Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat tresspasers and theives

after all the talk here on people getting in to your ponds mine were hit 5 diffrent times now. i am in the atoka area (ponds that is) and they only have 5-6 sheriff deputys total so response and action is slow. this last time over the 4th i was left with dead fish trash and items stolen. we found enough evidence to figure that at least 40 - 50 cc,s were taken and every bass they hooked from the carcases we found and lots of bg cut up. found lantern bulbs beer cans and a tackle box that they believe finger prints can be lifted from. from items stolen and all the fish taken about 8,000.00 plus in damage , they also stole 3 no trespass signs from gate and fence. can not what to catch these people and get them either alone or in court.

trapper :

Sorry to hear about your loss. It makes me angry and I know how you feel. We had a boat stolen last week from a very remote location. They had to go to a lot of trouble to steal a $100 used boat. You may want to check into ML's hidden bird house camera on a post in the lake. ewest

Thanks its a shame there is no respect any more for others property. We feel this is being done by people in a 2 mile range, but the finger prints should help a lot to catch them.... if we are lucky. if i catch them it may be a while before i call in that i have them.

Trapper, my condolences to you. It really makes you want to kill someone, doesn't it?

Just last week, I noticed some empty worm bait containers in a more remote section of my pond. This is near where my some of my new 4 & 5 pound smallmouth have been hanging out. These are beautiful trophy fish and it simply kills me to know that someone is fishing them out.

Several years back, I found some dead fish that were all cut up (heads cut off, etc.). I promptly went to the sporting goods store and bought a S&W 9MM with a few hundred rounds, and shot all of the rounds at a few targets and left the targets and a lot of the shell casings around. As you mentioned, everyone in a 1 mile radius could hear the shots. I didn't have problems for a few years after that.

Time to buy a few hundred more rounds.

When fish are just destroyed like that, I usually think that is from kids as opposed to adults, but that's just a hunch.

I just got my package from US Calvary today which are camo nets that I can cover up and hide my car with. This is because my next trips to my pond are going to be stake-outs.

I spoke to the PA Fish Commission and the State Police. The Fish Commission said that they would bust anyone I caught if they didn't have a fishing license and/or if any fish they took were outside of legal size or species limits.

The state police said the best thing I could do was to get video with a time & date stamp.

My poachers are coming in on quads. I asked the police if I could disable the quads. While the officer could not give me any legal advice on that one, he said that if it was his property, he'd chain the quad to a tree. I'm just going to pull the spark plug.

Regarding the Trail Cameras, I've hesitated to buy one yet only because if the trespasser sees it, it'll get ripped off.

Happy hunting.

Sunil,
Re. the cameras, I believe he put one on a post out in the pond disguised/hidden in a bird house.
Perhaps some signs indicating hidden cameras & simply a piece of glass attached inside the entrance hole in the bird house might help?

Ric, you're right about what Meadowlark did.

I'm having a tough time driving any posts or stakes into my pond bottom.

Tomorrow, while on stealth stake-out duty, I'll be doing some reposting of no trespass signs.

I'm also going to hang an old coffee can near where these mother f-----s were fishing. The coffee can will have some fresh .45 cal holes in it.

I may also post a message-specific sign there.

Good luck, be smart, but be careful!

I tried the camera in my woods to catch deer poachers. I put it inside a hollow tree with only the lense showing. Sure enough the camera was stolen at the same time my tree stand was. They must have come at low light to have seen the auto flash inside the tree. That was the only way possible to see it. The same S*B took a doe (a very good producer) and slipped through our fingers. Moral of the story. Be sure to get a cam that you can turn the flash off (they will still take good daylight pictures). Because if a trespasser knows he has his picture taken he will do what ever is neccasary to get the cam. Then you are out that much more money. My home overlooks my pond so it only took a few busted poachers to keep them out of it. All I had to do was call the neighbor and have him block my drive while I called the police. My drive is one car only and no other possible way out. They didn't even know they were busted until it was to late. There are alot of good ideas here. I wish you luck and am sorry to here of the misfortune you are now forced to deal with.

I am sorry to hear that everyone is having problems with trespassers. It pisses me off when we all spend a lot of time and money keeping our ponds up for our and our friends to enjoy while some a--hole goes and leaves trash behind, tears up gates, fences, cuts off locks and/or chains. It's worse when you don't live near the area and can't keep an eye out for someone that's not supposed to be there. I don't know if anybody else has this problem like I do but where I have the most problems with trespassers, there is no law enforcement. They have trained deputies, but they don't do a damn thing they're supposed to do. The "sheriff" prides his deputies on drug busts(while the paper shows the sheriff escorting prisoners to jail) and crashing parties. They were "too busy" to come file a report on my boat that was stolen. I even told them where it could be found and all they asked was "can you not go get it?" I told them I could but they would end up coming to arrest me. I can't wait for the right time to go check around one morning during the middle of a week when they expect me to be at work and I would be very tempted to try some new reloads for my 7mm magnum and get some target practice.

