Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,902
Posts557,128
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,422
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,112
Who's Online Now
16 members (jpsdad, rjackson, esshup, Boondoggle, jbird5986, Sunil, Rick O, Angler8689, anthropic, Justin W, Bing, bstone261, DenaTroyer, Theo Gallus, Shorthose, Freg), 959 guests, and 191 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#496110 09/10/18 08:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
So we found a leak in our pond that we didn't know we really had. When we built the pond it was super dry and we never need to pump any water even digging the pond 16 feet deep. It was so dry that at some point we dug through an old 4" clay drain tile.

After some interesting things happening we managed to find the drain tile that was leaking our pond down. A week ago we dug up 25 feet of this tile and plugged it with a large rubber plug on both ends. I hand dug back after we had the tile open to a full tile and placed the plug in the next tile with undisturbed dirt around it.

Three days later the water pressure is now working its way up through the joints in the clay tile to the surface of the pond bank. This is about 30 feet from the pond with about 3 feet of elevation on the surface and the tile is 4 feet down. The water is pushing out on the surface at the level of the pond at full pool.

The leak is now at about half the rate is was. I don't think the leak is going to slow down even with a couple years of settling. The pressure has found a way out and will keep using it.

My thoughts are to dig through the tile in two more spots. Right on top of the pond bank and dig through the tile about 20 feet from the top of the pond bank. Digging after we let the pond go down as low as it can go naturally before we try digging. My thoughts are that the hole will fill to the ponds level as soon as we break through the tile. Digging through the tile at 20 feet down stream to make an outlet for the water letting the level drop after dropping in heavy clay as a plug.

The thoughts are that we cut through and plug the tile with two clay plugs with the hope these will help slow or stop the leak farther down stream allowing us to have our full pool level were we would like.

Anyone have any other thoughts? I would plug the tile with a can of spray foam but the water pressure will not allow me to. Is my thoughts on digging two more holes and packing them to plug the tile sound? If I can plug the tile next to the pond with another rubber stopped I will too but I do not want to make the hole to big next to the pond nor get into it.

Cheers Don.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #496298 09/13/18 10:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
No one has any thoughts on this?

The leak now has us down about 12"s from our over flow and has slowed down dramatically.

Would punching two holes in the tile closer to the pond be more of a problem then good?


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #496299 09/13/18 10:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
This sounds like a complicated situation. I am not sure exactly how tiles work. Pics might help. If you could stop the leak temporally could you fix the problem without digging? If so would a balloon plug work to temporarily stop the flow. Is it to big to used bentonite?
















DonoBBD #496301 09/13/18 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
I agree about a picture of some sort. How about a pencil sketch maybe. I tried to think about your situation, but gave up because I am not familiar with tiles and did not want to steer you wrong. The only thing I can add at this point is... around here clay tile is OLD which means it's failed, failing, or going to fail any moment. I think they stopped using clay tile around her in the 60's. I would not be surprised if every clay joint is a leaker especially in a flooded situation like I image you are in.


Fish on!,
Noel
DonoBBD #496312 09/13/18 12:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
N
Offline
N
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
I have no idea if this could work. But could you rent a concrete pump and pump the tile full? May still leak some but I would think muck would seal it up someday.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
http://www.pondboss.com/news/videos/why-subscribe-to-pond-boss
DonoBBD #496314 09/13/18 01:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Likes: 5
R
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
R
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Likes: 5
I have helped my FIL install new drain tile (plastic) in farm fields when we have run into old clay tile lines installed in maybe the 1950's. For anyone who is unfamiliar, they are round clay tubes 3-4" in diameter and about 12" long. They were laid end to end in a trench without the ends sealed. This allows water to trickle from the soil into the tubes and be carried out of the field. Thus turning a wet spot into a place corn/beans/etc could be grown. Certainly not what one wants near his pond.

So you could seal the end of one 12" tube, but water would get in 12" further down. It sounds like Dono did the right thing by digging up 25 feet and resealing the trench, but perhaps it was not enough OR there is yet another tile in the area that hasn't been found yet.

Last edited by Redonthehead; 09/13/18 01:08 PM.

[Linked Image]
DonoBBD #496345 09/14/18 07:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
Yes you are correct. I will see if I can put together a picture.

When we built the pond this old clay tile was there but we didn't know. It now runs right through the middle of our pond. The top end is not a problem as it runs water down hill into the pond. The bottom end is the problem. It acts like a drain.

When we took out the 25 feet of tile the 4" was running full. I mean we thought that the end must be wide open in the pond it was running water so well.

