Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass Yellow Perch - How far south

What are the opinions of how far south Yellow Perch can survive?

I am considering a SMB/YP mix for my pond in south central virgina. We are only at about 600 feet elevation so we wont get the cooling benefits fromt he mountains.

Summers highs are in the upper 90's with the "average" temperature, including night time of around 78 degrees.

Is it a bridge to far?

There are about a hundred people on this board more qualified to speak on this than me, but I think that perch are tougher than we give them credit for.
Last May I put about 150 small perch in a small grow out pond near my yard. From the middle of June until about October we had nothing but hot weather and no rain. The pond shrunk into a puddle of about 20' in diameter, and I literally kept some water in it with a garden hose. Water temps were between 85 and 90 for much of the summer. Finally in September I drained and seined and moved them to an indoor RAS. I don't think I lost any fish.

YP are native in the coastal rivers and are in all the fishing lakes in your area. How far are you from Aylett?

I am not familiar with the strain of yellow perch that are in the southeast US. If you decide to try the yellow perch (YP) - smallmouth combination be sure to get YP from your vacinity even if you have to collect or catch your broodstock yourself. IMO and experience the smallmouth as a group can tolerate warmer water compared to YP. The older and larger the perch get the less they seem to be able to tolerate water temperatures in the 90's. For the Great Lakes strain of perch that upper size where they become less tolerant to higher temperatures is 12.5"-13". Young YP, similar to what Bullhead mentioned above, are quite tolerant to 90-93F temps and continue to feed well in the warm water; not so true for the northern strain of perch larger than 12". Large perch seem to 'go off feed' in water above 85F. Others have also noted the traditional cool water fish feed less in water where the temperature is near their leathal maximum.

One good thing to trying YP-smallmouth combination in a more southern area is if the fishery does not do very well it can easily be converted to a warmer water fishery just by adding the bluegill LM bass combination. The opposite is not true. It is very difficult to have a truly quality yellow perch fishery with all sizes and good numbers of perch in a strong bluegill bass community. Smallmouth also do not thrive with largemouth bass as the dominant fish. Smallies can survive with largemouths but not thrive. For more good information about smallmouth bass in ponds see the article "Talking Points: Smallmouth Bass " by Dr. Dave Willis & Bill Cody in Jan-Feb 2013 Pond Boss magazine.

Anyone that wants to see some of the YP that grows in SE. Va., go to big bluegill.com and check out the posts by Daniel Salvitti. Lake Prince will get to the mid-90 nearly every year. The best time to catch the big ones is now. If you go for numbers,it is better to fish when the BG are nesting.

Comments by 'kenc' above also indicate that even with the SE VA yellow perch they are most active, feeding and growing best when the water is cooler and then less active and bite less in warmest water temperatures.

Mike, good depth in the pond is a key IMO, too. Access to cooler water in the Summer will be provided with adequate depth, say 14'+. YP and other cool water fish will hover around that thermocline. If one aerates, I'm not certain if that's a benefit for cool water species or not. Thats a Cody issue to address.

PS: I love that you're considering YP in NC!

TJ, there is very little water here that is 10'deep but the YP hang on some way. I have fished shallow water ponds that is not stream fed but have good numbers of YP.

I have noticed that in my pond as well. I have also noticed a small but noticeable decrease in the WR's of my SMB this fall as the temps got colder, and and small increase in the WRs of my YP. I suspect that my YP have gained a slight competitive advantage over the SMB as water temperatures dropped below the 50 degree mark. I had thousands of 1" GSH everywhere in the pond this fall and I suspect my YP have been better at utilizing them than my SMB.

The yellow perch in VA that are referred to here are probably a different strain of perch that are more tolerant to warmer water which is why NCMike should make sure that the perch he gets are a strain adapted to his area. These fish will have a warm tolerant physiology and work best in his pond. Based on what Kenc says one should be able to grow large perch to 12"-13" maybe 14" in ponds located in North Carolina. Consider feeding high protein pellets to YP and they will grow fast to large sizes of 10"-13".

When we were developing the standard weight equation for yellow perch, I tried hard to get good geographic representation from throughout the yellow perch range. We got three data sets submitted from Georgia! So, the yellow perch range a little farther south along the east coast than they do in the central part of the country.

Hey Dave, is the YP that lives and migrates up the coastal rivers a different bird then the ones that live in fresh water competely.

According to researchers, there are three strains of YP. Northern, Southern and Great Plains. Some studies were done by the NCRAC. You can google that.

