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I'm in the pond planning process now and want to do it right from the beginning.

My plan is to have SMB, WE, YP, PS, BCP, as my fish choices.

I know that small mouth bass and walleye will not keep sunfish and black crappie under control in most applications. My question is if I build a pond with little structure would that be better then lots of structure. I have access to lots of field stone and planned to line the pond edges with rock as much as possible anyway. I also was planning to add in some type of lily pad as I know that's what the wife would want. (I have been reading on making sure they are the hy-bred types to control the spread.) Is this enough structure already or should I be planning grade breaks and rock piles in the middle of the pond. The pond is planned to be 1-1.3 acres in a rectangle like bowl shape. 1/4 slopes or 1/3 if that would be better. I'm also pondering a shallow wading, swimming entry point.

My goals would be healthy 15"+ small mouth 15-18" walleye and harvestable sizes of pumpkin seeds (5-8") and black crappies (7-10"). The yellow perch would be more for a forage base then anything else but a few (8-10") would be great. Is this plan workable or am I dreaming. I am open to changing my plans but the one thing I really want is multiple species of fish. I love reading the on "The Mutt Pond" updates.

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This is a workable plan. Create habitat specific for each size class of each species of fish in your plan. For smallmouth, if you want them to spawn (maybe so, maybe no), design and build spawning beds similar to what you'd see in nature. Gravel beds, rounded, with field stone partially surrounding, a log adjacent maybe.
As you design the habitat, think about the small fish and provide some escape structure. If 10-15% of your pond has habitat, you'll see pretty good results (assuming your water is healthy). I'd also provide something in deeper water, vertical like some standing timber to allow black crappie to congregate during winter and summer.
I'd also design some thoughtful deep water habitat so you can ice fish. Design that deep water stuff as fish attractors, but make sure you don't get hung up...maybe PVC or something similar. We have several advertisers who sell artificial structure that doesn't degrade.


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I agree with Bob !!!

I would also add FH to start.

Here are 2 good threads to answer your questions with pics.

Archive on structure -- http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Archive on SMB beds -- http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626

Last edited by ewest; 04/26/17 11:45 AM.















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Thanks for the responses. I do plan on having natural reproduction of all my species if possible (Not thinking I'll get Walleye to reproduce. Just hoping!!!!) I was going to add in some small mouth bass bedding areas. I was also planning on Fatheads (FHM)and I know I have some creek chubs of some kind in my planned location already for bait.

I was more concerned with adding to much open water structure where my pumpkin seeds and crappie would be able to hide from my lesser forms of predator fish. At least for lesser predators for controlling sunfish and crappies.

So as another question. would I be better to add another minnow type instead of perch to the pond or both. I'm thinking some kind of shiner minnow.

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I like it! Sounds like it will be fun pond to fish.

Since you have lots of field stone, IMO I would consider making a few rock piles and stocking some crawfish very early in the stocking plan. They are preferred forage for YP, SMB and WE. I'd build the piles long and skinny as opposed to big round piles. That shape will provide more area for craws and help assure you have good water exchange throughout the pile. IMO big round piles of boulders can have dead spots in the interior where water is stagnant and uninhabitable.

IMO a good shiner species would be a great addition. I would identify the species you're thinking of adding and run it by the pros before stocking.

When do you think you will be building the pond?

Just my 1 cent....

Bill D.


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Know each species traits and place in the system first. YP are both a predator and a prey species so replacing them with a minnow is not an equal comparison. I would not leave out the YP but might add another minnow. My guess is you will be short on forage. Lets hope that drives all species to prey on young BCP. PS , YP ,BCP and to a lesser extent SMB can all overpopulate and stunt. I have not heard of WE doing so but it could be possible. The biggest risk of that happening is BCP by a wide margin then PS.

Craws are a good addition
















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Okay the vote so far is 3 yea to 1 nay (me). Standard crappie will be the problematic fish in your plan. I would like for you to try your planned combination to see what results you will get and then report those results here so all can learn. I fear the predators are not adequate to control BCP reproduction. I fear and think a 1-1.3 ac pond will be difficult to adjust an overabundant fish species. If you want to proceed with BCP try with all your power and then use more trying to use hybrid crappie. Use hybrids even if you have to drive 8hr or more one way to get them. Member TJ here can advise with Hyb BCP.

IMO your planned fish predators of WE, SMB and YP are not naturally adapted to deal with or control small crappie(1"-4"). It is a behavior thing. IF BCP spawn in your pond they will overpower it with too many small crappie that will stunt or grow very slowly. In that case be prepared to remove a few thousand 3"-5" crappie per yr. If you stock any crappie I highly suggest that you stock them after the fishery is established (yrs 3-5) so the established predators, as planned, can help keep BCP controlled.

