Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose What is Normal???

Got lower half of pond complete and it has been filling during the heavy rains we have had. I am building the pond in two halves seperated by a temp dam. The lower half is just a little over an acre and is already about seven feet deep.. I have been monitoring the level to see if it has any leaks before I stock it with fish. What should I expect as far as evaporation or "soaking in" for a new pond. The last week we have had no rain and the water has dropped 1 1/2 inches. Is this normal? I noticed that the banks and the dam are wet about a foot above the water line. The pond is about half full. Also the water is very muddy (1"vis) which I assume is normal because the grass i have seeded along the banks has yet to germinate and every time it rains it washes clay back into the pond. I did take a jar of the water and set it aside to see if it will settle out. How clear does the water need to be before I can begin stocking the fatheads and shiners?? I would also like to stock the pond with Yp, RES, and Bordello BG Bt. Would you suggest stocking at the same time as the Fh and shiners. I plan on giving it a year then stocking the WE SMB & HSB. Then BC the following year. If this were your pond and you were stocking these is this how you would do it? Other suggestions??

HEY OZARK...I CAN'T ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS BUT I WILL SAY THAT UNLESS YOUR TOTAL POND SIZE IS 30-50 ACRES YOU PROBABLY WON'T GET 3 PEOPLE HERE TO RECOMMEND BC AT ALL.

I fish an 6 acre pond and a 25 acre pond. Both are extremely clear. Originally these ponds had lots of white crappie stocked by well meaning neighbors. The neighbors no longer fish it, at least while we are watching, and the white crappies have been replaced by big black crappie. Unless you have a very clear pond, I would suggest staying away from crappie. If it is very clear, BC may be able to sight feed and be fed upon to control them. This is just my observation. I would defer to those on here that may have more technical knowledge. Good luck on your new pond.

Not an expert or even a novice when it comes to dams or water leakage, so hopefully someone who is will chime in on that aspect.

I think you would be safe stocking the GSH and FHM when the water is still fairly muddy.

If it were my pond... I'd stock the GSH and FHM this spring. Give them a full year to themselves. Grow, spawn and multiply... This fall, you can stock the RES if they are available. By next spring, you should have the water clarity under control. I would contact Todd Overton with Overton Fisheries and have him send you 50-100 lake chubsuckers as an additional forage species. The follow year, I would stock the HSB, SMB, WE and YP when available, spring or fall. When your originally stocked SMB are large enough to spawn, that may take 2 or 3 years, then stock the BG. With SMB, you want to give them a huge head start on the BG, so you up the chance of them controlling them which is still doubtful. When 1/4 of your SMB are at least 16", you can then consider stocking BC. Even then I would shy away from them as BC just aren't good pond species. But... If you must stock them, wait a few years for many of your SMB to be in the 16" range. By then, a number of your HSB should also be in the 20"+ range and they should assist in controlling the BC.

Awesome info cjb thanks so much for the plan. This is exactly what I needed. I don't think I actually have a leak but just wasn't sure what was normal water loss from evaporation and soaking. Thanks again for the stocking info. If you have any thoughts on quantity of each fish I would greatly appreciate it.

Ozark, I really like your fish combination. Just be patient! For it to have a chance to work you really need to have different fish species at the right sizes for when other fish species are stocked...

Your predators, the HSB, SMB and WE are really going to struggle to control the BG, throw in BC and it will be really tough on them. What kinda of habitat work have you done on the pond? Is there habitat for the SMB to spawn, etc...

What are your goals for each species? Sizes you want out of them? Are you going to feed your fish? Are you willing to utilize other methods besides rod and real to manipulate the fish populations such as traps, nets, etc? Are you going to aerate the pond? What source does the water in your pond come from? Run off, spring, feeder stream, etc?

Once I get some answers I'll try to give you my best advice. Keep in mind though, this is basically experimental... I think it's workable, but it will take work and isn't a sit back and just watch things happen type set up. You will have to actively manage your fish community to make it work.

