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#263420 06/30/11 08:51 PM
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I've posted pictures of other fish that look like this. Tonight I caught this one -- 22 inches long, and 4 lbs., 7 oz. If it is what I think it is, they are not supposed to get this big. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (VDGIF) says it is rare for them to get to 20 inches. The West Virginia DNR does not even recognize them as a West Virginia fish -- thus I can't claim it as a trophy citation fish!

Last week I caught one that was 16 inches. They have also successfully reproduced in my pond, as I've caught others in the 4-8 inch size range.

So, based on the photos, what do others think this might be?

Thanks,
Ken










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Channel Cat? I catch them that big all the time lol..?


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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Channel cat....that was cought in Murky water...because his skin is so light

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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Channel Cat? I catch them that big all the time lol..?


Thanks. But probably not. The tail doesn't have a sharp fork and this thing has white chin barbels.

And no murky water either. We have about three feet of visibility.


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Ken, better call the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame!

The White catfish has white chin barbells, which distinguish it from other species. There are four pairs of barbels ("whiskers") around the mouth, two on the chin, one at the angle of the mouth, and one behind the nostril.


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Scott
I believe you are right. Ever since Travis brought it to my attention about a year ago I have been fairly certain these are white catfish. I am just surprised at the size they are reaching. They are basically bullheads.
Ken


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I think we have a different understand of bullheads. Mudcats and bullheads are same. I have never seen a bullhead that big.

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I'm currently on my Droid so picture quality is limited... When I get home and take a better look at the fish I'll give my opinion. When white cats get bigger they really get harder to ID, but their head structure is usually what gives them away.

What I can say is the world record white cat is 18 pounds, 14 ounces. I've caught them over 8 pounds myself. However, any white cat over 20" is in my opinion like catching a CC ocer 30" and a fine trophy! When was the first time you stocked CC from Zett's in your pond? That may give you an age on your oldest white cat. I'm guessing your fish have lots of growing left to do...

White cats probably are not native to WV. Although native to the Potomac River, they're a species more commonly found in the tidal reaches not the up stream mountainous upper section of the river. That where yellow bullheads call home. Maybe WV will create a white cat catagory for your fish...?

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What ever it is it is well fed.

So Ken did you throw it back in or did you make Bullhead Burritos?


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Quote:
I think we have a different understand of bullheads. Mudcats and bullheads are same. I have never seen a bullhead that big.

"Mudcat" is one of those terms that unfortunately changes from location to location. It is kind of like our Texas friends catching "perch in their tanks." It took us non-Texans a while to figure out that they were catching bluegill in their ponds.

Back where I grew up, a mudcat was a a flathead catfish, also known as a yellow cat -- which is much different than a yellow bullhead.

From what I know of white catfish, they are the largest of the bullhead family, or the smallest of the "large" catfish family, such as channel cats, blue cats, and flathead cats.

And, then there are things we have around here called "madtoms" which others call stonecats. They small and very feisty, but they make great bass bait. They are the smallest of the catfish.

So, that is why I was looking for a positive identification of this critter.

Quote:

What I can say is the world record white cat is 18 pounds, 14 ounces. I've caught them over 8 pounds myself. However, any white cat over 20" is in my opinion like catching a CC over 30" and a fine trophy! When was the first time you stocked CC from Zett's in your pond? That may give you an age on your oldest white cat. I'm guessing your fish have lots of growing left to do...

White cats probably are not native to WV. Although native to the Potomac River, they're a species more commonly found in the tidal reaches not the up stream mountainous upper section of the river. That where yellow bullheads call home. Maybe WV will create a white cat catagory for your fish...?


I'm guessing these guys came with a batch of 10-12 inch catfish I got from Zetts three years ago. It is possible, but not too probable that they were from some 4-5 inch cats I put in five years ago. I don't think any of them survived the bass and big cats that were in the pond at that time.

As far as I know, the white cats don't come much beyond the tidal waters of the Potomac, so they probably aren't in any of our local tributaries, like the Shenandoah, Cacapon, South Branch, etc.

Even if they did have a category for citation white cats, I wouldn't apply. I've had enough problems with poachers over the years. With Google Maps and county GIS maps, it has gotten way too easy to find properties.



Quote:
What ever it is it is well fed.

So Ken did you throw it back in or did you make Bullhead Burritos?