I was constantly harrased by Local Tresspassers a few years back (I was an out of state land owner). They shot deer out of our tree stands, then tried to burn them down. Local officials removed my driveway approac, etc., so it was evident some of them were also involved. They tore down my "No Tresspassing Signs" at ground level and beat them off the trees when I put them higher with a ladder.
I finally tied a bunch of "Cemetery Flowers" in each tree that had a No Tresspassing sign. "Cemetery Flowers" being the cheap plastic flowers available in most discount stores. Talk in the local pub was that I was apparently a "Nut Case" and may very likely do them "Great Bodily Harm" if I found out who they were. The tresspassing stopped. These punks don't care about the law, but they don't want to be hurt or worse, by some "Wacko".
I've used the "Cemetery Flower" approach twice in 40 years. Worked both times.
First time I've shared my "Nut Case" approach - I believe effective if not over used.
There's plenty of "Wackos" out there, so why not one more (Wife doesn't like this approach).
clearwell

Welcome to the forum Clearwell!
Sounds like a good idea to me & in my case it's not such a strectch!

Robinson, so sorry to hear that. If you can, make an example of some scumbag as early as you can, and as consistently as you need to for the long haul.

Speaking as someone who does not live at my pond, I'm still shocked to hear about the trespassing at ponds with resident owners.

Clearwell, please elaborate on this cemetary flower thing. I'm not sure I understand. What does it signify.

I'm for anything that works while not creating exposure to liability.

I'm fortunate to live on the site of my two ponds so I don't have the trespassing problems seen by others. A number of options have been discussed in this thread and others. For all you absentee owners, would it be possible to find a responsible "local" to police your property in exchange for fishing/hunting/trapping/recreational priviledges? Of course, this could open the door to liability issues which, unfortunately, are a concern for all property owners, especially in todays climate to sue first.

Sunil, I think Clearwell's flower display is an attempt to instill in a trespasser's mind that this is where he/she may end up if caught. In addition to the flowers, get yourself one of those science classroom skeletons and position it by the pond with a sign stating your dislike for trespassers.

Russ

Sunil:

You might want to keep a tire valve tool with you for Quad disabling - it's small, leaves no marks, and does no permanent damage (just 4 flat tires).

All:

When you look at the methods which seem to successfully eliminate presistant trespassers [gunfire, implied threats of death or "Great Bodily Harm" (I'd have loved hearing that back about me - I'm "that Nazi down on Route 37"), heavy law enforcment presence] it's both sad and clear that we're dealing with people who consider themselves above or outside the law. It's sad you should have to do more than have a closed gate and a "No Trespassing" sign to prevent folks from doing this, but those who still do it are the ones who don't care about law or private property - only significant threats to themselves.

I think a large No Trespassing sign with several notches in it placed above an equal number of what were apparently graves, plus one dug-but-unfilled one, would (sadly) be effective.

WRT "local officials":
In addition to our 43 acres, we also make hay on about 12 acres next door. The gentleman who owns this land is VERY worried about liability from trespassers; about 15 years ago he (wrongly) accused my wife of riding her horse on his land (it was some other horsey people from nearby). Since then I have spent a little time trying to keep him calm by putting up "NT" signs for him and blocking access points that lead on to his land from the trespassers' direction (horse riders will apparently not dismount and remove several small trees blocking their intended path in order to trespass).

The only one I have seen trespassing on his property in the last 10 years is an official from the County Engineer's office who was a big HS football star and may still think the world belongs to him (TX residents are probably aware of this phenomenom). He is also the one who "called the cops on the cops" and embarassingly reported my wife's Sheriff's Deputy nephew and his partner, who shoot 200-300 rounds every other week or so on my range, to the local Sheriff's department. (I think my/their frequent and/or heavy gunfire is the reason I do not have trespassers from the subdivision on the other side of us - some of those people are very worried about me. I have offered to have Machine Gun shoots again if they think it would help.) Last Spring he told my wife he was "very upset" that we had completed the line fence on the side of our property along to the land next door we make hay on. (To me, that was a blunt admission of trespassing on us as well as next door.) Nerve!!!

Sorry to rant. As you know, this is a subject that gets your hackles up until you just have to vent.

The problem with trespassers and poaching is not only limited in the USA, have the same problems in Thailand. To steal a man's cow is a lynching offense, to still a man's fish is almost a joke. Shame it has to be that way!

We all love what we do and particularly those of us that monitor and communicate on this site. Our fish are our pride and joy, though some may not depend on the ponds for critcal substenance it's our property and raised on our land, our creations at our own expense.

The worst thing that we can do when we notice trespassing and poaching is nothing, if the hole in the fence is not repaired...than it is assumed that we are not concerned about the property.