Thank you so much for your assistance. It will not fall on deaf ears. If I have learned anything from the hours of reading on this forum it is to try and do things right the first time or the nightmares may begin.. About my pond...The best way to describe it would be a dumbell shape with only runoff for a source of water. One side of the dumbell is approx 22 feet deep with a stair stepped island in the center that has 12 baldcypress planted at the peak and around the edges of the island to help shade the pond eventually. banks are between 2-1 and 3-1 The center of the dumbell is approx 7 feet deep and approx 75 yrds long with 2-1 banks. It is set up to spread out over surrounding grass lands when at full pool to give minnows a place to party... The temp dam is at the head of the narrow to allow the lower half to fill while the upper half is being completed. The lower half of the dumbell is approx 12 feet deep and has a fair share of shallower water on east side for spawning and water plants. each end of the dumbell is approx an acre in size and once the upper half is complete the temp dam will be removed and it will be one pond 2.5 acres more or less at full pool.

As for cover I will try and take some pics and post to see if I am on the right track. While constructing we have left some ridges, dirt piles etc.. Also as mentioned we built the island using a stair step method each step is approx 3 feet in height and three feet in width This was done on two sides of the island. I have also constructed three large pallet runs using pallets stair stepped up the bank held down by lrg rocks placed on top of them. Each run contains about 10 pallets. Also I constructed a pallet pyramid starting with 6 pallets on the bottom and stepping each one in and building it up so that it is seven feet tall. This is also held down by numerous bricks and rocks set on each pallet.. It almost looks like a large rock pile. all together i have nearly 50 pallets in the pond so far. I have also cut down three large cedar trees (nearly 18 feet tall) and place them along the edges of the pond trunk towards the bank and top running down hill. Along with that I cut down a fairly large oak and laid it sideways along the bank piling small boulders on the trunk and along the bottom to make a pretty decent size boulder pile. for the small stuff I took six ton of 3/4 in trap rock and spread it out to make a bed about 30 yards by 30 yards starting at six feet deep and going to the surface. Along with that we have several other rock and gravel piles placed here and there.With a couple large logs laid down running up hill.. I have also seeded the banks down to the water with annual rye, buckwheat and clover to hopefully germinate soon and give some vegative cover as well as spawing habitat for the gsh. I cut three 10 foot tall cedars and laid them next to a pallet teepee for my daughters ducks to use as cover until the water level rises and turns it to fish habitat. Last but not least I am picking up bricks, busted concrete pieces etc.. to place on dam.

As for the other questions....Yes I do plan on feeding. Goals for fish..Get as big as possible...

My family eats a ton of fish So as far as the perch, bluegill and crappie they are tablefare as well as fun for the kids. We will harvest these as soon as they are big enough to fillet but at the same time allow some to get big enough by implementing a size limit. Ie keep all crappie under 15 inches Same for the perch

The hbs, we, smb are for pleasure as well as managing the prey..catch and release only unless the smb do reproduce and need managed then we will eat them also.

Blue tilapia for algae and plant control as well as eating

Res for controlling snails and eating

Fatheads, shiners, and lake chub suckers for feeding the fish and trapping to use as bait for fishing at other lakes. Ie shiners once they get big I'll trap and use for striper fishing.

I am very willing to do the work to make this all happen. Cant wait to start managing the fish.. I am getting real tired of digging. every day since Nov I have been out there doing something.This pond is all a dug out pond. We have a dam at the end to back the water up high enough so it overflow away from the neighbors. The pond is basically in my front yard so I wont have to spend any gas money to get there

Blue Tilapia are not legal for open water stocking in Missouri unfortunately...we have a nimrod in charge.

Ozark, if you are a subscriber which I hope you are as the magazine is a great source that has much more in depth and thoroughly researched articles in it... Check out the articles from last year written by Bill Cody on SMB. You can also research information on here on SMB habitat. Particularly spawning bed construction. If you can afford and find a source of it, I would strongly recommend you obtain as much rock/concrete chunk as you can find/afford. Use it to line steep areas to prevent erosion, create some rock piles, etc. All your primary predators, the SMB, WE and HSB all like rocky structure. Don't get too carried away with the pallets and cedar trees. You don't want too much cover for your BG to take cover in and not be preyed on.

