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i am planning on building a 9 acre pond and adding 3 streams 9ft wide for rainbow trout spawn will this work i am really looking for trout to spawn. the pond will be a cool water pond with sand and lots of gravel on the bottom. i am also planning to stock small mouth bass with minnows as forage for both the bass and trout. will this be a stable pond

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Welcome to the forum Anthony, there are alot of variables in getting trout to spawn naturally, but it's sure worth a try if you have enough cool water flow.
What is your water source?,they really need a good flow to aerate the eggs and if you can get them, small rounded river rock to line your stream with.
Another problem is if you have too many small predators in the stream that will eat the eggs and fry, so some type of dam to keep the pond fish from going up the stream eating your fry.

Good luck and let us know of your progress.



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i am planning to build a couple of streams with a strong pump pushing and keep a flowing stream leading to the pond. the dam idea sounds good. well i hope for the best and that the rainbow trout will spawn there.
but my other question is will the food chain be stable with small mouth bass, rainbow trout with a forage fish like minnows/shiners
like a mentioned before the bottom will mostly be gravel and sand

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Originally Posted By: anthony is here
but my other question is will the food chain be stable with small mouth bass, rainbow trout with a forage fish like minnows/shiners
like a mentioned before the bottom will mostly be gravel and sand

Golden shiners can provide a good forage for SMB & RBT, but you should put some structure and cover in for them to hide and spawn. Crawfish would be good for the SMB so adding rocks for cover and rock nests for the SMB to use would help.
If you go into the search feature here you will find plenty of info on structure for the pond and also info on SMB.


Here's some info from EWEST.
Pictures Start below this post. Near the end of the thread is a post on types and nature of structure and how they fit together for fishing. See the underwater videos on fish and structure (dated 25-03-08)on pg 2 by Dwight and Nate .


Here are links to a number of prior threads covering some of the types and methods of adding structure , cover and materials to ponds . This will serve the purpose until we can fix it for purposes of Common Pond Q&A (archives).


I will add a number of specific links below on some of the questions.

general stct. info methods:

Below is a link to the new Habitat Manual from the Southern Division of The American Fisheries Society. It is a great resource for info on and building of cover/stct. I think you will enjoy this and get some ideas including drawings/pics.

http://www.sdafs.org/reservoir/manuals/habitat/Main.htm

Also there is a new Aquatic Vegetation Manual linked below

http://www.sdafs.org/reservoir/manuals/aqveg/veghome.htm

If you have water depth fluctuations or will fish in fall through spring (as well as summer) then some deep cover is good. I like cover that goes from the bottom at 15ft all the way to or near the surface in a few locations.

Artificial man-made structure.

PVC trees and balls

PVC trees and balls

Other Artificial Structure

Other Artificial Structure

Other Artificial Structure

Pallets as Structure

Xmas trees as Structure

Xmas trees as Structure

Gravel for BG spawning

Rip-rap as Structure

Rock for LMB spawning

Tires as Structure

Sand for Spawning

General Structure and Cover Ideas

Oak Trees

Pond Photos - Structure

Thermoclines and Islands

There are hundreds of threads here on stct. and cover. The above are a few good ones many of which have links to additional material and even better pics.

Here is a link to Bob's archive thread on the subject.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=22&t=000043
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Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/01/12 03:00 PM.


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what are the conditions you plan to create for the trout to spawn?
i have considered progressing from a stocked trout pond to a self generating system.
besides cold aerated water flowing over gravel, what else is necessary?
how do the spawning fish reach the spawning area from the pond?
i guess at some point you restrict access to the spawning area to prevent predation?

i like your concept and look forward to hearing more of your ideas.

AP-thanks for your work educating us newbies. keep it coming.

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i was planing to add tons of structures like a sunken row boat, trees and all sorts of things
i was thinking about adding crawfish as an extra forage for the bass
what else would have to touch on for this to be a good pond

so the the RBT may spawn in the built in stream, adding a dam blocking predation on the trout eggs and when the trout have spawned and grow a little i will take down the dam for the trout to swim into the pond

this sounds good? or what else do i need to touch on?

what about a little variety to the trout species like brook or brown trout with the original rainbows

is this good or will it disturb the balance in the pond

so SMB RBT as the predators with GS and CRF as the forage
and maybe brook or brown trout

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The biggest factor for trout is sufficient oxygen and water temps. mostly below 70degrees in your pond. If you are trying to get them to spawn in an artificial stream atleast it will be in the late winter early spring for the rainbows and late fall or early winter for brookies, so temp won't be a problem.
I think the first challenge is to be able to have them survive in your pond during the summer months, if thats successful then you can plant some RBT in the artificial stream in the fall and trap them out in the spring so you can return them to the pond.