Now that the water in the pond is down about 12"s from full pool the pressure is slowing the leak. See we changed the grade so much from where it was with building up the pond banks with heavy clay that the tile could be 8 feet down right next to the pond on top of the pond bank.

I will draw a picture up.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #496524 09/18/18 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
Ok attached is a drawing of our old clay tile leak. So the two dig spots are shown. The one closest to the pond will be about 7-8 feet deep to the tile the other 5-6 feet to the tile.

Thinking of just digging down and cutting through the tile and putting clay right back into the hole with the hope the leak will slow. Currently the tile acts as if it is open to the pond for the amount of water and pressure on it. If the clarity of the pond was better I would try to dive down and find the open end. I expect sealing it there would be the best option but I do not know if we could find the end. It may not be open and could have 18"s of clay on it.

Would dumping in some bentonite with the clay we pack the hole with help on the next two digs or plugs on the tile?

Currently the leak has stopped but I have let the pond leak down to the ground level of the leak so the pressure is so low that it can't leak. I figure its best for the digging in these two spots to have the water as low as we can. Ideally we would like to have our water level up the extra 18"s so plugging this leak would be nice.

Cheers Don.

EDIT: the black mark on the end of the red tile line is the plug that we plugged the tile with and it did work very well. After that we dug up about 20 feet of the old tile as well then packed the trench back in. No wet spots after the plug just above the plug in the pond bank.

Attached Images
Pond tile..jpg
Last edited by DonoBBD; 09/18/18 12:45 PM.

[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #496579 09/19/18 02:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 101
Now I see your situation very well and I follow your logic. I'm not a dirt man, but I think that cutting the tile (and packing in clay) in one place , but wider, might be better than cutting it twice. Either way I bet you'll have good results assuming that there are no unseen paths for water to travel in/through the dam besides the tile. I would also get the trench closest to the pond as closed to the pond as safety will allow. Tile runs may also contain soils that are not clay from the original backfilling, so I would be extra observant of the soils coming out of the trench/es and make sure you go deep enough to get back to good clay.

I don't think adding bentonite can hurt anything, but I don't know much about bentonite.


Fish on!,
Noel
DonoBBD #496590 09/19/18 05:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
N
Offline
N
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
I would think you would need to make your fist or water side trench as close if not in the key way of your dam so water will not go around your new trench. Will need to be very careful so trench dose not fall in and cover you up if you are in the hole filling pipe. There may be no key way if they did not dig down enough to find the pipe in the first place.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
http://www.pondboss.com/news/videos/why-subscribe-to-pond-boss
DonoBBD #496592 09/19/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Dono, the only way to correctly fix tiles is to cut the path off at and in the core of the dam by digging up the tile. It sounds like you have more than one drain tile run in your pond though. You can also dig up the tile section entering the pond and cover with a couple feet of compacted clay on the entry tile



nehunter #496593 09/19/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: nehunter
I would think you would need to make your fist or water side trench as close if not in the key way of your dam so water will not go around your new trench. Will need to be very careful so trench dose not fall in and cover you up if you are in the hole filling pipe. There may be no key way if they did not dig down enough to find the pipe in the first place.


When we dug the pond we built up the banks what is shown is the one bank. I don't intend to go down in the hole just have a mini ex dig through the tile and pack it back in. Digging will be parallel with the shore line at both dig sites.

The built up banks are pure clay we stripped all the top soil off the pond site first then reformed all the clay packing it as we went. The top soil was then bull dozed back on to the banks and site for grass.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.
DonoBBD #497046 10/01/18 07:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
D
DonoBBD Offline OP
OP Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
Likes: 7
Well we cut through the tile in two spots with the surface of the ground above the full pool height. This is with the hopes when we put pressure on that tile the water will not come up to the surface.

The hope is that the tile being cut in two more spots will hold the pressure back and the leak will seal in time.

Question is now that I let the pond leak down as much as we could. When we cut through the tile the hole filled instantly to the ponds water level. Then we had to fill the hole in and pack it just with the tracks of the miniEx.

Should I fill the pond now right after the dig or just leave it for the winter where the water level is?

Thanks Don.


[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]
http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4


7/8th of an acre, Perch only pond, Ontario, Canada.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
cro, HC1968
Recent Posts
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by jpsdad - 03/29/24 08:24 AM
pond experience needed
by esshup - 03/29/24 08:19 AM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Sunil - 03/29/24 07:31 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by RogersTailgate - 03/29/24 05:45 AM
New pond middle TN: establishing food chain?
by Bill Cody - 03/28/24 07:57 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FireIsHot - 03/28/24 07:33 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 06:39 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5