Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose new pond green sunfish

I think I have green sunfish in my pond my phone won't let me download a picture but it's hard to tell my pond is muddy so the fish don't have much color but it has a lot bigger mouth than the bluegill and a rounder looking tail and has a brownish looking ear . I stocked red ear and bluegill so I don't know, they are bigger and they are eating feed , when I threw my jig out there I mostly catch them.My pond is only a few months old and I stocked it as soon as it started filling so I'm not sure what to think

Could be contamination of off species fish from your fish supplier. It happens more often than it should. I had some off species sold to me from a fish delivery truck. Luckily I identified them and did not put them in a forage pond that would have been a disaster for my plans.

They also could be hybrids instead of pure green sunfish. I purchased BG for my main pond but it turned out that maybe about 5% were hybrids instead of pure BG. They show most of the characteristics of GSF but they get larger and their mouth is not quite as large as a pure GSF. Hybrids tend to be mostly males.

That is two possibilities.

Whether it is a serious problem depends on the numbers of the GSF, how important it is to you to have pure BG strain, and who you talk to. If the GSF numbers are low in relation to the number of BG, the BG should out spawn the GSF. If the GSF numbers are high, their aggressive nature could cause major problems for the recruitment of your other fish. If they are hybrids it is most likely the majority are males, so reproduction would not be a serious problem.

I like the few hybrids that are in my pond. Caught one today. They will tend to bite a hook even when all the other fish are not biting.

I'm no expert. Just what I have learned reading and trying to manage around GSF in my old pond. They were bad enough in my old pond I was not getting recruitment of BG or RES (likely the GSF were eating all the eggs and/or fry). So I have been removing GSF and adding BG big enough the GSF can't eat them (taking 4-5" BG from my main pond and putting them in this old pond). Many people don't have the luxury of another pond next door to pull larger BG for stocking to help overwhelm the GSF.

The first step is to determine exactly what you have. If it is really GSF you could have a problem. If they are hybrids probably not very serious as far as your other fish reproducing adequately.

Just my opinion. Like I said, I'm no expert.

If you post a picture they can be readily identified.

As previously said, this happens quite often. What was the source?

If you stocked them to feed bass, you have a problem. They only spawn annually and can't keep up with predation. If you are trying to grow large BG, they also won't work because they seem to max out at about 7 to 8 inches.

Have you caught any pure BG?

The neighbors pond flows into mine he hasn't stocked it and doesn't have any bass in it so they could be coming from there his pond is about two years older than my pond. I have caught a few BG but they are small I just stocked in august I have a feeder throwing twice a day so they are growing fast but I'm catching three to one on the other brim
I tried posting a picture but it doesn't work I'll have to see what I'm doing wrong I tried posting from my phone and it says it's to big

And to add I wasn't really happy with the hatchery that brought my fish a lot of the BG were dying when he showed up they told me they were going to sane them on Monday let them sit a day or so to make sure they're healthy then bring them on Wednesday but Wednesday when the guy should up I asked him why are they dying and he said they just saned them this morning so I asked why and he said they ran out and had to get mine that morning so I don't know
That was the main reason I paid to have them delivered to make sure they survived

If there is a pond that flows into yours, that could easily be where the GSF are coming from. Theoretically, if he did not stock his pond there should not be any fish in it. But a kid or someone throwing in a few fish they caught someplace unbeknownst to the owner, thinking they are doing the pond owner a favor, is all it takes to get a pond full of GSF. Or his pond getting fish from a BOW above his pond.

If you can get permission, go fish the other pond and see what you catch. That would quickly tell you if your pond was "stocked" from his overflow.

Load your picture somewhere and just post the link to it. from your description it seems you have GSF. A good strong population of LMB will usually effectively control the GSF but getting there may not allow you to grow trophy size(8 lb) LMB. If you don't add LMB before the GSF spawn the GSF population could become pretty abundant and more difficult to control. GSF readily enter fish (wire mesh minnow) traps. This is a way to thin your population and sample the neighbor's pond.