There were a couple fingerling producers in NC in 2011 based on a document by Tom Lasordo. Check with your gubment for current status.

I was in the Goldsboro area about 6 years ago. A local news station was featuring a new start up farm for Prawns and YP. Owner was pretty excited and was making a few bucks to boot! It was east of Goldsboro. I tried to find it one Saturday, but some of the roads aren't marked very well

I read some stuff a while ago, and if IIRC, the Southern strain will grow much faster and larger than our Northern counterparts. Unless, of course, you have the specialty Indiana and Nebraska strains

You can google this to verify or for more info. Right now I have a google, and, PDF headache

What else can you ask for on a Friday evening?

Hi Ken!! I just don't know about that "bird." :-) I was not aware that perch used the coastal rivers like that! Not surprised, of course, giving that we always say "never say never." :-)

I went back and looked, and we actually had four population samples from Georgia. I think all were reservoirs, but not 100% sure. The four were: Lake Burton, Lake Rabun, Lake Seed, and Lake Tugaloo.

FWIW, those are mountain lakes, Dr. Dave. Very cool and clear (and deep) in comparison to ponds and lakes in the rest of Georgia.

They live in the coastal rivers and come up the river as far as the fall line to nest. If you hit a good spot you can catch a great many as they are no limits on them. They migrate first and then the white perch. Both are great eating. The YP should come up the river in the next few days. If it floods in their time frame I will have a ton of them in my back pond.

The Southern (Carolina), Great Lakes, Nebraska, and a few other strains of yellow perch were used by the Ohio State South aquaculture facility at Piketon Ohio to hybridize the selected yellow perch strains to produce a "super perch". The study is basically over and offspring were distributed to selected farms to monitor growth rates. I don't think the full report has been published yet. A summary of the study is noted below. A couple of the growers told me they did not see a large difference, but did see some growth benefits in growth rates of the hybrids compared to the well developed domesticated Great Lakes strain of yellow perch.

Some research reports about the perch hybridization are below:

The Ohio Genetic Improvement of Farmed-fish Traits (O�GIFT) Program started in 2004, and is experiencing significant progress: Eight strains of YP were obtained from eight states and stock evaluations in genetic variation and growth have been completed. Approximately 2,000 genetically superior broodfish were selected as the base breeding population for the long-term selective breeding program. To date, eight improved lines of perch have been produced and distributed to farmers and a research facility for initial commercial-scale tests. Current research data show that the improved lines grow 18.3%-39.8% faster than unimproved fish. Forty-five new microsatellite markers have been developed, and a method for parentage analysis of YP has been established.

Brown, B., H. P Wang, L. Li, G. Chandler, and G.K. Wallat. 2007. Yellow perch strain evaluation I. Genetic variance of six broodstock populations. Aquaculture 271:142-151.

Reddish, J. M, Zapata, I., Wang, H. P., Wick, M. 2012. Comparative proteomics of regional strains of yellow perch (Perca flavescens) Aquaculture (in review).

Wang, H.P, H. Yao, G.K. Wallat, Paul O�Bryant, and D. Rapp. 2012. From markers to markets: Genetic improvement of yellow perch through commercial-scale marker-aided cohort selection for growth. Aquaculture (in revising).

Ken, I am not sure there is a scientifically recognized subspecies in our migratory coastal YP. However, there is no doubt in my mind there is significant genetic adaptations compared to perch found in the Midwest, etc. I doubt a YP brought to the coastal rivers of VA would do very well. Find any deep hole in a larger coastal river and its tributaries from mid February into early March and drop a shiner in it and you will find all the buck perch you can catch. If you are lucky, you may get into a school of roe perch.

Travis, when you are around KJ on 600 and 360 and look at some of the pictures where the minnows are. Some of the YP look to be 2lbs. plus there are some pic. of huge bucks.

Thanks, dlyle! I was hoping someone would recognize the lakes.

Ken, I knew about the white perch but not the yellow perch in the rivers. Thanks.

Glad to be of assistance in the furteranceof your education Dave. My college professors would be so proud. Oh, I forgot they all got old and died.

CJBS - Are those migratory coastal YP coming upstream from the coastal waters and living in the ocean salt water? Have you ever caught any of these YP? Do they tend to run bigger than the landlocked YP? If bigger it is probably due to more food and less competition when in the coastal waters? Why wouldn't these YP survive in an inland pond?