There's alot of different ways of experimenting so read up all you can and make a plan, but remember things don't always go as planned, or as the pond boss say'in goes, "It all depends". smile

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/01/12 06:14 PM.


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Ummmmmmm, do you have any idea how big of a pump you are going to use for a 9 foot wide stream? Will you be using one pump for all 3 streams, or 3 different pumps? How deep will the streams be?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Ummmmmmm, do you have any idea how big of a pump you are going to use for a 9 foot wide stream? Will you be using one pump for all 3 streams, or 3 different pumps? How deep will the streams be?
Esshup is hinting on how costly this will be. laugh

Another method to get trout to spawn which would be less costly is to build a spawning box for the pond, there's a great article on building one in the sept.-oct.2006 issue of Pond Boss mag., back issues are available.



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Who me? wink

I was really curious to see if the OP did their calculations as to how much water they'd need to pump.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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it was going to be 3 separate pumps
as the stream comes to an end the width will come down just enough to have the pump pushing the water all the way to the pond

but what was it that you mentioning about the spawn box
how does this work

this seams alot easier to get the trout to spawn

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It's even easier buying the trout you need as it's not like they are expensive. grin

Seems like a lot of trouble and expense to potentially find out you could have used your resources more wisely. From my experience with trout in a pond, and what it would take to complete you plan I see all kinds of problems.

BTW not only will any predator fish you add gobble down what fry you do produce but so will your trout.

Not trying to be negative but just trying to be frank with you.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/01/12 07:49 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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so what ur saying is that the idea for this pond will not be in balance
or have to many problems

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Balance is a fickle thing. It might be in balance this week and out of balance next week. Mother nature doesn't like balance. It's a constant battle, like trying to keep a teeter totter horizontal.

For the size pumps you will need, you can buy thousands of 10"-12" trout. Then you have to figure in the electric and infrastructure for the pumps. How will you keep them from freezing in the winter?

I don't understand what you said: "as the stream comes to an end the width will come down just enough to have the pump pushing the water all the way to the pond"

The end of the stream at the pond? If the stream is just trickling into the pond, how will the trout swim up it?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Originally Posted By: anthony is here
so what ur saying is that the idea for this pond will not be in balance
or have to many problems


I just see all kinds of problems and expense when it could be done a much simpler way. I'm a keep it simple stupid guy.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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all right no need to call me stupid
i got it abraham was'nt around when internet was

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lincoln wasnt around wen internet was

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Just a phrase. Cecil wasn't calling you stupid. It's a phrase I live by as well. Heed the advice here and you will avoid expensive mistakes.

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I guess that it's only a waste of money and time. Sure, you can create some artificial streams to improve the view or so but most probably they will never be used for spawning (even if they would, no results will be achieved).
I've never heard about any fishkeeper working this way. Everything is done in hatcheries with special fish tanks, proper temperatures etc.

An example. My country - Latvia. Brown trouts live here and our trout streams are suitable for their reproducing. Some decades ago rainbow trouts were introduced to our rivers and streams. Nobody know why but they don't do the same. Yeah, they live their lives succesfully but they do not spawn eggs. There are plenty of rivers with perfect "configuration" for brown trouts but these rainbow trouts somehow don't like something.

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Originally Posted By: Omaha
Just a phrase. Cecil wasn't calling you stupid. It's a phrase I live by as well.


Thanks Omaha. I would never call anyone stupid here.

It's called the K.I.S.S. principal (Keep it simple stupid.) Something I live by too. I'm also an adherent to the Occam's razor principal when it comes to solving problems.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/02/12 12:37 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: is it
lincoln wasnt around wen internet was



I didn't know that! grin

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/02/12 10:02 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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There's a million things people enjoy doing that aren't practical just to see if it can be done.
I don't know if Anthony wants a artificial trout stream just to see if it's possible, or if he just wants trout, sure trout are cheap and buying them is the practical way to go, but trying to do the unusual can be rewarding if you succeed, you just have to be prepared to accept the costs if you fail.

First things first, get your pond built, buy some trout, and see if they will survive the summer heat.



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The most important thing for us to do is lay out all the info - options , costs , benefits , plus and minuses etc so the pond owner can weigh them and choose. Then help them as the process moves along.
















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The odds of trout successfully reproducing in an artificial stream are low. The odds of those fry/parr surviving predation from SMB/other trout is even lower... If I was a multimillionaire, I'd buy a private lake in Maine and have a ball raising wild born trout. Short of that, stocking hatchery born trout is generally the only option .

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There must be an echo in here Travis. grin

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/04/12 12:40 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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