Here are some pictures of a small GSF. A lot of the pictures you will find for ID on the internet will be adult pictures. These pictures of young fish might help in your ID. The young fish tend to be longer in relationship to the height. As the fish grows it tends to get taller in relationship to length, but still not as tall as a BG.

This is about a 4" fish. I've included several different photos of the same fish because each picture shows different features better. One has the fins spread out better. Another shows the blue/green bars under they eyes better, etc. Note the coloration on the fin tips, especially the lower fins.

Here are a couple of links that might be of help.
100% Green sunfish
JDFarmer GSF in pond

Hope this helps

Here is a picture of a wire mesh minnow trap like Bill talks about that I use to remove small GSF and BH from my old pond.

I put some fish food pellets in as bait, and the bellies of the fish are so full they look like they are going to explode.

It works best to check the trap about a half hour to an hour after baiting it. If left too long, some will find their way back out. That being said, I often forget about it and come back a day later and some fish will still be in there. I catch the BH mostly just before dark or at night. The GSF go in during the daylight hours mostly.

Some of my minnow traps have wire mesh too big for the fish food pellets to stay in. I wrap the pellets up in a piece of paper and put it in the trap. Bread works also for bait. The GSF will eat about anything. My fish are just used to being fed pellets, so they go right for the fish food.

Thanks I think that's it but my fish don't have much color because my pond is muddy I just don't want to end up taking my red ear out by mistake
Thanks for the pictures I'm going to try and post some

Here are some pictures of different larger GSF.

I sometimes get confused when catching some of the hybrids as they have all the signs of the GSF markings. But they have slightly smaller mouth and are taller in comparison. But then after being confused, when I catch a pure blood GSF, there is no question.

White tipping of lower fins, green bars under eyes are pretty much dead give away that GSF genes are present. That and a big mouth.

7153 fish.jpg

7156 fish2.png
I think this is one of my CNB

Yup, in my non-expert opinion. And a pretty CNB at that. Nothing wrong with that fish. Already can see the copper on the forehead.

In my non-expert opinion, that is a healthy green sunfish (GSF).

(7153, the first picture,not the second one)

I agree!

I was going to wait till may to add the bass should I put them in sooner now

I'll let the guys that do this stuff all the time give you more specific recommendations. I'm only about a year ahead of you in my experience with GSF in a new pond.

I can however relate some of the concerns I would have if it were my pond.

What are the largest size GSF? Don't want to purchase LMB fry and put them in the pond only to become an expensive GSF snack. A GSF can easily eat something one third its length, and longer if it has the right shape. Note the picture linked below. This is a small GSF I caught in a minnow trap. Some unfortunate FHM also entered the trap and the GSF ate him. I saw just the tail inside the mouth of the GSF and pulled that FHM out of the GSF. The minnow was about 2.5-3" long and you can see how long the GSF is in comparison to it. So you are going to need LMB big enough they don't get eaten by the GSF.

In our area the GSF would be done spawning for this year. Not sure about your location. So there will be no more new GSF added till next year, but the current ones you will grow some more this fall likely. One consideration might be the size of LMB fingerlings available. Are larger fish more available in the fall or spring in your area? Might make a difference. Not all sizes of stocking fish are available at all times.

If your stocking is going to be from catching fish from another BOW, then I definitely would start putting in big enough fish ASAP. But if you are going to purchase additional LMB at some point, don't want a few large LMB that will also be eating your new small LMB. Something to keep in mind if you have the desire to go catch some LMB and put in now to start working on the GSF.

These are just a few of the things that would be going through my mind and questions I would have. Now some of the experts probably have good recommendations of how to proceed.

Just like a LMB, the GSF are eating machines.

cwadeer, what are your goals for the pond?

I wanted a good all around pond with good bass and CNN

Dave Davidson likes GSF in his pond, and he is in the south like you. If you could go to his name and click on it and do a search of some of his posts about GSF it might help you. Or he might read this, happen along and give you a first hand account.