IMO the WE & SMB can function pretty good with PS and YP. If you plan to have minnows-shiners long term, plan to have a significant amount of dense cover as refugia to keep the 'minnow' broodstock around until the next spawning season. A few or several medium to large patches of hybrid lilies could serve as that necessary habitat.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/26/17 03:13 PM.

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Bill I did not vote that it will work. See the crappie thread. I think the plan will have problems with crappie when they have a large spawn. Even LMB often can't control crappie. It has worked in a few ponds but most end up a mess. I would leave them out of the plan.

Last edited by ewest; 04/26/17 08:59 PM.















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I went with ok on the BCP because it is a far North pond. I read something some time back that Hicklings Fish Farm wrote that YP are more likely to over populate than BCP in Northern ponds. I THINK it was in the recommendation for LMB ponds though. Is there a difference in location when it comes to BCP tendency to over populate? I also considered that there would be multiple predators with BCP, SMB, YP and WE all feeding on the BCP spawn.

Last edited by Bill D.; 04/26/17 09:27 PM.

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Again, Thank you all for the comments.

I am not sure on a stocking rate of my pond so a little help on that would be great!!!

As the BCP is concerned, My plan was to start with a good base of the other species of fish and then if all is going well add them in. I was thinking of 10 to 15 4-5" fish. I was just looking to keep the pond stocked with lots of variety.

I was also thinking I could add in 1 or 2 single sex Northern pike or LMB to help control the more rounded bodies of the PS and BCP. Doing this would again get me to one of my goals of having more species of fish with out the worry of another over population problem.

My thought on this thread was if I get to the point of having crappies in the pond am I better off with less structure. I read some of the threads and watched some videos and I'm at the conclusion that the fish need structure for general health and happiness in life. It makes sense as all animals get bored walking around in circles in a pen. They eventually start seeking out things to break or play with.

So my plan will be to put in some hy-bred lilies to help with structure and appearance of the pond. A grade break in the bottom somewhere, and a few longer thinner rock piles in various levels of water. I also have endless access to trees and stumps so I'll place a few along with the rocks for more vertical structure. I also loved the variety of things people have used for structure in those pictures. One thing was milk grates. I would think they would be great for the minnow populations.

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My BCP have been in the pond for almost 3 years and I'm thinking they have spawned only once. I have yet to catch a small one < 8" . I have more trouble with LMB than crappie. This may not be the norm but that's what is happening in my pond. I guess it's like they say It Depends

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Crappie are notoriously unpredictable; use them at your own risk. You have been provided advice based on experience, but there are no absolutes. Every pond is different. Please keep us updated on the pond's progress. IMO on a percentage basis, the NPike will eat more smaller bass & perch than crappie. Pike are selective predators. Pumpkinseeds will be a variable in the fishery. The more fish species present the more complex the food web and management becomes. With your current planned species IMO you will have a hard time maintaining minnows(true Minnows/shiners) for the long term without one of the nonpredators(panfish) becoming overabundant.

""...conclusion that the fish need structure for general health and happiness in life. It makes sense as all animals get bored walking around in circles in a pen. They eventually start seeking out things to break or play with."" I'm not so sure this is true for animals. One has to be careful to not apply human emotion onto animals (anthropomorphism).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

I agree that structure and habitat aid in the survival and thriving of animals but not so much for "general health and happiness".
The size of the brain MAY and the advanced evolutionary development of the animal have an effect on "emotion" or mental state in animals. Monkeys show more "emotion" than for example insects or fish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/27/17 10:18 AM.

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While we all tend to apply human emotions (we are human) to other animals that does not make it sound scientifically. Truth is we are only now starting to look at how other animals brains work. Many pelagic fish species are fine with no structure. Each type of structure has a purpose , reproduction , safety , feeding , shade , fishing , highways and more. Types of structure are a group of tools to be used for a purpose.

My 2 cents on the plan is to leave out the BCP and go with the rest that you started with (plus FH and craws) until the results are clearer. I would start with the FH and let them establish first. Then add YP and PS and SMB adding larger WE as available.

Last edited by ewest; 04/28/17 10:23 AM.















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ewest IMO has a good plan for proceeding. Some of ewest's cutting edge articles in PBoss magazine have discussed using hyb striped bass(HSB) with crappie. I also wrote an article in PBoss mag about stocking single sex crappie in ponds. The article also discussed HSB as a good predator for managing crappie. PBoss Mag, Mar-Apr 2013: CRAPPIE AS A BONUS, PLUS GROWTH RATES AND SEXING. Bill Cody explores single sex crappies for small ponds. How to have some big crappies without problems of reproduction, how to recognize males and females, choosing white versus blacks and numerous facts about crappie biology to help you grow big crappies.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/28/17 10:29 AM.

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