Jeff -- I did take this one out, kind of reluctantly. He'll go in the smoker later this afternoon. When they start getting to about two-feet and bigger, they really begin to cause problems in the pond. I was hoping they wouldn't get as big as the channel cats. Right now I've got to get several channel cats out that are over 30 inches. I just hope that the white catfish continue to successfully reproduce in the pond.


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Ken, I am not saying 100% that isn't a white cat, but I believe it to be a CC... I'd put my confidence in the 90% plus range.

I say this as the head shape screams CC and not white catfish to me. Also, the anal fin seems too long for it to be a white catfish... Although the number of anal fin rays overlaps between the species, usually they are on the extreme of each end, so counting anal fin rays can be a very solid identification method. White catfish have 22-25 anal fin rays and CC have 24-29 anal fin rays. If you still have the carcass of that catfish, count the anal fin rays and that may seal the deal... Also check the dorsal spine. White cats have very noticeable serrations or ridges, which is common amongst the bullhead family while CC dorsal spines tend to be smooth. Hope this helps!

When you cut that bad boy open, was it full or eggs, pellets or something else?

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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Ken, I am not saying 100% that isn't a white cat, but I believe it to be a CC... I'd put my confidence in the 90% plus range.

I say this as the head shape screams CC and not white catfish to me. Also, the anal fin seems too long for it to be a white catfish... Although the number of anal fin rays overlaps between the species, usually they are on the extreme of each end, so counting anal fin rays can be a very solid identification method. White catfish have 22-25 anal fin rays and CC have 24-29 anal fin rays. If you still have the carcass of that catfish, count the anal fin rays and that may seal the deal... Also check the dorsal spine. White cats have very noticeable serrations or ridges, which is common amongst the bullhead family while CC dorsal spines tend to be smooth. Hope this helps!

When you cut that bad boy open, was it full or eggs, pellets or something else?



Travis, Thanks. I stand corrected, and I apologize to those who said this was a channel catfish. Most of my other channel cats have had very forked tails, and were generally much darker than this fish. I don't remember them having white barbels either.

Based on what you say about the anal fin rays -- this fellow had 29 rays.

As for what was its stomach -- the stomach was about the size of a chicken egg. I don't think it could have held another pellet. The contents of the stomach and intestines were about the consistency as play-doh.



Last edited by catmandoo; 07/01/11 03:25 PM. Reason: Swapped bloody photo for Sunil's sake!

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Glad I could help you with a solid ID. The anal fin count is a near sure fire way to ID white cats, CC and blue cats.

Have you thought about discontinuing the CC stocking altogether and seeing how your white cats progress without competition from the CC? I'd really like to see you grow a monster white cat. Any signs of the white cats taking pellets?

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I'm kind of torn on what to do with the channel catfish. I really like them in the ponds. They are fun to watch at feeding time. They grow well. They aren't too hard to catch. And, best of all they make really fantastic meals. Since I don't expect I'll ever have big bass, these at least give me big fish that don't seem to compete with anything, except for pellets. I still have my big bluegills, which are king! I was supposed to get another twenty-five 10-12 inch CCs two weeks ago, but my schedule hasn't permitted it. Maybe that is good.

Again thanks for your diligence. This was probably a good learning experience for everyone.


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i have white cats in my pond that feed on pellets but they would rather have a piece of bread

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Originally Posted By: buttercat
i have white cats in my pond that feed on pellets but they would rather have a piece of bread


My bluegill, trout, and catfish are easier to catch on a small ball of "yucky white bread" formed around a #2 or #4 hook than they are on almost any other bait. Tonight I was down at the pond using this method to get some bluegill and I hooked one of my big old grass carp. That was certainly and experience for both of us -- it was on my ultralight with 4 lb. test line.

The "white channel cat" shown above was also caught on a piece of yucky white bread last night. Thankfully, I had the leg of my chair tied to the dock with a stringer -- and my pole was caught in the chair while I was getting some minnows when he took the bait. Otherwise I'd have been without my pole and the fish! When I pulled the chair in, my fishing rod came in too, and then I reeled in the fish.


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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Channel Cat? I catch them that big all the time lol..?



Man this guys pretty smart smile


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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Ken, the next time you're in this area, swing on by. I need some pointers on catching CC in my pond. grin wink


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yeah it seems like once you feed fish pellets they associate with bread as the same just take the crust off and smash some of the white bread on a hook and it stays on pretty well


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