But I recall from his previous comments that he has had trouble keeping them in his pond because eventually the CNBG out reproduce them.

Guys in the north seem to have a dread hate of the GSF. Guys in the south seem to at least tolerate them and don't see them as such a threat. Just my observation reading threads here on PBF.

Here in my area, probably 90+% of the ponds have GSF in them. Many, many ponds it is the main forage fish, most being bucket stocked from some nearby creek. Creeks are full of them as are the old coal strip pits. The only ponds that are absent GSF are the ones where the pond owner is interested enough in fish and fishing to stock BG. And even some of them have GSF because the fish truck they bought their fish from had GSF contamination in their stock. So here GSF in ponds is a way of life. GSF are the backbone of most LMB fishing around here. Not saying it is a good backbone, but just the way it has been for many years.

So I know they can be managed around. Maybe not to a perfect pond situation, but managed.

Where you have water above you that you have no control over what fish are in it, my guess is you have no choice but to learn to manage around GSF.

Like others, I wound up with a mix of sunfish when I ordered BG. And like others I tried to eliminate them. Fat chance! Then I started catching them and found that inch for inch, they out fought a BG or RES. It's not even a close contest. They didn't seem to get hook shy. That made them a fun fish. I also noticed that they were more fusiform than BG and were thus easier for predators to eat. Things started making sense. So, I quit tossing them on the bank. After about 5 or 6 years they were gone. They just couldn't compete with BG spawning.

The last one I had was huge. When fishing, I jerked the bait away from so it wouldn't get injured. Then they were all gone.

I forgot about them until the creek overflowed into my forage pond. Previously the pond had contained all BG and RES that I had gotten from Lusk. Then I started occasionally catching one. Now, a couple of years later, trapping shows that I have about 50/50 mix of BG/GSF with no RES showing up. And, when I trap, I don't hesitate to stock them in my bigger pond.

Maybe some RES are still there but since they seldom eat pellets, I wouldn't be able to trap them anyway. I'll probably seine next Spring and find out whether there are any left.

In Texas and probably Louisiana, they can't compete with the rolling spawns of BG. But, I can always get more.

If my goal was Like AL Hall's to grow pure strain monster gills, I wouldn't want them.

Dave the current plan for my old pond as far as the GSF are concerned is that as soon as I start seeing evidence of recruitment of BG via the minnow traps I'll quit trapping and destroying the GSF. I actually hope there will be some natural hybridization.

I've seen a pond where the GSF ate all the YOY of the RES, YP and GSH in the pond. Pond owner had the pond dug, didn't realize there was GSF in the puddle that he enlarged to 1 ac. then only stocked RES/YP/GSH and FHM at 50% the recommended rate, probably thinking he was going to save some $$ by doing that and letting them grow and spawn for 2 years before adding SMB instead of the usual 1 year. The GSF won.........

I think that is pretty much what happened to me. I'm completely clueless as to the fate of my original 125 RES stocked but they were 3" fish and stocked soon after the pond filled so I don't think they were all eaten but don't know. But what you say makes perfect sense because I've seen no recruitment of anything but GSF. That Is why I've been on a mission of taking out GSF and BH while at the same time adding BG regularly that are large enough to not be eaten by the GSF. Also added a half dozen LMB at 9" that are now up to about a foot.

I figure to keep removing GSF and adding 4 to 5" BG untill I start seeing recruitment in the BG.

That should work shouldn't it? Add more LMB as I start seeing lots of forage.

I have my main pond right near this pond for a stocking source and right now in it I have an abundance of 4_5" BG and my 12" LMB will not spawn till next year in that pond. So I figure there is not much problem removing some of that 4_5" size class BG from my main pond. Probably have transferred maybe 250 BG so far.

Eventually the GSF will have to be overpowered if I keep this process up will they not?

Will raise some more RES up big enough size to escape predation in my forage and sediment ponds then also add them to the old pond.

I don't see how the GSF can win at this game as long as I keep adding fish too big for them to eat while at the same time remove all the GSF I have the time and energy to remove.

It has become a quest!