Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass Hybrid Warmouth x CN BlueGill

I thought some might find this interesting.

A buddy bought a house that has a small lass than half acre pond on it. I of coarse had to go nose around and see whats up with it. I have sampled it multiple times via cast net and fishing several baits and styles. I have found that the pond only has two types of fish in it and lots of the hybrids between them, aside from some gams and golden top minnows.

I have taken some photos to get thoughts, I am pretty certain they are hybrids but I could be wrong. The first two pics are of the Pure CNBG and Pure WM. Then followed by a side to side comparison of CNBG and Wm next to the assumed hybrid. The last pics are multiple pics of more hybrids.

each fish pictured in this serious is of a different and separate fish...

Interesting looking fish Bobby.

Be interesting to see what the experts and those with warmouth experience say.

Looking at that CNBG and its maturity markings but lack of size looks like the fish population is stunted and aged for the size of the fish. Looks like the BOW is in bad need of an apex predator.

Pretty fish.

you are correct , loads and loads of them. He feeds them now. Mostly for enjoyment. The pond is too small for LMB, IMO... He fishes on the river and has put in some mangrove snapper he harvested.

Will be Intersting to see the results....

I've never seen anything that looks like the large, distinctive scales on the gill plate of the CNBG in the first picture

I am wondering if the F1 CNBG X WM Hybrids are sterile? any one know? I have not seen any that look like they could be back crosses. All the hybrids seem to be pretty consistent looking unless they are a species of sunfish unknown to me.

BG X WM f-1s are not indicated as sterile by Childers. BG X WM F-1s are 70 % males. I would doubt that CNBG X WM F-1s are sterile. Childers notes that in a pond with just BGXWM F-1s and LMB no fry were found upon draining (probably eaten by LMB or parents).He also notes that BGXWM F-1 when stocked alone in a pond produced F-2 offspring.

it seems to have nearly as many Hybrids as it does CNBG with much lower numbers of WM in comparison. I do find some nice sized CNBG and WM mixed in the abundant stunted ones. I have never found any larger hybrids...All about the size of the one on the pics above.

the pond is also loaded with Gams and golden top minnows.

I post an update later down the road after a few predators have in introduced.

Bobby I think I have read in some of ewest's research papers that the likelihood of hybrids increases when one of the species is in low numbers. In other words if there are only a few warmouth it would be more likely for them to cross than if there were plenty of mate choices of their own species.

That is what I am finding in my sediment pond. I only had a few GSF in my 1/10th acre sediment pond that was only supposed to have CNBG and RES but am getting a lot of hybrids with GSF genetics in them.

Have transferred a bunch of them over as fingerlings to my main pond and starting to catch them lately. They seem to be growing well.

snrub your paragraph one is correct. Also when breeding locations are limited and or there is muddy water lepomis crossing is increased.

That fits the description of my sediment pond to a "T". It is "roller paint pan" shaped with fairly steep sides so limited shallow area on each end suitable for bedding. It gets periodic runoff from agricultural land with sediment so is sometimes turbid, and there were only a very few GSF mixed in with CNBG and RES.

I'm getting lots of hybrid fingerling production out of this pond, along with pure RES and CNBG fingerlings.

Some things I noticed.

1. The Warmouth is in much better condition than either the CNBG or the hybrids ... its larger gape must help it to consume small fish that are larger than the CNBG or hybrids can consume.

2. There must be a competitive advantage imbued to the hybrid offspring relative to the CNBG offspring. Perhaps gape. I say this because they are noted to be of equal number with CNBG. Their larger gape might allow an extended period where it can consume fish larval/fry stages thus giving a 0-year growth/survival advantage over CNBG.

3. I estimated the length of the hybrids to be 7.5" and their condition reminds me a lot of crappie in small water level stable lakes. I know for a lot of you with managed water these are really small but people who fish public water find fish like these worth the trouble of harvesting. I suspect little reproduction is now occurring because of the consistent size of the hybrids where most probably belong to a year class. So perhaps egg raids and YOY predation have stalled recruitment.

Even with the growth now stalled, the ultimate size achieved of the hybrids in the absence of predators is worth noting.

Something of interest. Childers was unable to culture BxW in ponds via parental stocking but the laboratory F1s produced abundant F2s in ponds. I wonder if most of the hybrids might be F2's?