As soon as you see the water starting to clear up and remain fairly clear, I would also look into getting grass shrimp and papershell crayfish for your pond. I would stock them early than later to give them a jump on the predators. However, the grass shrimp in particular are sensitive to muddy water, so wait for the water to clear before stocking them. Grass shrimp really are a great addition to a pond's food chain. The rocky cover you will add will really help the crayfish and the grass shrimp as well. Make sure you obtain papershell crayfish as they are in my opinion the best species for your area. Check to make sure they are legal to stock in your state as well as the grass shrimp. The grass shrimp are commonly known as Mississippi grass shrimp. Fattig's Fish farm sells them and TJ who is a member on here usually puts together a group order to get a better price on them. Check with him to see if he is doing that again this spring or next. If not, you can call up Fattig's on your own and order some.

With the final pond being approximately 2.5 acres, I would go with this stocking plan. However, make sure it is REALLY 2.5 acre and not 1.5 or 2... Here is my opinion on stocking numbers and timing.

This spring:
5 pounds of GSH 2"-4"
10 pounds of FHM

Whenever the water clears and remains clear:
50-10 lake chubsuckers(LCS) Contact Todd Overton and see when he can ship them. I was able to get 50 from him and they shipped to me in VA from TX with no issues.
Up to 500 Mississippi grass shrimp, sometimes we call them PK shrimp on here. They ain't cheap, so if you have to stock less, that is fine particularly if you can get them in well before you stock any predators. The earlier the better...
5-10 pounds of papershell crayfish

At a minimum, give your forage at least 1 year to be in the pond without predation by SMB, WE or HSB. For this to have a chance to work you really need to have your pond overflowing with forage. It's tough to be patient, but it pays off. I waited 2 years after stocking my forage and will finally be stocking my newest project with predators this spring.

So, say you stock your pond with FHM and GSH this spring that would be 2011.

By 2012, I hope the pond has cleared up and you can now stock the LCS, the papershells and the grass shrimp. You can also stock the RES this year as well and I would stock them in the fall with the others in the spring. I would stock 250 fish in the 2"-4" range.

In 2013, I would stock(this would most likely need to be a fall stocking to find the fish listed at the correct sizes):
100 SMB 2"-4" or a little bigger(say 6") if you can find them.
50 HSB 2"-4" or up to 6".
25 WE 2"-4" or a little bigger if you can find them.
300 YP 2"-4"

In 2014, I would stock(again in the fall):
Another 100 SMB 2"-4" or a little bigger(say 5"-6") if you can find them.
50 HSB, preferably larger than 4", a fall stocking would be fine to find 8"-10" YOY fish.
25 WE preferably in the 6" range.
If you see signs of YP reproduction in the spring of 2014, via netting, trapping, fish or visual observation, then you will not need to stock more. If your fish, didn't get large enough to reproduce, I'd stock another 300 YP in the fall of 20114.

In 2015, I would stock:
50 HSB, you'll need larger stockers from here on out or you'll loose many to predation by the fish already in the pond. I would shoot for HSB in the 8"+ range now and eventually 10"-12"+ fish would be ideal. This means you're gonna need to purchase fish in the fall who have been fed and treated well, so they are in the 8"-10" range by their first fall. Otherwise you'll be ending up with stunted growth fish older than a year and you don't want them...
25 WE, again the larger the better to prevent losing them to predation.

From 2016 on, you will want to stock approximately 50 HSB and 25 WE per year, the bigger the better, again to avoid losing newly stocked fish to predation. You can consider every other year stocking if you wish and this may be a good idea, particularly if you are seeing forage shortages. By stocking fish every year, you'll increase the number of year classes you have to add to a mixed size range of each species that cannot naturally reproduce in your pond.

