Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose LMB Pond in Northern New Mexico

Hi everyone!
I have been lurking here on your forums for awhile now and I must admit the pond bug has bit me hard. I am an avid bass angler and I am interested in building my own pond.

The Goals
Have a ½ to 1 acre pond with forage fish and excellent Predator, preferably LMB or SMB, fishing.
I am not looking to harvest ANY fish for food.
If it’s better for the pond to have some forage or predator fish be harvested, then I would gladly do that but I never want to damage the fishing quality.
I am willing to feed pellets to the forage or predator fish. In my mind I would rather fed the forage fish because I would think the predator fish would become too used to eating pellets than live bait. Please let me know if that logic is incorrect.
I am not interested in stocking ant catfish, striped bass or carp unless it’s helpful to the bass. (Don’t get me wont I love all types of fishing, it’s just I would like to see how well I could manage the predator fish in ideal conditions.)

The Plan
My plan was once the pond was built and filled, to do an initial stocking of pure strain bluegill and a large amount of flat head minnows.
After 6-12 months, I would introduce the predator fish along with another large stocking of FHM.
In theory the FHM would be food until there is a new batch of bluegill.
I would feed pellets to the bluegill and in turn they would feed my bass.
Ideally I would like to have bass averaging around the 2-3 pound range, any larger would be wonderful.
Due to the high cost I do not plan on providing any aeration to this pond.

The Issues
I think that my biggest problem is with my location. I live in Northern New Mexico and although our summers are plenty warm our winters are a lot colder than people think. Here is the monthly High/Low averages thought the year.
Jan 43/17, Feb 48/21, Mar 56/26, Apr 65/32, May 74/40, Jun 82/47, Jul 86/53, Aug 83/53, Sep 78/46, Oct 67/36, Nov 53/26 and Dec 43/18
I completely expect the pond to Ice over during the winter. There is a nearby lake that has lots so smallmouth that seem to survive well but there are no LMB. Is that a sign that LMB are not meant to live in this environment or could it be for other reasons?
That being said ideally I would like to have LMB. They seem much easier to provide forage for and I just like fishing for them. I am just unsure if they could survive the winter here. I am willing to sacrifice a shorter growing season, so long as they will be healthy.
If it’s decided that my property is not habitable for LMB my next thought would be to SMB. I like SMB and would be fine with having them in my pond but they seem much more difficult to maintain forage fish for. I have read that bluegill are not a good pair for SMB. Second SMB seem more difficult to obtain, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The Questions
1. What fish do you think will be able to survive in a pond at this location? LMB, SMB, Bluegill, FLHM?
2. Are there any suggestions that could help keep the fish alive during the winter? Eg: deeper pond, larger surface area or electric heaters (please don’t let it come to that).
3. I really don’t want to shell out a $1000 on an aerator much less run power to it. How will not having an aerator affect my pond?
4. In the event LMB are not a reasonable fish to stock, how difficult would SMB be to stock and provide food for?

Welcome, FNM, excellent first post with a lot of information and good questions.
Lots of experts on more northern type waters here, I'm sure they'll chime in....my initial thoughts are that, as long as you have adequate soils and waters to keep a pond at a reasonable depth, LMB should be fine in your area-they're found much further north and in much more extreme conditions than yours. Ice shouldn't be a problem-NM gets plenty of sun during the winter, and a heck of a lot of wind will hopefully keep your ice, when you have it, relatively free of snow, allowing enough photosynthesis to produce 02. It's more often the low 02 that kills fish under ice than the temperature...

I suspect the reason the nearby lake [McPhee, perchance??] doesn't have LMB is because none were stocked, not due to conditions.
Again, welcome to the forum.

Thank you so much for your comment. I agree with you about the lake (Abiquiu)not having LMB simply because they were never stocked. As far as soil, i am completely lost. I can say that the land i plan to build the pond on is currently used as an alfalfa field. Another concern i have is vegetation. There are not many ponds in NM so I'm not sure if they will grow vegetation like Texas ponds. If there is little vegetation is it going to affect the fish an some way?

Your water will likely be plenty fertile if created from that soil, given the usual effects of alfalfa and its requirements for growth. You should have plenty of algae for 02 production, even if you don't see anything that really looks like a "plant".

Do you have clay with which to form a relatively impermeable liner for the pond? And what will be your water source?