Don't know so much about the States and ponds, but in Thailand the police usually only get involved when money in their favor is concerned. Most of my trespassing/poaching is a nightime occurrence, if I'm on the road and the wife notices a problem we pay a neighbor to patrol, a couple of dollars a night there, sure considerable more in the USA. For folks that have a remote pond it is for sure more difficult and glad to see so many different ways to counter the theft posted, gives us all more ideas

Since my poaching comes at night, one thing I am grateful for is the fact that PB (peacock bass) are inactive at night, may lose a snakehead, catfish or two...but no major loss as they are part of the food chain.

Sometimes...sure wish I had a couple of large gators!

Don,
Your remark about the gators got me to thinking.
I know of a pond "guarded" by a large male black swan. He thinks it is HIS pond & will charge & flog anyone or anything! You definately don't want to run into him at night!! My brother is Forman at the farm where the swans pond is & he has told some ROFL stories about others encounters with that swan!
I've seen this behavior in white swans also esp. in the spring.
The only problem I can see would be training him to accept those you don't mind fishing. Esp. kids.

I do have a caretaker that lives about 1.5 miles away. He keeps an eye on things as best as he can, and also helps me with projects.

The violaters seem to know his schedule, so he started mixing things up about when he "patrols."

One comment that needs reinforced is that you have to stay the course in patroling and busting people. The thing that sucks is that there's always a new crop of trespassers as kids get older and such.

sunil - The crude message of the "Cemetery Flowers" is that if you continue to tresspass on my property, you may end up in a location where the "Cemetery Flowers" are needed. Also sends a message that you are not "Normal", that you are some type of Wacko, definetly unstable and may do something that severely injures anyone you catch. The last thing these Punks want is to be hurt - they laugh at the law, but not at being clubbed into the ground and left there to crawl home - talk of tough treatment gets around the bars quickly.
Not sure of the laws in your state, but be prepared to use deadly force if required. You can't shoot anyone or brandish a firearm to threaten them for tresspassing, but if they threaten you with any type weapon be prepared to defend yourself. We had a case where a cabin owner caught two men burglarizing his cabin and they severley beat him on his own property. If he had been armed he could have defended himself.
Frequently the best course of action is to retreat and not confront them, unless you are mentally prepared to follow through.
I'll stop rambling, and close by saying taking someones life for tresspassing or stealing your property, may very well result in you being arrested and brought to trial.
- Strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment
- Life Member VFW
- Life Member NRA
- Member American Legion
clearwell

You forgot the He-Man Gun-Totin' Pondmeisters' Club.
I suspect many of us are members. I am.

Hey Theo! I'm a member & didn't even know it!

clearwell,

I like your thinking.

Only trouble I see is that the rednecks in East Texas would probably pick the flowers as a present for their girl friends.

It's a vexing problem, frustrating to the extreme....member of HMGTPC.

HMGTPC member #5 reporting.

My stake-out mission from yesterday turned out well from an information perspective. I know where they're coming in w/ quads in order to get to the remote area of my pond.

It also tells me that they won't have any warning of my arrival to my pond if they're already there.

Clearwell, I understand what you're saying about the flowers. I also understand your message about being prepared for even the worst scenario.

Luckily, being sane, I will assess any situation and be able to make a good decision about confrontation if necessary. I believe by what I've been told by PA State Police is that I can't restrain anyone. While I do plan on restraining their mode of transportation, it's a risk that I'm willing to take. I will also have taken pictures or video for proof.

While I'm member #5 of the HMGTPC, if I let it get to that ultimate last resort of having to protect myself, then I've failed.

The truth is that liability is the key. If I have to get to the last resort, I will have put myself, my family, my property, etc. at unnecessary risk.

Sunil,

Can you put some heavy duty cables in front of the path they take with the quads? Wrap the cables around stout trees and bolt the ends of the cables? Put flags on them so they can be easily seen so there someone doesn't get hurt, but it would seem if they are heavy duty enough they couldn't cut them.

Not to change the topic but I do have a sort of funny story to tell. I fished a very remote pond several years back that I had indirect permission to fish. I was also renting as I was in the process of building a house at a different location. Anyway I was still doing taxidermy with lots of carcasses of big fish left over from skinning. I put those carcasses in the landlord's dumpster the first time only to be severely chewed out for the smell.

Therefore I had a dilemna. What to do with the carcasses? I decided that I would dump them in a pile in the woods near the remote pond. Afterall the racoons, possums etc. would eat them and they what they didn't eat would decompose right? And it was so remote that no one would have to put up with the odor.

Funny thing after leaving a pile of carcasses of bass to 7 lbs. huge crappies and bluegills the pond access was suddenly chained off and no one was granted permission anymore. It had been sold off to a hunting club.

I can't help thinking that wasn't a coincidence. I'll bet the owner went back and and assumed all those fish carcasses came from fish out of his pond and he was severely pissed! I would be too!