Your first SMB went into the pond in 2013, and let's say they went in as 4" fish that fall. By the fall of 2014, under the good conditions we hope your pond has, they should be 8" with maybe a few pushing 10". Your SMB should spawn the spring of 2015. It is the spring of 2015 that I would then stock the BG. I would stock 400 5"+ fish. These fish will be large enough to avoid predation. These fish should grow quickly by feeding on pellets and the natural food chain. They'll spawn well but by now, your predators have gotten to a size where they can control their reproduction. The problem is many ponds the BG get ahead of the predators, even ponds with LMB. Your pond lacks LMB, so there is an even greater chance of this happening. With this stocking plan, I am hoping this won't be the case. Again, your predators for the first couple years will have to rely solely on the GSH and FHM. Your HSB will be feeding heavily on pellets as well. If you source pellet trained SMB, all the better as they will be able to utilize the pellets too. When the BG go in, the predators are gonna be getting size to them and will be able to handle the spiny BG as their mouths will be large enough to effectively prey on them and continue to pray on YOY fish even after they've put some size on. By the fall of 2015, those originally stocked SMB should be pushing 12" with some closing in on 15". By the fall of 2016, you'll have a good number of fish over 16" and many over 12". Your HSB should be pushing 20"+ by now and some of your walleye should be over 15" as well. It is then I would consider stocking crappie. Keep in mind all the risks crappie involve and strongly weigh them... The BG are gonna be a trick enough to manage with just the smaller sized mouths of your 3 main predators. All other species in the pond are easily manipulated for the most part, but IMO the BG and BC are going to be real tricks. If after thoroughly reading the downsides of stocking the BC and still really want them, stock them in the spring or fall of 2017. By then, there will be plenty of big mouthed predators to hopefully keep them in line. You most likely will need to work on them yourself through angling, netting, traps, etc... Larger fyke/hoop traps are very effective at capturing fish. You can pull the net in, remove those fish species and sizes you want and return other species and sizes back to the pond. This trap will also allow you to keep track of growth progress you are making with all your species. They aren't cheap, but 1 or 2 would be well worth the investment for what you are trying to do.

A few last points. First, this is all highly experimental! So keep that in mind. There is high risk for failure. It will require good documentation, record keeping, and lots of watching and most likely some tweaking... Second, find fish can be a challenge. Some species are easier to find than others. Finding the species, type and size of a certain fish can be tough. Call hatcheries, get order made early and let them know what you need and when you need it so you can make sure those fish will be available. Sometimes, it's just not possible and you'll have to adapt.

If you can located banded killifish, bluntnose minnows or satinfish shiners, these would also be excellent additions for your forage fish community and I would strongly recommend them. However, they are rarely available commercially. If you can find them, grab them though.

Be patient and I think you can produce an unusual but high quality fishery if all the card fall right!

Get Bill's SMB PB articles. You have a good start.

Look at these and read all the threads/links.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=250738&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post114200

Did I mention my hydroponic project I have going that I need BT for??

CJB Thanks again for the advise and taking time to put together such a detailed and descriptive plan for me. I will definitely put a hold on the woody and get more rocky going. Also if you think the bluegill is really going to be an issue I have a 3/4 acre pond behind my house that is almost finished. I can put the bluegill in that pond For the kids to have fun with while the other is evolving. I can throw in some lmb for pop control and call it good....Its main goal is water for the deer and turkey but it ended up being a little bigger and deeper than we thought. Should be around ten feet deep. I went to local coop and the suggested putting praire hay (500lbs) in the shallow end of my pond to clear the water of suspended clay...Have you heard of this????

Hey Ewest thanks for the smb info.... Great info and ideas that I will begin implementing this weekend...Appreciate the help.

Welcome. Keep us posted on what you do and how it works. Keep asking questions as you go.

500 pounds of hay is going to make a heckuva mess. I've heard of doing that to settle clay but never known of anybody that did it.

I think I'd pass on that idea.

I would utilize the 3/4 acre pond as your BG pond. You can use LMB in it to control the BG and if fed, you could grow some nice ones. Over stock the LMB as you want them hungry and under stock the BG.

If you are confident, you can move male only BG to your bigger pond to add to the diversity while not causing any management issues.