warms a bit more.

so here is my thinking for stocking.
this spring.
7lbs FHM
3 lbs GSH-he said he probably won't have any breeders available.
200 2-4" HBG
75 4-6" HBG-few extra for harvesting around 25
75 RES 3-4" if available, he said he should have them. he started 1" fish in the fall.
150 3-4" YP
50 4-6" YP
25 6-8" YP-post spawn-few extra for harvesting some 8-10"
5-8 HSB 3-4" more or less if you think numbers aren't right
probably more papershell crays in the fall
probably will wait on the SMB and few more HSB until spring or fall of 2018. guess that will depend on availability and how forage numbers are doing.

any thoughts ?


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Most recent numbers are a very good start. With those fish you should get a few spawns from the HBG sometime this summer. I wouldn't hang any more of Shelby's YP ribbons than 2 or 3. 2 or 3 ribbons that can hatch on branches will provide lots of small perch. You will likely get some ribbons from your YP. I don't have any trouble having YP that I haul abort their eggs.

If the old rye grass is in water 0 to 10" deep you will get a good GSH spawn and hatch especially if the water is not real muddy. Muddy water sediment tends to smother the eggs.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/10/17 09:59 PM.

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thanks for all the good info bill. with this cold weather we are having I think I will wait on getting the YP until after the spawn. that way I can control the amount of ribbons in the pond. I will pick up some FHM and the GSH over next weekend or two so I can hand sort them and hopefully he will have some ribbons for me then.

I will plant some new rye grass to some areas of exposed pond basin and hopefully it will get a good start and grow enough while the pond fills. the fall planted grass is at different depths and usually have pretty good clarity for 18-24" unless it rains then it get muddy for couple days. the clay particles seem to settle out pretty quickly.

do you have any suggestions to get any plants going now that are wanted vs. just letting nature starting what it wants?
I will use blue pond dye and aeration so plants should be to a minimum I would think. and with crayfish in there will new plants just be eaten?

sorry for all the questions and thanks for taking time to answer. this forum is amazing. the amount of info you can find in old threads and the archives can be overwhelming to a new pondmeister. I can't wait for the things to come.


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You shouldn't have trouble due to crayfish damaging new plants since your crayfish population is still low density. Look into locating some small variety or dwarf water lilies for a spring planting. Good Shoreline plants are water iris (blue), pickeral weed, arrow head, lizard tail, variegated sweet flag. IMO get them started in submerged containers first then when established and growing well with lots of roots transplant to desired areas.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=440475#Post440475

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/11/17 03:30 PM.

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thanks again, I will start to read those archived threads. I see a lot of mention of eelgrass on the forum. is that something to look into also?


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update on the pond.
I have put in 12 lbs of FHM. I started with 7 but added 5 more today after getting more larger sized YP and HBG than planned. also added 4 lbs of GSH , some up to 5". other fish added today were three sizes of HBG, 200 2-4", 35 4-6" and 25 6-8". also got 20 replacement RES 2-3". hand sorted everything and took out two catfish in with the FHM and a few weird shaped HBG. the last few pics will be of the HBG that appeared different to me. but i don't have a trained eye for them. i was mainly looking for the yellowing of the fins and green sunfish markings on the jaw/gill plate area. do you guys think they are all HBG?

Last week I added 20 4-6" YP and 50 6-8" YP, few of them being 10". and also 75 2-3" RES. I will get 150 2-4" YP and 25 more 4-6" YP and 8 HSB of two sizes next week hopefully. I finally got the YP to come up to take the feed last night. It took a week but just in time to hopefully have the HBG follow them to the trough.
Still no sign of the papershell craysfish I added except for one I seen along the shallows under a minnow structure. tried minnow trapping some last night and nothing. sure they are ok but would be nice to catch one and see if its carrying eggs.

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Last edited by xraytrapper; 04/22/17 04:44 PM.

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also one other question, some of the HBG had some red behind the tab. is that a characteristic they can have? or could it be some other form of combination other than bluegill and green sunfish.
some close up pics.

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Red accent on the eartab is fairly common on HBG. And the curiously shapen examples you posted do occur from time to time also.

Having said that, I am a little concerned about the overall appearance of the HBG. They almost appear stunted, or maybe an Fx generation rather than an F1. Perhaps they were holdovers from last year, or maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, it's hard to say.


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If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
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Great example of why it is necessary to sort thru your fish! Those two little Bullheads probably would have gotten eaten but, if your luck is as good as mine, they would have been a male and female and survived/thrived!

You should let the fish farm you got the FHM from know that you found BH. They may not be aware their FHM are contaminated.

Last edited by Bill D.; 04/22/17 06:40 PM. Reason: After thought

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thanks for the reply sprkplug, was hoping you would give your thoughts. i hope they are f1. guess time will tell how they grow on the feed. the fun begins.

sprkplug, what makes you think they could be stunted or fx ? just trying to learn. thanks.

and bill i will tell them next weekend when i go get the perch. glad i read some of the horror stories on hear about unwanted species mixed in. the other 8 lbs i sorted thru only had two sticklebacks. was tempted to not sort but glad i did. i have no fish in pond now that could eat them i don't think.


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pond update. fish have been feeding great 6-7 nights a week. the HBG follow you around the pond like pets. been seeing minnows of different sizes swimming around in groups in shallow water and deeper, so hopefully the GSH and FHM are both doing their thing. HBG have made beds but hoping not much spawning going on. planning on putting the minnow traps out next month to see what shows up and to see if the YP eggs made it to minnows. I will be getting 15 small SMB from jones fish in September.

aeration will be going in next month once the shelter house building is done and power at the pond. only have about 1.5-2 foot to fill it to the overflow. kids are already enjoying the couple of feet of water in the beach area. pretty awesome to see things come together. all the clay is hauled away and topsoil spread back over the field and ready to be planted in some grass/wildflower mix this fall. I also had the dirt guy make a swale in the yard to have the water flow into different area of pond to stop the beach erosion. wish I would have done that from the beginning.

I stopped at Smith Creek Fish Farm on my way back to ohio from a trip to Massachusetts visiting the in laws. sure saves some money on shipping when you can pick up the crayfish. got 400 more for about what 75 cost shipped. super nice guy to deal with and only had one or two dead ones after the 7 hour trip home.

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Did a little fishing to get a look at some fish and they seem to be growing well. Those HBG sure are aggressive and easy to catch. Can't wait for them to get over a pound and also provide some filets. I didn't get any measurements or weights, will do that in the fall, but they had some bellies on them. Also caught one perch that looked good that I didn't get a pic of.
How do the HBG look to you guys? I have been feeding them Zieglers 6-7 nights a week. Not sure on the amount , need to weigh it sometime, but they clean it all up.

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They definitely look healthy! That's a beautiful pond.


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another update...The kids and I have been having fun catching some fish. Finally got a HSB to bite in late march and it seemed to be growing nicely. The HBG are growing nicely also and are fat as ever. My daughter caught the biggest one to date last evening, 9". Wish I would have got a weight. And a nice YP. Ribbons were seen in several areas of the pond and seems to be all sizes of YP. The fish just devour the pellets every night.Forage base still looks great with plenty of FHM and GS. Also am trying to still get some SFS, I need to contact the guy again to see if he has gotten any yet. I finally seen a couple crayfish in a clump of grass I was pulling from the pond. And I got 8 SMB delivered in the spring. Although I am a little annoyed that they promised the other size would be ready but that fell thru. I hope they are available this fall. If not I guess those 8 will grow fast.


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