Going back to a couple of your other questions:

SMB would be fine in such a pond, but you should be able to have LMB if you'd prefer.
As mentioned above, I don't think you'll need an aerator. A pond of 8-10feet depth would be unlikely to winterkill at those temps, IMHO, and even if you have ice for significant periods, as long as it isn't heavily covered with snow, probably won't run into winterkill problems.
Hopefully someone will chime in who knows more about your climate will chime in shortly.

My simple input as a newbie to the aeration:

I don't think you have to install it. Your temps look very similar to my area, possibly a few degrees warmer. However, you state that you want to grow the best LMB you can under ideal conditions. I think that includes aeration. With it, you should be able to increase the amount of LMB your pond holds--at least this is how I have been understanding it. Increase could be physical quantity or higher pounds of just a few fish.

You are going to invest a good amount of money in building this pond. The cost of aeration will be only a fraction of that. Now if there is no electric within say 1500' of the pond, that's tougher. Lots of sun, then maybe solar powered as one member is trying.

I did not plan on aeration myself and don't have it yet. But then learned about its benefits here, and I want to in the very near future. A new pond owner has alot to absorb and learn, most of which he doesn't know yet what he needs to know. That's where PB comes in.



P.S. What is FLHM?

My guess is FHM?

You are in high desert and LMB should do fine. They just don't have the growing season to become giants. But, barring problems, they should survive and grow with no problem. You will probably need to keep any built up snow off the ice of the pond.

Yolk asked the best question about the clay. In the end, it all comes down to the dirt, fertility and management.

Unfortunately i have no idea on the clay content of the soil. If one of you would be willing to walk me through the process of checking I will look at it this weekend.

The property i plan to build the pond runs along a small creek. In the fall, when farmers no longer care who uses the water, I plan to use one or two water pumps(3" hose). I would run them in the fall and with the help of some snow I would think the pond would be full by spring.

Sorry FLHM was suppose to mean fat head minnows. I'm still getting a hang for all the acronyms.

Several "country boy" ways come to mind. All assume some level of moisture.

The first is to make a ball and see if it holds together. Mike Otto, one of the owners of this site, is a pond builder. He said to let one of the kids throw a ball of it at his pickup. If it stuck he fired up the dozer.

It makes sense to dig a test hole with a backhoe and look at the dirt at various levels. You are trying to avoid sand and/or rocks. Neither hold water.

Cut a hole in the bottom of a bucket and fill it half way with your soil. Tamp it down. Then fill with water and see how long it takes to drain. There is no go/no go recipe on this but it will give you and idea.

You need about a 50/50 mix(this can vary) of clay and plain old dirt. This mix is loam and that's what you are looking for.

The NRCS should have a book about the soil types in your county and maybe on your specific area. Check with them.

Any more ponds in the area? Check with the owners about their experiences.

Here's a list of acronyms:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92442#Post92442

Here is one for you guys to think about. Elevation can be a concern due to temps. But does O2 diffuse into water at elevation (low 02)at the same rate as at sea level and if not then what are common levels of O2 in the water at elevation? Assuming the pond will hold water I would stock SMB , FH and PS. I would add a couple LMB to see what happens. If LMB work then you could stock more and in time they will out compete the SMB. Hedge your bets !

Thanks guys! I plan on doing some soil testing this weekend, maybe i can take a few pictures.

I can say that the elevation is right at 7000feet. Please let me know how you think that will change things.

I am sad to say that i think the soil has lots of football sized rocks in it. I dont have a backhoe at the moment but in the past we have seen many rocks when digging. I'm confident that digging out the pond wont be a problem but if the rockiness will affect the ponds likelihood of holding water there might be issues.

If the dirt is good, try and find a way to sort out the rocks. Dig it larger/deeper, then repack the bottom and sides with the cleaned soil.

My soil is a mish-mash of glacial till, which means a lot of rocks of all sizes and types, but with enough clay mixed in as to allow a seal. If the stones aren't porous, and you have enough clay mixed in, I'm sure it will be fine.

Up here in NY, due to the soils being the result of glaciation, there are a lot of stones in most fields. I see a lot of farmers have the skid-steers with a "rock hound" on the front zipping around sorting stones from soil. For the larger rocks, they have several forks on the front of a scoop to pop the stones out and carry them off. See if you can find one of those setups, and set the stones aside for lining the shore and building structure when the hole is done.

Rocks are never preferred but aren't always a killer. Last year I visited a West Texas pond with a rocky dam that you would think wouldn't hold water. The owner told me that all ponds in the area were rocky and mostly successful.